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NardDogNation
Posts: 26682
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2013
Member: #5555

12/14/2017  3:57 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/14/2017  4:02 PM
I love our youth but hate the direction of the team and the culture of our front office. I've wanted to flesh out this position more thoroughly since the end of the offseason but haven't had the time or motivation to do the research to defend it.

And despite our "success" to start the season, I can't help but shake the feeling that we are on a fool's errand that will yield the same results we've experienced before i.e. an overpriced, underachieving and structually flawed team with a superior talent that we run into the ground and inevitably alienate. Why do I feel that way? It's because there is a common theme/thread in which the franchise demonstrates an inability to understand opportunity cost or maintain any degree of patience to develop a cohesive long-term strategy/plan. But this is a point I've touched on in other threads, so I'll just ask this:

Wouldn't a more conservative (financial) approach that yielded something like this be more appealing in the long AND short-term?

STARTERS
PG: Corey Joseph
SG: Justin Holiday
SF: DeMarre Carroll
PF: Kristaps Porzingis
C: Guillermo "Willy" Hernangomez

ROTATION
G: Frank Ntilikina
G: Jamal Crawford
SF: Doug McDermott
F: Juancho Hernangomez
C: Joakim Noah

BENCH
PG: Jose Calderon
SG: Demyean Dotson
SF: Richard Jefferson
F/C: Luis Scola
C: Alexis Ajinca

Payroll: $87 million (Justin Holiday retained to a 2yr/$12 million as opposed to current 2yr/$9 million; Luis Scola signed to a 1yr/$4 million deal)

ASSET CACHE:
2018 CHI Second Round Pick (via OKC)
2019 TOR Second Round Pick (via CLE for Calderon and Jefferson contract dump)
2020 MEM Second Round Pick (via CLE for Calderon and Jefferson contract dump)
$12 million of cap space

AUTOADVERT
newyorknewyork
Posts: 27808
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
12/14/2017  4:53 PM
I didn't follow how you were able to trade away or obtain the player to form the roster. Its not really fair though to judge Perry as he has only traded Melo for Kanter and Mcdermott and signed Jack to vet min. Both those moves have turned out to be solid. He wasn't responsible for moves you aren't fond of like Hardaway signing and Baker signing. And we have no way of knowing if he has been working the phones to trade a Lee or KOQ or Kanter. Or if he has been turning down offers in order to keep them. Etc, etc.
BigDaddyG
Posts: 25764
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049

12/14/2017  5:02 PM
NardDogNation wrote:I love our youth but hate the direction of the team and the culture of our front office. I've wanted to flesh out this position more thoroughly since the end of the offseason but haven't had the time or motivation to do the research to defend it.

And despite our "success" to start the season, I can't help but shake the feeling that we are on a fool's errand that will yield the same results we've experienced before i.e. an overpriced, underachieving and structually flawed team with a superior talent that we run into the ground and inevitably alienate. Why do I feel that way? It's because there is a common theme/thread in which the franchise demonstrates an inability to understand opportunity cost or maintain any degree of patience to develop a cohesive long-term strategy/plan. But this is a point I've touched on in other threads, so I'll just ask this:

Wouldn't a more conservative (financial) approach that yielded something like this be more appealing in the long AND short-term?

STARTERS
PG: Corey Joseph
SG: Justin Holiday
SF: DeMarre Carroll
PF: Kristaps Porzingis
C: Guillermo "Willy" Hernangomez

ROTATION
G: Frank Ntilikina
G: Jamal Crawford
SF: Doug McDermott
F: Juancho Hernangomez
C: Joakim Noah

BENCH
PG: Jose Calderon
SG: Demyean Dotson
SF: Richard Jefferson
F/C: Luis Scola
C: Alexis Ajinca

Payroll: $87 million (Justin Holiday retained to a 2yr/$12 million as opposed to current 2yr/$9 million; Luis Scola signed to a 1yr/$4 million deal)

