fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:his options are going to be very small with almost no team with cap next off season except for the bulls, lakers, and dallas

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2018/

Thank you for breaking this down. This is the type of stuff Briggs and others need to see to realize it's not as black and white as playing well equals a big contract. The market is the biggest factor and right now it appears that it will be in the Knicks' favor, instead of Kanter's.

Kanter is falling n in love with the city. He might be willing to work with the Knicks to get talent here.

I don't mind paying of he keeps up what he is doing consistently. But the Knicks are known for paying way above Market for whoever they have a crush on, example THJR. I will be very upset if we did something stupid like that.

I have yet to see any evidence that THjr is being overpaid. Can you offer any?

Market value isn't determined by comparison, it's determined by what the market is willing to pay for any player at any given time. What teams were bidding for THJRs services and trying to pay anything close to what we offered?

Knixkik wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Kanter has done everything right so far from starting with shedding like 30pds in the offseason . He is earning it. He proves his impact. His attitude is great and necessary.

If we stretch Noah this offseason, renounce Dougies rights, and KOQ opts out. We could free up about 20mil in cap space before counting our draft pick salary. Also matters if Kanter opts out or in. And how much he will command his first yr and he could work it out with the Knicks to take a lower starting salary and have it jump back up. But I don't see any FA this off season worth throwing money at for the other positions of need. That fit our timeline as a long term piece and be a difference maker. The following off season we will have to pay KP so that would be the only real open door to spend in FA. Package that with Willy and one of our 2nd and maybe we can secure a decent player.

If Kanter is the long term option. Then a full court press on moving KOQ & Willy for other needs has to happen. Possible Dougie as well.

I agree about most of these things. We need to move O'Quinn. He is valuable to a contender at his current contract. Willy has to stay, if for anything because he is close with KP. This is all about building around our star player. We have to keep the chemistry strong. Willy will eventually get his rhythm back if he's playing consistent minutes off the bench. The jury is still out on McDermott, it will depend on what he wants for his next contract. Maybe (hopefully) we can keep him, or maybe someone like Dotson can step up and play a similar role off the bench next season. Kanter is proving his value and especially considering his age, he's a must keep. Noah can remain as a 3rd string center, or be stretched only if we need the money for a specific player. That option is there if we need it. This team is being built around KP, Ntilikina, Hardaway, and Kanter for better or for worse, and we need to make every move with that in mind.

what contender?

There's 2 teams who are legit contenders CAVS/GSW, and 3 more potential contenders, spurs, rockets, Celtics. 4 of those teams (Houston, GSW, CAVS, Celtics) would never trade for KOQ because they shoot a 100 3's per game, and the run up and down the court. The spurs have enough bigs, and have no interest in KOQ.

Teams almost always have paths to free agency-- the market will be bigger. It will be a wait and see but his agent isn't going to be taking 3 years 39 mm-- he's going to want 20 mm at a minimum and upward of 25 mm

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Kanter has done everything right so far from starting with shedding like 30pds in the offseason . He is earning it. He proves his impact. His attitude is great and necessary.

If we stretch Noah this offseason, renounce Dougies rights, and KOQ opts out. We could free up about 20mil in cap space before counting our draft pick salary. Also matters if Kanter opts out or in. And how much he will command his first yr and he could work it out with the Knicks to take a lower starting salary and have it jump back up. But I don't see any FA this off season worth throwing money at for the other positions of need. That fit our timeline as a long term piece and be a difference maker. The following off season we will have to pay KP so that would be the only real open door to spend in FA. Package that with Willy and one of our 2nd and maybe we can secure a decent player.

If Kanter is the long term option. Then a full court press on moving KOQ & Willy for other needs has to happen. Possible Dougie as well.

