HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Welpee wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Welpee wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:So an article written before Phil had seen KP is the "proof" that he preferred OK4 to KP - sounds about right.

The article came out in August but the roster Phil put together was done by early January when he traded for Lou and Lance. Seems like most Presidents that knew they might have the #1 pick would put some work in in regards to the top 5 players in the draft but with Phil it was always different. I don't think there is any chance that both KP and Okafor are on the board at 4 but if they were who do you think Phil picks? He told his buddy that he thought Okafor was a more nba ready player than KAT and that the Knicks needed a guy that was ready.

Actually weeks leading into the draft all i heard is that Phil was really high on KP and soured on Okafor. Ive been very honest about phils shortcomings but he also did good things and having faith in KP was certainly his best decision

We also heard Phil was high on taking Kaminsky too which (if true) would be an indication that he may not have been completely sold on KP. The reality is we'll probably never really know. Even if Phil didn't want KP over Okafor no way he'd admit to it today.

He made the final call and drafted KP over Kaminsky nothing else really matters. Phil was supposedly high on Caulie-Stein as well. He could have been high on Okafor then became blown away with KP during the private workouts. The opinion at the draft after due diligence is done holds more weight then opinions weeks or months prior. And nobody will know what Phil's final opinion was at the draft. But we do know that KP was drafted by the Knicks and Knicks didn't trade down, didn't trade KP away for another player in a draft and trade etc etc.

Phil might have been high on Dennis Smith jr. Then Smith refused to release his medical history.

Its rare execs get held accountable for intentions over final results. Im sure Phil's intentions were to win in NY. His results didn't show an he eventually was let go. Phil's intentions may have been to draft Okafor. But he ended up with KP and will receive the credit.

On a similar yet separate topic. Jerry West didn't want to draft Magic Johnson because he was scared that he couldn't shoot. Wanted to take some other guard I believe. But the owner forced his hand since Magic was Magic. They say West would never admit it though. Heard this on the radio a couple of days ago. When they were discussing Magic drafting Lonzo Ball and his inability to shoot.

What we will never know for sure is what Phil would've done is Okafor and KP were both on the board. Given Phil's track record it would totally not surprise me if he would've gone Okafor.

His track record is KP and Frank. He has no track record prior in terms of drafting lottery talent as a President if operations. Then again he may have been the driving force behind drafting Andrew Bynum #10 for the Lakers. That would be a possibility. (Thinking out loud)

People forget Phil's long Knick track record as executive. True he/Gaines signed KP. Frank is developing nicely but yet to be considered a great pick among the 2017 draft class.

For me, the problem with Phil has alwasy been his determination to bring back his legacy(Triangle). Regardless of the reality of what the Knicks were and where the NBA was heading. Dont really blame him for wanting to prove it was him and not all those HOF players that made the difference in winning his championships. But no one can deny that most of his decisions were based on the Triangle and not on how we can win more games or get the best players available. For me, it was a flawed and antiquated approach wiht no foresight. The only plus side is that it resulted in a lot of losing and better draft positions.

But you definately have to put KP and Frank on the plus side, However, if you look at his time here, you have to put most of his signings, hired coaches and draft picks as a failure. Most due to the need for them to fit the Triangle mold. This will be his NY failure/legacy. IMO

Here is his full record.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/jacksph99x.html

By track record we were talking about his preference when drafting. Even so, none of his moves prior demonstrate that he would prefer Okafor over KP. As prior to drafting KP he never targeted an Okafor type of player.

Welpee wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Welpee wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Welpee wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Welpee wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:So an article written before Phil had seen KP is the "proof" that he preferred OK4 to KP - sounds about right.

The article came out in August but the roster Phil put together was done by early January when he traded for Lou and Lance. Seems like most Presidents that knew they might have the #1 pick would put some work in in regards to the top 5 players in the draft but with Phil it was always different. I don't think there is any chance that both KP and Okafor are on the board at 4 but if they were who do you think Phil picks? He told his buddy that he thought Okafor was a more nba ready player than KAT and that the Knicks needed a guy that was ready.

