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BigSm00th
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9/1/2004  10:57 PM
The game the Pacers were eliminated it was indeed Artest guarding Hamilton. Artest got a flagrant for hitting Rip in the face, and that's what led to the Pistons putting the Pacers away. Hamilton hit the FTs, then scored again. Artest missed a 3, and the Pistons scored again, and Artest missed another 3 and they were down at that point by like 8 or 9 and the game was over.

He tends to blow up at time to time, but so does Tim (the entire Fugazy deal can not be forgotten...)
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s3231
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9/1/2004  10:57 PM
Posted by tkf:

I think a lot of people forgot about Tim Thomas, he is another talented player on our roster and if he has a big year, big things will happen for the knicks.. I will like to see how he plays with craw and steph on the floor at the same time, TT has the skills to be a upper tier player, it is his desire that many question.. I hope he puts it all together this year..






I completely agree. I have said for awhile now that I really think Tim will have a very good season this year. On the Knicks last year he seemed to show much more desire than he showed with the Bucks. If we are going to have a lot of success this year, we really do need Tim to step up.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Silverfuel
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9/1/2004  11:00 PM
Posted by s3231:
Posted by tkf:

I think a lot of people forgot about Tim Thomas, he is another talented player on our roster and if he has a big year, big things will happen for the knicks.. I will like to see how he plays with craw and steph on the floor at the same time, TT has the skills to be a upper tier player, it is his desire that many question.. I hope he puts it all together this year..
I completely agree. I have said for awhile now that I really think Tim will have a very good season this year. On the Knicks last year he seemed to show much more desire than he showed with the Bucks. If we are going to have a lot of success this year, we really do need Tim to step up.
If Tim Thomas can stay healthy and play atleast 70 - 75 games, we are going to see and excellent player at the SF position. The problem is that he is injuerd all the time.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Marv
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9/1/2004  11:07 PM
I just don't see the consistency with TT and don't see why we should expect it now. His whole career has been what we saw in his stint with the Knicks last year. Explosive, All-Star quality one night, hurt or ineffective the next. He's played with some great players before and for some great coaches. Same pattern.
gunsnewing
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9/1/2004  11:20 PM
I'll take Tim Thomas over Artest anyday because when it comes down tp it basketball is about making baskets and I WOULD NOT trust Artest to them in a game.

Tim Thomas is easlily the best SF in the game right now!
daddynel
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9/1/2004  11:29 PM
people seem to forget that timmy also brings a different aspect to the game defensively. not that he's the best defender in the world, but certain teams have that 6'10-6'11 guy that can put it on the floor and penatrate, or pull up on you for a 'j'. you need someone that's not only tall enough, but agile enough to play these type of guys. "exam." odom/bender/kvh/stoyakovich/nowitski(7'0 but still fits the discription). who else on our squad can play these guys? most sf's are 6'7/6'8.
gunsnewing
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9/1/2004  11:35 PM
Posted by s3231:
Posted by tkf:

I think a lot of people forgot about Tim Thomas, he is another talented player on our roster and if he has a big year, big things will happen for the knicks.. I will like to see how he plays with craw and steph on the floor at the same time, TT has the skills to be a upper tier player, it is his desire that many question.. I hope he puts it all together this year..

Exactly how I feel! He did show more desire in New York. He just needed to get out of boring Milwalkee. Believe me!

I completely agree. I have said for awhile now that I really think Tim will have a very good season this year. On the Knicks last year he seemed to show much more desire than he showed with the Bucks. If we are going to have a lot of success this year, we really do need Tim to step up.


[Edited by - gunsnewing on 09/01/2004 23:43:05]
technomaster
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9/2/2004  1:01 AM
Well, I'm not sure if Timmy is an above average STARTING SF. There are 30 jobs like these in the league--- I think he's somewhere in the top 11-20, meaning more or less average for a player with starter minutes.