I agree about most of these things. We need to move O'Quinn. He is valuable to a contender at his current contract. Willy has to stay, if for anything because he is close with KP. This is all about building around our star player. We have to keep the chemistry strong. Willy will eventually get his rhythm back if he's playing consistent minutes off the bench. The jury is still out on McDermott, it will depend on what he wants for his next contract. Maybe (hopefully) we can keep him, or maybe someone like Dotson can step up and play a similar role off the bench next season. Kanter is proving his value and especially considering his age, he's a must keep. Noah can remain as a 3rd string center, or be stretched only if we need the money for a specific player. That option is there if we need it. This team is being built around KP, Ntilikina, Hardaway, and Kanter for better or for worse, and we need to make every move with that in mind.

what contender?

There's 2 teams who are legit contenders CAVS/GSW, and 3 more potential contenders, spurs, rockets, Celtics. 4 of those teams (Houston, GSW, CAVS, Celtics) would never trade for KOQ because they shoot a 100 3's per game, and the run up and down the court. The spurs have enough bigs, and have no interest in KOQ.

Cavs, Rockets, and Celtics come to mind as all teams that could use him as a backup 5.

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Kanter has done everything right so far from starting with shedding like 30pds in the offseason . He is earning it. He proves his impact. His attitude is great and necessary.

If we stretch Noah this offseason, renounce Dougies rights, and KOQ opts out. We could free up about 20mil in cap space before counting our draft pick salary. Also matters if Kanter opts out or in. And how much he will command his first yr and he could work it out with the Knicks to take a lower starting salary and have it jump back up. But I don't see any FA this off season worth throwing money at for the other positions of need. That fit our timeline as a long term piece and be a difference maker. The following off season we will have to pay KP so that would be the only real open door to spend in FA. Package that with Willy and one of our 2nd and maybe we can secure a decent player.

If Kanter is the long term option. Then a full court press on moving KOQ & Willy for other needs has to happen. Possible Dougie as well.

I agree about most of these things. We need to move O'Quinn. He is valuable to a contender at his current contract. Willy has to stay, if for anything because he is close with KP. This is all about building around our star player. We have to keep the chemistry strong. Willy will eventually get his rhythm back if he's playing consistent minutes off the bench. The jury is still out on McDermott, it will depend on what he wants for his next contract. Maybe (hopefully) we can keep him, or maybe someone like Dotson can step up and play a similar role off the bench next season. Kanter is proving his value and especially considering his age, he's a must keep. Noah can remain as a 3rd string center, or be stretched only if we need the money for a specific player. That option is there if we need it. This team is being built around KP, Ntilikina, Hardaway, and Kanter for better or for worse, and we need to make every move with that in mind.

what contender?

There's 2 teams who are legit contenders CAVS/GSW, and 3 more potential contenders, spurs, rockets, Celtics. 4 of those teams (Houston, GSW, CAVS, Celtics) would never trade for KOQ because they shoot a 100 3's per game, and the run up and down the court. The spurs have enough bigs, and have no interest in KOQ.

Cavs, Rockets, and Celtics come to mind as all teams that could use him as a backup 5.

If your not a big who can stretch the floor. your destinations are limted. Also none of those teams have a surplus of guards or wings, which is our needs. Any trade for KOQ will probably be a package deal with one of our rotation players.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Kanter has done everything right so far from starting with shedding like 30pds in the offseason . He is earning it. He proves his impact. His attitude is great and necessary.

If we stretch Noah this offseason, renounce Dougies rights, and KOQ opts out. We could free up about 20mil in cap space before counting our draft pick salary. Also matters if Kanter opts out or in. And how much he will command his first yr and he could work it out with the Knicks to take a lower starting salary and have it jump back up. But I don't see any FA this off season worth throwing money at for the other positions of need. That fit our timeline as a long term piece and be a difference maker. The following off season we will have to pay KP so that would be the only real open door to spend in FA. Package that with Willy and one of our 2nd and maybe we can secure a decent player.

If Kanter is the long term option. Then a full court press on moving KOQ & Willy for other needs has to happen. Possible Dougie as well.

