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What's the facination with a .500 (at best) team?
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nyknickzingis
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11/26/2017  6:21 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/26/2017  6:30 AM
The team is where they are at because KP improved incredibly over the summer and the team has team chemistry and more depth. They play well around KP. Without Phil meddling, we are seeing Hornachek's strength as a coach on offense. Our offense has improved without Phil's meddling and without ball stoppers like Melo and Rose.

HOWEVER:
We're not winning playing with core players that will be here 2 years from now. We're winning playing with a starting PG that was out of the league. A starting SG who will be gone 2 years from now. A starting 5 who I love but will have a 50/50 chance at returning. Our bench is filled with middle of their careers type of guys or guys that will not be in the NBA a few years from now.

This team is 1-7 on the road and still pretty bad on defense unless Frank is locked in.

Lets keep the same focus and perspective we had at season's start. 25 and under.

Kanter 25 Willy 23
KP 22
Doug 24
THJ 25 Dotson 22
Frank 19

That's essentially the players we should be looking to develop into the rotation and be regulars over the next year or so. Add good draft picks and make trades that make sense longterm (such as O'Quinn for a first rounder or young wing player).

Way I see it we need to remain focused on making longterm moves such as the Melo trade. Trade older for younger whenever you can. Do not get too excited about a team that has 3 starters that may not be even starting for us next year. We have to remain focused on the big prize. Building a team that can be a playoff lock and a contender for a long time. No quick fixes.

I think Mills and Perry know this. I hope they don't overpay Enes. He is valuable with a salary of 15M or so. If you begin to go more north on that, you are not going to leave enough room to eventually sign a star free agent. You need to preserve capspace. Think longterm. Above all else.

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GustavBahler
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11/26/2017  8:45 PM
Cant go from zero to contender, just like that. You have to change the culture first. You have to gradually get better, give younger players like KP, playoff experience. Even if some of the players who helped get us there will be gone. The playoff experience KP and Frank will get (among others) will remain. Its not "the process" but its a process nevertheless.
CrushAlot
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11/26/2017  9:56 PM
I don't think the focus has changed in regards to getting young players to build the team. I do think some of the players you mentioned might be moved to better the team. I also think acquiring Kanter may make Willy a guy that is moved as part of the rebuilding process.
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arkrud
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11/26/2017  10:18 PM
This is not 50% winning team. See where we be in the end of January... It will not be close to 50%.
And there is no fascination among those fans who understand bbal. This team has years to go until contending.
Fascination is about the progress of KP, TJR, Frank, and team identity which will be up and down also.
They make it interesting more that not. So we watch...
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
EnySpree
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11/26/2017  10:20 PM
We just have to keep stepping forward. The idea is to get the best team possible. It's not an exact science.
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newyorknewyork
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11/26/2017  10:23 PM
The fascination is attempting to enjoy the process and journey of developing and building a contender.

The players playing beat out their competition. That's how it should be.

Right now Knicks are in range for the 15th and 31st picks in the upcoming NBA draft. We need a real SF, Long term running mate with Frank at PG, Long term back up PF that most likely will need to be long, athletic and probably have to be able to shoot if we maintain having a low post thudder next to KP. Would most likely have to use that 2nd rounder to cover that. And depending on if we keep Kanter or not we will need a thudding enforcer type center. If Kanter does opt out that would free up some money where a guy like Derek Favors may end up being cheaper than Kanter. Favors is still in his prime at 27 offers more defensive upside. Playing center and having a big like KP who stretches the floor would also do wonders for Favors who may be had at a bargain. But with Gobert out for a couple of months Favors has all the opportunity right now to up his stock.

Upgrading the size, length, athleticism at the forward position would be huge for our defense on the glass and cover for some of KPs flaws. With the needs listed in the previous paragraph. Must understand that all of them probably won't be correctly fixed and upgraded all in one off season. Our 2 draft picks will need to attempt to cover 2 of those needs. And may have to wait until the following off season to fill the rest of the needs. That's the process.

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dodger78
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11/27/2017  3:00 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:The team is where they are at because KP improved incredibly over the summer and the team has team chemistry and more depth. They play well around KP. Without Phil meddling, we are seeing Hornachek's strength as a coach on offense. Our offense has improved without Phil's meddling and without ball stoppers like Melo and Rose.

