GustavBahler wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:
I agree. I don't really think you can judge a young PG until year three. And even that might be aggressive. It took John Wall seven years to finally get some legit respect. And it took 5/6 years for him to hit his stride as a legit playmaker.

3 years? If Frank is still allergic to the rim next season, I would have no problem with the Knicks moving him, if it can improve the team in some way. Frank didnt drive all that much in France, from what Ive read. Now he is expected to drive against faster players.

I don't believe it is a given that he will become starter quality. I honestly dont know. I will know if this problem stretches into next season. Would have had plenty of time to work on that part of his game.

Nah, no way I would trade him unless it's a no brainer deal of course. But he should be given the full length of his rookie deal.

He is tops in stls and deflections and has elite on ball defensive potential and his jumper has potential. We will also most likey maintain 2 bigs which a 3-D PG like Frank if that's all his potential leads to be would thrive. His potential in this fields earns him leeway of developing for his full rookie deal.

Let alone changing the impatient culture of dumping draft picks if they aren't ready made after only 2 yrs which we are known for.

We have seen flashes of him changing gears and getting g into the lane. So we still can't claim it's a physical thing which he can't overcome. May be more of a confidence thing which will come when he is more of a vet and his body has been developed some more and he is absorbing contact better. And has confidence in where to get the ball to as well as absorbing contact if the lane does close out on him.

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:
I agree. I don't really think you can judge a young PG until year three. And even that might be aggressive. It took John Wall seven years to finally get some legit respect. And it took 5/6 years for him to hit his stride as a legit playmaker.

3 years? If Frank is still allergic to the rim next season, I would have no problem with the Knicks moving him, if it can improve the team in some way. Frank didnt drive all that much in France, from what Ive read. Now he is expected to drive against faster players.

I don't believe it is a given that he will become starter quality. I honestly dont know. I will know if this problem stretches into next season. Would have had plenty of time to work on that part of his game.

Nah, no way I would trade him unless it's a no brainer deal of course. But he should be given the full length of his rookie deal.

He is tops in stls and deflections and has elite on ball defensive potential and his jumper has potential. We will also most likey maintain 2 bigs which a 3-D PG like Frank if that's all his potential leads to be would thrive. His potential in this fields earns him leeway of developing for his full rookie deal.

Let alone changing the impatient culture of dumping draft picks if they aren't ready made after only 2 yrs which we are known for.

We have seen flashes of him changing gears and getting g into the lane. So we still can't claim it's a physical thing which he can't overcome. May be more of a confidence thing which will come when he is more of a vet and his body has been developed some more and he is absorbing contact better. And has confidence in where to get the ball to as well as absorbing contact if the lane does close out on him.

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:
I agree. I don't really think you can judge a young PG until year three. And even that might be aggressive. It took John Wall seven years to finally get some legit respect. And it took 5/6 years for him to hit his stride as a legit playmaker.

3 years? If Frank is still allergic to the rim next season, I would have no problem with the Knicks moving him, if it can improve the team in some way. Frank didnt drive all that much in France, from what Ive read. Now he is expected to drive against faster players.

I don't believe it is a given that he will become starter quality. I honestly dont know. I will know if this problem stretches into next season. Would have had plenty of time to work on that part of his game.

Nah, no way I would trade him unless it's a no brainer deal of course. But he should be given the full length of his rookie deal.

He is tops in stls and deflections and has elite on ball defensive potential and his jumper has potential. We will also most likey maintain 2 bigs which a 3-D PG like Frank if that's all his potential leads to be would thrive. His potential in this fields earns him leeway of developing for his full rookie deal.

Let alone changing the impatient culture of dumping draft picks if they aren't ready made after only 2 yrs which we are known for.

We have seen flashes of him changing gears and getting g into the lane. So we still can't claim it's a physical thing which he can't overcome. May be more of a confidence thing which will come when he is more of a vet and his body has been developed some more and he is absorbing contact better. And has confidence in where to get the ball to as well as absorbing contact if the lane does close out on him.

Im talking about trading someone who may show that he is better suited as a bench player, for a starter. No lateral moves. Thats if Frank is still not being aggressive next season, Im in no way suggesting or predicting that. Only saying that if he gets through all of this season, next summer, and into next season with no measurable difference in that area speak of. A deal to upgrade the team should be considered.

See I don't know because even if Frank becomes nothing more than a role player. He may be an invaluable piece. If he is a backup who can come in and play lock down defense. Generate tons of stls in limited mins. Knock down jumpers, make heady intangible plays and is a complete glue guy.

And that is like his downside.