I agree about most of these things. We need to move O'Quinn. He is valuable to a contender at his current contract. Willy has to stay, if for anything because he is close with KP. This is all about building around our star player. We have to keep the chemistry strong. Willy will eventually get his rhythm back if he's playing consistent minutes off the bench. The jury is still out on McDermott, it will depend on what he wants for his next contract. Maybe (hopefully) we can keep him, or maybe someone like Dotson can step up and play a similar role off the bench next season. Kanter is proving his value and especially considering his age, he's a must keep. Noah can remain as a 3rd string center, or be stretched only if we need the money for a specific player. That option is there if we need it. This team is being built around KP, Ntilikina, Hardaway, and Kanter for better or for worse, and we need to make every move with that in mind.

what contender?

There's 2 teams who are legit contenders CAVS/GSW, and 3 more potential contenders, spurs, rockets, Celtics. 4 of those teams (Houston, GSW, CAVS, Celtics) would never trade for KOQ because they shoot a 100 3's per game, and the run up and down the court. The spurs have enough bigs, and have no interest in KOQ.

KOQ has value because he is an ideal role/bench player who has very good advanced stats. Teams that value advanced stats will look at KOQ as a dude who will improve their bench if they are lacking in that area. Can be a spot starter and post big numbers here and there. Rebounds well, hits his FTs, blks shots, scores efficiently. At 4.5mil a team may take that chance. He is basically what Amir Johnson was over the last couple of yrs. Why Boston gave him 12 mil over 2 yrs and why 76ers gave him 1 yr 11mil.

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:his options are going to be very small with almost no team with cap next off season except for the bulls, lakers, and dallas

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/2018/

Thank you for breaking this down. This is the type of stuff Briggs and others need to see to realize it's not as black and white as playing well equals a big contract. The market is the biggest factor and right now it appears that it will be in the Knicks' favor, instead of Kanter's.

Kanter is falling n in love with the city. He might be willing to work with the Knicks to get talent here.

I don't mind paying of he keeps up what he is doing consistently. But the Knicks are known for paying way above Market for whoever they have a crush on, example THJR. I will be very upset if we did something stupid like that.

I have yet to see any evidence that THjr is being overpaid. Can you offer any?

Thj has been playing pretty well following a terrible start. Ok defense too. Worth the money? Hard to say. 42%fg and 31% 3pt isnt awesome for sg or 1st positions.

why is it hard to say. Look at all the guards who have been signed in the last 2-3 years since the new cap. Where does Timmy stand next to his financial peers?

He's paid a lot less than Beal, Reddick, Batum...

Bazemore, Evan Turner, Alan Crabbe... These are Timmy's financial "peers."

Sure he's overpaid?

Obviously the market changes year after year, but if we are comparing him to guys like Bazemore, Turner, and Crabbe, he is definitely a good value contract.

We need to decide based on our needs. We overpaid, he wasn't getting anything close to our offer from anyone. And he didn't fill a position of need. What other guess make on other teams without cross examining their needs and cap situations is a weak argument.

I will say of all the pHil moves--many of which were good--the Noah contract is an albatross of gross propensities.

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Kanter has done everything right so far from starting with shedding like 30pds in the offseason . He is earning it. He proves his impact. His attitude is great and necessary.

If we stretch Noah this offseason, renounce Dougies rights, and KOQ opts out. We could free up about 20mil in cap space before counting our draft pick salary. Also matters if Kanter opts out or in. And how much he will command his first yr and he could work it out with the Knicks to take a lower starting salary and have it jump back up. But I don't see any FA this off season worth throwing money at for the other positions of need. That fit our timeline as a long term piece and be a difference maker. The following off season we will have to pay KP so that would be the only real open door to spend in FA. Package that with Willy and one of our 2nd and maybe we can secure a decent player.

