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EnySpree
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12/10/2017  3:18 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
awe1028 wrote:My evaluation of Frank: He has been everything I expected him to be based on his scouting reports.

Strengths
Coming into the draft Frank was said to have 2 strengths: Defensive potential and the ability to run on offense. Through the first 25 games he has shown that as a rookie at age 19 he is already one of the best defensive players in the NBA. With regards to running an offensive, though he could stand to improve he has shown he is already NBA competent in that area.

Weaknesses
Frank's weaknesses were supposed to be a loose handles, dribble penetration and breaking down the defense, reluctance shooting the ball and simply being more consistent with the jumper when he did decide to shoot. So far these have been reflected in his play.

Conclusion
Over the last few games Frank has made a concerted effort to be more aggressive shooting and breaking down the defense and IMHO has shown some improvement. He still has to be more consistent with the jumper and work on his handles but he trending in the right direction and at 19 he has time on his side. Unlike some who are ready to jump ship on Frank after only 25 games I actually see a player with still plenty of upside. Fortunately, Perry and Honacek see that same upside too.

Look at that post up by Frank in the Orlando game he had not shown that before:

https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/937430323528429569


I agree. As for the post, I've seen try to back down guys before and I recall that he did try a similar back to the basket move against Shabazz Napier versus Portland. Napier was able to hold his ground and Frank shot a brick. My main observation is that Frank just needs to get a little stronger, especially in the lower body. Not a surprise. I was looking at Jrue Holidays rookie year #s, because I see some similarities with him and Frank. One thing that stuck out is that Holiday was already 200lbs coming into his rookie year. Frank was listed anywhere 180 to 190.

Weight isn't the answer to everything. Frank has no moves... none in the post or off the dribble. He's gotta keep developing his skill. At 6'5" and his arms you can't really stop him from doing anything... but it's up to Frank to take advantage

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nixluva
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12/10/2017  3:39 PM
EnySpree wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
awe1028 wrote:My evaluation of Frank: He has been everything I expected him to be based on his scouting reports.

Strengths
Coming into the draft Frank was said to have 2 strengths: Defensive potential and the ability to run on offense. Through the first 25 games he has shown that as a rookie at age 19 he is already one of the best defensive players in the NBA. With regards to running an offensive, though he could stand to improve he has shown he is already NBA competent in that area.

Weaknesses
Frank's weaknesses were supposed to be a loose handles, dribble penetration and breaking down the defense, reluctance shooting the ball and simply being more consistent with the jumper when he did decide to shoot. So far these have been reflected in his play.

Conclusion
Over the last few games Frank has made a concerted effort to be more aggressive shooting and breaking down the defense and IMHO has shown some improvement. He still has to be more consistent with the jumper and work on his handles but he trending in the right direction and at 19 he has time on his side. Unlike some who are ready to jump ship on Frank after only 25 games I actually see a player with still plenty of upside. Fortunately, Perry and Honacek see that same upside too.

Look at that post up by Frank in the Orlando game he had not shown that before:

https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/937430323528429569


I agree. As for the post, I've seen try to back down guys before and I recall that he did try a similar back to the basket move against Shabazz Napier versus Portland. Napier was able to hold his ground and Frank shot a brick. My main observation is that Frank just needs to get a little stronger, especially in the lower body. Not a surprise. I was looking at Jrue Holidays rookie year #s, because I see some similarities with him and Frank. One thing that stuck out is that Holiday was already 200lbs coming into his rookie year. Frank was listed anywhere 180 to 190.

Weight isn't the answer to everything. Frank has no moves... none in the post or off the dribble. He's gotta keep developing his skill. At 6'5" and his arms you can't really stop him from doing anything... but it's up to Frank to take advantage


I see the weight issue not so much about just getting heavier but rather more FUNCTIONAL strength and explosion. Frank does need to learn more scoring skills. Spending time in the summer in the U.S. working on those skills would be great for his development. Working on ball skills, change of speed and FINISHING around the basket.
newyorknewyork
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12/10/2017  3:44 PM
He mostly looks to set up the offense and run the offensive sets. Which are usually looking to hit Dougie on a catch and shoot 3 when he's in. He rarely looks for his own offense. Only seems to do so if the defense prevents the offensive play they are running. He has a way better understanding of where his bailouts are which have been evident the last few games how he has been able to find Dougie on the very few times he did drive and kick. Seems like he prefers catch and shoot or only shots if the defense completely sags off him for his own offense over looking to create and force opponents into defensive breakdowns himself which has fans grumbling.

