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I would trade frank and trade up for this kid Trae young..wow
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CrushAlot
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12/24/2017  1:26 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Like I keep saying over and over, I have no problem with frank at all, but this kid is flat out better, and you know it. If you were the GM and had an option between both, and you pick frank over him, you would be fired on the spot and escorted out of the building.


Trae Young is getting massive volume right now. He won't at the NBA level. He can create his own shot right now. He won't be able to do that consistently at the NBA level. He's not talented enough to be a primary offensive option in the NBA. He's a player that needs the ball in his hands to thrive. So the question becomes, how does he help as the 2nd or 3rd or 4th offensive option? He doesn't. He's going to end up a net negative on defense. And though his long range shooting is pretty awesome, the question remains is he going to give up as much or more than he gives you.

Given the weak state of his positional value around the college game and his current play, he's pushing himself in to the Tier 3 of the first round conversation now, but that's not guaranteed to be sustainable.

Ntlikina actually fits a real NBA role better than Young, now and in the future.

Young is the kind of player where his offense needs to carry his value, and his offense as it will likely translate to the next level is going to raise some serious concerns.

Young has possibly a better offensive profile right now than Ntilikina but that's all sort of meaningless once you are slotted as someone who is unlikely to be able to consistently create their own shot.

Too many tradeoffs and workarounds to make this guy seem like a real NBA fit.

i have only watched highlights, and heard him talked about on sports radio and podcasts but everything I have heard and seen has this kid as a lottery pick and most see him as top 7 pick. Not sure where tier 3 of the first round is but I don't think it is top 7.
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CrushAlot
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12/24/2017  1:26 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Like I keep saying over and over, I have no problem with frank at all, but this kid is flat out better, and you know it. If you were the GM and had an option between both, and you pick frank over him, you would be fired on the spot and escorted out of the building.


Trae Young is getting massive volume right now. He won't at the NBA level. He can create his own shot right now. He won't be able to do that consistently at the NBA level. He's not talented enough to be a primary offensive option in the NBA. He's a player that needs the ball in his hands to thrive. So the question becomes, how does he help as the 2nd or 3rd or 4th offensive option? He doesn't. He's going to end up a net negative on defense. And though his long range shooting is pretty awesome, the question remains is he going to give up as much or more than he gives you.

Given the weak state of his positional value around the college game and his current play, he's pushing himself in to the Tier 3 of the first round conversation now, but that's not guaranteed to be sustainable.

Ntlikina actually fits a real NBA role better than Young, now and in the future.

Young is the kind of player where his offense needs to carry his value, and his offense as it will likely translate to the next level is going to raise some serious concerns.

Young has possibly a better offensive profile right now than Ntilikina but that's all sort of meaningless once you are slotted as someone who is unlikely to be able to consistently create their own shot.

Too many tradeoffs and workarounds to make this guy seem like a real NBA fit.

i have only watched highlights, and heard him talked about on sports radio and podcasts but everything I have heard and seen has this kid as a lottery pick and most see him as top 7 pick. Not sure where tier 3 of the first round is but I don't think it is top 7.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
BigDaddyG
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12/24/2017  8:01 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Like I keep saying over and over, I have no problem with frank at all, but this kid is flat out better, and you know it. If you were the GM and had an option between both, and you pick frank over him, you would be fired on the spot and escorted out of the building.


Trae Young is getting massive volume right now. He won't at the NBA level. He can create his own shot right now. He won't be able to do that consistently at the NBA level. He's not talented enough to be a primary offensive option in the NBA. He's a player that needs the ball in his hands to thrive. So the question becomes, how does he help as the 2nd or 3rd or 4th offensive option? He doesn't. He's going to end up a net negative on defense. And though his long range shooting is pretty awesome, the question remains is he going to give up as much or more than he gives you.

Given the weak state of his positional value around the college game and his current play, he's pushing himself in to the Tier 3 of the first round conversation now, but that's not guaranteed to be sustainable.

Ntlikina actually fits a real NBA role better than Young, now and in the future.

Young is the kind of player where his offense needs to carry his value, and his offense as it will likely translate to the next level is going to raise some serious concerns.

Young has possibly a better offensive profile right now than Ntilikina but that's all sort of meaningless once you are slotted as someone who is unlikely to be able to consistently create their own shot.