On the surface, he seems like he has the tools to be an elite player. However, he might lack innate reflexes (quickness) and basketball IQ that separate the elite players and the also-rans. Or maybe his fundamental skills really aren't as good as we think they should be.

Not to pick on him, but another player who never fully realized his potential is Penny Hardaway. Yeah, his knee injuries ultimately derailed his career, but he never seemed to have the right superstar mentality. In addition, his jumper was (and still is) kind of flat-- he never developed a consistent shot. Overall, a very good player, but never quite reached the top despite his all-world talent. It happens.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
TMS
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9/2/2004  8:26 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

I'll take Tim Thomas over Artest anyday because when it comes down tp it basketball is about making baskets and I WOULD NOT trust Artest to them in a game.

Tim Thomas is easlily the best SF in the game right now!

yeah! who needs Andre Kirilenko, Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Lebron James, Peja Stoyakovic, Lamar Odom, Carmelo Anthony, Antawn Jamison, Rashard Lewis & Richard Jefferson! Tim Thomas is clearly better than all of them!
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Silverfuel
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9/2/2004  8:34 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by gunsnewing:

I'll take Tim Thomas over Artest anyday because when it comes down tp it basketball is about making baskets and I WOULD NOT trust Artest to them in a game.

Tim Thomas is easlily the best SF in the game right now!

yeah! who needs Andre Kirilenko, Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Lebron James, Peja Stoyakovic, Lamar Odom, Carmelo Anthony, Antawn Jamison, Rashard Lewis & Richard Jefferson! Tim Thomas is clearly better than all of them!
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....What are you saying Guns? Seriously? WTF is wrong with you?
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Nalod
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9/2/2004  9:32 AM
Posted by technomaster:

Well, I'm not sure if Timmy is an above average STARTING SF. There are 30 jobs like these in the league--- I think he's somewhere in the top 11-20, meaning more or less average for a player with starter minutes.

On the surface, he seems like he has the tools to be an elite player. However, he might lack innate reflexes (quickness) and basketball IQ that separate the elite players and the also-rans. Or maybe his fundamental skills really aren't as good as we think they should be.

Not to pick on him, but another player who never fully realized his potential is Penny Hardaway. Yeah, his knee injuries ultimately derailed his career, but he never seemed to have the right superstar mentality. In addition, his jumper was (and still is) kind of flat-- he never developed a consistent shot. Overall, a very good player, but never quite reached the top despite his all-world talent. It happens.

Once a knick in the off season, you get better and better each week! I have read about these "feelings" that TT is going to have a breakout year. I think hope is really what some of you are "feeling". Thats cool. I have read this week that Penny should be a co-captain for his leadership qualities! A the height of his game, there was no worse "byitch Diva" than Penny!

I agree with Bonn and Silver that putting Artests numbers vs. TT tells only a small part of the story. That fantasy stat thing clouds the judgement. Remember Prince's contributions in the finals. STat wise, he was no animal, but the right block, the right pass, the right rebound can change a game. Doing it at the right time is also huge. Artest is still not right in the head, but his defense speaks volumes!
crzymdups
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9/2/2004  12:21 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

I'll take Tim Thomas over Artest anyday because when it comes down tp it basketball is about making baskets and I WOULD NOT trust Artest to them in a game.

Tim Thomas is easlily the best SF in the game right now!

I like Tim, but I hope you are kidding.
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technomaster
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9/2/2004  2:08 PM
What's considered a breakout season anyway? Upping stats by 2ppg, 1.5rpg? We'll probably see some incremental improvement... but we're much more likely to see Crawford to snatch a chunk of the offense and Sweetney to take some of the scoring opportunities from TT.

TT might play more effectively and efficiently this year, but I wouldn't be surprised if his numbers didn't increase much at all.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
daddynel
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9/2/2004  2:32 PM
Posted by technomaster:

What's considered a breakout season anyway? Upping stats by 2ppg, 1.5rpg? We'll probably see some incremental improvement... but we're much more likely to see Crawford to snatch a chunk of the offense and Sweetney to take some of the scoring opportunities from TT.

