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GustavBahler
Posts: 42838 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
![]() https://sports.yahoo.com/m/a9c22f1d-b1ec-3b22-8421-aa2bd83073ac/is-knicks%26%2339%3B-early-success.html
Is Knicks' early success the stuff of long-deferred playoff dreams? |
HofstraBBall
Posts: 27990 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 11/21/2015 Member: #6192 |
![]() GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/m/a9c22f1d-b1ec-3b22-8421-aa2bd83073ac/is-knicks%26%2339%3B-early-success.html You may want to keep this on the down low. Some on here still think we are running "Elements" of the Triangle. You know cuz players are setting pikcs, at high post and making back cuts. 'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
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knicks1248
Posts: 42059 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #582 |
![]() No triangle
ES
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/2/2004 Member: #581 USA |
![]() knicks1248 wrote:No triangle No Rosephilmelo (my new word) |
newyorknewyork
Posts: 30135 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #541 |
![]() HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/m/a9c22f1d-b1ec-3b22-8421-aa2bd83073ac/is-knicks%26%2339%3B-early-success.html Think there is a miss connect here. Right to the point the triangle wasn't run enough to have the heat on that it does. Nix posted up in the other thread direct quotes for Jeff on a month to month basis. Stating how they only were running triangle sets out of dead balls. In the same thread I posted a video of a dude who dissected over 400 half court sets over 4 games that varied in time. And some games we ran triangle in 10 out of 108 and another 4 out of 104. Between both actual hard data and specific details. How is something that was actually utilized so little taking the blame for majority of the ills? The same argument used to defend the critique of Melo and his assignment of blame is being used against the triangle. So these principals only seem to be there for the people and things "some" choose to support and not in general. When speaking about the triangle. The philosophies that were argued were about for one pace. Yet during the 54 win season we didn't seem to have a problem the 89 pace we ran as we feed to ball to Melo in the high post as everyone stood around and let him do his thing. This isn't a knock on Melo its a knock on the hypocrisy. Today we moved from a 96 pace to 96.8 pace(well now 95.9 pace good for 27th in the league). 2nd was about giving the PGs more ball control and less thinking. Yet look at our guard situation and guard play style today. 3rd was about hoisting up 3s. Knicks are 28th in attempts and 28th in makes yet are 16th in %. The philosophies that were used to knock the triangle haven't been applied. All that has happen is the goal post has now moved from the big picture philosophies of pace, guard ball dominance, and 3s. And has been reduced to specific triangle sets which again were only ran from dead balls &/or 5%-10% game to game last season. Truthfully this isn't even worth debating about any more until an better counter argument can actually be presented then the one currently in place. https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
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GustavBahler
Posts: 42838 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
![]() newyorknewyork wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/m/a9c22f1d-b1ec-3b22-8421-aa2bd83073ac/is-knicks%26%2339%3B-early-success.html The only argument worth listening to on this matter has been made by the players, and the coaches. They hated the Triangle (except one) didnt like the backseat driving. The players and coaches have said it, the numbers back it up. I really have a hard time believing that anyone is still clinging to the notion that the Triangle in NY, was anything but a bad idea. That is unless you believe that the players and coaches dont know what they're talking about, or aren't telling the truth. Its like still believing in the Horse and Carriage. |
newyorknewyork
Posts: 30135 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #541 |
![]() GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/m/a9c22f1d-b1ec-3b22-8421-aa2bd83073ac/is-knicks%26%2339%3B-early-success.html Wouldn't matter as they hardly ran the triangle. Or as Jeff would say call it a circle if you want. https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
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GustavBahler
Posts: 42838 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
![]() newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/m/a9c22f1d-b1ec-3b22-8421-aa2bd83073ac/is-knicks%26%2339%3B-early-success.html Doesnt matter, much too much time was spent trying to integrate it into the offense. Hornacek should have been allowed to do his thing from day one. Again, the coaches and players have said very clearly that the Triangle, and Phil's crack like obsession with it, caused mostly problems. Dont listen to me, listen to them. |
newyorknewyork
Posts: 30135 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #541 |
![]() GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/m/a9c22f1d-b1ec-3b22-8421-aa2bd83073ac/is-knicks%26%2339%3B-early-success.html “Phil’s been great,” Hornacek added. “He’s not trying to take over and make us do anything. He’s giving us the leeway. There are some things that we do that aren’t the triangle stuff; our early stuff that quite honestly we probably thought he’d say ‘let’s not do that, or let’s not do this option.’ But he hasn’t said that at all. If I remember KP was quoted stating he liked the triangle but players didn't buy in which lead to a report that Melo chewed him for for saying so. But really none of this matters. As all of this is guess work. There is no real tangible hard data within any of these quotes. There were complaints that it was done half ass and they didn't emphasize it enough to be able to run it effectively when they did use it. Again tons of different comments about the triangle. Players didn't like it, who were the players? Rose has been horrible with the Cavs. Jennings I don't think is in the league. Melo is Melo but less efficient as I think his knee injury a couple yrs ago may have accelerated his decline. If we have Rose, Jennings and Melo on this squad today instead of the players we have today running purely Jeff's Suns offense we are a worse team right now. https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