ASSET CACHE:
2018 CHI Second Round Pick (via OKC)
2019 TOR Second Round Pick (via CLE for Calderon and Jefferson contract dump)
2020 MEM Second Round Pick (via CLE for Calderon and Jefferson contract dump)
$12 million of cap space

I agree. But, to be fair, Perry wasn't here for THJ signing and he did the best he could in the Melo situation. I'll need another season before I start killing the front office. That'll change if we do something stupid like trade for George Hill this season.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
EnySpree
Posts: 44729
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

12/14/2017  5:11 PM
Why are we killing the front office again? They haven't done anything yet except hit a home run with this Melo trade. We are building a new culture and that's all Perry is talking about. He's not going to flip the roster just to pick up bargain basement talent. We're going to build on the good things we are doing. That's what we should be doing.
You know why I'm here....
NardDogNation
Posts: 26682
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2013
Member: #5555

12/14/2017  5:45 PM
EnySpree wrote:Why are we killing the front office again? They haven't done anything yet except hit a home run with this Melo trade. We are building a new culture and that's all Perry is talking about. He's not going to flip the roster just to pick up bargain basement talent. We're going to build on the good things we are doing. That's what we should be doing.

Be prepared for a ton of second round exits during KP's prime then. You geniunely woild prefer the current roster as opposed to what I proposed in this thread?

EnySpree
Posts: 44729
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

12/14/2017  5:56 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Why are we killing the front office again? They haven't done anything yet except hit a home run with this Melo trade. We are building a new culture and that's all Perry is talking about. He's not going to flip the roster just to pick up bargain basement talent. We're going to build on the good things we are doing. That's what we should be doing.

Be prepared for a ton of second round exits during KP's prime then. You geniunely woild prefer the current roster as opposed to what I proposed in this thread?

Uh yes... maybe we can add some of the type of players you are suggesting but we need to build a culture not a half way house. There's still questions with the salary that magically disappeared in your scenerio.

You know why I'm here....
NardDogNation
Posts: 26682
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2013
Member: #5555

12/14/2017  6:16 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:I love our youth but hate the direction of the team and the culture of our front office. I've wanted to flesh out this position more thoroughly since the end of the offseason but haven't had the time or motivation to do the research to defend it.

And despite our "success" to start the season, I can't help but shake the feeling that we are on a fool's errand that will yield the same results we've experienced before i.e. an overpriced, underachieving and structually flawed team with a superior talent that we run into the ground and inevitably alienate. Why do I feel that way? It's because there is a common theme/thread in which the franchise demonstrates an inability to understand opportunity cost or maintain any degree of patience to develop a cohesive long-term strategy/plan. But this is a point I've touched on in other threads, so I'll just ask this:

Wouldn't a more conservative (financial) approach that yielded something like this be more appealing in the long AND short-term?

STARTERS
PG: Corey Joseph
SG: Justin Holiday
SF: DeMarre Carroll
PF: Kristaps Porzingis
C: Guillermo "Willy" Hernangomez

ROTATION
G: Frank Ntilikina
G: Jamal Crawford
SF: Doug McDermott
F: Juancho Hernangomez
C: Joakim Noah

BENCH
PG: Jose Calderon
SG: Demyean Dotson
SF: Richard Jefferson
F/C: Luis Scola
C: Alexis Ajinca

Payroll: $87 million (Justin Holiday retained to a 2yr/$12 million as opposed to current 2yr/$9 million; Luis Scola signed to a 1yr/$4 million deal)

ASSET CACHE:
2018 CHI Second Round Pick (via OKC)
2019 TOR Second Round Pick (via CLE for Calderon and Jefferson contract dump)
2020 MEM Second Round Pick (via CLE for Calderon and Jefferson contract dump)
$12 million of cap space

I agree. But, to be fair, Perry wasn't here for THJ signing and he did the best he could in the Melo situation. I'll need another season before I start killing the front office. That'll change if we do something stupid like trade for George Hill this season.

But Steve Mills is ultimately the guy with the final say on basketball decisions and acted as such when he signed THJr and Ron Baker getting a feel for the market. So why should I expect different?

