TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It was reported that Melo was turning down all trade offers presented to him before Phil got fired because he so mad about how Phil handled things.

Perry seems to get credit for the OKC Melo trade when the reality is no matter who the GM of the Knicks was at the time, the biggest issue for Melo opening up his trade list was the impending start of the season.

If Phil Jackson was NOT FIRED, and the season was about to start, Melo would have likely expanded his trade list anyway. The exact same trade might have happened (Since Mills would have to negotiate it) anyway.

The one benefit to Perry is he had old ties to the OKC franchise since he worked there previously. Clearly that was an advantage.

Melo turned down all offers because the Knicks didn't want Ryan Anderson and James Harden would not allow the Rockets to fire Pringles to accommodate a Melo trade if the Knicks would take Anderson. In the end, Melo creating bad blood with Pringles hurt him in the end.

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It was reported that Melo was turning down all trade offers presented to him before Phil got fired because he so mad about how Phil handled things.

Perry seems to get credit for the OKC Melo trade when the reality is no matter who the GM of the Knicks was at the time, the biggest issue for Melo opening up his trade list was the impending start of the season.

If Phil Jackson was NOT FIRED, and the season was about to start, Melo would have likely expanded his trade list anyway. The exact same trade might have happened (Since Mills would have to negotiate it) anyway.

The one benefit to Perry is he had old ties to the OKC franchise since he worked there previously. Clearly that was an advantage.

Melo turned down all offers because the Knicks didn't want Ryan Anderson and James Harden would not allow the Rockets to fire Pringles to accommodate a Melo trade if the Knicks would take Anderson. In the end, Melo creating bad blood with Pringles hurt him in the end.

Who is "Pringles?"

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It was reported that Melo was turning down all trade offers presented to him before Phil got fired because he so mad about how Phil handled things.

Perry seems to get credit for the OKC Melo trade when the reality is no matter who the GM of the Knicks was at the time, the biggest issue for Melo opening up his trade list was the impending start of the season.

If Phil Jackson was NOT FIRED, and the season was about to start, Melo would have likely expanded his trade list anyway. The exact same trade might have happened (Since Mills would have to negotiate it) anyway.

The one benefit to Perry is he had old ties to the OKC franchise since he worked there previously. Clearly that was an advantage.

Melo turned down all offers because the Knicks didn't want Ryan Anderson and James Harden would not allow the Rockets to fire Pringles to accommodate a Melo trade if the Knicks would take Anderson. In the end, Melo creating bad blood with Pringles hurt him in the end.

I don't care what anyone say's, that sht took away everyones focus and held us back. Guys just didn't want to run it, wasn't comfortable running it consistently, it was predictable, it was run half way confusing the sht out of everybody, it under minded the coach, it was a total distraction that killed the spirit, energy, and skills of almost every player and coach.

Give me a break...That fckng triangle derailed everything we tried to do

knicks1248 wrote:If the triangle wasn't the main issue, why isn't it being run now like phil wanted. Did any player (75% roster hold over) come in advocating for the TRIANGLE?

I don't care what anyone say's, that sht took away everyones focus and held us back. Guys just didn't want to run it, wasn't comfortable running it consistently, it was predictable, it was run half way confusing the sht out of everybody, it under minded the coach, it was a total distraction that killed the spirit, energy, and skills of almost every player and coach.

Give me a break...That fckng triangle derailed everything we tried to do

1st off KP likes the Triangle and not only did they teach it in this Summer League but did so early in Training Camp. Not the Pure Triangle but concepts to be sure! Last year they ran Early Spread PnR more than anything and at one point ran almost no Triangle at all last year.

This year they aren’t running Early Spread PnR. This yr they run a lot of early Weaves. I’ve seen an occasional use of Horns. Jeff is mixing it up. They still use Triangle concepts but minus the Reads, Rules and Automatics players had to memorize. Knicks still use Overloads, DHOs and fill certain spots that are Triangle concepts. It’s less than even last year which wasn’t a lot of Triangle either. In fact they never even ran 50% Triangle at the point when they put an emphasis on it last yr!

