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Unfortunately we stink on the road
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BRIGGS
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12/18/2017  11:01 PM
I dont know why such a disparity--but this looks like a lottery team when playing away from home and a feisty playoff team at home. The problem is we are -8 home to road--and if this sustains well be in the 10th playoffs spot or worse by end of January. Need to fix this quickly. Its not so much we dont have KP or hardaway-its the way we play. We play awful basketball on the road.
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Vmart
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12/18/2017  11:09 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I dont know why such a disparity--but this looks like a lottery team when playing away from home and a feisty playoff team at home. The problem is we are -8 home to road--and if this sustains well be in the 10th playoffs spot or worse by end of January. Need to fix this quickly. Its not so much we dont have KP or hardaway-its the way we play. We play awful basketball on the road.

It’s a know fact that backup players don’t play as well on the road as home. As long as the Knicks sitting out their starters on the road they will lose a lot more than win. I don’t think the Knicksnhave played a road game with their starters all there.

BRIGGS
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12/18/2017  11:19 PM
Vmart wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:I dont know why such a disparity--but this looks like a lottery team when playing away from home and a feisty playoff team at home. The problem is we are -8 home to road--and if this sustains well be in the 10th playoffs spot or worse by end of January. Need to fix this quickly. Its not so much we dont have KP or hardaway-its the way we play. We play awful basketball on the road.

It’s a know fact that backup players don’t play as well on the road as home. As long as the Knicks sitting out their starters on the road they will lose a lot more than win. I don’t think the Knicksnhave played a road game with their starters all there.

I dont agree with that. The Spurs throw G League line ups out and win games. Good teams lose players and other step up. We have been getting destroyed on the road--non competitive.

franco12
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12/19/2017  6:22 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Vmart wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:I dont know why such a disparity--but this looks like a lottery team when playing away from home and a feisty playoff team at home. The problem is we are -8 home to road--and if this sustains well be in the 10th playoffs spot or worse by end of January. Need to fix this quickly. Its not so much we dont have KP or hardaway-its the way we play. We play awful basketball on the road.

It’s a know fact that backup players don’t play as well on the road as home. As long as the Knicks sitting out their starters on the road they will lose a lot more than win. I don’t think the Knicksnhave played a road game with their starters all there.

I dont agree with that. The Spurs throw G League line ups out and win games. Good teams lose players and other step up. We have been getting destroyed on the road--non competitive.

Even with KP and Hardaway we've struggled on the road. It's a young team still figuring out how to win. I'm encouraged by how good we are at home. I think eventually they put it together and improve on the road.

But, yea, after January I think we are out of the play off picture and in the 10 or so slot, looking up and we probably finish in the lottery again- which is not terrible if we can add 1 more talent.

I'd also, close to the trade deadline, consider trading my first rounder to a team that would take Noah- if such a team exists- if I am in that same 10 spot, back of lottery position.

nyknickzingis
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12/19/2017  7:34 AM
Can't win road games when so much firepower is out.
25-30 points from KP (although he has not been the same player on the road either)
15-20 points from THJ.

We don't have the depth of stars where we can miss our top 2 and still win on the road.
The fact that we won against OKC and other teams, Nets on the road, in itself was a miracle.

I'll take the loss and prefer we get a healthy KP and THJ for the late season stretch. If we can stay in striking distance all year within the playoffs and then KP is healthy late in the season, we can make that push.

BRIGGS
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12/19/2017  7:45 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:Can't win road games when so much firepower is out.
25-30 points from KP (although he has not been the same player on the road either)
15-20 points from THJ.

We don't have the depth of stars where we can miss our top 2 and still win on the road.
The fact that we won against OKC and other teams, Nets on the road, in itself was a miracle.

I'll take the loss and prefer we get a healthy KP and THJ for the late season stretch. If we can stay in striking distance all year within the playoffs and then KP is healthy late in the season, we can make that push.

