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Are we re-establishing ourselves as an attractive destination for the top FAs?
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KnixinSix
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11/12/2017  1:27 PM

If this team keeps this up, we suddenly will be a very attractive option for some of the top FAs this offseason.

According to two of the scenarios I listed in the above spreadsheet the could conceivably create room for 1 and maybe even 2 max contracts. The numbers are pretty close and I assumed a 5 million increase to the cap (which mirrors the increase we saw coming into this season).

Teams that generally win championships in today's NBA have most to all of these main elements:

1.At least 2 of the top 15-20 players in the NBA
2.A very strong role player core to complement the star players which consists of most or all of the following:
-Strong rebounder to do the dirty work
-One or more marksman 3 and D players
-Defenders who can shut down most or all of the 5 positions on the court either off the bench or as one of your star players
3. A very good offensive ball movement system

With KP's emergence, this team has all those elements except for the second superstar. And I believe if they can work something out with OQuinn and/or Kanter opting out and then resigning them after signing their key outside FA they can keep one or both those players by going over the salary cap.

We could have a monster team next year to compete with the big boys if things keep trending positively and KP's cements himself as one of the NBA top superstars.

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Knickoftime
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11/12/2017  1:58 PM
they'll reestablih or not based on season-end results.

Nothing has occurred over the first 14 games that can't up undone over the next 68.

CrushAlot
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11/12/2017  2:08 PM
Knickoftime wrote:they'll reestablih or not based on season-end results.

Nothing has occurred over the first 14 games that can't up undone over the next 68.


The dysfunction is gone. The Knicks are not playing an antiquated offense. It appears that the franchise is going to have a coach complete two full seasons and possibly a third which hasn't happened in a long time (Dantoni?). I think a lot has been fixed.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
Knickoftime
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11/12/2017  2:11 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:they'll reestablih or not based on season-end results.

Nothing has occurred over the first 14 games that can't up undone over the next 68.


The dysfunction is gone. The Knicks are not playing an antiquated offense. It appears that the franchise is going to have a coach complete two full seasons and possibly a third which hasn't happened in a long time (Dantoni?). I think a lot has been fixed.

I hope and think maybe it is. But I've seen too much to not simply wait.

KnixinSix
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11/12/2017  2:14 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/top-50-nba-free-agents-2018-131115656.html

Didn't even realize the other guys who can opt out or are FAs:

1.James (best player in the world, a physical specimen and should play at a dominant level for another 2-3 years)

2.Cousins (dude is a monster and can do everything from the 5 position)- Pelicans have underwhelmed
3.George (2 way player)
4.Paul (2 way player)
5.Durant (don't see him leaving GS, but you never know)

To me even if we tried to stay under for under age 30 players Lebron is an exception (because it's LeBron and he gets teams to the finals practically by himself) this would be one fo thr best rosters hes been on potentially with KP and depending on what else we do roster shuffling. But even for those who don't want over 30. Cousins, George and a small chance for even Durant.

These players aren't the players we've mortgaged the future for in the past. They are all multi-faceted elite stars who are a level above the likes of Stoudemire, Spreewell, MCDyss,Anthony (High volume, lower efficiency, inconsistent D).

GustavBahler
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11/12/2017  2:19 PM
If KP can lead the team this season to the playoffs (as constructed more or less) that should go a long way in getting FAs' attention.

They will know that some of the work in building a good roster, has already been done. They can do more than just help the team get to the playoffs. Maybe help them get to the next level.

WaltLongmire
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11/12/2017  2:37 PM
Depending on our cap situation, I don't see why our roster isn't one FAs would want to be a part of going forward. Everyone knows about KP and what he brings to the floor, and he is only going to get better. We have a good frontline, nice depth, young and younger talent, and a young, team-first PG who isn't going to need the ball all the time to be happy. We also have our draft picks going forward.

Just seems to me that going forward, the Knicks are a team that good players looking for a good young team to play for, will be a consideration.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
KnixinSix
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11/12/2017  2:39 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:they'll reestablih or not based on season-end results.

Nothing has occurred over the first 14 games that can't up undone over the next 68.


The dysfunction is gone. The Knicks are not playing an antiquated offense. It appears that the franchise is going to have a coach complete two full seasons and possibly a third which hasn't happened in a long time (Dantoni?). I think a lot has been fixed.

I hope and think maybe it is. But I've seen too much to not simply wait.

I don't think what we are seeing from KP is a fluke. You are seeing a guy with his otherworldly size ,athletic ability, absolute sweet stroke and BBall IQ coming into his own in his third year and without having to defer anymore to Carmelo.

If he stays healthy that in itself says Knick basketball should be better this year.

Add in the departure of the heavy hand of Jackson trying to force his antiquated triangle and we have a harmonious team and front office sharing the same vision.