The main difference is the fact they don’t have ball stoppers and ball hogs. These guys will push the ball up the floor and run. These guys defend get turnovers so there’s LESS Half Court than last year.

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It was reported that Melo was turning down all trade offers presented to him before Phil got fired because he so mad about how Phil handled things.

Perry seems to get credit for the OKC Melo trade when the reality is no matter who the GM of the Knicks was at the time, the biggest issue for Melo opening up his trade list was the impending start of the season.

If Phil Jackson was NOT FIRED, and the season was about to start, Melo would have likely expanded his trade list anyway. The exact same trade might have happened (Since Mills would have to negotiate it) anyway.

The one benefit to Perry is he had old ties to the OKC franchise since he worked there previously. Clearly that was an advantage.

Melo turned down all offers because the Knicks didn't want Ryan Anderson and James Harden would not allow the Rockets to fire Pringles to accommodate a Melo trade if the Knicks would take Anderson. In the end, Melo creating bad blood with Pringles hurt him in the end.

If Phil stayed he would have had to have bought out Melo. Melo was not going to give up anything to help Phil. Melo's deal to the rockets was done. The rockets didn't put a stop to the deal because of Dantoni. Perry stopped the deal hecause the knicks were not getting enough back.

Melo was never going to be bought out. Melo has never left cash on the table. ( No one bring up the few million he basically traded for his NTC and functional PR when Jackson asked him to give back some money in the press) Knicks were not going to pay him 100 percent to go play for someone else with no compensation.

Melo had just as much reason to want to leave the Knicks as they had in wanting to get rid of him.

This Melo Hates Phil narrative is some cheap spin by Leon Rose and CAA.

The Knicks were never going to take Ryan Anderson in a trade. Never. There was no "done deal" that Perry magically spun around and made gold out of iron. Go with what you read as spin in the media. I'll stick to what I hear and know from guys still in the league right now.

There was a very real risk that Melo, given his previous injury history, his age, and his contract situation, would get hurt this year as a Knick, then opt in, because the market would collapse, then not be able to fully cash in on the Over 38 Rule adjustment that he, Chris Paul and LBJ negotiated basically for themselves.

This narrative you push that Jackson ruined Melo's trade value, over and over again, has no real market basis. He's an aging expensive player with a NTC and was a poor roster fit for many teams that could use him, but they could only use him as a luxury since his style of play creates so many negative trade offs ( hence why the Knicks wanted to trade him in the first place, which goes back to what I always say, over and over - If a player is available, HE'S AVAILABLE FOR A REASON) He also has a reputation as a coach killer and will use the media to hatchet job anyone who won't give him what he wants.

He's aging. He's a poor roster fit because he can only really play PF, which has extremely low positional value in the league. He won't play defense. His cap tradeoff to get a salary match would gut most contenders, which is one step forward, three steps back. He's also a threat to any coach on any team at any time. That killed his trade value. Jackson could say NOTHING and those issues would still be issues.

Phil Jackson went after Melo in the open press for a couple of reasons

A) He's ALWAYS DONE THIS. With the Bulls, with the Lakers, he's always done it. Why should anyone expect different in NY?

B) Melo's "Weakness" was his desire to be some branding giant and public perception. So Jackson kept hitting it to leverage Melo to waive his NTC to more teams besides the Rockets. Melo has shown he is fine NOT WINNING as long as he's getting paid, he's getting to play however he wants, his coach lets him do what he wants and his branding is never at risk from a PR standpoint.

Where Jackson did hurt the situation worse was if he stayed, it would have been impossible to bench Melo for refusing to play defense. It would have been seen as a leverage point to try to get him to waive his NTC to more teams, and to be fair, that's what it would have been in reality as well. That's how Jackson did hurt the Knicks ( besides all the other stupid stuff he did)

Melo could LOVE Jackson, and guess what? He's still a poor salary match fit for contenders, he's aging and he's an injury risk, plus a guy who is a poor roster fit and a coach killer to boot. All that creates negative trade offs even if Jackson SAID NOTHING AT ALL.

