CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:If Phil was so high on Okafor, why is that since Okafor has been on the trade block the last 2 years, that Phil didn't try to get him even once? If you're truly in love with a player, you see that player available in the future, you go grab him right away. Phil almost always takes the advice of Gaines, and Gaines is the one that sold him on KP. I don't get this inability to give Phil Jackson any credit for the moves he made that set the team up for a long time. KP, Frank, even role players like Lance, Ron, CLee. Willy was drafted in the second round, and is a solid trade asset if we decide to not keep him (but we should).

You can be bad at trades but still do good elsewhere. Jackson screwed up some trades, but drafting and longterm wise he set the Knicks up big time. We made out like bandits, considering we never really had a top 1 or 2 pick or were able to draft every single year up there. For all the talk about the young Lakers team we beat a few days ago, you look at where they drafted every year to get those guys. And in KP/Frank/Willy we have something to combat what they have despite not even having close to the same draft position or volume of picks. Come on, only a Phil hater wouldn't see the good he did in NY. There was bad, but there was definitely some good, especially for the longterm.

His quote is what he said in his interview with his buddy before the draft. Maybe he acquired so many centers that he had his fill when Okafor became available in a trade. Okafor had already been picked when the Knick's picked at 4 and KP probably is off the board if Okafor is there. The Knicks got the right guy and that is what matters big picture. Winning those last few games in 15 put the Knicks in a position where KP was the best guy available and Phil's fondness for an nba ready post player couldn't get in the way of the advice of his top scout.

BigDaddyG wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:If Phil was so high on Okafor, why is that since Okafor has been on the trade block the last 2 years, that Phil didn't try to get him even once? If you're truly in love with a player, you see that player available in the future, you go grab him right away. Phil almost always takes the advice of Gaines, and Gaines is the one that sold him on KP. I don't get this inability to give Phil Jackson any credit for the moves he made that set the team up for a long time. KP, Frank, even role players like Lance, Ron, CLee. Willy was drafted in the second round, and is a solid trade asset if we decide to not keep him (but we should).

You can be bad at trades but still do good elsewhere. Jackson screwed up some trades, but drafting and longterm wise he set the Knicks up big time. We made out like bandits, considering we never really had a top 1 or 2 pick or were able to draft every single year up there. For all the talk about the young Lakers team we beat a few days ago, you look at where they drafted every year to get those guys. And in KP/Frank/Willy we have something to combat what they have despite not even having close to the same draft position or volume of picks. Come on, only a Phil hater wouldn't see the good he did in NY. There was bad, but there was definitely some good, especially for the longterm.

His quote is what he said in his interview with his buddy before the draft. Maybe he acquired so many centers that he had his fill when Okafor became available in a trade. Okafor had already been picked when the Knick's picked at 4 and KP probably is off the board if Okafor is there. The Knicks got the right guy and that is what matters big picture. Winning those last few games in 15 put the Knicks in a position where KP was the best guy available and Phil's fondness for an nba ready post player couldn't get in the way of the advice of his top scout.

You know how pre-draft workouts are. Nothing but smokescreens. Who knows what's real or not? One of the things Phil did right was plug the leaks coming from the top.

meloshouldgo wrote:So an article written before Phil had seen KP is the "proof" that he preferred OK4 to KP - sounds about right.

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:So an article written before Phil had seen KP is the "proof" that he preferred OK4 to KP - sounds about right.

The article came out in August but the roster Phil put together was done by early January when he traded for Lou and Lance. Seems like most Presidents that knew they might have the #1 pick would put some work in in regards to the top 5 players in the draft but with Phil it was always different. I don't think there is any chance that both KP and Okafor are on the board at 4 but if they were who do you think Phil picks? He told his buddy that he thought Okafor was a more nba ready player than KAT and that the Knicks needed a guy that was ready.

The point is it's irrelevant what you think. It's still conjecture. People promoting conjecture as fact typically have an agenda to push.

