BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:
where was Kp over the summer, far as hell away from the knicks and came back so much better than the summer before where he took baby steps
THJ, got so much better under the Hawks, (not the knicks), in fact, he got worse his 2nd yr with the knicks to the point when he got traded, the hawks sent him to the d league.

you have someone else you want to name that the knicks developed in the last 10 yrs. They develop Galloway so well that they let him walk for nothing, they just gave up on him. Cmon dude how can you debate this..

Willy followed a similar routine this past summer. What's his excuse?

He did??? All summer long, KP was tweeting weekly updates on his workout regime, I don't recall seeing willy other than the live games.

Besides, Willy's issue is more about effort, toughness and Awareness and getting his perimeter game up on both ends, he already has good foot work, solid post moves and a NBA body.

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I have zero faith in the knicks in developing frank properly, their isn't an once of proof that we can use to show the knicks are capable of developing anyone. We are winning games now on ball movement and better defense, but every game, frank looks worse and worse. Against the Griz, he was the only player with a minus.

He really should be playing garbage minutes until he is more comfortable

Even KP??? Was he not "developed"? Has he not gotten better every season despite the turmoil?
Do you not see a change of culture? Is this why you want Bledsoe, as "Only proven players should be here?"
How does him sitting get him ready to play?
Do you only buy stocks after they go up? Are you incarcerated?

where was Kp over the summer, far as hell away from the knicks and came back so much better than the summer before where he took baby steps

THJ, got so much better under the Hawks, (not the knicks), in fact, he got worse his 2nd yr with the knicks to the point when he got traded, the hawks sent him to the d league.

you have someone else you want to name that the knicks developed in the last 10 yrs. They develop Galloway so well that they let him walk for nothing, they just gave up on him. Cmon dude how can you debate this..

Knicks may have traded away more draft picks than any other team in the NBA(Guessing). The amount of prospects the Knicks have had to work with since 2000 has probably been bottom 5. Young players have not lasted past 2 seasons for the most part on the Knicks. For players that did stick around.

David Lee lasts 5 yrs and turned himself into an all star after being drafted with the last pick in the first round. Was a tweener his rookie yr who wasn't strong enough to play PF. And what do you know Lee statistically looked like a lesser player his 3rd yr than his 2nd yr. Then his 4th he improved much more.

Wilson Chandler lasted 3.5 yrs. Improved gradually from his rookie to 4th yr with the Knicks from a 7pts scorer to a 16pts scorer.

Danilo Gallinari lasted 2.5 granted got injured his rookie yr. Improved drastically from his rookie yr to his sophmore & junior yr.

Nate Robinson lasted 4.5 yrs. Improved from 9pts per game his rookie yr to 17pts per game his 4th with the Knicks.

So yes it is possible for a player if he isn't moved within 2 yrs of being drafted by the Knicks to develop into a quality player. We just haven't been a team that keeps its draft picks.

The Knicks training staff most likely aren't the same people from during that time. But makes the argument null in void to begin with. I think Hardaway jr and KP improved much more because they were entering their 4th and 3rd seasons much more then these other contributing factors you are claiming. Just like how Jr Smith had the best season of his career with the Knicks over his season with Denver & LA. Or how Jamal Crawford became a better player at age 27 with the Knicks then he was at 23 with the Bulls.

nyknickzingis wrote:It's early and a home heavy schedule, but I think with Kanter and Porzingis both in the lineup, we are something like 12-6.

I believe this team has a core with Kanter, KP, Timmy. All three are either an all-star (KP) or very good starter (Kanter/Timmy). With Frank's defensive impact, you have to add him into the mix. From my calculations, the team has been 12-6 when Kanter and KP both start. That's the impact from having two major impact bigs who fit with each other.

Why I'd be ok with losing many games is the draft pick.
However if we win and end up proving to be a playoff or near playoff team, that is also a positive. It shows significant development and that this core can be a playoff team moving forward.

We have some interesting games coming up. Chicago, Atlanta, Lakers, OKC. None of those teams are setting the league on fire or even playoff teams. Lets see what our record is 2 weeks from now. I stick to my feeling. It's sink or swim time. We need to win most of these games against non-playoff teams to have a chance at being good late in the season.

From a long term perspective, I'd be AOK with KP, Kanter, THJr, Jack missing a group of games (and losing them) so that KOQ, Frank, Doug, Dotson, Willy all get consistent minutes to show their stuff. Winning would be VERY nice but Knicks still need 1 more plus player via the draft to put this team into the playoffs/manage cap in a long term meaningful way.

Regarding core: 2 different definitions that I think are floating about. One where you have a group of guys, bench and starters, that have the possibility of sticking together for multiple years and moving the team ahead into a playoff team. OR, core meaning these are guys I can definitely go to battle with long term and they would absolutely be a playoff team shortly (this year and definitely next) and I can also see them being on a deep playoff team long term.

IMHO: First core definition: Kanter, KP, THJr, Lee, Frank, Dotson, Willy. Second core definition: KP, THJr (off bench), maybe Frank/Dotson depending on what they do over next 2 summers.

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:It's early and a home heavy schedule, but I think with Kanter and Porzingis both in the lineup, we are something like 12-6.

I believe this team has a core with Kanter, KP, Timmy. All three are either an all-star (KP) or very good starter (Kanter/Timmy). With Frank's defensive impact, you have to add him into the mix. From my calculations, the team has been 12-6 when Kanter and KP both start. That's the impact from having two major impact bigs who fit with each other.

Why I'd be ok with losing many games is the draft pick.
However if we win and end up proving to be a playoff or near playoff team, that is also a positive. It shows significant development and that this core can be a playoff team moving forward.

We have some interesting games coming up. Chicago, Atlanta, Lakers, OKC. None of those teams are setting the league on fire or even playoff teams. Lets see what our record is 2 weeks from now. I stick to my feeling. It's sink or swim time. We need to win most of these games against non-playoff teams to have a chance at being good late in the season.

From a long term perspective, I'd be AOK with KP, Kanter, THJr, Jack missing a group of games (and losing them) so that KOQ, Frank, Doug, Dotson, Willy all get consistent minutes to show their stuff. Winning would be VERY nice but Knicks still need 1 more plus player via the draft to put this team into the playoffs/manage cap in a long term meaningful way.

Regarding core: 2 different definitions that I think are floating about. One where you have a group of guys, bench and starters, that have the possibility of sticking together for multiple years and moving the team ahead into a playoff team. OR, core meaning these are guys I can definitely go to battle with long term and they would absolutely be a playoff team shortly (this year and definitely next) and I can also see them being on a deep playoff team long term.

IMHO: First core definition: Kanter, KP, THJr, Lee, Frank, Dotson, Willy. Second core definition: KP, THJr (off bench), maybe Frank/Dotson depending on what they do over next 2 summers.

With Frank, you can already see the cerebral quality and if he's looking up to what KP did over the last 2 summers, I think he'd be pretty motivated.
I honestly think it is better to win and see with our newly-gelled management if they can pull of a good FA signing or two. Kanter is fired up to be a Knick. But at the rate he's playing, he will opt out come free agency, it'll reduce the glut we have at center, giving us some $$ to spend.
Perry and Mills drafted a good 2 way player in the second round in Dotson, no reason why we cant do the same mid first round.

The market will dictate if he will opt out. Are there teams that need a big such that he will get a contract that he would want? Or is it better the year after?