[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Hardaway vs. McDermott
Author Thread
Panos
Posts: 27052
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/6/2004
Member: #520
12/18/2017  10:26 AM
Hardaway vs. McDermott

Defensively?
Shooting?
Driving?
Passing/playmaking?
Intangibles?

AUTOADVERT
EnySpree
Posts: 44729
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

12/18/2017  11:02 AM
They both have been way better than any of us expected. Derm still doesn't have the starter mentality tat THJr does. Not a knock to him though. Both guys need to keep improving. Derm needs to stay consistent with his hard work and shot making. THJr needs to take advantage of his much improved ball handling and stop bailing out the defense
You know why I'm here....
GustavBahler
Posts: 34510
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

12/18/2017  11:07 AM
Hardaway will move to the 2 eventually. Would like to see Dotson get some more minutes at the 3 and compare McD to Dotson.

Maybe Dotson can give us similar production for less. Doug is playing lights out right now. Will make it hard for Perry not to consider bringing him back.

martin
Posts: 47559
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
12/18/2017  11:14 AM
GustavBahler wrote:Hardaway will move to the 2 eventually. Would like to see Dotson get some more minutes at the 3 and compare McD to Dotson.

Maybe Dotson can give us similar production for less. Doug is playing lights out right now. Will make it hard for Perry not to consider bringing him back.

Would love to see more Dotson too but am pretty sure he won't get minutes as long as McD, Beas, THJr, Lance, Lee are available, and I'm OK with it. Knicks have him on a very good contract and the other guys are on ending contracts or may be traded and Knicks need to make sure team playing well and all those guys playing well.

Do see him getting minutes next year

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
NYKBocker
Posts: 35583
Alba Posts: 472
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
12/18/2017  11:22 AM
GustavBahler wrote:Hardaway will move to the 2 eventually. Would like to see Dotson get some more minutes at the 3 and compare McD to Dotson.

Maybe Dotson can give us similar production for less. Doug is playing lights out right now. Will make it hard for Perry not to consider bringing him back.

I think this will eventually happen. I love how CLee is playing and his intangibles is off the charts but I think he will eventually going to be traded for assets. Once this happens then THJr moves to the 2 spot and Dougie moves to the 3 spot.

Ira
Posts: 24535
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/14/2001
Member: #91
12/18/2017  12:03 PM
Hardaway is more athletic.
newyorknewyork
Posts: 28004
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
12/18/2017  12:05 PM
Think Doug can be a long term staple off the bench. Packaging Lee(& maybe Lance) with a future pick (at the draft) for a good SF may be the route to go.

A wild possibility would be if Detroit has a one and done season or just miss the playoffs. They would look to rebuild. If Kanter we're to opt out. We could take Reggie Jacksons contract off their hands in order to aquire Tobias Harris. Lee could be used to make the salaries match.

We could then use out pick to draft a center. And come away with Jackson, Frank, Jack, Hardaway, Baker, Dotson, Harris, Dougie, Beas?, KP, 2nd rder PF, First rder, Willy, Noah

Another possibility is seeing if Detroit would bite on Kanter, Willy, Lee, Thomas and a pick for Drummond and Harris. Would save Detroit a decent amount of money. Drummond, KP, Harris, Hardaway, Frank, Doug, Jack, Baker Dotson Use our pick on a combo guard and big depth. We would have our core locked in all around their prime. As Frank and KP get better we would become a championship team.

WaltLongmire
Posts: 27564
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

12/18/2017  1:01 PM
A nice problem to have...we seem to have a good deal of talent and a great deal of flexibility at the 2/3 slots.

I'm happy with both Tim and McDermott...Doug is a much better athlete than I had anticipated based on the little I had seen of him, and he seems to have found a good offense for his game.

Have not seen Tim overpowered at the 3(and posting up at his position is somewhat rare today), and I think he benefits a little on the perimeter because he is as quick as most 3 he's guarding...he might not be as effective at the 2.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Cartman718
Posts: 26133
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/12/2007
Member: #1694

12/18/2017  2:08 PM
This whole baker vs frank, frank vs dsj, mcdermott vs thjr...the team does not give a damn. they are playing for each other and they have each other's backs. that's all that matters. i love it love it love it.

THIS TEAM is GELLING!

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Panos
Posts: 27052
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/6/2004
Member: #520
12/18/2017  11:56 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:A nice problem to have...we seem to have a good deal of talent and a great deal of flexibility at the 2/3 slots.

I'm happy with both Tim and McDermott...Doug is a much better athlete than I had anticipated based on the little I had seen of him, and he seems to have found a good offense for his game.

Have not seen Tim overpowered at the 3(and posting up at his position is somewhat rare today), and I think he benefits a little on the perimeter because he is as quick as most 3 he's guarding...he might not be as effective at the 2.

