TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Like I keep saying over and over, I have no problem with frank at all, but this kid is flat out better, and you know it. If you were the GM and had an option between both, and you pick frank over him, you would be fired on the spot and escorted out of the building.

Trae Young is getting massive volume right now. He won't at the NBA level. He can create his own shot right now. He won't be able to do that consistently at the NBA level. He's not talented enough to be a primary offensive option in the NBA. He's a player that needs the ball in his hands to thrive. So the question becomes, how does he help as the 2nd or 3rd or 4th offensive option? He doesn't. He's going to end up a net negative on defense. And though his long range shooting is pretty awesome, the question remains is he going to give up as much or more than he gives you.

Given the weak state of his positional value around the college game and his current play, he's pushing himself in to the Tier 3 of the first round conversation now, but that's not guaranteed to be sustainable.

Ntlikina actually fits a real NBA role better than Young, now and in the future.

Young is the kind of player where his offense needs to carry his value, and his offense as it will likely translate to the next level is going to raise some serious concerns.

Young has possibly a better offensive profile right now than Ntilikina but that's all sort of meaningless once you are slotted as someone who is unlikely to be able to consistently create their own shot.

Too many tradeoffs and workarounds to make this guy seem like a real NBA fit.

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Like I keep saying over and over, I have no problem with frank at all, but this kid is flat out better, and you know it. If you were the GM and had an option between both, and you pick frank over him, you would be fired on the spot and escorted out of the building.

Trae Young is getting massive volume right now. He won't at the NBA level. He can create his own shot right now. He won't be able to do that consistently at the NBA level. He's not talented enough to be a primary offensive option in the NBA. He's a player that needs the ball in his hands to thrive. So the question becomes, how does he help as the 2nd or 3rd or 4th offensive option? He doesn't. He's going to end up a net negative on defense. And though his long range shooting is pretty awesome, the question remains is he going to give up as much or more than he gives you.

Given the weak state of his positional value around the college game and his current play, he's pushing himself in to the Tier 3 of the first round conversation now, but that's not guaranteed to be sustainable.

Ntlikina actually fits a real NBA role better than Young, now and in the future.

Young is the kind of player where his offense needs to carry his value, and his offense as it will likely translate to the next level is going to raise some serious concerns.

Young has possibly a better offensive profile right now than Ntilikina but that's all sort of meaningless once you are slotted as someone who is unlikely to be able to consistently create their own shot.

Too many tradeoffs and workarounds to make this guy seem like a real NBA fit.

CrushAlot wrote:Not sure where tier 3 of the first round is but I don't think it is top 7.

How "Tiers" work in a resource management perspective sort of depends on the specific sport. The NBA has a very very very shallow talent pool. The difference in talent levels even by a few picks can actually be very dramatic. The nature of the sport is a very dominant player can touch the ball all the time ( Mike Trout, or someone like Aaron Judge, can only bat so many times a game. A lethal pitcher, say Roger Clemens in his heyday, can only take the mound once every 4-5 days)

Tier 1 in the NBA is when any of the first few picks could reasonably go first overall.

A good example is the draft with Andrew Wiggins/Jabari Parker/Joel Embiid. Any of those guys could have reasonably gone first overall. This forms Tier 1. In the draft with a true franchise player like LeBron James or Shaq or Tim Duncan, a single player comprises Tier 1.

Tier 2 in the first round will comprise of guys who won't have the same ceiling for franchise player potential as Tier 1, but given positional value and upside, the chances are there to be a special player. In the Wiggins draft, Tier 2 would, by example, be any player who could reasonably be taken 4th overall and still not buck market convention. You could pick 9th and get a guy who could have easily been taken 4th. You could pick 6th and get a guy who could have easily been taken 4th. Once you pick a guy who no one could see from a market perspective headlining Tier 2, then you've entered Tier 3.

When pundits say, "This is a 7 player draft" or "This is a 5 player draft", it means the talent drop off goes steep and usually that number comprises Tier 1 and Tier 2.

If it's a "7 player draft", then the 8th player taken is the headliner for Tier 3.

Tier 4, 5 and beyond, operate in the "Cloud" Which means every player at that point has upsides and risks, but you are just hoping for a rotation regular who can contribute. If you get a starter, wonderful. But if you get a solid role player, well that's not always ideal, but it's better than nothing.