Its not that we lose--its that we are non competitive.

blkexec
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12/19/2017  8:09 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Can't win road games when so much firepower is out.
25-30 points from KP (although he has not been the same player on the road either)
15-20 points from THJ.

We don't have the depth of stars where we can miss our top 2 and still win on the road.
The fact that we won against OKC and other teams, Nets on the road, in itself was a miracle.

I'll take the loss and prefer we get a healthy KP and THJ for the late season stretch. If we can stay in striking distance all year within the playoffs and then KP is healthy late in the season, we can make that push.

Its not that we lose--its that we are non competitive.

The spurs had a hall a fame player in David Robinson.....and they got the number 1 pick because he was injured. And even when healthy they were losing. So don't look at the spurs now....look at them b4 Duncan. It's a process where texas fans had to wait it out. Knick fans have no patience. We just starting to develop a win ing culture.....Culture doesn't change overnight. If KP and THJ continue to ride the bench.....like David Robinson did.....We could land a culture changing pick.....We don't have enough talent to win games consistently with out our top two players. Some of our roll players probably wouldn't be in the league right now if it wasn't for the knicks. For examble.....Beas is our best player now.....and he couldnt find a team to take him so he played overseas. Some of the spurs players are solid roll players or talented enough to be a starter. Their system is mature right now. And they found some hidden. gems over the years picking late in the first. Give it time. It will take a while b4 we become that solid where we don't need KP to win games. But without KP and THJ....thats like taking any top two players off the team.....how would they look. Cavs for example have better roll players than us. sit their best two players and they would struggle to win games.

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
Nalod
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12/19/2017  8:28 AM
Spurs culture can plug in “the right journeyman” and he is enhanced. Boris Diaw never played as well anywhere but In SA and he had two stints there. They also let guys walk when other teams sign them to nice contracts. Good teams let guys walk from time to time. They have confidence they will replace them.
This is why most fans suck at playing internet GM. Few of us have the foresight and imagination that a proper process can produce with confidence. I don’t either. I just know what I don’t know in that regard.
As to fix our road woes? I don’t know.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
SupremeCommander
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12/19/2017  9:29 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/19/2017  9:29 AM
we've got a brutal stretch of road games coming up. hopefully they figure it out, but my guess it that doesn't happen... which is why I'd be comfortable selling off guys like Lee, LT, KOQ now. other teams will not pay as much after losing 15 of 20
GustavBahler said: Check please....
BRIGGS
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12/19/2017  9:30 AM
blkexec wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Can't win road games when so much firepower is out.
25-30 points from KP (although he has not been the same player on the road either)
15-20 points from THJ.

We don't have the depth of stars where we can miss our top 2 and still win on the road.
The fact that we won against OKC and other teams, Nets on the road, in itself was a miracle.

I'll take the loss and prefer we get a healthy KP and THJ for the late season stretch. If we can stay in striking distance all year within the playoffs and then KP is healthy late in the season, we can make that push.

Its not that we lose--its that we are non competitive.

The spurs had a hall a fame player in David Robinson.....and they got the number 1 pick because he was injured. And even when healthy they were losing. So don't look at the spurs now....look at them b4 Duncan. It's a process where texas fans had to wait it out. Knick fans have no patience. We just starting to develop a win ing culture.....Culture doesn't change overnight. If KP and THJ continue to ride the bench.....like David Robinson did.....We could land a culture changing pick.....We don't have enough talent to win games consistently with out our top two players. Some of our roll players probably wouldn't be in the league right now if it wasn't for the knicks. For examble.....Beas is our best player now.....and he couldnt find a team to take him so he played overseas. Some of the spurs players are solid roll players or talented enough to be a starter. Their system is mature right now. And they found some hidden. gems over the years picking late in the first. Give it time. It will take a while b4 we become that solid where we don't need KP to win games. But without KP and THJ....thats like taking any top two players off the team.....how would they look. Cavs for example have better roll players than us. sit their best two players and they would struggle to win games.