We made out like bandits in this deal. No question about it.

knickstorrents wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If the triangle wasn't the main issue, why isn't it being run now like phil wanted. Did any player (75% roster hold over) come in advocating for the TRIANGLE?

I don't care what anyone say's, that sht took away everyones focus and held us back. Guys just didn't want to run it, wasn't comfortable running it consistently, it was predictable, it was run half way confusing the sht out of everybody, it under minded the coach, it was a total distraction that killed the spirit, energy, and skills of almost every player and coach.

Give me a break...That fckng triangle derailed everything we tried to do

Listen this is a misconception. We tried to play the triangle but the players were either too stubborn/lazy (Melo) or too dumb (Rose) to understand it. We didn't really play a lot of triangle.

Please watch this video I linked previously:

reub wrote:OKC is struggling and Melo had zero assists last night. Stu Jackson said on NBA TV that he should be coming off of the bench.
Yes, we won the trade.

Melo’s Catch-and-Shoot Third Quarter. Carmelo Anthony had 16 points on 6/12 shooting — going 4/7 from downtown in the process. He was just kind of there for most of the night, but had a great streak in the third quarter that looked like it might spark something for OKC. He shot 3/4 from deep in the third, all of which came in catch-and-shoot situations. Funny how that works.

CrushAlot wrote:

reub wrote:OKC is struggling and Melo had zero assists last night. Stu Jackson said on NBA TV that he should be coming off of the bench.
Yes, we won the trade.

Last night was a really bad loss for them. I check into see how they are doing because Melo was a Knick for so long. One of the blog articles today called the Thunder a bad team after last nights loss. But their right up on Melo was positive. PG had an awful game according to the box scores and articles written about the game. Here is what was said about Melo in the one article that I read,

Melo’s Catch-and-Shoot Third Quarter. Carmelo Anthony had 16 points on 6/12 shooting — going 4/7 from downtown in the process. He was just kind of there for most of the night, but had a great streak in the third quarter that looked like it might spark something for OKC. He shot 3/4 from deep in the third, all of which came in catch-and-shoot situations. Funny how that works.

http://dailythunder.com/mavericks-embarrass-helpless-thunder-97-81/
There is definitely a growing frustation from the media covering the team.

newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

reub wrote:OKC is struggling and Melo had zero assists last night. Stu Jackson said on NBA TV that he should be coming off of the bench.
Yes, we won the trade.

Last night was a really bad loss for them. I check into see how they are doing because Melo was a Knick for so long. One of the blog articles today called the Thunder a bad team after last nights loss. But their right up on Melo was positive. PG had an awful game according to the box scores and articles written about the game. Here is what was said about Melo in the one article that I read,

Melo’s Catch-and-Shoot Third Quarter. Carmelo Anthony had 16 points on 6/12 shooting — going 4/7 from downtown in the process. He was just kind of there for most of the night, but had a great streak in the third quarter that looked like it might spark something for OKC. He shot 3/4 from deep in the third, all of which came in catch-and-shoot situations. Funny how that works.

http://dailythunder.com/mavericks-embarrass-helpless-thunder-97-81/
There is definitely a growing frustation from the media covering the team.

I was looking at the box score this mourning and saw that Melo and Adams only played like 26 & 27 mins. While Russ and George played like 38-39. Don't think either was in foul trouble either. Found that strange.

I think Donovan is still trying to figure things out...which I think is going to end up costing him his job.

The truth of the matter is that the Thunder's bench is extremely weak. This is where they are losing games. Unfortunately, the only way to fix this may be to bring either George or Melo off the bench but even then, that may not be enough.

Anyway...at the moment, it's obvious that the Knicks received the better of the trade with the way Kanter is performing but I'll wait and see how the season ends before final judgement.