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Gamethread: Knicks v Utah
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rpknicks
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11/15/2017  11:44 PM
SocraticBallin22 wrote:If we don't ever figure out how to guard the 3 point line, we will lose a lot of games.

And forget about the Ntilikina/Smith Jr. comparisons, how about Mitchell?

I remember writing a post about him before the draft thinking maybe we can move back and acquire another pick and target him.

Mitchell was definitely in the mix and along with monk should also be a long term comparison for Frank. The knocks on mitchell were that his shot wasn't consistent and he might be caught in between PG and SG with his height and skills. In college, his D and his athleticism was his calling card. Actually tonight his offense looked a little better than his D, but you did see some wildness there too that he has to reign in.

There was some talk about his intangibles leading up to the draft but I think he's shown early on that this may have been under-estimated. He's got a winning attitude and his game just has to catch up.

All that said, Frank has been better than advertised too and he's got to work on his confidence and his penetration. He does not seem like a natural scorer, yet...well he's 19, what the hell. But he's getting better and the fact that you never see him sitting in the 4th quarter tells you what the coach thinks of him.

AUTOADVERT
Zebo13
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11/16/2017  1:17 AM
nixluva wrote:

Love it! He keeps playing like that and we’re not gonna ever able to keep him off the court.

nixluva
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11/16/2017  1:18 AM
rpknicks wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:If we don't ever figure out how to guard the 3 point line, we will lose a lot of games.

And forget about the Ntilikina/Smith Jr. comparisons, how about Mitchell?

I remember writing a post about him before the draft thinking maybe we can move back and acquire another pick and target him.

Mitchell was definitely in the mix and along with monk should also be a long term comparison for Frank. The knocks on mitchell were that his shot wasn't consistent and he might be caught in between PG and SG with his height and skills. In college, his D and his athleticism was his calling card. Actually tonight his offense looked a little better than his D, but you did see some wildness there too that he has to reign in.

There was some talk about his intangibles leading up to the draft but I think he's shown early on that this may have been under-estimated. He's got a winning attitude and his game just has to catch up.

All that said, Frank has been better than advertised too and he's got to work on his confidence and his penetration. He does not seem like a natural scorer, yet...well he's 19, what the hell. But he's getting better and the fact that you never see him sitting in the 4th quarter tells you what the coach thinks of him.

I agree. Frank is closing and helping this team win WITHOUT a serious offensive game yet.

nixluva
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11/16/2017  1:20 AM
Zebo13 wrote:
nixluva wrote:

Love it! He keeps playing like that and we’re not gonna ever able to keep him off the court.

McD came in with such a bad rep on D but he’s REALLY stepped up his game.

Welpee
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11/16/2017  3:53 AM
nixluva wrote:
He still needs to knock down open shots.
nyknickzingis
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11/16/2017  7:25 AM
This was a hell of a game by Tim.
He did exactly what a second option should, especially to a big man. He saw the big man is not scoring at the same level and pace and needed to step up his aggression.

What I love about this year's team, almost everyone knows their role so well. Melo leaving has made such a big impact as has Phil no longer interfering with the coaching. This is a really good rebuild to watch.

We're being competitive, winning games, and also using longterm assets like KP, Hardaway, Frank, Kanter in that process. Hope by season's end we can get some minutes for Willy and Dotson. Ideally if we're rebuilding we want to replace O'Quinn with Willy and get Dotson some of Lee's minutes. This will really help. Also Doug may be a longterm asset as well. He's our restricted free agent and playing quite well.

GoNyGoNyGo
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11/16/2017  7:30 AM
Nice win.

I hope they can learn from this game. They definitely still have issues guarding the 3. It killed them in the 2nd half against Cleveland and last night's first half. The closeouts can be slow or non-existent at times.

Hardaway is starting to look real good. Balanced game. Still has a tendency to hoist some bad shots but I think that will decrease as he gets wiser on the court.

Frank is gettting there. He is starting to get into the lane and they are leaving him open. He has a good shot, so I think he will hit them. THe drive has to be be quicker and more decisive.

Interesting how the team finishes the game with KP at the 5.

Yet another mistake by Dolan. When will it end?
Chandler
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11/16/2017  7:51 AM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Nice win.

I hope they can learn from this game. They definitely still have issues guarding the 3. It killed them in the 2nd half against Cleveland and last night's first half. The closeouts can be slow or non-existent at times.

Hardaway is starting to look real good. Balanced game. Still has a tendency to hoist some bad shots but I think that will decrease as he gets wiser on the court.