Nah --good teams win on the road with players down. We are not just losing we are non competitive

Bonn1997
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12/19/2017  9:31 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/19/2017  9:44 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
blkexec wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Can't win road games when so much firepower is out.
25-30 points from KP (although he has not been the same player on the road either)
15-20 points from THJ.

We don't have the depth of stars where we can miss our top 2 and still win on the road.
The fact that we won against OKC and other teams, Nets on the road, in itself was a miracle.

I'll take the loss and prefer we get a healthy KP and THJ for the late season stretch. If we can stay in striking distance all year within the playoffs and then KP is healthy late in the season, we can make that push.

Its not that we lose--its that we are non competitive.

The spurs had a hall a fame player in David Robinson.....and they got the number 1 pick because he was injured. And even when healthy they were losing. So don't look at the spurs now....look at them b4 Duncan. It's a process where texas fans had to wait it out. Knick fans have no patience. We just starting to develop a win ing culture.....Culture doesn't change overnight. If KP and THJ continue to ride the bench.....like David Robinson did.....We could land a culture changing pick.....We don't have enough talent to win games consistently with out our top two players. Some of our roll players probably wouldn't be in the league right now if it wasn't for the knicks. For examble.....Beas is our best player now.....and he couldnt find a team to take him so he played overseas. Some of the spurs players are solid roll players or talented enough to be a starter. Their system is mature right now. And they found some hidden. gems over the years picking late in the first. Give it time. It will take a while b4 we become that solid where we don't need KP to win games. But without KP and THJ....thats like taking any top two players off the team.....how would they look. Cavs for example have better roll players than us. sit their best two players and they would struggle to win games.

Nah --good teams win on the road with players down. We are not just losing we are non competitive


We're not a good team (or a bad team). We're roughly a .500 team IMO.
fishmike
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12/19/2017  10:02 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Vmart wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:I dont know why such a disparity--but this looks like a lottery team when playing away from home and a feisty playoff team at home. The problem is we are -8 home to road--and if this sustains well be in the 10th playoffs spot or worse by end of January. Need to fix this quickly. Its not so much we dont have KP or hardaway-its the way we play. We play awful basketball on the road.

It’s a know fact that backup players don’t play as well on the road as home. As long as the Knicks sitting out their starters on the road they will lose a lot more than win. I don’t think the Knicksnhave played a road game with their starters all there.

I dont agree with that. The Spurs throw G League line ups out and win games. Good teams lose players and other step up. We have been getting destroyed on the road--non competitive.

We are not the Spurs. That is the goal. We just beak OKC with our two best players out. We just arent that good yet. This is part of the process. Learning to win first. Then learning to win on the road. They are just "getting" the offense and what Jeff is trying to instill. They are still learning to play good team defense. This thing is going great but if this turn around is real its in its infantile stages. Patience... not your forte but important.
Melo is ranked 38 on defense. Probably one of the best PF defenders in the league -HofstraBBall (1/24/2018)
fishmike
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12/19/2017  10:04 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
blkexec wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Can't win road games when so much firepower is out.
25-30 points from KP (although he has not been the same player on the road either)
15-20 points from THJ.

We don't have the depth of stars where we can miss our top 2 and still win on the road.
The fact that we won against OKC and other teams, Nets on the road, in itself was a miracle.

I'll take the loss and prefer we get a healthy KP and THJ for the late season stretch. If we can stay in striking distance all year within the playoffs and then KP is healthy late in the season, we can make that push.

Its not that we lose--its that we are non competitive.