He picks up his dribble a lot. But that kind if seems like its part of the offense as it tends to flow that way. Possible to get into the offensive set.

He has potential in all fields of the game though offensively even if he isn't aggressive enough at the moment. From catch and shoot, to pull ups off the dribble, to penetration, to post up. He looks like he has potential do all these things. The question is what level will he be able to do these things at consistently.

He needs to work on becoming really good with one skill offensively and feed off that. Right now he isn't keen on penetrating a defense so maybe he should focus on his pull ups. Would also like to see Jeff start designating some plays specifically for him. Clearouts with a pick to telling him to go for it and let him learn off that. Have him coming off curls himself for catch and shoot opportunities.

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nixluva
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12/10/2017  3:46 PM
blkexec
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12/10/2017  4:50 PM
JesseDark wrote:At this point he reminds me of Charlie Ward. Still room for growth.

Thats exactly what I said around draft night. He's a Charlie Ward type....but thats his bottom. He has a higher ceiling because of his measurements.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
EnySpree
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12/10/2017  6:14 PM
nixluva wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
awe1028 wrote:My evaluation of Frank: He has been everything I expected him to be based on his scouting reports.

Strengths
Coming into the draft Frank was said to have 2 strengths: Defensive potential and the ability to run on offense. Through the first 25 games he has shown that as a rookie at age 19 he is already one of the best defensive players in the NBA. With regards to running an offensive, though he could stand to improve he has shown he is already NBA competent in that area.

Weaknesses
Frank's weaknesses were supposed to be a loose handles, dribble penetration and breaking down the defense, reluctance shooting the ball and simply being more consistent with the jumper when he did decide to shoot. So far these have been reflected in his play.

Conclusion
Over the last few games Frank has made a concerted effort to be more aggressive shooting and breaking down the defense and IMHO has shown some improvement. He still has to be more consistent with the jumper and work on his handles but he trending in the right direction and at 19 he has time on his side. Unlike some who are ready to jump ship on Frank after only 25 games I actually see a player with still plenty of upside. Fortunately, Perry and Honacek see that same upside too.

Look at that post up by Frank in the Orlando game he had not shown that before:

https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/937430323528429569


I agree. As for the post, I've seen try to back down guys before and I recall that he did try a similar back to the basket move against Shabazz Napier versus Portland. Napier was able to hold his ground and Frank shot a brick. My main observation is that Frank just needs to get a little stronger, especially in the lower body. Not a surprise. I was looking at Jrue Holidays rookie year #s, because I see some similarities with him and Frank. One thing that stuck out is that Holiday was already 200lbs coming into his rookie year. Frank was listed anywhere 180 to 190.

Weight isn't the answer to everything. Frank has no moves... none in the post or off the dribble. He's gotta keep developing his skill. At 6'5" and his arms you can't really stop him from doing anything... but it's up to Frank to take advantage


I see the weight issue not so much about just getting heavier but rather more FUNCTIONAL strength and explosion. Frank does need to learn more scoring skills. Spending time in the summer in the U.S. working on those skills would be great for his development. Working on ball skills, change of speed and FINISHING around the basket.

I get the functional strength thing. Weight doesn't mean strength though. I really don't see his peers man handling him. Frank's problems have everything to do with his game.... It's my wet dream to see this guy snap and just start physically taking advantage of everyone. He's 6'5" but really 6'8" with the arms. If I was him I would make everyone eat my elbows every time I make a move. I'd get fouled every single time then extend and finish with the and one. Frank has to get there somehow

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meloshouldgo
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12/10/2017  6:15 PM
blkexec wrote:
JesseDark wrote:At this point he reminds me of Charlie Ward. Still room for growth.

