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Replace Thomas and BAker
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BRIGGS
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12/25/2017  5:10 PM
Give Beasley the starting 3 and play Dotson instead of Baker
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Jmpasq
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12/25/2017  7:19 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Give Beasley the starting 3 and play Dotson instead of Baker

it wont matter the replacements aren't good enough either

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reub
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12/25/2017  9:29 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Give Beasley the starting 3 and play Dotson instead of Baker


Beasley sucks at the three.
EnySpree
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12/25/2017  10:07 PM
Thomas and Baker should never play a game for us unless we needed a defensive stop or series.

Beasley can't play big minutes one night and then not play the next. Thomas isn't so much better defensively to bench Beas.

We need to get better. We can't win relying on any of these guys. We really need to make a lateral trade to upgrade our talent

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reub
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12/25/2017  10:10 PM
EnySpree wrote:Thomas and Baker should never play a game for us unless we needed a defensive stop or series.

Beasley can't play big minutes one night and then not play the next. Thomas isn't so much better defensively to bench Beas.

We need to get better. We can't win relying on any of these guys. We really need to make a lateral trade to upgrade our talent

Baker needs to be a perimeter player to succeed. He need to shoot threes and to make threes. All of his pointless dribbling and unfinished drives is not his future...unless he wants to do it in China.
EnySpree
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12/25/2017  10:21 PM
reub wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Thomas and Baker should never play a game for us unless we needed a defensive stop or series.

Beasley can't play big minutes one night and then not play the next. Thomas isn't so much better defensively to bench Beas.

We need to get better. We can't win relying on any of these guys. We really need to make a lateral trade to upgrade our talent

Baker needs to be a perimeter player to succeed. He need to shoot threes and to make threes. All of his pointless dribbling and unfinished drives is not his future...unless he wants to do it in China.

But if the play calls for him to drive he has to be able to finish those. Since he can't then he had no place in anybody's regular totation. He can't donuts drives he can't hit open jumpers... he shouldn't play. He's a liability all over the court except defense. That makes him a situational player

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Paris907
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12/25/2017  11:25 PM
Meanwhile we overpaid big time for Bakers learning curve.
CrushAlot
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12/26/2017  12:09 AM
Paris907 wrote:Meanwhile we overpaid big time for Bakers learning curve.
Just saw a picture of Jacks different colored shoes on Facebook and the first response was stop playing Baker.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
BRIGGS
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12/26/2017  1:46 AM
reub wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Give Beasley the starting 3 and play Dotson instead of Baker


Beasley sucks at the three.

Beasley stinks at 3? Than where do we classify Lance Thomas?

I'd rather play Beasley 32 min At 3

Also Ronny baker has been given non stop opportunity-- more so than many players. He's going to be 25 and is showing nothing?
Bonn1997
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12/26/2017  7:36 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Give Beasley the starting 3 and play Dotson instead of Baker


Beasley sucks at the three.

Beasley stinks at 3? Than where do we classify Lance Thomas?

I'd rather play Beasley 32 min At 3

Also Ronny baker has been given non stop opportunity-- more so than many players. He's going to be 25 and is showing nothing?


Beasley has been a turnover machine, which makes him one of the least efficient high usage players in the league (97 pts per 100 possessions). The turnovers negate any scoring he brings.
HofstraBBall
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12/26/2017  8:09 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Give Beasley the starting 3 and play Dotson instead of Baker


Beasley sucks at the three.

Beasley stinks at 3? Than where do we classify Lance Thomas?

I'd rather play Beasley 32 min At 3

Also Ronny baker has been given non stop opportunity-- more so than many players. He's going to be 25 and is showing nothing?


Beasley has been a turnover machine, which makes him one of the least efficient high usage players in the league (97 pts per 100 possessions). The turnovers negate any scoring he brings.

Ah...the numbers post. If you look at games where he has had considerable minutes, he has had no turn over issues. And lets also ignore mentioning How he has played the games he has started. How bout we just start Baker, Frank and Thomas and watch them play decent defense and give KP and Kanter no help. Can see teams shivering. We should be able to beat no one with that approach.

"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
Bonn1997
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12/26/2017  8:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/26/2017  8:24 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Give Beasley the starting 3 and play Dotson instead of Baker


Beasley sucks at the three.

Beasley stinks at 3? Than where do we classify Lance Thomas?

I'd rather play Beasley 32 min At 3

Also Ronny baker has been given non stop opportunity-- more so than many players. He's going to be 25 and is showing nothing?


Beasley has been a turnover machine, which makes him one of the least efficient high usage players in the league (97 pts per 100 possessions). The turnovers negate any scoring he brings.