If Kanter is the long term option. Then a full court press on moving KOQ & Willy for other needs has to happen. Possible Dougie as well.

I agree about most of these things. We need to move O'Quinn. He is valuable to a contender at his current contract. Willy has to stay, if for anything because he is close with KP. This is all about building around our star player. We have to keep the chemistry strong. Willy will eventually get his rhythm back if he's playing consistent minutes off the bench. The jury is still out on McDermott, it will depend on what he wants for his next contract. Maybe (hopefully) we can keep him, or maybe someone like Dotson can step up and play a similar role off the bench next season. Kanter is proving his value and especially considering his age, he's a must keep. Noah can remain as a 3rd string center, or be stretched only if we need the money for a specific player. That option is there if we need it. This team is being built around KP, Ntilikina, Hardaway, and Kanter for better or for worse, and we need to make every move with that in mind.

what contender?

There's 2 teams who are legit contenders CAVS/GSW, and 3 more potential contenders, spurs, rockets, Celtics. 4 of those teams (Houston, GSW, CAVS, Celtics) would never trade for KOQ because they shoot a 100 3's per game, and the run up and down the court. The spurs have enough bigs, and have no interest in KOQ.

Cavs, Rockets, and Celtics come to mind as all teams that could use him as a backup 5.

If your not a big who can stretch the floor. your destinations are limted. Also none of those teams have a surplus of guards or wings, which is our needs. Any trade for KOQ will probably be a package deal with one of our rotation players.

Not accurate. Modern offenses want efficiency. So even if your a big who can't shoot 3s. If you are putting up a 60% TS and can rebound and defend. You will fit right in.

The type of deal that would have to be worked out though would be KOQ to the Celtics for Aaron Baynes and an asset. Probably like 2 2nders or a 2nd and the rights to one of their stashes or something. Then we cut or buy out Baynes.

yeah but is any team sacrificing a 1st rnd pick, or a productive guard for him, just trading him for the sake of getting rid of one of our bigs is not smart. With shaky ass willy, " back problems" kanter, and fragile kp and noah..IDk man, that could be risky

We wouldn't get a first unless we take a scrub player back. But only from a team that feels will be offering a late late first. KOQ isn't a long term answer here especially if we commit to Kanter. So either lose him for nothing and just let him play out the season and hold his value with that. Or look to get some type of asset back.

TripleThreat wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Kanter has done everything right so far from starting with shedding like 30pds in the offseason . He is earning it. He proves his impact. His attitude is great and necessary.

He's playing for his next contract. If he wanted to "earn it" and "prove it", he should have played this hard his ENTIRE career. He did not. He's only played a handful of games as a Knick.

What happens when he gets paid? When he got paid by OKC, his demeanor changed a ton. He's been prone to not give a **** in both Utah and OKC.

Seriously, he's only played a handful of games as a Knick. Odds are he's going to Opt In. So let him do that and see what happens. See if the effort burns this hard over time. Or not.

You don't marry a chick after one great blowjob. You don't marry her even after 10 great blowjobs.

Paulie Walnuts - Hey Sil, do you remember your first blowjob?
Silvio Dante - Eh, Sure I do Paulie...
Paulie Walnuts - How long did it take the guy to come?
(Everyone laughs)
Paulie Walnuts - Hey Tony, I asked Sil, did he remember his first blowjob, he said Yes, then I said.....

He isn't doing anything out of his realm. Hes always produced this way offensively and rebounding wise. He is also now in his prime has 6 yrs under his belt. Played for winning teams and learned what he needs to do based off his past experiences. He didn't know he was getting traded and was already in the process to shed 30pds for OKC because he was trying stay on the court. He could have accepted his 20mins while collecting 30mil+ mil over the next 2 years.

But at the end of the day he is helping this team succeed. He fits next to KP, and is growing into a core piece under JH. He will also always hold value if we resign him due to his age and production and advanced stats.

There is enough data to believe he can and would maintain this level of play.