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:
I agree. I don't really think you can judge a young PG until year three. And even that might be aggressive. It took John Wall seven years to finally get some legit respect. And it took 5/6 years for him to hit his stride as a legit playmaker.

3 years? If Frank is still allergic to the rim next season, I would have no problem with the Knicks moving him, if it can improve the team in some way. Frank didnt drive all that much in France, from what Ive read. Now he is expected to drive against faster players.

I don't believe it is a given that he will become starter quality. I honestly dont know. I will know if this problem stretches into next season. Would have had plenty of time to work on that part of his game.

Nah, no way I would trade him unless it's a no brainer deal of course. But he should be given the full length of his rookie deal.

He is tops in stls and deflections and has elite on ball defensive potential and his jumper has potential. We will also most likey maintain 2 bigs which a 3-D PG like Frank if that's all his potential leads to be would thrive. His potential in this fields earns him leeway of developing for his full rookie deal.

Let alone changing the impatient culture of dumping draft picks if they aren't ready made after only 2 yrs which we are known for.

We have seen flashes of him changing gears and getting g into the lane. So we still can't claim it's a physical thing which he can't overcome. May be more of a confidence thing which will come when he is more of a vet and his body has been developed some more and he is absorbing contact better. And has confidence in where to get the ball to as well as absorbing contact if the lane does close out on him.

Im talking about trading someone who may show that he is better suited as a bench player, for a starter. No lateral moves. Thats if Frank is still not being aggressive next season, Im in no way suggesting or predicting that. Only saying that if he gets through all of this season, next summer, and into next season with no measurable difference in that area speak of. A deal to upgrade the team should be considered.

See I don't know because even if Frank becomes nothing more than a role player. He may be an invaluable piece. If he is a backup who can come in and play lock down defense. Generate tons of stls in limited mins. Knock down jumpers, make heady intangible plays and is a complete glue guy.

And that is like his downside.

It would depend on the deal of course, and where the team was competitively. I know what Frank brings to the table. If he wasn't another PG in a long line of Knick PGs who werent aggressive enough (so far), I might be more patient. Really need a long term solution to that problem. I hope Frank turns out to be the answer. Feel strongly that the sooner he starts being more aggressive, the better the outcome.

True, but at the same time look at Hardaway jr. Took him about 4 yrs to become the player he has become today and this is after coming out as a junior? His scouting report claimed a lot of flaws in terms of speed, lacking first step creating his own shot, frail body. His mentality of course was way different then Franks. But it wasn't until he committed to transforming his body that he was able to overcome a lot of these weaknesses.

martin wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:
I agree. I don't really think you can judge a young PG until year three. And even that might be aggressive. It took John Wall seven years to finally get some legit respect. And it took 5/6 years for him to hit his stride as a legit playmaker.

3 years? If Frank is still allergic to the rim next season, I would have no problem with the Knicks moving him, if it can improve the team in some way. Frank didnt drive all that much in France, from what Ive read. Now he is expected to drive against faster players.

I don't believe it is a given that he will become starter quality. I honestly dont know. I will know if this problem stretches into next season. Would have had plenty of time to work on that part of his game.

Nah, no way I would trade him unless it's a no brainer deal of course. But he should be given the full length of his rookie deal.

He is tops in stls and deflections and has elite on ball defensive potential and his jumper has potential. We will also most likey maintain 2 bigs which a 3-D PG like Frank if that's all his potential leads to be would thrive. His potential in this fields earns him leeway of developing for his full rookie deal.

Let alone changing the impatient culture of dumping draft picks if they aren't ready made after only 2 yrs which we are known for.

We have seen flashes of him changing gears and getting g into the lane. So we still can't claim it's a physical thing which he can't overcome. May be more of a confidence thing which will come when he is more of a vet and his body has been developed some more and he is absorbing contact better. And has confidence in where to get the ball to as well as absorbing contact if the lane does close out on him.

Im talking about trading someone who may show that he is better suited as a bench player, for a starter. No lateral moves. Thats if Frank is still not being aggressive next season, Im in no way suggesting or predicting that. Only saying that if he gets through all of this season, next summer, and into next season with no measurable difference in that area speak of. A deal to upgrade the team should be considered.

See I don't know because even if Frank becomes nothing more than a role player. He may be an invaluable piece. If he is a backup who can come in and play lock down defense. Generate tons of stls in limited mins. Knock down jumpers, make heady intangible plays and is a complete glue guy.

And that is like his downside.

It would depend on the deal of course, and where the team was competitively. I know what Frank brings to the table. If he wasn't another PG in a long line of Knick PGs who werent aggressive enough (so far), I might be more patient. Really need a long term solution to that problem. I hope Frank turns out to be the answer. Feel strongly that the sooner he starts being more aggressive, the better the outcome.