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:So an article written before Phil had seen KP is the "proof" that he preferred OK4 to KP - sounds about right.

The article came out in August but the roster Phil put together was done by early January when he traded for Lou and Lance. Seems like most Presidents that knew they might have the #1 pick would put some work in in regards to the top 5 players in the draft but with Phil it was always different. I don't think there is any chance that both KP and Okafor are on the board at 4 but if they were who do you think Phil picks? He told his buddy that he thought Okafor was a more nba ready player than KAT and that the Knicks needed a guy that was ready.

By that logic alone the Knicks would not have drafted KP at 4 regardless of who was on the board.

Lots of teams would have traded with the Knicks and given them a NBA ready player. Knicks KNEW KP was 3-4 years away at the time.

Phil has stated on numerous occasions that he’s not good at evaluating raw talent and that is why he leans on his scouts. He particularly trusted Gaines! There’s no way he would ignore Gaines if he was arguing so effusively for KP! Gaines said he’d take KP #1.

Welpee wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:So an article written before Phil had seen KP is the "proof" that he preferred OK4 to KP - sounds about right.

The article came out in August but the roster Phil put together was done by early January when he traded for Lou and Lance. Seems like most Presidents that knew they might have the #1 pick would put some work in in regards to the top 5 players in the draft but with Phil it was always different. I don't think there is any chance that both KP and Okafor are on the board at 4 but if they were who do you think Phil picks? He told his buddy that he thought Okafor was a more nba ready player than KAT and that the Knicks needed a guy that was ready.

Actually weeks leading into the draft all i heard is that Phil was really high on KP and soured on Okafor. Ive been very honest about phils shortcomings but he also did good things and having faith in KP was certainly his best decision

We also heard Phil was high on taking Kaminsky too which (if true) would be an indication that he may not have been completely sold on KP. The reality is we'll probably never really know. Even if Phil didn't want KP over Okafor no way he'd admit to it today.

He made the final call and drafted KP over Kaminsky nothing else really matters. Phil was supposedly high on Caulie-Stein as well. He could have been high on Okafor then became blown away with KP during the private workouts. The opinion at the draft after due diligence is done holds more weight then opinions weeks or months prior. And nobody will know what Phil's final opinion was at the draft. But we do know that KP was drafted by the Knicks and Knicks didn't trade down, didn't trade KP away for another player in a draft and trade etc etc.

Phil might have been high on Dennis Smith jr. Then Smith refused to release his medical history.

Its rare execs get held accountable for intentions over final results. Im sure Phil's intentions were to win in NY. His results didn't show an he eventually was let go. Phil's intentions may have been to draft Okafor. But he ended up with KP and will receive the credit.

On a similar yet separate topic. Jerry West didn't want to draft Magic Johnson because he was scared that he couldn't shoot. Wanted to take some other guard I believe. But the owner forced his hand since Magic was Magic. They say West would never admit it though. Heard this on the radio a couple of days ago. When they were discussing Magic drafting Lonzo Ball and his inability to shoot.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Welpee wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:So an article written before Phil had seen KP is the "proof" that he preferred OK4 to KP - sounds about right.

The article came out in August but the roster Phil put together was done by early January when he traded for Lou and Lance. Seems like most Presidents that knew they might have the #1 pick would put some work in in regards to the top 5 players in the draft but with Phil it was always different. I don't think there is any chance that both KP and Okafor are on the board at 4 but if they were who do you think Phil picks? He told his buddy that he thought Okafor was a more nba ready player than KAT and that the Knicks needed a guy that was ready.

Actually weeks leading into the draft all i heard is that Phil was really high on KP and soured on Okafor. Ive been very honest about phils shortcomings but he also did good things and having faith in KP was certainly his best decision

We also heard Phil was high on taking Kaminsky too which (if true) would be an indication that he may not have been completely sold on KP. The reality is we'll probably never really know. Even if Phil didn't want KP over Okafor no way he'd admit to it today.