I agree. I thought he was just a long ball shooter, but he's very athletic around the basket, and great hands handling bad passes, and even passes fairly well. I'm pleasantly surprised.

Knixkik
Posts: 29587
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
12/19/2017  9:18 AM
Hardaway is our long-term SG, that much is set in stone. McDermott fits the team well with his shooting, movement without the ball, and personality. My only concern is i don't see McDermott as a future starter or anything like that. He is a great piece in the role he has now. So will we pay that type of player big money? I am always concerned giving a bench rotation player a large long-term contract unless we are a contender and need that piece. Part of me feels like player development and draft picks can get us that role player for 25% of the cost. I see Dotson as filling that role to an extent. I also see us drafted a rotation wing with our first round pick, and a couple of developmental prospects in the second round. I feel we will commit big money contracts to Porzingis, Hardaway, and Kanter, all of which are long-term starters, and not commit big money to anyone until we feel we have a star who can take us to the next level.
GustavBahler
Posts: 34510
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

12/19/2017  10:07 AM
Knixkik wrote:Hardaway is our long-term SG, that much is set in stone. McDermott fits the team well with his shooting, movement without the ball, and personality. My only concern is i don't see McDermott as a future starter or anything like that. He is a great piece in the role he has now. So will we pay that type of player big money? I am always concerned giving a bench rotation player a large long-term contract unless we are a contender and need that piece. Part of me feels like player development and draft picks can get us that role player for 25% of the cost. I see Dotson as filling that role to an extent. I also see us drafted a rotation wing with our first round pick, and a couple of developmental prospects in the second round. I feel we will commit big money contracts to Porzingis, Hardaway, and Kanter, all of which are long-term starters, and not commit big money to anyone until we feel we have a star who can take us to the next level.

Not disagreeing with you. Curious to know what about McDermott's game you believe keeps him from being starter quality? Wouldnt mind Doug starting for the stretch, see how he plays with the Hardaway at the 2. Might work well.

Pretty sure McDermott will get offers as well, having a good season.

Nalod
Posts: 55926
Alba Posts: 151
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
12/19/2017  10:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/19/2017  11:20 AM
Dougie Buckets gotta go where the long term contract will be. Study JJ redick career trajectory as Belinari as well. These guys worked hard to be in shape and get stronger so moving without the ball and outhustling gets them open looks. The shooting was always there. On defense, they can't be liabilities.
Dougie is making progress but he is not quite there yet.

got to see Dotson upclose last nite and the dude is small. He looks every bit the rookie especially in the paint where he spazz's out and gets stripped.
He has the stroke. He is a 2. I like we are playing him from time to time and developing him. I don't see it yet, but im not a scout either.
Baker got bigger from last year. Dude put on some muscle and might have lost quickness.
Last nite the whole team stunk and that will happen.
funny bit at end of game when Noah was cheering the knick crowd behind the basket. Hate the contract but gotta still like the guy. I root for his return and long term health.
Also, Willy is a bit of a cut up on the bench. Is he distracted? perhaps. He just does not look like a basketball player up close. Does not have the "Marc Gasol' length". He needs to play. KOQ's game suits the team better.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Knixkik
Posts: 29587
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
12/19/2017  11:51 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Hardaway is our long-term SG, that much is set in stone. McDermott fits the team well with his shooting, movement without the ball, and personality. My only concern is i don't see McDermott as a future starter or anything like that. He is a great piece in the role he has now. So will we pay that type of player big money? I am always concerned giving a bench rotation player a large long-term contract unless we are a contender and need that piece. Part of me feels like player development and draft picks can get us that role player for 25% of the cost. I see Dotson as filling that role to an extent. I also see us drafted a rotation wing with our first round pick, and a couple of developmental prospects in the second round. I feel we will commit big money contracts to Porzingis, Hardaway, and Kanter, all of which are long-term starters, and not commit big money to anyone until we feel we have a star who can take us to the next level.

Not disagreeing with you. Curious to know what about McDermott's game you believe keeps him from being starter quality? Wouldnt mind Doug starting for the stretch, see how he plays with the Hardaway at the 2. Might work well.

Pretty sure McDermott will get offers as well, having a good season.

I'm with you. Here is a couple of my concerns;
1. His defense still leaves a lot to be desired and next to Hardaway that can be a problem.
2. He can shoot and can score, but is still a low-volume contributor on a per minute basis.
3. His advanced metrics still don't really check out even with him having a very good year.