Thats exactly what I said around draft night. He's a Charlie Ward type....but thats his bottom. He has a higher ceiling because of his measurements.

He has higher ceiling based on high IQ and his ability to disrupt the opposing team's offense.

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awe1028
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12/10/2017  6:15 PM
People keep talking about how many points Donovan Mitchell and Dennis Smith are scoring and overlooking the most important element that Frank brings to the table besides defense and that is his ability to run an offense. Frank is the only point guard of the top tier of the 2017 draft that is pass first and looking first and foremost to run the offense.

As the Knicks continue to add talent, having a point guard who is willing to forgo points in lieu of efficiently orchestrating the offense will become increasingly important. Of course in order to keep defenses honest Frank will have to improve offensively that goes without saying. But if the Knicks can add a defensive demon like Mikal Bridges to our stable of talented 2 way players, with a PG like Frank orchestrating WATCH OUT. The Knicks in couple of years could be a real problem.

I know I am going to be flamed for saying this but the Knicks are headed in the direction of a Spurs type team - not flashy not pretty not many highlight reel plays but gritty plays defense - in short a team that just really knows how to play the game.

I for one am really excited about where the Knicks are headed.
EnySpree
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12/10/2017  6:22 PM
awe1028 wrote:People keep talking about how many points Donovan Mitchell and Dennis Smith are scoring and overlooking the most important element that Frank brings to the table besides defense and that is his ability to run an offense. Frank is the only point guard of the top tier of the 2017 draft that is pass first and looking first and foremost to run the offense.

As the Knicks continue to add talent, having a point guard who is willing to forgo points in lieu of efficiently orchestrating the offense will become increasingly important. Of course in order to keep defenses honest Frank will have to improve offensively that goes without saying. But if the Knicks can add a defensive demon like Mikal Bridges to our stable of talented 2 way players, with a PG like Frank orchestrating WATCH OUT. The Knicks in couple of years could be a real problem.

I know I am going to be flamed for saying this but the Knicks are headed in the direction of a Spurs type team - not flashy not pretty not many highlight reel plays but gritty plays defense - in short a team that just really knows how to play the game.

I for one am really excited about where the Knicks are headed.

I think everyone is agreement here. We all see Frank as good at what he does. We just see another level like you said. Perry wants to build a strong culture. He's not mortgaging the future but he's looking to improve on what we are doing. We will definately become a variation of the Spurs eventually. I just see it happening in 1-2 years not the 3-4 or ****ing 10 years that some guys are saying

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BigDaddyG
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12/10/2017  6:44 PM
nixluva wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
awe1028 wrote:My evaluation of Frank: He has been everything I expected him to be based on his scouting reports.

Strengths
Coming into the draft Frank was said to have 2 strengths: Defensive potential and the ability to run on offense. Through the first 25 games he has shown that as a rookie at age 19 he is already one of the best defensive players in the NBA. With regards to running an offensive, though he could stand to improve he has shown he is already NBA competent in that area.

Weaknesses
Frank's weaknesses were supposed to be a loose handles, dribble penetration and breaking down the defense, reluctance shooting the ball and simply being more consistent with the jumper when he did decide to shoot. So far these have been reflected in his play.

Conclusion
Over the last few games Frank has made a concerted effort to be more aggressive shooting and breaking down the defense and IMHO has shown some improvement. He still has to be more consistent with the jumper and work on his handles but he trending in the right direction and at 19 he has time on his side. Unlike some who are ready to jump ship on Frank after only 25 games I actually see a player with still plenty of upside. Fortunately, Perry and Honacek see that same upside too.

Look at that post up by Frank in the Orlando game he had not shown that before:

https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/937430323528429569


I agree. As for the post, I've seen try to back down guys before and I recall that he did try a similar back to the basket move against Shabazz Napier versus Portland. Napier was able to hold his ground and Frank shot a brick. My main observation is that Frank just needs to get a little stronger, especially in the lower body. Not a surprise. I was looking at Jrue Holidays rookie year #s, because I see some similarities with him and Frank. One thing that stuck out is that Holiday was already 200lbs coming into his rookie year. Frank was listed anywhere 180 to 190.