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GustavBahler
Posts: 42838 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
![]() newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/m/a9c22f1d-b1ec-3b22-8421-aa2bd83073ac/is-knicks%26%2339%3B-early-success.html Right, what would the coaches and players know about the offense they run every single day? Listen to them. I feel like I have to pull Jeff Hornacek out from behind a sign (like Marshall McLuhan) and tell you you're flat out wrong. Even then I get the feeling that wouldnt be enough. |
newyorknewyork
Posts: 30135 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #541 |
![]() GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/m/a9c22f1d-b1ec-3b22-8421-aa2bd83073ac/is-knicks%26%2339%3B-early-success.html I've followed sports enough to not care for cherry picked quotes without full context. We're talking about the offense being the reason. Yet we're were down going into the 4th in multiple games and it has been the defensive turnups of Frank, Lance, KP pulling out these dubs. Offensively we have rode KP looking unguardable. Scoring all over the court over everyone hitting tough contested shots. First 3 games with Sessions at point we looked pretty bad and had Hardaway and Lee claiming that players don't know the plays and they are out there running around like they don't know what's going on. Now imagine if we had no Frank and Sessions had the clout if a Rose.I wonder what the narrative would be. https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
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GustavBahler
Posts: 42838 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
![]() newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/m/a9c22f1d-b1ec-3b22-8421-aa2bd83073ac/is-knicks%26%2339%3B-early-success.html If those quotes were taken out of context, I would understand your skepticism. I dont believe they leave any room for interpretation, they are happy the Triangle is out of the picture. Nothing "cherry picked" about that. Doesnt matter what offense Phil tried to plug in, as long as he was a backseat driver, it wasnt going to work. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but the evidence is overwhelming. The Triangle offense is no longer relevant in today's NBA and neither is Phil. |
newyorknewyork
Posts: 30135 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #541 |
![]() GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/m/a9c22f1d-b1ec-3b22-8421-aa2bd83073ac/is-knicks%26%2339%3B-early-success.html And there are quotes that Nix put up on him saying the tri isn't a big deal that its only a way to space the floor bball is bball yadda yadda yadda which you didn't respond to. I can probably go back to every post game article and take quotes from Jeff and his thoughts on each game. There are quotes from KP saying he likes the triangle but players needed to buy in. Last season we had MDA state that Melo was the one who forced him out. Gave the team an ultimatum which made him quit and that Melo didn't want to play the PF position even though that's what MDA wanted. Yet I didn't put blame on MDA's offense which didn't work with Melo. And I didn't put the blame on Melo either who clearly didn't enjoy playing in MDA's modern style of ball. Makes sense him looking to mix in 2 different styles became difficult given the makeup of the team. Eliminating that aspect clear is more advantageous. Claiming that its the reason i'm not buying. As the triangle has nothing to do with tunnel vision, crappy defense, and poor effort. There is a reason why at the draft we went the complete opposite of a Rose type of player. Why Ron Baker was giving a 2 yr 4 mil extension while passing on a Rondo. Why Sessions and Jack were targeted over resigning Rose. We overhauled basically our whole back court. Why the Knicks didn't just hang on to Melo. Team has added purely coach friendly players this past off season over pure talent. This type of thought process was created based on what happened last season. After loss vs Orlando “If we’re asking a certain guy to pick up at half court, we have to know, is he capable of doing that?” Hornacek said Tuesday. “We might have three guys on the team or four guys that can do that, and the rest of them might not be able to. So we’ve got to put them in those positions that they’re capable of [handling]. We’ve got to figure out how as a team, what we’re going to do that lends to everybody’s capabilities.” After loss vs LA “You have to play for some pride,” Hornacek said. “If you come out there and just play basketball, you’re on the wrong level. These teams come in — it’s New York. You don’t match their effort and energy, you’re not going to win. Right from the start, [the Lakers] out-hustled. They got offensive rebounds, got long balls that bounded around the free-throw line. They got them all. After loss vs Kings "I think they're trying. We might not be good defensively," Hornacek said. "We might have to start figuring out ways to trap and do some gimmicky defenses." Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL: After loss to Nuggets After loss to Suns “I don’t think we came out with the intensity we needed to play the game,” Hornacek said. Press Confrence leading into this season. “The identity has to become defense first,” Hornacek said. “We’re not going to go out and outscore teams. We want to get back to the type of defense that the guys are putting it out there every single night…. You should be embarrassed (if an opponent scores on you). You should feel that guy can’t score on me. That’s the mentality you have every time you’re guarding the guy with the ball. Our team defense will have their rotations that they’ll be responsible for, something we’ll always follow and check up on. We really want to develop that mentality of when that guy has the ball, you’re not scoring on me.” https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
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