But i will say, i value his shooting and it's needed in today's game, so he is a valuable piece no matter what the numbers say. My concern is less with his ability to be a starting SF, and more with my concern that if he is our starter, we are not ever going to be a deep playoff contender. We need a big time player at that position when we eventually replace Lee. Until then, Lee provides the same shooting McDermott does, but offers more on the offensive end and creating shots as well. In today's game, Lee, or a player like him can handle SF duties just fine. Again, this isn't a knock on McDermott, but i am eager to save cap space outside of committing to obvious long-term starting players. I believe guys like Dotson and other future draft selections can develop into good rotation players.

fwk00
Posts: 20972
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/20/2015
Member: #6048

12/19/2017  12:31 PM
McBuckets has turned into a Kyle Korver clone in the making. He's not there yet but by playoff time he could become highly valued.

I have some crow to eat on Hardaway. I absolutely hated his game the first time through and wrote him off as an entitled, ingrown NBA prima donna.

Hardaway has taken the game seriously and is a welcome and encouraging work in progress. He seems serious about earning his pay and its all good.

Both are keepers as is Baker, another WIP who is growing a 3-pt shot.

The roster is strong and deep.

Jmpasq
Posts: 23441
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/10/2012
Member: #4182

12/20/2017  7:18 AM
Knixkik wrote:Hardaway is our long-term SG, that much is set in stone. McDermott fits the team well with his shooting, movement without the ball, and personality. My only concern is i don't see McDermott as a future starter or anything like that. He is a great piece in the role he has now. So will we pay that type of player big money? I am always concerned giving a bench rotation player a large long-term contract unless we are a contender and need that piece. Part of me feels like player development and draft picks can get us that role player for 25% of the cost. I see Dotson as filling that role to an extent. I also see us drafted a rotation wing with our first round pick, and a couple of developmental prospects in the second round. I feel we will commit big money contracts to Porzingis, Hardaway, and Kanter, all of which are long-term starters, and not commit big money to anyone until we feel we have a star who can take us to the next level.

Yep he will price himself out
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
fishmike
Posts: 48816
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
12/20/2017  9:41 AM
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Hardaway is our long-term SG, that much is set in stone. McDermott fits the team well with his shooting, movement without the ball, and personality. My only concern is i don't see McDermott as a future starter or anything like that. He is a great piece in the role he has now. So will we pay that type of player big money? I am always concerned giving a bench rotation player a large long-term contract unless we are a contender and need that piece. Part of me feels like player development and draft picks can get us that role player for 25% of the cost. I see Dotson as filling that role to an extent. I also see us drafted a rotation wing with our first round pick, and a couple of developmental prospects in the second round. I feel we will commit big money contracts to Porzingis, Hardaway, and Kanter, all of which are long-term starters, and not commit big money to anyone until we feel we have a star who can take us to the next level.

Not disagreeing with you. Curious to know what about McDermott's game you believe keeps him from being starter quality? Wouldnt mind Doug starting for the stretch, see how he plays with the Hardaway at the 2. Might work well.

Pretty sure McDermott will get offers as well, having a good season.

I'm with you. Here is a couple of my concerns;
1. His defense still leaves a lot to be desired and next to Hardaway that can be a problem.
2. He can shoot and can score, but is still a low-volume contributor on a per minute basis.
3. His advanced metrics still don't really check out even with him having a very good year.

But i will say, i value his shooting and it's needed in today's game, so he is a valuable piece no matter what the numbers say. My concern is less with his ability to be a starting SF, and more with my concern that if he is our starter, we are not ever going to be a deep playoff contender. We need a big time player at that position when we eventually replace Lee. Until then, Lee provides the same shooting McDermott does, but offers more on the offensive end and creating shots as well. In today's game, Lee, or a player like him can handle SF duties just fine. Again, this isn't a knock on McDermott, but i am eager to save cap space outside of committing to obvious long-term starting players. I believe guys like Dotson and other future draft selections can develop into good rotation players.

McD is a classic MLE player and I think thats his market. He's not going to get big starter money as everyone knows he cant create his own shot and he's an average (but very willing) defender.

MLE is about $8mm right? I would give him that for sure. 4/$35mm gives you a good bench player who can give you some spot starts and be an important part of what you are doing. I think thats his market and I would bring him back for that. Age 26-29 is prime years and if healthy he's a nice flexible piece for trades etc, although the point is to keep him, not flip him. A MLE deal is a nice spot for him IMO

Nalod
Posts: 55926
Alba Posts: 151
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
12/20/2017  11:47 AM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Hardaway is our long-term SG, that much is set in stone. McDermott fits the team well with his shooting, movement without the ball, and personality. My only concern is i don't see McDermott as a future starter or anything like that. He is a great piece in the role he has now. So will we pay that type of player big money? I am always concerned giving a bench rotation player a large long-term contract unless we are a contender and need that piece. Part of me feels like player development and draft picks can get us that role player for 25% of the cost. I see Dotson as filling that role to an extent. I also see us drafted a rotation wing with our first round pick, and a couple of developmental prospects in the second round. I feel we will commit big money contracts to Porzingis, Hardaway, and Kanter, all of which are long-term starters, and not commit big money to anyone until we feel we have a star who can take us to the next level.

