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knickstorrents
Posts: 21121 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/23/2010 Member: #3050 Hong Kong |
12/11/2017 12:59 PM
Frank was handing off the ball too early vs. Atlanta and was too hesitant on drives. But he was pretty good defensively, and those France highlights do show that he can be aggressive. Give him some time to acclimate to the speed and physicality of the NBA. Stay the course. Winning a championship is a marathon not a sprint.
Rose is not the answer.
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knicks1248
Posts: 42059 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #582 |
12/11/2017 1:23 PM
He is not going to be a scoring pg at any point in his career, He will definitely be more balance, im thinking a George hill/shawn Livingston type. it also depends on the system he is in, the players on the roster, and the coaching staff.
ES
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WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 6/28/2014 Member: #5843 |
12/11/2017 1:42 PM
Besides being only 19, it is also clear that in terms of physical development he was behind most of the players in the draft.
I see him on the sideline and look at his face and body and sometimes think about how it is easy it is to imagine him playing on a New York City HS team at this very moment. Physically, he is the equivalent of KP as a rookie. KP still has a way to go in terms of strength, but you can already see him filling out and showing more toughness as a player. The same will happen with Frank. You already know 2 things about Frank... 1) He can play D...but more importantly, he wants to play D. 2) He is a pass-first PG, who has yet to develop a "selfish" attitude that all the great PGs flash at times when their teams need them. You have seen him become more relaxed as a jump shooter, yet even now you can almost see him thinking of the shot, and usually passing on it, even though those of us who are watching the games see them as good shots to take. You have seen him go to the basket more often, BUT he still seems to go to the basket thinking pass first, and not looking to score and THEN passing off after his sees his shot is not there. He still gets caught up making those foolish high post entry passes to KP...just like Baker and other PGs last year used to do with Melo. It becomes too automatic and teams anticipate and steal the pass. Very frustrating, but it has as much to do with what Hornacek wants to do as anything else. I hate having KP get the ball 20 ft from the basket and having him do the Melo 1/1 thing- makes no sense to me.
Time will tell all, but down the road, most around here will feel differently about Ntilikina once he fully matures. EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
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Uptown
Posts: 30878 Alba Posts: 3 Joined: 4/1/2008 Member: #1883 |
12/11/2017 1:59 PM
Frank is a system-oriented guard and I see now why phil wanted to draft him. Calling him a system-oriented gaurd is not knock, it just is what it is. He is a ball mover...Frank rarely if ever will improvise or break a play because he see's something he can exploit in the defense; whether it be taking a weak defender one on one, PNR, getting into the teeth of the defense for a drive and kick or drive and draw two defenders and drop it off to a big or even nailing a floater which is a shot all point guards must have in their bag of tricks.
Frank may never be that guy that will lives in the paint and thats fine depending on the type of team he has around him. One strength he does have is he is disruptive on the defensive end. Defense is definitely his calling card and a big piece to have when trying to build a winner. I feel like if Frank is going to be the future at the point, we may need another playmaker to play alongside him at the 2 or 3....But all in all, he's progressing... |
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martin
Posts: 68680 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
12/11/2017 2:17 PM
Uptown wrote:Frank is a system-oriented guard and I see now why phil wanted to draft him. Calling him a system-oriented gaurd is not knock, it just is what it is. He is a ball mover...Frank rarely if ever will improvise or break a play because he see's something he can exploit in the defense; whether it be taking a weak defender one on one, PNR, getting into the teeth of the defense for a drive and kick or drive and draw two defenders and drop it off to a big or even nailing a floater which is a shot all point guards must have in their bag of tricks. My opinion is a tweak on the above. Frank has so far grown up in a system-oriented environment and has yet to break out of the mold. I feel like he has enough capabilities to get to rim, break out of system and do his own thing but is still acclimating to NBA, his own abilities/body and years of having to ONLY run the plays the coach calls for. He will never be an explosive guard ala Wall, Lillard, etc. but has enough to make him dangerous off the dribble. Next 2 years will be very telling about the rest of his career. If he doesn't come back from Summer with at least 1 big change in game, then we should be worries. Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 6/28/2014 Member: #5843 |
12/11/2017 2:26 PM
martin wrote:Uptown wrote:Frank is a system-oriented guard and I see now why phil wanted to draft him. Calling him a system-oriented gaurd is not knock, it just is what it is. He is a ball mover...Frank rarely if ever will improvise or break a play because he see's something he can exploit in the defense; whether it be taking a weak defender one on one, PNR, getting into the teeth of the defense for a drive and kick or drive and draw two defenders and drop it off to a big or even nailing a floater which is a shot all point guards must have in their bag of tricks. Needs a good floater and has to make better use of the backboard at times. Maybe Clyde can work with him on posting up smaller guards from the 5-10 ft range. EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
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martin
Posts: 68680 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
12/11/2017 2:32 PM
I like this:
Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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martin
Posts: 68680 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
12/11/2017 2:34 PM
Draymond Green came into the league at 22. Was AWFUL offensively. At 23 averaged 6.2PPG playing 20 minutes a game while shooting ~41%.