GustavBahler
Posts: 34212
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Member: #3186

12/14/2017  6:20 PM
I keep hearing that the Knicks will never get past an early exit in the playoffs with this team, so lets go for draft picks until we draft another team that will be good enough to make the playoffs.

Then of course you have to trade them all over again because this team still isn't good enough to contend. Its like the freaking Twilight Zone.

We arent goint from crap to contender in one big leap. Perry sees the team looking like they've reached a plateau, he's going to make some moves. Thats how its done.

This is the best Ive felt as a fan in eons, this team has a future. So I have a hard time understanding someone saying "F it" lets go back to the way things were, with a few more draft picks.

PASS

EnySpree
Posts: 44729
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

12/14/2017  6:27 PM
GustavBahler wrote:I keep hearing that the Knicks will never get past an early exit in the playoffs with this team, so lets go for draft picks until we draft another team that will be good enough to make the playoffs.

Then of course you have to trade them all over again because this team still isn't good enough to contend. Its like the freaking Twilight Zone.

We arent goint from crap to contender in one big leap. Perry sees the team looking like they've reached a plateau, he's going to make some moves. Thats how its done.

This is the best Ive felt as a fan in eons, this team has a future. So I have a hard time understanding someone saying "F it" lets go back to the way things were, with a few more draft picks.

PASS

Yaaaaaaasssss lol...

You know why I'm here....
Cartman718
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Joined: 10/12/2007
Member: #1694

12/14/2017  6:57 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/14/2017  6:58 PM
So......humoring you (thread maker), we'd then take on 2 no-defense playing Hernangomez brothers as opposed to 1, and adding Jose "1st team all defense" Calderon to a bench role that is clearly being filled way better by Sessions.

Add overpriced Carroll and chuckster Crawford to the mix and yes that team should definitely make the NBA finals.
And Corey Joseph...over...Ntilikina if you are going to the youth way...?

The only player that I'd like to bring back is Justin Holiday. His talents are being wasted on that Bulls team and he could do much more damage to other teams in the playoffs for us.

Thats gonna be a hard PASS bruh

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
jrodmc
Posts: 30776
Alba Posts: 50
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Member: #805
USA
12/15/2017  1:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/15/2017  1:04 PM
NardDogNation wrote:And despite our "success" to start the season, I can't help but shake the feeling that we are on a fool's errand that will yield the same results we've experienced before i.e. an overpriced, underachieving and structually flawed team with a superior talent that we run into the ground and inevitably alienate.

Interesting point. Is this some secretly hidden Melo love, or were you referring to half a season of double double Stat? Or possibly both?

NardDogNation wrote:Why do I feel that way? It's because there is a common theme/thread in which the franchise demonstrates an inability to understand opportunity cost or maintain any degree of patience to develop a cohesive long-term strategy/plan. But this is a point I've touched on in other threads, so I'll just ask this:

Wouldn't a more conservative (financial) approach that yielded something like this be more appealing in the long AND short-term?

STARTERS
PG: Corey Joseph
SG: Justin Holiday
SF: DeMarre Carroll
PF: Kristaps Porzingis
C: Guillermo "Willy" Hernangomez

ROTATION
G: Frank Ntilikina
G: Jamal Crawford
SF: Doug McDermott
F: Juancho Hernangomez
C: Joakim Noah

BENCH
PG: Jose Calderon
SG: Demyean Dotson
SF: Richard Jefferson
F/C: Luis Scola
C: Alexis Ajinca

Payroll: $87 million (Justin Holiday retained to a 2yr/$12 million as opposed to current 2yr/$9 million; Luis Scola signed to a 1yr/$4 million deal)

ASSET CACHE:
2018 CHI Second Round Pick (via OKC)
2019 TOR Second Round Pick (via CLE for Calderon and Jefferson contract dump)
2020 MEM Second Round Pick (via CLE for Calderon and Jefferson contract dump)
$12 million of cap space

Your financial conservatism includes Willy H, who can't carry Kyle O'quinn's jock, let alone Enos Kanter's crutches? The -31 as a starter Willy? And you did research to back this up?