Actually weeks leading into the draft all i heard is that Phil was really high on KP and soured on Okafor. Ive been very honest about phils shortcomings but he also did good things and having faith in KP was certainly his best decision

We also heard Phil was high on taking Kaminsky too which (if true) would be an indication that he may not have been completely sold on KP. The reality is we'll probably never really know. Even if Phil didn't want KP over Okafor no way he'd admit to it today.

He made the final call and drafted KP over Kaminsky nothing else really matters. Phil was supposedly high on Caulie-Stein as well. He could have been high on Okafor then became blown away with KP during the private workouts. The opinion at the draft after due diligence is done holds more weight then opinions weeks or months prior. And nobody will know what Phil's final opinion was at the draft. But we do know that KP was drafted by the Knicks and Knicks didn't trade down, didn't trade KP away for another player in a draft and trade etc etc.

Phil might have been high on Dennis Smith jr. Then Smith refused to release his medical history.

Its rare execs get held accountable for intentions over final results. Im sure Phil's intentions were to win in NY. His results didn't show an he eventually was let go. Phil's intentions may have been to draft Okafor. But he ended up with KP and will receive the credit.

On a similar yet separate topic. Jerry West didn't want to draft Magic Johnson because he was scared that he couldn't shoot. Wanted to take some other guard I believe. But the owner forced his hand since Magic was Magic. They say West would never admit it though. Heard this on the radio a couple of days ago. When they were discussing Magic drafting Lonzo Ball and his inability to shoot.

What we will never know for sure is what Phil would've done is Okafor and KP were both on the board. Given Phil's track record it would totally not surprise me if he would've gone Okafor.

His track record is KP and Frank. He has no track record prior in terms of drafting lottery talent as a President if operations. Then again he may have been the driving force behind drafting Andrew Bynum #10 for the Lakers. That would be a possibility. (Thinking out loud)

But...as president it's a known fact he pursued Greg Monroe hard, a big who is VERY similar to Okafor (good low post offensive player, not a rim protector, not known for defense). He allegedly also had interest in Lamarcus Aldridge too but he wasn't an option because he didn't want to play center. Aldridge and Monroe are bigs who are more Okafor-like than KP-like.

One has little to do with the other really. Once KP was drafted, the fact that they were looking for an all star like LMA to play center clearly tells you what they thought about KP. KP due to his shooting is able to complement Monroe style bigs. I am also pretty sure Phil passed on Monroe in order to sign Lopez and Affalo for the same money as he felt that was a better route then putting all the money toward Monroe and having little money left to fill the rest of the needs.

Phil didn't pass on Monroe, Monroe passed on the Knicks. Lopez was pretty much the fall back plan since we struck out on Monroe. My recollection was Phil went after Monroe hard and it came down to us and the Bucks and Monroe chose Milwaukee. Who Phil pursued in free agency is just as (if not more) telling about his personnel preferences than who he drafted.

Again, I'm not convinced in this hypothetical discussion if Phil had both on the board he would've drafted KP over Okafor. Regardless, I'm just glad it turned out the way it did. I guess we should give Jackson credit because he could've draft Hezonja or Kaminsky or Cauley-Stein or Mudiay (the guy I wanted at the time), but he pulled the trigger on the right pick.

I don't remember the details with Monroe to be honest. But I'm pretty sure we didn't get in contact with Monroe's agent. Which sparked Briggs to be pissed that we choose Lopez over Monroe which sparked many threads from Briggs on the topic per usual.

There isn't much to go on to claim he would. All the info given was prior to us even knowing where we would pick. Which was before we ever actually worked out KP and before KP was on most fans minds. The only way to know what Phil would have done is to know what he was thinking after KP was brought in for a work out. And again the fact that they wanted LMA to move over to C for KO says that he wasn't just a guy that they had to settle for. That he was a guy they viewed as a flat out stud.

newyorknewyork wrote:Didn't we offer DeAndre Jordan a max deal as well?

If I recall correctly, we didn't have enough cap space to offer De'Andre or Monroe max. We did meet with Monroe's people, but he thought the Milwaukee situation was more appealing. They had younger talent, an appealing coach in Kidd and a less distractions. Blessing is disguise if you ask me. De'Andre was a pipe dream, but agents always like to throw our names in the mix to create buzz.

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Didn't we offer DeAndre Jordan a max deal as well?