Ah...the numbers post. If you look at games where he has had considerable minutes, he has had no turn over issues. And lets also ignore mentioning How he has played the games he has started. How bout we just start Baker, Frank and Thomas and watch them play decent defense and give KP and Kanter no help. Can see teams shivering. We should be able to beat no one with that approach.


He has 24 turnovers in 167 min as a starter. The bigger the role he has, the worse the TOs have been. Only guys like Harden and Westbrook turn the ball over at the same rate but they get a lot of points and assists. If you counted 80% of Beasley's TOs as missed shots, his TOs would be more normal but he'd barely be a 40% shooter, which is ridiculous for a forward who shoots mostly 2s.
nyknickzingis
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12/26/2017  8:29 AM
Knicks need Hardaway back.
They don't have a shot creator at the perimeter, this boggles down the offense and makes the team rely too much on Kanter and Porzingis creating.

The big 3 of Kanter, KP and THJ really makes us more balanced. Allows the team to get away with playing less talented scorers like Thomas and Baker. I have no problem with Baker and Thomas. Defensive players. Take the right shots and make the right plays.
EnySpree
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12/26/2017  8:49 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Give Beasley the starting 3 and play Dotson instead of Baker


Beasley sucks at the three.

Beasley stinks at 3? Than where do we classify Lance Thomas?

I'd rather play Beasley 32 min At 3

Also Ronny baker has been given non stop opportunity-- more so than many players. He's going to be 25 and is showing nothing?


Beasley has been a turnover machine, which makes him one of the least efficient high usage players in the league (97 pts per 100 possessions). The turnovers negate any scoring he brings.

Ah...the numbers post. If you look at games where he has had considerable minutes, he has had no turn over issues. And lets also ignore mentioning How he has played the games he has started. How bout we just start Baker, Frank and Thomas and watch them play decent defense and give KP and Kanter no help. Can see teams shivering. We should be able to beat no one with that approach.


He has 24 turnovers in 167 min as a starter. The bigger the role he has, the worse the TOs have been. Only guys like Harden and Westbrook turn the ball over at the same rate but they get a lot of points and assists. If you counted 80% of Beasley's TOs as missed shots, his TOs would be more normal but he'd barely be a 40% shooter, which is ridiculous for a forward who shoots mostly 2s.

Definately play Thomas, baker and Frank together.... then bench Kanter because his defense was bad last year for the great Spanish hope Willy with Kristaps.... let's pick and role him to death and lose every single game we have left so we can get three number #1 pick. Them let's do it again the next few years until Kristaps signs elsewhere

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Knixkik
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12/26/2017  9:08 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Give Beasley the starting 3 and play Dotson instead of Baker

Dotson will eventually replace Baker i think. He is more of a classic 3 and D upside player who just needs to figure out the NBA game and how to play at this speed. That is the struggle for any rookie and he will eventually figure it out. Beasley is strictly a 4 that belongs in the Porzingis backup role (and maybe next to Porzingis in small stretches when Porzingis plays the 5) and that is his strength. It is tough to expect anymore of him. Lance is still a good defensive player who impacts the game without stats. Thomas will eventually need to be upgraded and moved away from the rotation, but we don't have that player yet. Beasley definitely isn't him. What Beasley does is give us 15 mpg of scoring spark and he is ideal for that.
Welpee
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12/26/2017  9:09 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Give Beasley the starting 3 and play Dotson instead of Baker


Beasley sucks at the three.

Beasley stinks at 3? Than where do we classify Lance Thomas?

I'd rather play Beasley 32 min At 3

Also Ronny baker has been given non stop opportunity-- more so than many players. He's going to be 25 and is showing nothing?


Beasley has been a turnover machine, which makes him one of the least efficient high usage players in the league (97 pts per 100 possessions). The turnovers negate any scoring he brings.
Bonn - here's the deal, obviously if we had Kevin Durant sitting on the bench this is an easy decision. All of our current options are flawed: Thomas, McDermott, and Beasley. I don't know about continuing to start Thomas because he has a low turnover rate when his production is also very low. He turns the ball over so little because he's usually doing very little on the court.

As much as it pains me to admit this, I think Briggs may have a point on this one. Recently Beasley seems to respond when we have needed to rely on him the most, i.e. one of his big issues is focus. Maybe trying him in the starting lineup mitigates that a bit? I would more concerned about his negative impact on ball movement, but even there he has shown himself to be a willing passer. I hate the thought of relying on Beasley for anything, but what choice do we have at this point?