Weight isn't the answer to everything. Frank has no moves... none in the post or off the dribble. He's gotta keep developing his skill. At 6'5" and his arms you can't really stop him from doing anything... but it's up to Frank to take advantage


I see the weight issue not so much about just getting heavier but rather more FUNCTIONAL strength and explosion. Frank does need to learn more scoring skills. Spending time in the summer in the U.S. working on those skills would be great for his development. Working on ball skills, change of speed and FINISHING around the basket.

Exactly. Added weight/strength weight will help Frank finish, hold, position etc. That will help us his length to his advantage. I wouldn't say Frank has no moves. He has a pull-up, a rudimentary post game and a change of pace dribble already. It's not like Kahwi or Gianni's had a slew of moves their rookie year either.
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TPercy
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12/10/2017  7:00 PM
He is growing on me bit by bit and I think he will get better offensively in the long run. I just need that confidence to keep growing
The Future is Bright!
awe1028
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12/10/2017  8:50 PM
EnySpree wrote:
awe1028 wrote:People keep talking about how many points Donovan Mitchell and Dennis Smith are scoring and overlooking the most important element that Frank brings to the table besides defense and that is his ability to run an offense. Frank is the only point guard of the top tier of the 2017 draft that is pass first and looking first and foremost to run the offense.

As the Knicks continue to add talent, having a point guard who is willing to forgo points in lieu of efficiently orchestrating the offense will become increasingly important. Of course in order to keep defenses honest Frank will have to improve offensively that goes without saying. But if the Knicks can add a defensive demon like Mikal Bridges to our stable of talented 2 way players, with a PG like Frank orchestrating WATCH OUT. The Knicks in couple of years could be a real problem.

I know I am going to be flamed for saying this but the Knicks are headed in the direction of a Spurs type team - not flashy not pretty not many highlight reel plays but gritty plays defense - in short a team that just really knows how to play the game.

I for one am really excited about where the Knicks are headed.

I think everyone is agreement here. We all see Frank as good at what he does. We just see another level like you said. Perry wants to build a strong culture. He's not mortgaging the future but he's looking to improve on what we are doing. We will definately become a variation of the Spurs eventually. I just see it happening in 1-2 years not the 3-4 or ****ing 10 years that some guys are saying


I don't know if the bolded is true. There were guys on here advocating that the Knicks give $90 million to a midget PG with a broken hip just 20 games in to Frank's career. There were others just a few games ago saying Frank had regressed - absolutely and utterly absurd.

If there is any position the Knicks should be focused on it should be small forward. I see the Knicks as being a chain that is only as strong as its weakest link with the weak link being SF. IMHO the Knicks are a legitimate SF and simple experience away from being a perennial play off team battling for a championship. Barring unforeseen circumstances such as injuries or Perry doing something foolish exciting times lay ahead.
Paris907
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12/10/2017  9:28 PM
EnySpree wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
awe1028 wrote:My evaluation of Frank: He has been everything I expected him to be based on his scouting reports.

Strengths
Coming into the draft Frank was said to have 2 strengths: Defensive potential and the ability to run on offense. Through the first 25 games he has shown that as a rookie at age 19 he is already one of the best defensive players in the NBA. With regards to running an offensive, though he could stand to improve he has shown he is already NBA competent in that area.

Weaknesses
Frank's weaknesses were supposed to be a loose handles, dribble penetration and breaking down the defense, reluctance shooting the ball and simply being more consistent with the jumper when he did decide to shoot. So far these have been reflected in his play.

Conclusion
Over the last few games Frank has made a concerted effort to be more aggressive shooting and breaking down the defense and IMHO has shown some improvement. He still has to be more consistent with the jumper and work on his handles but he trending in the right direction and at 19 he has time on his side. Unlike some who are ready to jump ship on Frank after only 25 games I actually see a player with still plenty of upside. Fortunately, Perry and Honacek see that same upside too.