True, but at the same time look at Hardaway jr. Took him about 4 yrs to become the player he has become today and this is after coming out as a junior? His scouting report claimed a lot of flaws in terms of speed, lacking first step creating his own shot, frail body. His mentality of course was way different then Franks. But it wasn't until he committed to transforming his body that he was able to overcome a lot of these weaknesses.

Even take Nash as an example. Elite shooter off the bat, needed to improve on so many of the other parts of the game. Came into the NBA at 22. Took about 3-4 years before he started to show his stuff.

Some dudes just need time. Body, game speed, all of the above.

KP and Frank have the same underdeveloped body type IMHO compared to many at the same age. Some come into the league ready, some take 3-4 years before weight, weight training, attitude and know-how catch up. Feel like both had the elite potential and BBIQ to have a very insane trajectory that needs to be worked on to get fully fleshed out.

Great points. Frank and KP seem to be slow developing. I was like that so I know how that can indeed be the case. Gotta be patient with guys like that. Frank and KP have great frames to build on.

martin wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:
I agree. I don't really think you can judge a young PG until year three. And even that might be aggressive. It took John Wall seven years to finally get some legit respect. And it took 5/6 years for him to hit his stride as a legit playmaker.

3 years? If Frank is still allergic to the rim next season, I would have no problem with the Knicks moving him, if it can improve the team in some way. Frank didnt drive all that much in France, from what Ive read. Now he is expected to drive against faster players.

I don't believe it is a given that he will become starter quality. I honestly dont know. I will know if this problem stretches into next season. Would have had plenty of time to work on that part of his game.

Nah, no way I would trade him unless it's a no brainer deal of course. But he should be given the full length of his rookie deal.

He is tops in stls and deflections and has elite on ball defensive potential and his jumper has potential. We will also most likey maintain 2 bigs which a 3-D PG like Frank if that's all his potential leads to be would thrive. His potential in this fields earns him leeway of developing for his full rookie deal.

Let alone changing the impatient culture of dumping draft picks if they aren't ready made after only 2 yrs which we are known for.

We have seen flashes of him changing gears and getting g into the lane. So we still can't claim it's a physical thing which he can't overcome. May be more of a confidence thing which will come when he is more of a vet and his body has been developed some more and he is absorbing contact better. And has confidence in where to get the ball to as well as absorbing contact if the lane does close out on him.

Im talking about trading someone who may show that he is better suited as a bench player, for a starter. No lateral moves. Thats if Frank is still not being aggressive next season, Im in no way suggesting or predicting that. Only saying that if he gets through all of this season, next summer, and into next season with no measurable difference in that area speak of. A deal to upgrade the team should be considered.

See I don't know because even if Frank becomes nothing more than a role player. He may be an invaluable piece. If he is a backup who can come in and play lock down defense. Generate tons of stls in limited mins. Knock down jumpers, make heady intangible plays and is a complete glue guy.

And that is like his downside.

It would depend on the deal of course, and where the team was competitively. I know what Frank brings to the table. If he wasn't another PG in a long line of Knick PGs who werent aggressive enough (so far), I might be more patient. Really need a long term solution to that problem. I hope Frank turns out to be the answer. Feel strongly that the sooner he starts being more aggressive, the better the outcome.

True, but at the same time look at Hardaway jr. Took him about 4 yrs to become the player he has become today and this is after coming out as a junior? His scouting report claimed a lot of flaws in terms of speed, lacking first step creating his own shot, frail body. His mentality of course was way different then Franks. But it wasn't until he committed to transforming his body that he was able to overcome a lot of these weaknesses.

Even take Nash as an example. Elite shooter off the bat, needed to improve on so many of the other parts of the game. Came into the NBA at 22. Took about 3-4 years before he started to show his stuff.

Some dudes just need time. Body, game speed, all of the above.

KP and Frank have the same underdeveloped body type IMHO compared to many at the same age. Some come into the league ready, some take 3-4 years before weight, weight training, attitude and know-how catch up. Feel like both had the elite potential and BBIQ to have a very insane trajectory that needs to be worked on to get fully fleshed out.

This is my point... I'm not saying that Frank gets a free ride for 3 years. He has to do his part. My only point is that it is foolish to think a point guard is finished developing after a year. There is a ton that goes into the position. If the Bucks want to trade is Giannis for Frank okay fine but I hope we don't just give up on the guy. There are plenty of points who looked great right away and ultimately flamed out. Paging Frank Williams