Regarding Baker, he is what he is. People expecting him to develop into more than what he already is are likely to be a little disappointed.
ccch
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12/26/2017  9:22 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Give Beasley the starting 3 and play Dotson instead of Baker

Right on...Thomas needs less playing time. Brings no offence and is defense in just OK.
SupremeCommander
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12/26/2017  9:23 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Give Beasley the starting 3 and play Dotson instead of Baker


Beasley sucks at the three.

Beasley stinks at 3? Than where do we classify Lance Thomas?

I'd rather play Beasley 32 min At 3

Also Ronny baker has been given non stop opportunity-- more so than many players. He's going to be 25 and is showing nothing?


Beasley has been a turnover machine, which makes him one of the least efficient high usage players in the league (97 pts per 100 possessions). The turnovers negate any scoring he brings.

Ah...the numbers post. If you look at games where he has had considerable minutes, he has had no turn over issues. And lets also ignore mentioning How he has played the games he has started. How bout we just start Baker, Frank and Thomas and watch them play decent defense and give KP and Kanter no help. Can see teams shivering. We should be able to beat no one with that approach.


He has 24 turnovers in 167 min as a starter. The bigger the role he has, the worse the TOs have been. Only guys like Harden and Westbrook turn the ball over at the same rate but they get a lot of points and assists. If you counted 80% of Beasley's TOs as missed shots, his TOs would be more normal but he'd barely be a 40% shooter, which is ridiculous for a forward who shoots mostly 2s.

I'm with you... one of the most nerve wracking things to watch is Beasley pushing the ball up court. Not only do I expect the worst, so does the other team because once they realize Beasley is pushing the pace, the nearest defender starts pressing him

Nalod said: You had me at the first sentence. Then you asked us to be your emotional tampon.
Bonn1997
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12/26/2017  9:31 AM
Welpee wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Give Beasley the starting 3 and play Dotson instead of Baker


Beasley sucks at the three.

Beasley stinks at 3? Than where do we classify Lance Thomas?

I'd rather play Beasley 32 min At 3

Also Ronny baker has been given non stop opportunity-- more so than many players. He's going to be 25 and is showing nothing?


Beasley has been a turnover machine, which makes him one of the least efficient high usage players in the league (97 pts per 100 possessions). The turnovers negate any scoring he brings.
Bonn - here's the deal, obviously if we had Kevin Durant sitting on the bench this is an easy decision. All of our current options are flawed: Thomas, McDermott, and Beasley. I don't know about continuing to start Thomas because he has a low turnover rate when his production is also very low. He turns the ball over so little because he's usually doing very little on the court.

As much as it pains me to admit this, I think Briggs may have a point on this one. Recently Beasley seems to respond when we have needed to rely on him the most, i.e. one of his big issues is focus. Maybe trying him in the starting lineup mitigates that a bit? I would more concerned about his negative impact on ball movement, but even there he has shown himself to be a willing passer. I hate the thought of relying on Beasley for anything, but what choice do we have at this point?

Regarding Baker, he is what he is. People expecting him to develop into more than what he already is are likely to be a little disappointed.


McDermott, Beasley, and Thomas are all flawed. Playing them each equally is probably the least bad way to get through the period with TH out.
Bonn1997
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12/26/2017  9:40 AM
EnySpree wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Give Beasley the starting 3 and play Dotson instead of Baker


Beasley sucks at the three.

Beasley stinks at 3? Than where do we classify Lance Thomas?

I'd rather play Beasley 32 min At 3

Also Ronny baker has been given non stop opportunity-- more so than many players. He's going to be 25 and is showing nothing?


Beasley has been a turnover machine, which makes him one of the least efficient high usage players in the league (97 pts per 100 possessions). The turnovers negate any scoring he brings.

Ah...the numbers post. If you look at games where he has had considerable minutes, he has had no turn over issues. And lets also ignore mentioning How he has played the games he has started. How bout we just start Baker, Frank and Thomas and watch them play decent defense and give KP and Kanter no help. Can see teams shivering. We should be able to beat no one with that approach.


He has 24 turnovers in 167 min as a starter. The bigger the role he has, the worse the TOs have been. Only guys like Harden and Westbrook turn the ball over at the same rate but they get a lot of points and assists. If you counted 80% of Beasley's TOs as missed shots, his TOs would be more normal but he'd barely be a 40% shooter, which is ridiculous for a forward who shoots mostly 2s.

Definately play Thomas, baker and Frank together.... then bench Kanter because his defense was bad last year for the great Spanish hope Willy with Kristaps.... let's pick and role him to death and lose every single game we have left so we can get three number #1 pick. Them let's do it again the next few years until Kristaps signs elsewhere


If you're going to make a straw man argument, you can do better than that.
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