HOWEVER:
We're not winning playing with core players that will be here 2 years from now. We're winning playing with a starting PG that was out of the league. A starting SG who will be gone 2 years from now. A starting 5 who I love but will have a 50/50 chance at returning. Our bench is filled with middle of their careers type of guys or guys that will not be in the NBA a few years from now.

This team is 1-7 on the road and still pretty bad on defense unless Frank is locked in.

Lets keep the same focus and perspective we had at season's start. 25 and under.

Kanter 25 Willy 23
KP 22
Doug 24
THJ 25 Dotson 22
Frank 19

That's essentially the players we should be looking to develop into the rotation and be regulars over the next year or so. Add good draft picks and make trades that make sense longterm (such as O'Quinn for a first rounder or young wing player).

Way I see it we need to remain focused on making longterm moves such as the Melo trade. Trade older for younger whenever you can. Do not get too excited about a team that has 3 starters that may not be even starting for us next year. We have to remain focused on the big prize. Building a team that can be a playoff lock and a contender for a long time. No quick fixes.

I think Mills and Perry know this. I hope they don't overpay Enes. He is valuable with a salary of 15M or so. If you begin to go more north on that, you are not going to leave enough room to eventually sign a star free agent. You need to preserve capspace. Think longterm. Above all else.

I agree on the focus of developing the Talent we have and aquiring new/more assets/talent BUT out of the list of players you Name only Dotson and Willy have not received regular playing time.
Willy has been broadly discussed and Dotson is a second round rookie trying to play his way into an NBA rotation will not be easy for him right away!

To me the key is, and you are missing that point in your perspective I think, that you also want to establish a culture (as Gustav wrote) and a mind set for These young players! You need to have guys like Lee or Jack to transfer that! And time on the court has to be earned by a D-first, no-layups attitude in my mind! Nothing wrong playing the guys Hornacek plays if they Show that mindset and no arguing that we do not have championship talent on the roster at this moment!!

nyknickzingis
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11/27/2017  6:50 AM
Agree completely that having a CLee and Jack is important to establishing team culture and good habits.
However what I'm saying is that it should not come at the cost of player development and longterm goals.

So long as keep developing young players as well and also look to keep adding youth, we will move forward. Having one decent year and then writing big cheques to Enes, Kyle Jack etc. will be a big mistake.

NYKBocker
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11/27/2017  10:31 AM
arkrud wrote:This is not 50% winning team. See where we be in the end of January... It will not be close to 50%.
And there is no fascination among those fans who understand bbal. This team has years to go until contending.
Fascination is about the progress of KP, TJR, Frank, and team identity which will be up and down also.
They make it interesting more that not. So we watch...

This

EnySpree
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11/27/2017  11:01 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:Agree completely that having a CLee and Jack is important to establishing team culture and good habits.
However what I'm saying is that it should not come at the cost of player development and longterm goals.

So long as keep developing young players as well and also look to keep adding youth, we will move forward. Having one decent year and then writing big cheques to Enes, Kyle Jack etc. will be a big mistake.

You don't have to write anybody a check.... we do need to keep continuity within reason. You can't develop players properly without vets. We also can't keep rotating in players every year. That was the big topic of conversion with Phil... now that's something people feel we must do?

We all want to get better... keep developing young players, not paying players that are helping us. When does the cycle end? When do we get better? If we keep flipping roster like this when do we start to win? When Kristaps is 26-27 years old? Kristaps might not be here if this is how were going to run the franchise. There has to be a balance. We should be able to make the flip towards playoff contender in a year or so. That should be the focus. We don't have to mortgage the future to do it. There has to be a balance

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Nalod
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11/27/2017  11:19 AM
.500 from 17, 23 wins seasons is progress.
It’s not absolute.
ONly a parade down the “Canyon of heroes” is absolute. After that “can they repeat”?
Until then we enjoy progress.
nixluva
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11/27/2017  11:46 AM
The players are creating the current mood by playing hard and with purpose. There’s nothing more to it. This team is building an identity which will transcend this season especially since there are younger players in development who will come up in a culture of unselfishness and hard work.

The Spurs have been doing this for decades. This franchise has to start somewhere and everything that’s been happening this season is to establish a winning culture. I have no problem with this approach.

What's the facination with a .500 (at best) team?

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