Frank is gettting there. He is starting to get into the lane and they are leaving him open. He has a good shot, so I think he will hit them. THe drive has to be be quicker and more decisive.

Interesting how the team finishes the game with KP at the 5.

Regarding KP it looks like they went that way because the other team went small and we wanted better perimeter defense rather than pound them on he boards and down low

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
fishmike
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11/16/2017  10:52 AM
rpknicks wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:If we don't ever figure out how to guard the 3 point line, we will lose a lot of games.

And forget about the Ntilikina/Smith Jr. comparisons, how about Mitchell?

I remember writing a post about him before the draft thinking maybe we can move back and acquire another pick and target him.

Mitchell was definitely in the mix and along with monk should also be a long term comparison for Frank. The knocks on mitchell were that his shot wasn't consistent and he might be caught in between PG and SG with his height and skills. In college, his D and his athleticism was his calling card. Actually tonight his offense looked a little better than his D, but you did see some wildness there too that he has to reign in.

There was some talk about his intangibles leading up to the draft but I think he's shown early on that this may have been under-estimated. He's got a winning attitude and his game just has to catch up.

All that said, Frank has been better than advertised too and he's got to work on his confidence and his penetration. He does not seem like a natural scorer, yet...well he's 19, what the hell. But he's getting better and the fact that you never see him sitting in the 4th quarter tells you what the coach thinks of him.

Mitchell was in the mix for us and I would have been good with him. He's a hell of a BB player. Looks like another Avery Bradley.
WaltLongmire
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11/16/2017  11:53 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:This was a hell of a game by Tim.
He did exactly what a second option should, especially to a big man. He saw the big man is not scoring at the same level and pace and needed to step up his aggression.

What I love about this year's team, almost everyone knows their role so well. Melo leaving has made such a big impact as has Phil no longer interfering with the coaching. This is a really good rebuild to watch.

We're being competitive, winning games, and also using longterm assets like KP, Hardaway, Frank, Kanter in that process. Hope by season's end we can get some minutes for Willy and Dotson. Ideally if we're rebuilding we want to replace O'Quinn with Willy and get Dotson some of Lee's minutes. This will really help. Also Doug may be a longterm asset as well. He's our restricted free agent and playing quite well.


Addition by subtraction.

Guys would not have developed as quickly as they have with Melo on the team. To believe differently is to be obtuse.

In the same way, Phil wanted a certain style, and although I don't think it was necessarily the problem of the Triangle, many players were not as comfortable with the system, and did not play as instinctively as they frequently do this year.

We are still growing as a team on the offensive end, but with Anthony and Jackson still with the Knicks, I doubt if our offense would have been as interesting, and certain players would not have emerged as they have.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Chandler
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11/16/2017  12:05 PM
Serious question: Is Phil watching the current Knicks and approving?

many times he said he wasn't wed to the Triangle so much as system basketball involving player and ball movement

We've been doing that (still room for improvement and more consistency)

it's fun to watch, as is the tenacity

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
nixluva
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11/16/2017  12:50 PM
Chandler wrote:Serious question: Is Phil watching the current Knicks and approving?

many times he said he wasn't wed to the Triangle so much as system basketball involving player and ball movement

We've been doing that (still room for improvement and more consistency)

it's fun to watch, as is the tenacity

Phil would be pleased. People forget that he actually did hire Jeff in the first place! He wanted to hire Kerr! Phil was a bit miscast by the Media IMO! Ball and Player Movement is what he wanted but just cuz of the Triangle people seem to forget that was the goal. Phil wanted KP to post more and he’s been doing that. The Knicks have been much better sharing the ball which is pretty much all he wanted.

WaltLongmire
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11/16/2017  2:21 PM
Chandler wrote:Serious question: Is Phil watching the current Knicks and approving?

many times he said he wasn't wed to the Triangle so much as system basketball involving player and ball movement

We've been doing that (still room for improvement and more consistency)

it's fun to watch, as is the tenacity


Can't believe that he is upset with what he is seeing, and I see elements of the Triangle at times.

We are not a PG dominated team, we spread the ball around, and guys are moving without the ball.

Folks are also playing competitive and helping D...hard to be that upset so far.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
meloshouldgo
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11/16/2017  2:38 PM
nixluva wrote:
Chandler wrote:Serious question: Is Phil watching the current Knicks and approving?

many times he said he wasn't wed to the Triangle so much as system basketball involving player and ball movement

We've been doing that (still room for improvement and more consistency)

it's fun to watch, as is the tenacity

Phil would be pleased. People forget that he actually did hire Jeff in the first place! He wanted to hire Kerr! Phil was a bit miscast by the Media IMO! Ball and Player Movement is what he wanted but just cuz of the Triangle people seem to forget that was the goal. Phil wanted KP to post more and he’s been doing that. The Knicks have been much better sharing the ball which is pretty much all he wanted.