Too many tradeoffs and workarounds to make this guy seem like a real NBA fit.

i have only watched highlights, and heard him talked about on sports radio and podcasts but everything I have heard and seen has this kid as a lottery pick and most see him as top 7 pick. Not sure where tier 3 of the first round is but I don't think it is top 7.

I want to say tier three is low teens-high 20s. Givony has just outside the top 10. NBAdraft.net has him top 5. It's way to early to circle him in anywhere at this point.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
TripleThreat
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12/24/2017  11:11 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Not sure where tier 3 of the first round is but I don't think it is top 7.


How "Tiers" work in a resource management perspective sort of depends on the specific sport. The NBA has a very very very shallow talent pool. The difference in talent levels even by a few picks can actually be very dramatic. The nature of the sport is a very dominant player can touch the ball all the time ( Mike Trout, or someone like Aaron Judge, can only bat so many times a game. A lethal pitcher, say Roger Clemens in his heyday, can only take the mound once every 4-5 days)

Tier 1 in the NBA is when any of the first few picks could reasonably go first overall.

A good example is the draft with Andrew Wiggins/Jabari Parker/Joel Embiid. Any of those guys could have reasonably gone first overall. This forms Tier 1. In the draft with a true franchise player like LeBron James or Shaq or Tim Duncan, a single player comprises Tier 1.

Tier 2 in the first round will comprise of guys who won't have the same ceiling for franchise player potential as Tier 1, but given positional value and upside, the chances are there to be a special player. In the Wiggins draft, Tier 2 would, by example, be any player who could reasonably be taken 4th overall and still not buck market convention. You could pick 9th and get a guy who could have easily been taken 4th. You could pick 6th and get a guy who could have easily been taken 4th. Once you pick a guy who no one could see from a market perspective headlining Tier 2, then you've entered Tier 3.

When pundits say, "This is a 7 player draft" or "This is a 5 player draft", it means the talent drop off goes steep and usually that number comprises Tier 1 and Tier 2.

If it's a "7 player draft", then the 8th player taken is the headliner for Tier 3.

Tier 4, 5 and beyond, operate in the "Cloud" Which means every player at that point has upsides and risks, but you are just hoping for a rotation regular who can contribute. If you get a starter, wonderful. But if you get a solid role player, well that's not always ideal, but it's better than nothing.

Young, if he plays this well, will move from "The Cloud" into Tier 3. His question marks for athleticism and his size issues will keep him out of Tier 1 and Tier 2.

The draft is not strong on point guards this year, which creates some push/pull for his value. How Sexton plays from now until the draft is another factor.

Young is going to get some Steph Curry comparisons but we are talking the most lethal long range shooter in NBA history. Once with true NBA bloodlines and steeped in the culture from childhood.

Once Tier 1 forms, the rest of the pack separates out organically. Odds are Ayton, Doncic and Porter will form their own Tier 1. Maybe one will emerge from that pack, but odds are it will be a group.

How the Tiers are best realized is when you want to trade up or down, which is not that common in the NBA. In the Wiggins draft, to go from 4th overall to 3rd overall is pretty expensive. But going from 6th to 4th would not be as much. Once you leap into the next tier, the price jumps. When you leap into Tier 1, the price becomes exponential. Which is why trading that far up rarely happens, because you need volume to make that kind of deal and most teams don't have that kind of asset depth. Also since a few player make such a big impact compared to the entire player pool, depth of functionality will never outshine singular quality.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
knicks1248
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12/30/2017  8:34 PM
this kid is a monster..this happen today

ES
Juliano
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12/31/2017  7:40 AM
Strange free throw shooting motion, this kid has.
Jmpasq
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12/31/2017  11:34 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/31/2017  11:44 AM
Juliano wrote:Strange free throw shooting motion, this kid has.

I can't stand his shot selection, he is weak as hell too. No way he gets anywhere near the rim on the NBA. Turnovers out of control as well, You can probably add another 4 turnovers onto his 6 a game just from his shots that are taken 5 seconds into the clock from half court

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StarksEwing1
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12/31/2017  12:51 PM
knicks1248 wrote:this kid is a monster..this happen today

i wouldnt go that far. He is a scorer but the rest of his game is suspect. Im very happy with Frank because he is already a monster on defense and dishing. His offense is starting to blossom every game and by next year im excited to see him produce even more offemsively
BigDaddyG
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12/31/2017  1:55 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
Juliano wrote:Strange free throw shooting motion, this kid has.