The spurs had a hall a fame player in David Robinson.....and they got the number 1 pick because he was injured. And even when healthy they were losing. So don't look at the spurs now....look at them b4 Duncan. It's a process where texas fans had to wait it out. Knick fans have no patience. We just starting to develop a win ing culture.....Culture doesn't change overnight. If KP and THJ continue to ride the bench.....like David Robinson did.....We could land a culture changing pick.....We don't have enough talent to win games consistently with out our top two players. Some of our roll players probably wouldn't be in the league right now if it wasn't for the knicks. For examble.....Beas is our best player now.....and he couldnt find a team to take him so he played overseas. Some of the spurs players are solid roll players or talented enough to be a starter. Their system is mature right now. And they found some hidden. gems over the years picking late in the first. Give it time. It will take a while b4 we become that solid where we don't need KP to win games. But without KP and THJ....thats like taking any top two players off the team.....how would they look. Cavs for example have better roll players than us. sit their best two players and they would struggle to win games.

Nah --good teams win on the road with players down. We are not just losing we are non competitive

blkexec is right. You are not. This is just another one of your "I figured everything out in one game" start a thread statements and it will change 3x this week.
Melo is ranked 38 on defense. Probably one of the best PF defenders in the league -HofstraBBall (1/24/2018)
GustavBahler
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12/19/2017  10:13 AM
Starting PGs like to defend their turf. Jack and Frank are chipping in more. Still dont have a PG who strikes fear in the other team, who can wreak havoc. Frank isnt there yet. Jack doesnt have the athleticism he used to, has to rely more on veteran smarts.
Nalod
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12/19/2017  11:32 AM
Briggs, you see what in front of you and what we all see as well.
Yes, we stink on the road. We might start to stink at home. There is a reason why most projections was not .500 ball.
Its not that writers hate the team and its their pleasure to hate on us, its the reality of a young team. Inconsistency, learning how to close out games and then how to do it on the road.
In the past we have been at or near .500 at this part of the season but the difference is we did it in the melo era with guys that flamed out. Rose started strong, Kidd played well, KT, Sheed.......these wiley vets gave us good stuff. Jack is doing this but after him we are developing rookies and have good youth on the team.
Beas is physically in his prime but really has carried us just one game thus far.
No doubt losing two starters hurts. No doubt we have not done well on the road yet. We might not, but its not a reason to dismantle the roster.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
fwk00
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12/19/2017  12:34 PM
Charlotte was loaded for bear. They hated losing at the garden and it showed. With Porgy and THJ out of action all Charlotte need was that one good run.

A game not necessarily indicative of the Knicks on the road.

nixluva
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12/19/2017  2:40 PM
It's been disappointing to see them lose so much on the road, but this is a team still in the early stages of development. This is a season that could see more growth and maybe a playoff appearance but if they miss it's all part of the process. We have to remain patient and allow the younger players time to develop. No matter what this team still needs more talent.
fishmike
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12/19/2017  2:59 PM
nixluva wrote:It's been disappointing to see them lose so much on the road, but this is a team still in the early stages of development. This is a season that could see more growth and maybe a playoff appearance but if they miss it's all part of the process. We have to remain patient and allow the younger players time to develop. No matter what this team still needs more talent.
Its a great lesson. JVG used to talk about the mental toughness it takes to win on the road. That is something that you develop, not something you are born with. This group is learning they have the talent to play with good teams and win (home) but they are learning that its not as easy in the visitor's gym. Why is that? All the things that young teams and players need to work through and develop. Its all good... just keep playing they way they are playing and we are fine. Lottery or playoffs this year just keep playing like this. The wins and talent will come and develop. Build the system and culture first. We are seeing a good first step. This thread and the poster who started show the patience of some. This is going to take time
Melo is ranked 38 on defense. Probably one of the best PF defenders in the league -HofstraBBall (1/24/2018)
Bonn1997
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12/19/2017  3:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/19/2017  3:42 PM
The average (.500) team wins 60% of its home and 40% of its road games. We've won 2 more home games than a .500 team should and lost 2 more road games. It's likely random and meaningless.
Nalod
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12/19/2017  4:31 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:The average (.500) team wins 60% of its home and 40% of its road games. We've won 2 more home games than a .500 team should and lost 2 more road games. It's likely random and meaningless.

Calming stat.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Unfortunately we stink on the road

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