I honestly think this is close to how Phil wanted us to play all along. But he didn't like to see the structure break down and devolve into iso heavy tendencies. So he would probably be calling out THJR at some point if he was still here.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
nixluva
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11/16/2017  6:49 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Chandler wrote:Serious question: Is Phil watching the current Knicks and approving?

many times he said he wasn't wed to the Triangle so much as system basketball involving player and ball movement

We've been doing that (still room for improvement and more consistency)

it's fun to watch, as is the tenacity

Phil would be pleased. People forget that he actually did hire Jeff in the first place! He wanted to hire Kerr! Phil was a bit miscast by the Media IMO! Ball and Player Movement is what he wanted but just cuz of the Triangle people seem to forget that was the goal. Phil wanted KP to post more and he’s been doing that. The Knicks have been much better sharing the ball which is pretty much all he wanted.

I honestly think this is close to how Phil wanted us to play all along. But he didn't like to see the structure break down and devolve into iso heavy tendencies. So he would probably be calling out THJR at some point if he was still here.

For the most part that sounds right. Remember Phil complained about MJ and Kobe when they got out of control. He probably would comment about THJ as well. Mills and Perry won’t say anything even if they’re thinking it. They’ve got a less confrontational approach.

rpknicks
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11/16/2017  6:55 PM
fishmike wrote:
rpknicks wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:If we don't ever figure out how to guard the 3 point line, we will lose a lot of games.

And forget about the Ntilikina/Smith Jr. comparisons, how about Mitchell?

I remember writing a post about him before the draft thinking maybe we can move back and acquire another pick and target him.

Mitchell was definitely in the mix and along with monk should also be a long term comparison for Frank. The knocks on mitchell were that his shot wasn't consistent and he might be caught in between PG and SG with his height and skills. In college, his D and his athleticism was his calling card. Actually tonight his offense looked a little better than his D, but you did see some wildness there too that he has to reign in.

There was some talk about his intangibles leading up to the draft but I think he's shown early on that this may have been under-estimated. He's got a winning attitude and his game just has to catch up.

All that said, Frank has been better than advertised too and he's got to work on his confidence and his penetration. He does not seem like a natural scorer, yet...well he's 19, what the hell. But he's getting better and the fact that you never see him sitting in the 4th quarter tells you what the coach thinks of him.

Mitchell was in the mix for us and I would have been good with him. He's a hell of a BB player. Looks like another Avery Bradley.


Not a bad comparison. Bradley is a starter and a piece but probably never going to be an all-star. And that may be why the knicks didn't take mitchell or any of the other guys. Like KP, in Frank they see a guy who needs time, but has a very high ceiling. If his D is already this far along, they can be patient with the rest of his game.

Zebo13
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11/17/2017  2:55 AM
fishmike wrote:
rpknicks wrote:
SocraticBallin22 wrote:If we don't ever figure out how to guard the 3 point line, we will lose a lot of games.

And forget about the Ntilikina/Smith Jr. comparisons, how about Mitchell?

I remember writing a post about him before the draft thinking maybe we can move back and acquire another pick and target him.

Mitchell was definitely in the mix and along with monk should also be a long term comparison for Frank. The knocks on mitchell were that his shot wasn't consistent and he might be caught in between PG and SG with his height and skills. In college, his D and his athleticism was his calling card. Actually tonight his offense looked a little better than his D, but you did see some wildness there too that he has to reign in.

There was some talk about his intangibles leading up to the draft but I think he's shown early on that this may have been under-estimated. He's got a winning attitude and his game just has to catch up.

All that said, Frank has been better than advertised too and he's got to work on his confidence and his penetration. He does not seem like a natural scorer, yet...well he's 19, what the hell. But he's getting better and the fact that you never see him sitting in the 4th quarter tells you what the coach thinks of him.

Mitchell was in the mix for us and I would have been good with him. He's a hell of a BB player. Looks like another Avery Bradley.

I liked Mitchell too but as I watched the game it seemed like every point we scored he was guarding the scorer. Appeared to be lost defensively, which I thought was a bright spot for him. Maybe he was raking plays off after scoring.

Gamethread: Knicks v Utah

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