I can't stand his shot selection, he is weak as hell too. No way he gets anywhere near the rim on the NBA. Turnovers out of control as well, You can probably add another 4 turnovers onto his 6 a game just from his shots that are taken 5 seconds into the clock from half court


He missed an awful lot of layups in that video clip. It's gonna get a lot worse with NBA defenders. But that could be adjusted depending on his floater game. Can't be wowed by stats because his coach let's him do whatever he wants. More interested in how he handles physical play from baseline to baseline.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Nalod
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12/31/2017  2:32 PM
I agree, nice college player.
OP knows you can’t trade a player from the NCAA.
Let the process play out. He looks like. Little boy out there with that hoist shot.
He is getting looks he won’t in the nba. Curry had a pure stroke even in college. This kid is still young, interesting to see what becomes of him in time.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
reub
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12/31/2017  4:04 PM
No one is trading Frank. He'll be our starting point guard for at least 10 years.
fishmike
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12/31/2017  4:30 PM
reub wrote:No one is trading Frank. He'll be our starting point guard for at least 10 years.
knicks1248 is great for calling the opposite. Like Hornecek getting fired soon or lets trade Frank.

Much to the chagrin of the Phil haters and Dennis Smith JR lovers Frank is going to be one of the best players in his draft and at worst a high end starter for many years. Just stay healthy and he's got elite potential.

TripleThreat
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12/31/2017  4:37 PM
knicks1248 wrote:this kid is a monster..this happen today


Several years back, Shonn Greene, the running back the Jets traded up for, the same draft they took Sanchize, got 100 yards rushing on the first game of the season. On 35+ carries. So yes, if you simply kept giving the running back the ball, over and over and over again, without regard for results, sure, you can get a 1000 yard rusher.

The Jets could get a QB1 who could throw 50 touchdowns in a season. They could get a full on stiff like EJ Manuel, a brain dead cannon arm and let bomb away for every snap all season long. Just bomb away, don't even bother running the ball. Minimum protection, just let everyone fly deep. Structure the defense to give up quick scores so Manuel could get the ball back faster. Except the Jets would lose every game 172 to 21.

People keep looking at Young's stats without any regard for his volume. He's ball dominant and can shoot as much as he likes. Good shot, bad shot, doesn't matter, just chuck it up.

That's not going to translate to the NBA. Not even close.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
StarksEwing1
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12/31/2017  4:38 PM
fishmike wrote:
reub wrote:No one is trading Frank. He'll be our starting point guard for at least 10 years.
knicks1248 is great for calling the opposite. Like Hornecek getting fired soon or lets trade Frank.

Much to the chagrin of the Phil haters and Dennis Smith JR lovers Frank is going to be one of the best players in his draft and at worst a high end starter for many years. Just stay healthy and he's got elite potential.

Agreed. Ive noticed the ones who dont believe in Frank also really dislike Phil. We should all be happy to have this kid. Hard working and has a great potential as a two way point guard which we have needed for many years
fishmike
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12/31/2017  4:41 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
reub wrote:No one is trading Frank. He'll be our starting point guard for at least 10 years.
knicks1248 is great for calling the opposite. Like Hornecek getting fired soon or lets trade Frank.

Much to the chagrin of the Phil haters and Dennis Smith JR lovers Frank is going to be one of the best players in his draft and at worst a high end starter for many years. Just stay healthy and he's got elite potential.

Agreed. Ive noticed the ones who dont believe in Frank also really dislike Phil. We should all be happy to have this kid. Hard working and has a great potential as a two way point guard which we have needed for many years
Oh.... the anti PHil crowd is strangely also the Frank is not so good crowd. 1248, Crush, hofstra, uptown... its all good. Phil did plenty to hate. Drafting wasnt one of them.
StarksEwing1
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12/31/2017  4:44 PM
fishmike wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
reub wrote:No one is trading Frank. He'll be our starting point guard for at least 10 years.
knicks1248 is great for calling the opposite. Like Hornecek getting fired soon or lets trade Frank.

Much to the chagrin of the Phil haters and Dennis Smith JR lovers Frank is going to be one of the best players in his draft and at worst a high end starter for many years. Just stay healthy and he's got elite potential.