Young, if he plays this well, will move from "The Cloud" into Tier 3. His question marks for athleticism and his size issues will keep him out of Tier 1 and Tier 2.

The draft is not strong on point guards this year, which creates some push/pull for his value. How Sexton plays from now until the draft is another factor.

Young is going to get some Steph Curry comparisons but we are talking the most lethal long range shooter in NBA history. Once with true NBA bloodlines and steeped in the culture from childhood.

Once Tier 1 forms, the rest of the pack separates out organically. Odds are Ayton, Doncic and Porter will form their own Tier 1. Maybe one will emerge from that pack, but odds are it will be a group.

How the Tiers are best realized is when you want to trade up or down, which is not that common in the NBA. In the Wiggins draft, to go from 4th overall to 3rd overall is pretty expensive. But going from 6th to 4th would not be as much. Once you leap into the next tier, the price jumps. When you leap into Tier 1, the price becomes exponential. Which is why trading that far up rarely happens, because you need volume to make that kind of deal and most teams don't have that kind of asset depth. Also since a few player make such a big impact compared to the entire player pool, depth of functionality will never outshine singular quality.

knicks1248 wrote:this kid is a monster..this happen today

reub wrote:No one is trading Frank. He'll be our starting point guard for at least 10 years.

Much to the chagrin of the Phil haters and Dennis Smith JR lovers Frank is going to be one of the best players in his draft and at worst a high end starter for many years. Just stay healthy and he's got elite potential.

fishmike wrote:

reub wrote:No one is trading Frank. He'll be our starting point guard for at least 10 years.

knicks1248 is great for calling the opposite. Like Hornecek getting fired soon or lets trade Frank.

Much to the chagrin of the Phil haters and Dennis Smith JR lovers Frank is going to be one of the best players in his draft and at worst a high end starter for many years. Just stay healthy and he's got elite potential.

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

reub wrote:No one is trading Frank. He'll be our starting point guard for at least 10 years.

knicks1248 is great for calling the opposite. Like Hornecek getting fired soon or lets trade Frank.

Much to the chagrin of the Phil haters and Dennis Smith JR lovers Frank is going to be one of the best players in his draft and at worst a high end starter for many years. Just stay healthy and he's got elite potential.

Agreed. Ive noticed the ones who dont believe in Frank also really dislike Phil. We should all be happy to have this kid. Hard working and has a great potential as a two way point guard which we have needed for many years

Oh.... the anti PHil crowd is strangely also the Frank is not so good crowd. 1248, Crush, hofstra, uptown... its all good. Phil did plenty to hate. Drafting wasnt one of them.

knicks1248 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Juliano wrote:Strange free throw shooting motion, this kid has.

I can't stand his shot selection, he is weak as hell too. No way he gets anywhere near the rim on the NBA. Turnovers out of control as well, You can probably add another 4 turnovers onto his 6 a game just from his shots that are taken 5 seconds into the clock from half court

These are the same things i heard about steph curry, that's why he went 5th overall. You gotta remember, the NBA hands out flagrant fouls like candy, this is a ticky tac league, and more than anything, a 3 point shooting league. Frank is good to have, but so is this kid,

If i could have him and frank, i would be dancing down broadway in nothing but my boxers on tonight when the ball drops (what is it 9 degrees..no prob)lol

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Juliano wrote:Strange free throw shooting motion, this kid has.

I can't stand his shot selection, he is weak as hell too. No way he gets anywhere near the rim on the NBA. Turnovers out of control as well, You can probably add another 4 turnovers onto his 6 a game just from his shots that are taken 5 seconds into the clock from half court

These are the same things i heard about steph curry, that's why he went 5th overall. You gotta remember, the NBA hands out flagrant fouls like candy, this is a ticky tac league, and more than anything, a 3 point shooting league. Frank is good to have, but so is this kid,

If i could have him and frank, i would be dancing down broadway in nothing but my boxers on tonight when the ball drops (what is it 9 degrees..no prob)lol

Now you want both? You made multiple threads about how you would easily dump frank for this kid

I said trae would be my 1st option over frank because he's way more aggressive offensively and opposing pg's would have to work a whole lot more guarding him than frank. As a 2nd option I like frank, and that may change if frank stops turning down so many layups.