The thing is we dont have the goods to beat the Celtics Cavs Warriors Spurs or Rockets.

Can we get a long term good player using Willy to help the team this year?

bernard wrote:I'm skeptical that any team on which M. Beasley gets significant minutes can be a top 10 defensive team. I really hope his time in the rotation ends once we get healthy. Other than that -- I agree. Really like the way everyone else on the team works on the defensive end. You can see it some of the scramble possessions, where someone gets beat of the dribble (still happens too much) and the rest of the possession guys are just busting it to challenge shots and force one more pass.

Always thought that Beas is a fill in type player, not a long term guy for the Knicks. Same with Kanter but like him a lot more

bernard wrote:I'm skeptical that any team on which M. Beasley gets significant minutes can be a top 10 defensive team. I really hope his time in the rotation ends once we get healthy. Other than that -- I agree. Really like the way everyone else on the team works on the defensive end. You can see it some of the scramble possessions, where someone gets beat of the dribble (still happens too much) and the rest of the possession guys are just busting it to challenge shots and force one more pass.

Im not a fan either overall, but he's a great stop gap guy. KP gets nicked up a lot. I suspect KP will be a 70 game a year guy so the back up PF is going to be a key spot. Beas is nice as you know what your going to get. Jeff seems to have picked good spots for him and his teammates clearly get behind him.

That being said what nyknickzingis is spot on. Two key guys who didnt defend at all have been replaced by players who bust it. Kanter's defense has been servicable and has a lot of room for improvement. That being said his effort alone is light years better than what Rose/Melo gave.

To me it starts on the perimeter. Keep guys in front of you. Melo/Rose/Jennings have been replaced by guys like Frank/McD/Baker/Jack. Guys who are committed. They are rallying behind each other, not one guy. What is nice we are winning some games with KP getting nicked up and THjr out who was playing his best ball, possibly ever.

Also.......I like the job Hornacek is doing this year with this team. Growing the yoots, starts with defense. Same guy that gave Willy the chance last year changed the culture in the off season. Phil did a good hire with him. Then knicks did a good job moving Phil out.

Jmpasq wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:We're such a different defensive team without Rose and Melo. It's unreal, really. I'm so happy we're seeing the fruits of getting rid of those guys. They almost never played defense and it set the worst culture possible.

Kanter can't protect the basket, but he moves his feet. When Kanter gets beat by layups inside then Horny goes to O'Quinn or even KP.

Lance Thomas moves his feet.
CLee was always a solid defender.
Frank really is oustanding defensively. Covers ground exceptionally well.
Dougie fights hard.
Ron is a complete bull.
KP's one of the best rim protectors in the league.

If we could get a starting wing that can defend the 3, we may have potential to be one of the top 10 defensive teams in the league when Frank starts in the future.

I don't know if it's just me, but I felt our defense got better once Timmy got hurt. All of a sudden we're playing defense that you can see win playoff games in the future. Not a knock on Timmy, I just think this team is full of character guys who care about defense and each other.

They have played 1 team over .500 over that span. The Pacers scored 115 and waxed them by 18 points

How many times you have to here a player say "it was m massive amount of confusion from top to bottom" before you start singling out any one player. This team plays better defense because the philosophy has changed, You heard KP say they were still confused on defense during the preseason, and that they needed to simplify things. That exactly what the did.

The overall effort is definitely better, but you can see that the schemes and rotations they run masks the flaws of some of their weaker defenders.

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:We're such a different defensive team without Rose and Melo. It's unreal, really. I'm so happy we're seeing the fruits of getting rid of those guys. They almost never played defense and it set the worst culture possible.

Kanter can't protect the basket, but he moves his feet. When Kanter gets beat by layups inside then Horny goes to O'Quinn or even KP.

Lance Thomas moves his feet.
CLee was always a solid defender.
Frank really is oustanding defensively. Covers ground exceptionally well.
Dougie fights hard.
Ron is a complete bull.
KP's one of the best rim protectors in the league.

If we could get a starting wing that can defend the 3, we may have potential to be one of the top 10 defensive teams in the league when Frank starts in the future.