Your financial conservatism includes Joakim Noah and the other Hernangomez? For what exactly? Do you offset your monopoly money approach by giving extra points for social liberalism?

Jose Calderon??? Richard Freakin' Jefferson? Luis Scola?
What the hell are you doing here? Building a better franchise or providing a nursing home for washed up and foreign players while hoping we rape the second round to get the next DLee and Nate Robinson?

You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
BigDaddyG
Posts: 25764
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049

12/15/2017  1:08 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:I love our youth but hate the direction of the team and the culture of our front office. I've wanted to flesh out this position more thoroughly since the end of the offseason but haven't had the time or motivation to do the research to defend it.

And despite our "success" to start the season, I can't help but shake the feeling that we are on a fool's errand that will yield the same results we've experienced before i.e. an overpriced, underachieving and structually flawed team with a superior talent that we run into the ground and inevitably alienate. Why do I feel that way? It's because there is a common theme/thread in which the franchise demonstrates an inability to understand opportunity cost or maintain any degree of patience to develop a cohesive long-term strategy/plan. But this is a point I've touched on in other threads, so I'll just ask this:

Wouldn't a more conservative (financial) approach that yielded something like this be more appealing in the long AND short-term?

STARTERS
PG: Corey Joseph
SG: Justin Holiday
SF: DeMarre Carroll
PF: Kristaps Porzingis
C: Guillermo "Willy" Hernangomez

ROTATION
G: Frank Ntilikina
G: Jamal Crawford
SF: Doug McDermott
F: Juancho Hernangomez
C: Joakim Noah

BENCH
PG: Jose Calderon
SG: Demyean Dotson
SF: Richard Jefferson
F/C: Luis Scola
C: Alexis Ajinca

Payroll: $87 million (Justin Holiday retained to a 2yr/$12 million as opposed to current 2yr/$9 million; Luis Scola signed to a 1yr/$4 million deal)

ASSET CACHE:
2018 CHI Second Round Pick (via OKC)
2019 TOR Second Round Pick (via CLE for Calderon and Jefferson contract dump)
2020 MEM Second Round Pick (via CLE for Calderon and Jefferson contract dump)
$12 million of cap space

I agree. But, to be fair, Perry wasn't here for THJ signing and he did the best he could in the Melo situation. I'll need another season before I start killing the front office. That'll change if we do something stupid like trade for George Hill this season.

But Steve Mills is ultimately the guy with the final say on basketball decisions and acted as such when he signed THJr and Ron Baker getting a feel for the market. So why should I expect different?

I'm hoping Mills "stays in his lane" and allows Perry to manage the team. I've seen nothing to suggest there is a power struggle. I think Mills realizes his limitations as a basketball mind.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Welpee
Posts: 21877
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Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

12/15/2017  7:54 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Why are we killing the front office again? They haven't done anything yet except hit a home run with this Melo trade. We are building a new culture and that's all Perry is talking about. He's not going to flip the roster just to pick up bargain basement talent. We're going to build on the good things we are doing. That's what we should be doing.

Be prepared for a ton of second round exits during KP's prime then. You geniunely woild prefer the current roster as opposed to what I proposed in this thread?

Yes.
Welpee
Posts: 21877
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Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

12/15/2017  7:56 PM
Cartman718 wrote:So......humoring you (thread maker), we'd then take on 2 no-defense playing Hernangomez brothers as opposed to 1, and adding Jose "1st team all defense" Calderon to a bench role that is clearly being filled way better by Sessions.

Add overpriced Carroll and chuckster Crawford to the mix and yes that team should definitely make the NBA finals.
And Corey Joseph...over...Ntilikina if you are going to the youth way...?

The only player that I'd like to bring back is Justin Holiday. His talents are being wasted on that Bulls team and he could do much more damage to other teams in the playoffs for us.

Thats gonna be a hard PASS bruh

+1
Humor Me For A Moment...

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