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newyorknewyork
Posts: 29863 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #541 |
12/11/2017 2:39 PM
Uptown wrote:Frank is a system-oriented guard and I see now why phil wanted to draft him. Calling him a system-oriented gaurd is not knock, it just is what it is. He is a ball mover...Frank rarely if ever will improvise or break a play because he see's something he can exploit in the defense; whether it be taking a weak defender one on one, PNR, getting into the teeth of the defense for a drive and kick or drive and draw two defenders and drop it off to a big or even nailing a floater which is a shot all point guards must have in their bag of tricks. What I always liked about Frank as a prospect though is that he could probably play in any system. And play multiple positions with that system as he matures. You look at the funky lineups GS is throwing out there or other NBA teams are throwing out there. And players like Frank are what the new MBA is gonna be all about . He can offer a lot of flexibility. Dennis Shroerder is a good PG in this league. But in the end there is only one way you could really utilize him. Same for Jeff Teague prior. Dating back to since he was 17. He has played pro ball vs grown men. In an environment where young players don't get burn as head coaches are looking to win. A game that differs from the American style of game. So he is doing probably doing what coach ask him to do in order to get playing time because that's what he knows to do based off his pro experience in France. Play conservative to avoid mistakes so that coach doesn't lose patience and takes away his PT. Eventually Frank will be a veteran on the team. Where he is no longer the young guy trying to earn the respect of his older vets and coaches. Where he has built up equity. Where he is also physically up to par with his comp. I could see him completely come out of his shell when this happens. Usually it's the opposite where a kid has been the star of his team since middle school/high school. Where he was the more physically gifted player. Who has to learn to play a role in the beginning and learn how to play without having high usage. https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
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WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 6/28/2014 Member: #5843 |
12/11/2017 2:44 PM
martin wrote:I like this:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: Knicks' fans...patience...That is asking a lot of many of us. EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
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BigDaddyG
Posts: 37559 Alba Posts: 9 Joined: 1/22/2010 Member: #3049 |
12/11/2017 2:53 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:martin wrote:Uptown wrote:Frank is a system-oriented guard and I see now why phil wanted to draft him. Calling him a system-oriented gaurd is not knock, it just is what it is. He is a ball mover...Frank rarely if ever will improvise or break a play because he see's something he can exploit in the defense; whether it be taking a weak defender one on one, PNR, getting into the teeth of the defense for a drive and kick or drive and draw two defenders and drop it off to a big or even nailing a floater which is a shot all point guards must have in their bag of tricks. Frank has shown a floater in Europe and he attempted one last night. The more the season goes on, the more elements of his game come up. I'd like to see him develop a post game against smaller guys to. But as you mentioned earlier, a lot of that will be speed up by is physical development. He's still going against men, regardless of how small they are. Some of these guys, even "scrubs" have had year to get their body ready for the NBA level. Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right.
- The Tick
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GustavBahler
Posts: 41138 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
12/11/2017 2:58 PM
martin wrote:I like this:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates. |
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martin
Posts: 68680 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
12/11/2017 3:19 PM
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:I like this:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: eh, that's a thin slice of differentiating. Aggressiveness/ability, those guys are now known for their scoring and absolute ability to get to rim and put ball in basket and not even worry about running offense/setting up teammates. Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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BigDaddyG
Posts: 37559 Alba Posts: 9 Joined: 1/22/2010 Member: #3049 |
12/11/2017 3:20 PM
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:I like this:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: It's not the end all, be all. We already have a guy capable of drawing double teams, which serves the same purpose. They're are different types of PGs and they've had varying degrees of success. I've used this example a number of times, but Mark Jackson couldn't consistently get to the room in the half court. That's why he developed the floater. That said, I think Frank is showing signs of being able to penetrate. I'd rather have this situation than a 🌹 situation. What good is penetration ability if you can't see the floor. Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right.
- The Tick
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
12/11/2017 3:23 PM
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:I like this:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: Frank LITERALLY plays like a Triangle PG. In the Triangle there aren't a lot of Freelance Penetration opportunities due to the spacing and that is by design. In the Triangle Frank would be doing EXACTLY what he's been doing so far. That said, he's got more ability to grow beyond those restrictions and so far he's slowly starting to recognize when to be aggressive and look to exploit openings. Frank IMO is going to be just fine. He's not going to transform into something he's not. IMO he's going to learn what he's best suited to do by trial and error. He's capable of playing SG so we see Jeff has no problem playing him with another PG. Jeff used Frank, Jack and Baker at one point. |
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GustavBahler
Posts: 41138 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
12/11/2017 3:25 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:I like this:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: Obviously dont want a ball hog like Rose. At the same time, you dont want any PG to be at the bottom of the league in getting to the rim. Im not expecting Frank to be Kyrie, or Wall, but he has to drive enough to keep the defense honest enough to give our shooters some room to operate. |
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Nalod
Posts: 68682 Alba Posts: 154 Joined: 12/24/2003 Member: #508 USA |
12/11/2017 3:31 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:martin wrote:I like this:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: Its easy to watch and say "he needs to......." Suggestion: get real. |
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martin
Posts: 68680 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
12/11/2017 3:36 PM
Nalod wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:martin wrote:I like this:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: Are you suggesting that Dennis Smith should go to the G-League for some games so that he can improve his defense Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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GustavBahler
Posts: 41138 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
12/11/2017 3:38 PM
Nalod wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:martin wrote:I like this:Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: Remember everyone, dont say anything negative about Frank's game. What do you think this is, a basketball message board?? |