If I recall correctly, we didn't have enough cap space to offer De'Andre or Monroe max. We did meet with Monroe's people, but he thought the Milwaukee situation was more appealing. They had younger talent, an appealing coach in Kidd and a less distractions. Blessing is disguise if you ask me. De'Andre was a pipe dream, but agents always like to throw our names in the mix to create buzz.

Hmm. Monroe may have faired better here. KP and Melo were better compliments to his game than what the Bucks had since they weren't a good shooting team. KP would provide Monroe with a very skilled shooting counterpart opposite from what he worked with in Detroit or Miluakee. Defensively of course Knicks would have struggled but he was a pretty good passes and rebounder post scorer. He may have prevented Phil from being able to sign Noah though most importantly. Though it's still possible he could have been traded to the Bulls for Rose straight up.

Nalod wrote:Phil met with Monroe, never offered him a deal. No drama, no negligence.

His agent, David Falk, told the News that all four teams that met with Monroe in free agency — including the Knicks, Lakers and Blazers — were offering max deals for any number of years desired. In the end, Falk said, the decision was centered on Milwaukee’s position as an emerging contender in the Eastern Conference.

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:Phil met with Monroe, never offered him a deal. No drama, no negligence.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/greg-monroe-agent-explain-chose-bucks-knicks-article-1.2415063

His agent, David Falk, told the News that all four teams that met with Monroe in free agency — including the Knicks, Lakers and Blazers — were offering max deals for any number of years desired. In the end, Falk said, the decision was centered on Milwaukee’s position as an emerging contender in the Eastern Conference.

You may be right in this aspect. Though there has to be a reason why its not common knowledge. Because I have absolutely read what Nalod stated before. So some type of info had to have come out stating so. I did look up an article that stated that Knicks met with Monroe and they aren't sure if an offer was made or not. But I doubt that was it.
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-knicks/post/_/id/62459/knicks-meet-with-pistons-greg-monroe

But besides that, the notion that being interested in Monroe tells us that he preferred Okafor over KP doesn't really fit. If Monroe was the target it actually builds a better case to why he would want KP at the draft then Monroe in FA. Monroe was also the most realistic FA target whose side expressed the most interest toward throughout the season NYK. That probably had more to do with why he was targeted then style of play. Phil signed Robin Lopez who we wouldn't claim is a similar player to Monroe. If Phil was only looking for a certain style then Lopez isn't signed for 4 yrs 14mil per. Then he followed that up with signing Noah who isn't a Monroe type of center either.

KNICKS
The New York Knicks are outscoring opponents by 0.1 points per 100 possessions this season. That’s the 16th-best net rating in the league.

They’ve outscored opponents by 15.6 points per 100 possessions in the 165 minutes Kristaps Porzingis and Frank Ntilikina have shared the floor.

Nalod wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:Phil met with Monroe, never offered him a deal. No drama, no negligence.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/greg-monroe-agent-explain-chose-bucks-knicks-article-1.2415063

His agent, David Falk, told the News that all four teams that met with Monroe in free agency — including the Knicks, Lakers and Blazers — were offering max deals for any number of years desired. In the end, Falk said, the decision was centered on Milwaukee’s position as an emerging contender in the Eastern Conference.

A couple of sources refuted that in this article:

http://uproxx.com/dimemag/greg-monroe-max-contract-milwaukee-bucks-2015-nba-free-agency/

Conflicting news after earlier reports said the Knicks and not offered Monroe the max. Former New York Times beat reporter Howard Beck says the Knicks, as well as the Blazers and Lakers, ALL offered Monroe a max deal, but he chose Milwaukee because they’re more playoff ready than the other three.

Perhaps you’re wondering why the Knicks lost out on Monroe, after many predicted they were the front-runners for the lefty forward with the deft touch around the rim. Even though New York reached an agreement with Arron Afflalo, USA Today scribe Jeff Zillgitt reports the Knicks did not offer him the max.

In the end he was not known to be good rebounder but perhaps his salary would have “Boxed out” the future signing if Noah!!!

Ira wrote:That's an incredible stat.

It is indeed, but it would be adequate to also have the same statistic when Porzingis is on the floor without Frank.