Not disagreeing with you. Curious to know what about McDermott's game you believe keeps him from being starter quality? Wouldnt mind Doug starting for the stretch, see how he plays with the Hardaway at the 2. Might work well.

Pretty sure McDermott will get offers as well, having a good season.

I'm with you. Here is a couple of my concerns;
1. His defense still leaves a lot to be desired and next to Hardaway that can be a problem.
2. He can shoot and can score, but is still a low-volume contributor on a per minute basis.
3. His advanced metrics still don't really check out even with him having a very good year.

But i will say, i value his shooting and it's needed in today's game, so he is a valuable piece no matter what the numbers say. My concern is less with his ability to be a starting SF, and more with my concern that if he is our starter, we are not ever going to be a deep playoff contender. We need a big time player at that position when we eventually replace Lee. Until then, Lee provides the same shooting McDermott does, but offers more on the offensive end and creating shots as well. In today's game, Lee, or a player like him can handle SF duties just fine. Again, this isn't a knock on McDermott, but i am eager to save cap space outside of committing to obvious long-term starting players. I believe guys like Dotson and other future draft selections can develop into good rotation players.

McD is a classic MLE player and I think thats his market. He's not going to get big starter money as everyone knows he cant create his own shot and he's an average (but very willing) defender.

MLE is about $8mm right? I would give him that for sure. 4/$35mm gives you a good bench player who can give you some spot starts and be an important part of what you are doing. I think thats his market and I would bring him back for that. Age 26-29 is prime years and if healthy he's a nice flexible piece for trades etc, although the point is to keep him, not flip him. A MLE deal is a nice spot for him IMO

Korver once he had some security defined his role and got even better at what he was good at. Sometimes guaranteed money can propel a career. Sometimes is makes you lazy.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Knixkik
Posts: 29587
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
12/20/2017  12:36 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Hardaway is our long-term SG, that much is set in stone. McDermott fits the team well with his shooting, movement without the ball, and personality. My only concern is i don't see McDermott as a future starter or anything like that. He is a great piece in the role he has now. So will we pay that type of player big money? I am always concerned giving a bench rotation player a large long-term contract unless we are a contender and need that piece. Part of me feels like player development and draft picks can get us that role player for 25% of the cost. I see Dotson as filling that role to an extent. I also see us drafted a rotation wing with our first round pick, and a couple of developmental prospects in the second round. I feel we will commit big money contracts to Porzingis, Hardaway, and Kanter, all of which are long-term starters, and not commit big money to anyone until we feel we have a star who can take us to the next level.

Not disagreeing with you. Curious to know what about McDermott's game you believe keeps him from being starter quality? Wouldnt mind Doug starting for the stretch, see how he plays with the Hardaway at the 2. Might work well.

Pretty sure McDermott will get offers as well, having a good season.

I'm with you. Here is a couple of my concerns;
1. His defense still leaves a lot to be desired and next to Hardaway that can be a problem.
2. He can shoot and can score, but is still a low-volume contributor on a per minute basis.
3. His advanced metrics still don't really check out even with him having a very good year.

But i will say, i value his shooting and it's needed in today's game, so he is a valuable piece no matter what the numbers say. My concern is less with his ability to be a starting SF, and more with my concern that if he is our starter, we are not ever going to be a deep playoff contender. We need a big time player at that position when we eventually replace Lee. Until then, Lee provides the same shooting McDermott does, but offers more on the offensive end and creating shots as well. In today's game, Lee, or a player like him can handle SF duties just fine. Again, this isn't a knock on McDermott, but i am eager to save cap space outside of committing to obvious long-term starting players. I believe guys like Dotson and other future draft selections can develop into good rotation players.

McD is a classic MLE player and I think thats his market. He's not going to get big starter money as everyone knows he cant create his own shot and he's an average (but very willing) defender.

MLE is about $8mm right? I would give him that for sure. 4/$35mm gives you a good bench player who can give you some spot starts and be an important part of what you are doing. I think thats his market and I would bring him back for that. Age 26-29 is prime years and if healthy he's a nice flexible piece for trades etc, although the point is to keep him, not flip him. A MLE deal is a nice spot for him IMO

I agree that he's a MLE player. Especially in this market where there isn't a lot of extra money to throw around anymore. We will just have to decide if he's worth it considering we will want to preserve cap space for a true impact star.

Nalod
Posts: 55926
Alba Posts: 151
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
12/20/2017  12:54 PM
Dougie vs. Holiday.

Which is better? About same money and roles they play.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Hardaway vs. McDermott

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.