TT might play more effectively and efficiently this year, but I wouldn't be surprised if his numbers didn't increase much at all.
if the numbers could be well rounded like that w/sweets and crawford really getting involved, i'd be a happy camper. particularly if tt's and steph's numbers don't change much.
toodarkmark
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9/2/2004  3:02 PM
I he has the same production as last year, but improves defensively I will be VERY happy. I want to see his conditioning through boxing, and tutoring from Aguirre and the likes, make him a more complete player. Points can be the same, but more hustle for rebounds, more blocked shots, more playing tighter man to man.
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bernard
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9/2/2004  3:47 PM
Thomas has fantastic offensive skills ... much better than Ron Artest's IMO. He's got a great handle for a guy his size, is a good shooter, and is very tough to stop mid-post as he's almost always either taller or quicker or both than the guy covering him. But it's absurd to start a discussion of Artest's value with his offensive numbers. IMO, he's the best wing defender in the game.

What TT needs to show, and some of you have been getting at it w/ comments about his inconsistency, is more competitive fire. I'm not talking about challenging guys to fights when he's sitting out w/ an injury. I'm talking about playing like he hates to lose, like Ron Artest does, like Jason Kidd does, like MJ and Worm and IT did.

Knicks have plenty of guys who love winning, even H20 gets excited when they win a close one, but not enough who hate losing, IMO. They need more scrap and attitude, and I'm not sure who on their team will bring it.
MS
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9/2/2004  4:25 PM
TT is a disgrace why are so many of you all over this guy. He doesn't even average 5 boards a game, he is a soft punk, the guy is 6'10 and super athletic whats the reason he can't hit the glass

This post is a joke, that TT would even be compared to Ron Artest who changes the flow of a game, shuts his man down, and does all the little things. Aside from being crazy artest is three times the player thomas is. I would trade his ass in a heartbeat. Shawn Marion has a vey suspect jumper but finds a way to score, and he rebounds nearly 10 a game, jefferson is smaller and averages more boards, as does kidd, its about knowing where the ball is and finding it. Not settling for jumpers, or relaxing on defense.

Give him respect when he earns it
Silverfuel
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9/2/2004  4:38 PM
Posted by MS:

TT is a disgrace why are so many of you all over this guy. He doesn't even average 5 boards a game, he is a soft punk, the guy is 6'10 and super athletic whats the reason he can't hit the glass

This post is a joke, that TT would even be compared to Ron Artest who changes the flow of a game, shuts his man down, and does all the little things. Aside from being crazy artest is three times the player thomas is. I would trade his ass in a heartbeat. Shawn Marion has a vey suspect jumper but finds a way to score, and he rebounds nearly 10 a game, jefferson is smaller and averages more boards, as does kidd, its about knowing where the ball is and finding it. Not settling for jumpers, or relaxing on defense.

Give him respect when he earns it
Even though I hate what you are saying, you are right. We are, as Knick fans, guilty of over rating our players. TT really shouldn't be compared to Artest. I think he will do well this year if he can stay healthy.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
gunsnewing
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9/2/2004  7:59 PM
Posted by MS:

TT is a disgrace why are so many of you all over this guy. He doesn't even average 5 boards a game,

Will averaging 5 rebounds per game win you games? I really don't think so but executing on offense and playing solid defense in the 4th quarter and leaving the rebounding up to Nazr, Sweetney and Thomas will
Bonn1997
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9/2/2004  8:55 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by MS:

TT is a disgrace why are so many of you all over this guy. He doesn't even average 5 boards a game,

Will averaging 5 rebounds per game win you games? I really don't think so but executing on offense and playing solid defense in the 4th quarter and leaving the rebounding up to Nazr, Sweetney and Thomas will
Considering TT's size and athleticism, he should be averaging far more rebounds. However, for an SF, he's not nearly as awful a rebounder as people make him out to be. He probably averages about half a rebound per game less than the average SF.
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