Look at that post up by Frank in the Orlando game he had not shown that before:

https://twitter.com/nyknicks/status/937430323528429569


I agree. As for the post, I've seen try to back down guys before and I recall that he did try a similar back to the basket move against Shabazz Napier versus Portland. Napier was able to hold his ground and Frank shot a brick. My main observation is that Frank just needs to get a little stronger, especially in the lower body. Not a surprise. I was looking at Jrue Holidays rookie year #s, because I see some similarities with him and Frank. One thing that stuck out is that Holiday was already 200lbs coming into his rookie year. Frank was listed anywhere 180 to 190.

Weight isn't the answer to everything. Frank has no moves... none in the post or off the dribble. He's gotta keep developing his skill. At 6'5" and his arms you can't really stop him from doing anything... but it's up to Frank to take advantage

This isn’t a 19 year old freshman out of college. He’s had pro exposure. He will get stronger and hopefully the jumper gets more consistent but can he get to the hoop. Can we see this kidngetting 16-18ppg in 2-3 years. Maybe. If not he’s a rotation player and a stick of dynamite defensively
stanleybostitch
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12/10/2017  11:09 PM
I really liked Frank's play tonight against ATL. Sweet stroke on the 3, driving into the paint (no results yet, but the fact that he has begun driving is great progress), defensive disruption, and overall he looks so much more comfortable now than he did at the start of the season. And we're only at the quarter mark. Frank is the type of player who will improve in a hurry as he gains experience because his bbIQ is so damn high.
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Cartman718
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12/11/2017  9:46 AM
stanleybostitch wrote:I really liked Frank's play tonight against ATL. Sweet stroke on the 3, driving into the paint (no results yet, but the fact that he has begun driving is great progress), defensive disruption, and overall he looks so much more comfortable now than he did at the start of the season. And we're only at the quarter mark. Frank is the type of player who will improve in a hurry as he gains experience because his bbIQ is so damn high.

Agree.

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fishmike
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12/11/2017  10:01 AM
I love the "I still dont think he's worth the 8th pick" crowd still clinging to their draft night drama about how we this will hurt us for years, or how Cuban somehow influenced us to take him so they could get Dennis Smith. So funny. Classic KNick fans.

Its funny how people think he's got offensive issues. He doesnt. Its not even confidence. Its smarts. He's 19. He's working on helping the team WIN, not showing the world how good a scorer he is or can. He's already done that. You all have heard of the McDonalds all American game with the best U18 prospects in the country? Well if there was a tourney like that and everyone played in it it would be the U18 Euros where Frank was MVP.

If you need a refresher about what kind of player Frank will be on offense, and why he was a lottery pick you can see that here:

This is no "raw" athletic prospect. This is a highly skilled young player.

Frank is not limited offensively. He will be just fine. You must remember his culture and where/how he played last year. He's all about zero mistakes and being an impact on defense. That is his role right now. I could not ask more of this kid. He will take more shots when he's believed he's earned them. Now there's a concept!

How many guards are better defensively in the NBA than Frank right now? Honest question. I mean we drafted a kid who's got the chops to be one of, if not THE best defensive guards in the league and this isnt worth the 8th pick?

I have no buyer's regret. I would take Frank again if I got a redo with Mitchell being choice #2.

I think we have a cornerstone player who can anchor a defense on the perimeter and set up teammates. Thats a role player? Maybe a triangle player?

My little favorite thing Frank does? When defenders extend their arm/hand out on defense and he slaps it away. Gets me every time

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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12/11/2017  10:06 AM
Cartman718 wrote:
stanleybostitch wrote:I really liked Frank's play tonight against ATL. Sweet stroke on the 3, driving into the paint (no results yet, but the fact that he has begun driving is great progress), defensive disruption, and overall he looks so much more comfortable now than he did at the start of the season. And we're only at the quarter mark. Frank is the type of player who will improve in a hurry as he gains experience because his bbIQ is so damn high.