He made the final call and drafted KP over Kaminsky nothing else really matters. Phil was supposedly high on Caulie-Stein as well. He could have been high on Okafor then became blown away with KP during the private workouts. The opinion at the draft after due diligence is done holds more weight then opinions weeks or months prior. And nobody will know what Phil's final opinion was at the draft. But we do know that KP was drafted by the Knicks and Knicks didn't trade down, didn't trade KP away for another player in a draft and trade etc etc.

Phil might have been high on Dennis Smith jr. Then Smith refused to release his medical history.

Its rare execs get held accountable for intentions over final results. Im sure Phil's intentions were to win in NY. His results didn't show an he eventually was let go. Phil's intentions may have been to draft Okafor. But he ended up with KP and will receive the credit.

On a similar yet separate topic. Jerry West didn't want to draft Magic Johnson because he was scared that he couldn't shoot. Wanted to take some other guard I believe. But the owner forced his hand since Magic was Magic. They say West would never admit it though. Heard this on the radio a couple of days ago. When they were discussing Magic drafting Lonzo Ball and his inability to shoot.

la dah dat dat dat dat......
Phil was gonna draft Oka4, but Hinkie got high......
Thought his big butt would be the reason why......
Hickie smoked the process which is why thought he's the guy......
he got draft high, he got draft high, draft high......

la dah dat dat dat dat......

Phil was gonna draft Russell but Jimmy Buss got high.....
Showtime and hot sister is the reason why....
Jimmy ain't his dad or Phil and he gonna cry.....
he got draft high, he got draft high, draft high......

la dah dat dat dat dat......

Phil was going to trade KP but then he got high......
Was offended, pretended and not relented and never say die...
Mills went to dolan and told him dudes nuts and that ain't no lie......
Then they got high, then they got high, then they got high........

la dah dat dat dat dat......

Phil, Hinkie and Jimmy are not working and they getting high...
Flip Drated Towns but got sick and then he would die.....
OKa4 and Russell are Nets and thats not SY-FI........
KP is the guy, KP is the Guy, KP is the guys......

la dah dat dat dat dat......

Nalod wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Welpee wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:So an article written before Phil had seen KP is the "proof" that he preferred OK4 to KP - sounds about right.

The article came out in August but the roster Phil put together was done by early January when he traded for Lou and Lance. Seems like most Presidents that knew they might have the #1 pick would put some work in in regards to the top 5 players in the draft but with Phil it was always different. I don't think there is any chance that both KP and Okafor are on the board at 4 but if they were who do you think Phil picks? He told his buddy that he thought Okafor was a more nba ready player than KAT and that the Knicks needed a guy that was ready.

Actually weeks leading into the draft all i heard is that Phil was really high on KP and soured on Okafor. Ive been very honest about phils shortcomings but he also did good things and having faith in KP was certainly his best decision

We also heard Phil was high on taking Kaminsky too which (if true) would be an indication that he may not have been completely sold on KP. The reality is we'll probably never really know. Even if Phil didn't want KP over Okafor no way he'd admit to it today.

He made the final call and drafted KP over Kaminsky nothing else really matters. Phil was supposedly high on Caulie-Stein as well. He could have been high on Okafor then became blown away with KP during the private workouts. The opinion at the draft after due diligence is done holds more weight then opinions weeks or months prior. And nobody will know what Phil's final opinion was at the draft. But we do know that KP was drafted by the Knicks and Knicks didn't trade down, didn't trade KP away for another player in a draft and trade etc etc.

Phil might have been high on Dennis Smith jr. Then Smith refused to release his medical history.

Its rare execs get held accountable for intentions over final results. Im sure Phil's intentions were to win in NY. His results didn't show an he eventually was let go. Phil's intentions may have been to draft Okafor. But he ended up with KP and will receive the credit.