Agreed. Ive noticed the ones who dont believe in Frank also really dislike Phil. We should all be happy to have this kid. Hard working and has a great potential as a two way point guard which we have needed for many years
Oh.... the anti PHil crowd is strangely also the Frank is not so good crowd. 1248, Crush, hofstra, uptown... its all good. Phil did plenty to hate. Drafting wasnt one of them.
oh i agree phil definetly screwed up a lot. But i try to be fair about the good things he did too. Frank is definetly the type of point guard we have lacked in a long time
knicks1248
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12/31/2017  5:14 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
Juliano wrote:Strange free throw shooting motion, this kid has.

I can't stand his shot selection, he is weak as hell too. No way he gets anywhere near the rim on the NBA. Turnovers out of control as well, You can probably add another 4 turnovers onto his 6 a game just from his shots that are taken 5 seconds into the clock from half court

These are the same things i heard about steph curry, that's why he went 5th overall. You gotta remember, the NBA hands out flagrant fouls like candy, this is a ticky tac league, and more than anything, a 3 point shooting league. Frank is good to have, but so is this kid,

If i could have him and frank, i would be dancing down broadway in nothing but my boxers on tonight when the ball drops (what is it 9 degrees..no prob)lol

ES
StarksEwing1
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12/31/2017  5:16 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
Juliano wrote:Strange free throw shooting motion, this kid has.

I can't stand his shot selection, he is weak as hell too. No way he gets anywhere near the rim on the NBA. Turnovers out of control as well, You can probably add another 4 turnovers onto his 6 a game just from his shots that are taken 5 seconds into the clock from half court

These are the same things i heard about steph curry, that's why he went 5th overall. You gotta remember, the NBA hands out flagrant fouls like candy, this is a ticky tac league, and more than anything, a 3 point shooting league. Frank is good to have, but so is this kid,

If i could have him and frank, i would be dancing down broadway in nothing but my boxers on tonight when the ball drops (what is it 9 degrees..no prob)lol

Now you want both? You made multiple threads about how you would easily dump frank for this kid
BRIGGS
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12/31/2017  5:29 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:this kid is a monster..this happen today


Several years back, Shonn Greene, the running back the Jets traded up for, the same draft they took Sanchize, got 100 yards rushing on the first game of the season. On 35+ carries. So yes, if you simply kept giving the running back the ball, over and over and over again, without regard for results, sure, you can get a 1000 yard rusher.

The Jets could get a QB1 who could throw 50 touchdowns in a season. They could get a full on stiff like EJ Manuel, a brain dead cannon arm and let bomb away for every snap all season long. Just bomb away, don't even bother running the ball. Minimum protection, just let everyone fly deep. Structure the defense to give up quick scores so Manuel could get the ball back faster. Except the Jets would lose every game 172 to 21.

People keep looking at Young's stats without any regard for his volume. He's ball dominant and can shoot as much as he likes. Good shot, bad shot, doesn't matter, just chuck it up.

That's not going to translate to the NBA. Not even close.


trae young is the show and will be an absolute nba star day 1 game 1

It starts with him being a true superstar pg— better vision than what Lonzo Ball had last year

He will have to change a few things — but not to much! Wait and see!

A month ago wasn’t projected to get drafted now he’s top 3

knicks1248
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1/2/2018  11:52 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
Juliano wrote:Strange free throw shooting motion, this kid has.

I can't stand his shot selection, he is weak as hell too. No way he gets anywhere near the rim on the NBA. Turnovers out of control as well, You can probably add another 4 turnovers onto his 6 a game just from his shots that are taken 5 seconds into the clock from half court

These are the same things i heard about steph curry, that's why he went 5th overall. You gotta remember, the NBA hands out flagrant fouls like candy, this is a ticky tac league, and more than anything, a 3 point shooting league. Frank is good to have, but so is this kid,

If i could have him and frank, i would be dancing down broadway in nothing but my boxers on tonight when the ball drops (what is it 9 degrees..no prob)lol

Now you want both? You made multiple threads about how you would easily dump frank for this kid

I said trae would be my 1st option over frank because he's way more aggressive offensively and opposing pg's would have to work a whole lot more guarding him than frank. As a 2nd option I like frank, and that may change if frank stops turning down so many layups.

ES
I would trade frank and trade up for this kid Trae young..wow

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