Agree.

just look at KP in year 3. Guys need time. I totally agree with this. With Frank and KP's length on the floor you can really start to build a top flight defense.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
GustavBahler
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12/11/2017  11:12 AM
fishmike wrote:I love the "I still dont think he's worth the 8th pick" crowd still clinging to their draft night drama about how we this will hurt us for years, or how Cuban somehow influenced us to take him so they could get Dennis Smith. So funny. Classic KNick fans.

Its funny how people think he's got offensive issues. He doesnt. Its not even confidence. Its smarts. He's 19. He's working on helping the team WIN, not showing the world how good a scorer he is or can. He's already done that. You all have heard of the McDonalds all American game with the best U18 prospects in the country? Well if there was a tourney like that and everyone played in it it would be the U18 Euros where Frank was MVP.

If you need a refresher about what kind of player Frank will be on offense, and why he was a lottery pick you can see that here:

This is no "raw" athletic prospect. This is a highly skilled young player.

Frank is not limited offensively. He will be just fine. You must remember his culture and where/how he played last year. He's all about zero mistakes and being an impact on defense. That is his role right now. I could not ask more of this kid. He will take more shots when he's believed he's earned them. Now there's a concept!

How many guards are better defensively in the NBA than Frank right now? Honest question. I mean we drafted a kid who's got the chops to be one of, if not THE best defensive guards in the league and this isnt worth the 8th pick?

I have no buyer's regret. I would take Frank again if I got a redo with Mitchell being choice #2.

I think we have a cornerstone player who can anchor a defense on the perimeter and set up teammates. Thats a role player? Maybe a triangle player?

My little favorite thing Frank does? When defenders extend their arm/hand out on defense and he slaps it away. Gets me every time

Thats some serious revisionism. Please dont even try.....
Knixkik
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12/11/2017  11:28 AM
stanleybostitch wrote:I really liked Frank's play tonight against ATL. Sweet stroke on the 3, driving into the paint (no results yet, but the fact that he has begun driving is great progress), defensive disruption, and overall he looks so much more comfortable now than he did at the start of the season. And we're only at the quarter mark. Frank is the type of player who will improve in a hurry as he gains experience because his bbIQ is so damn high.

It's easy to see Frank has the potential to be a good offensive player. He's not super explosive, but has long strides and a smoothness that should allow him to find ways to the basket. His jumper is also smooth, and his shooting percentages will sky-rocket when he becomes confident knowing when to shoot. This isn't a Lonzo Ball type shooter. Frank will become a good outside shooter sooner rather than later.
fishmike
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12/11/2017  11:32 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:I love the "I still dont think he's worth the 8th pick" crowd still clinging to their draft night drama about how we this will hurt us for years, or how Cuban somehow influenced us to take him so they could get Dennis Smith. So funny. Classic KNick fans.

Its funny how people think he's got offensive issues. He doesnt. Its not even confidence. Its smarts. He's 19. He's working on helping the team WIN, not showing the world how good a scorer he is or can. He's already done that. You all have heard of the McDonalds all American game with the best U18 prospects in the country? Well if there was a tourney like that and everyone played in it it would be the U18 Euros where Frank was MVP.

If you need a refresher about what kind of player Frank will be on offense, and why he was a lottery pick you can see that here:

This is no "raw" athletic prospect. This is a highly skilled young player.

Frank is not limited offensively. He will be just fine. You must remember his culture and where/how he played last year. He's all about zero mistakes and being an impact on defense. That is his role right now. I could not ask more of this kid. He will take more shots when he's believed he's earned them. Now there's a concept!

How many guards are better defensively in the NBA than Frank right now? Honest question. I mean we drafted a kid who's got the chops to be one of, if not THE best defensive guards in the league and this isnt worth the 8th pick?

I have no buyer's regret. I would take Frank again if I got a redo with Mitchell being choice #2.

I think we have a cornerstone player who can anchor a defense on the perimeter and set up teammates. Thats a role player? Maybe a triangle player?

My little favorite thing Frank does? When defenders extend their arm/hand out on defense and he slaps it away. Gets me every time

Thats some serious revisionism. Please dont even try.....

when is it appropriate to revise? When you have more data. What do you think I am revising though?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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