On a similar yet separate topic. Jerry West didn't want to draft Magic Johnson because he was scared that he couldn't shoot. Wanted to take some other guard I believe. But the owner forced his hand since Magic was Magic. They say West would never admit it though. Heard this on the radio a couple of days ago. When they were discussing Magic drafting Lonzo Ball and his inability to shoot.

la dah dat dat dat dat......
Phil was gonna draft Oka4, but Hinkie got high......
Thought his big butt would be the reason why......
Hickie smoked the process which is why thought he's the guy......
he got draft high, he got draft high, draft high......

la dah dat dat dat dat......

Phil was gonna draft Russell but Jimmy Buss got high.....
Showtime and hot sister is the reason why....
Jimmy ain't his dad or Phil and he gonna cry.....
he got draft high, he got draft high, draft high......

la dah dat dat dat dat......

Phil was going to trade KP but then he got high......
Was offended, pretended and not relented and never say die...
Mills went to dolan and told him dudes nuts and that ain't no lie......
Then they got high, then they got high, then they got high........

la dah dat dat dat dat......

Phil, Hinkie and Jimmy are not working and they getting high...
Flip Drated Towns but got sick and then he would die.....
OKa4 and Russell are Nets and thats not SY-FI........
KP is the guy, KP is the Guy, KP is the guys......

la dah dat dat dat dat......

Is weed legal yet in NC? Feel like you are on the cutting edge there

newyorknewyork wrote:

Welpee wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Welpee wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:So an article written before Phil had seen KP is the "proof" that he preferred OK4 to KP - sounds about right.

The article came out in August but the roster Phil put together was done by early January when he traded for Lou and Lance. Seems like most Presidents that knew they might have the #1 pick would put some work in in regards to the top 5 players in the draft but with Phil it was always different. I don't think there is any chance that both KP and Okafor are on the board at 4 but if they were who do you think Phil picks? He told his buddy that he thought Okafor was a more nba ready player than KAT and that the Knicks needed a guy that was ready.

Actually weeks leading into the draft all i heard is that Phil was really high on KP and soured on Okafor. Ive been very honest about phils shortcomings but he also did good things and having faith in KP was certainly his best decision

We also heard Phil was high on taking Kaminsky too which (if true) would be an indication that he may not have been completely sold on KP. The reality is we'll probably never really know. Even if Phil didn't want KP over Okafor no way he'd admit to it today.

He made the final call and drafted KP over Kaminsky nothing else really matters. Phil was supposedly high on Caulie-Stein as well. He could have been high on Okafor then became blown away with KP during the private workouts. The opinion at the draft after due diligence is done holds more weight then opinions weeks or months prior. And nobody will know what Phil's final opinion was at the draft. But we do know that KP was drafted by the Knicks and Knicks didn't trade down, didn't trade KP away for another player in a draft and trade etc etc.

Phil might have been high on Dennis Smith jr. Then Smith refused to release his medical history.

Its rare execs get held accountable for intentions over final results. Im sure Phil's intentions were to win in NY. His results didn't show an he eventually was let go. Phil's intentions may have been to draft Okafor. But he ended up with KP and will receive the credit.

On a similar yet separate topic. Jerry West didn't want to draft Magic Johnson because he was scared that he couldn't shoot. Wanted to take some other guard I believe. But the owner forced his hand since Magic was Magic. They say West would never admit it though. Heard this on the radio a couple of days ago. When they were discussing Magic drafting Lonzo Ball and his inability to shoot.

What we will never know for sure is what Phil would've done is Okafor and KP were both on the board. Given Phil's track record it would totally not surprise me if he would've gone Okafor.

His track record is KP and Frank. He has no track record prior in terms of drafting lottery talent as a President if operations. Then again he may have been the driving force behind drafting Andrew Bynum #10 for the Lakers. That would be a possibility. (Thinking out loud)