I don't know if it's just me, but I felt our defense got better once Timmy got hurt. All of a sudden we're playing defense that you can see win playoff games in the future. Not a knock on Timmy, I just think this team is full of character guys who care about defense and each other.

They have played 1 team over .500 over that span. The Pacers scored 115 and waxed them by 18 points

How many times you have to here a player say "it was m massive amount of confusion from top to bottom" before you start singling out any one player. This team plays better defense because the philosophy has changed, You heard KP say they were still confused on defense during the preseason, and that they needed to simplify things. That exactly what the did.

The overall effort is definitely better, but you can see that the schemes and rotations they run masks the flaws of some of their weaker defenders.

the Knicks defense was ranked 29th, 24th, and 24th for Phil's three years and each year he thought he had assembled a playoff team. We're such a different team since Phil left. Thank goodness no one was traded or resigned based on exit meeting performance.

It's amazing how some are still pinning our misfortunes on melo and rose, knowing we were winning without phil

knicks1248 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:We're such a different defensive team without Rose and Melo. It's unreal, really. I'm so happy we're seeing the fruits of getting rid of those guys. They almost never played defense and it set the worst culture possible.

Kanter can't protect the basket, but he moves his feet. When Kanter gets beat by layups inside then Horny goes to O'Quinn or even KP.

Lance Thomas moves his feet.
CLee was always a solid defender.
Frank really is oustanding defensively. Covers ground exceptionally well.
Dougie fights hard.
Ron is a complete bull.
KP's one of the best rim protectors in the league.

If we could get a starting wing that can defend the 3, we may have potential to be one of the top 10 defensive teams in the league when Frank starts in the future.

I don't know if it's just me, but I felt our defense got better once Timmy got hurt. All of a sudden we're playing defense that you can see win playoff games in the future. Not a knock on Timmy, I just think this team is full of character guys who care about defense and each other.

They have played 1 team over .500 over that span. The Pacers scored 115 and waxed them by 18 points

How many times you have to here a player say "it was m massive amount of confusion from top to bottom" before you start singling out any one player. This team plays better defense because the philosophy has changed, You heard KP say they were still confused on defense during the preseason, and that they needed to simplify things. That exactly what the did.

The overall effort is definitely better, but you can see that the schemes and rotations they run masks the flaws of some of their weaker defenders.

You are right. The culture is better and the coach is better without Phil. That has helped. You know whats helped more? Having guys you can bench for poor effort and execution and literally every player except KP has been yanked for poor defense at some point this year.

Reality? If you want to make this about Phil or Melo go for it. Phil wins every time. Phil was great for this franchise. The only blunder that still hurts is Noah, and thats not hurting too bad (so far). Phil got Dolan's hands off the franchise. Phil drafted KP, Willy, Dotson and Frank. Phil signed Lee, KOQ and Lance. Phil hired Jeff. Phil was chopped at the perfect time, right before he could phuck up a Melo trade. However the things Phil got right are lasting and a huge part of this turn around. He also made the Melo relationship so toxic there was no chance of a reconciliation which also helped us. So even when Phil was sucking he ended up helping.

If anyone has come out shiny here its Mills. Mills kept the good that Phil did. We even let Phil hang around for the draft (looking smart) before getting him out as we all knew he was going to ruin any Melo trade.

End of the day very few people will view Phil as a great exec, but he got Dolan's hands off the Knicks and left us with Lance, Lee, KOQ, KP, Frank, Dotson, Willy, Baker and Jeff.

Phil was the disposable enema this franchise needed. It was neither comfortable or pretty but the purpose and needs were served. Melo? He ended up being one of the turds. We can all rejoice about that time we almost beat the Pacers in the playoffs, or we can go visit his wax statue.

knicks1248 you ensured everyone repeatedly no success would ever be achieved under Mills. You asked how long before Hornecek was fired. You reminded us repeatedly how bad Mills was preaching defense and bringing in guys who never defend in Kanter, McD and Tim Hardaway. But yea man... I know I surely value your every word. Considering the crap you spewed over and over its funny to hear you talk like you knew all along. Pa-lease.