Also Kanter's play has been severely underrated. he is a rebounding monster and cannot be stopped under the basket. An amazing complement to KP. You let him opt out then resign him AFTER signing a big fish or two (James,George,Cousins,Paul). If one of the guys you get is Cousins you maybe let Kanter go and sign OQuinn by the same method.

McDermott I think is absolute hustle on the court and in constant motion. He has a very quick release and infinite range.

Loving this team and Hornacek's offense is really taking advantage of our players strengths.

VCoug
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11/12/2017  3:19 PM
Maybe, but we're not going to have much cap space next year. The cap is supposed to stabilize after exploding the past few years so we're only gonna have a few million in cap space, will probably only have the MLE to play with.
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KnixinSix
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11/12/2017  4:02 PM
VCoug wrote:Maybe, but we're not going to have much cap space next year. The cap is supposed to stabilize after exploding the past few years so we're only gonna have a few million in cap space, will probably only have the MLE to play with.

Look at above spreadsheet. Even if the cap doesn't go up (I predicted a 5 mill increase) we still should be at minimum able to create room for 1 max and another decent sized contract. If Perry thinks we can land one of the big studs and believes it means a true contender then it could very likely happen.

VCoug
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11/12/2017  4:15 PM
KnixinSix wrote:
VCoug wrote:Maybe, but we're not going to have much cap space next year. The cap is supposed to stabilize after exploding the past few years so we're only gonna have a few million in cap space, will probably only have the MLE to play with.

Look at above spreadsheet. Even if the cap doesn't go up (I predicted a 5 mill increase) we still should be at minimum able to create room for 1 max and another decent sized contract. If Perry thinks we can land one of the big studs and believes it means a true contender then it could very likely happen.

Scenario 1 requires us to stretch/waive a bunch of players which I'm generally opposed to. Obviously, if a true superstar wants to sign here we should do it but otherwise I would just suck it up. Scenario 2 doesn't work. In order to go over the cap to re-sign Kanter and KOQ we need their Bird rights. That means there will be a cap hold based on their last contract which would be at least $25M. Also, how are we trading Courtney Lee and/or Lance Thomas without taking back a contract?

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HofstraBBall
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11/12/2017  5:01 PM
Young up and coming team with one of the best scorers in the league. If they keep this up......absolutely!
Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
KnixinSix
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11/12/2017  5:01 PM
VCoug wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
VCoug wrote:Maybe, but we're not going to have much cap space next year. The cap is supposed to stabilize after exploding the past few years so we're only gonna have a few million in cap space, will probably only have the MLE to play with.

Look at above spreadsheet. Even if the cap doesn't go up (I predicted a 5 mill increase) we still should be at minimum able to create room for 1 max and another decent sized contract. If Perry thinks we can land one of the big studs and believes it means a true contender then it could very likely happen.

Scenario 1 requires us to stretch/waive a bunch of players which I'm generally opposed to. Obviously, if a true superstar wants to sign here we should do it but otherwise I would just suck it up. Scenario 2 doesn't work. In order to go over the cap to re-sign Kanter and KOQ we need their Bird rights. That means there will be a cap hold based on their last contract which would be at least $25M. Also, how are we trading Courtney Lee and/or Lance Thomas without taking back a contract?

If they opt out and then resign we can't go over the cap to sign them?

VCoug
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11/12/2017  6:01 PM
KnixinSix wrote:
VCoug wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
VCoug wrote:Maybe, but we're not going to have much cap space next year. The cap is supposed to stabilize after exploding the past few years so we're only gonna have a few million in cap space, will probably only have the MLE to play with.

Look at above spreadsheet. Even if the cap doesn't go up (I predicted a 5 mill increase) we still should be at minimum able to create room for 1 max and another decent sized contract. If Perry thinks we can land one of the big studs and believes it means a true contender then it could very likely happen.

Scenario 1 requires us to stretch/waive a bunch of players which I'm generally opposed to. Obviously, if a true superstar wants to sign here we should do it but otherwise I would just suck it up. Scenario 2 doesn't work. In order to go over the cap to re-sign Kanter and KOQ we need their Bird rights. That means there will be a cap hold based on their last contract which would be at least $25M. Also, how are we trading Courtney Lee and/or Lance Thomas without taking back a contract?

If they opt out and then resign we can't go over the cap to sign them?

We can but their Bird rights count against the cap. We don't get that cap space unless we waive their Bird rights and if we do that we can't go over the cap to re-sign them.

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KnixinSix
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11/12/2017  6:18 PM
If we continue playing like we are now, KP proving he is a top 5 player for years to come ( unstoppable force, do it all 7-3 unicorn), playing commited team defense (this team has a bunch of hustle players and plus defenders), we have a very good chance of drafting in the double digits of round 1 for awhile. Unfortunately, the chances of drafting the next superstar outside of the top 10 drops quite a bit.

If we have a shot at the caliber of players we can get this off-season to team up with KP you do it. This isn't max contracts to 1 way scorers like Kevin Love or volume Carmelo , Amare No D Stoutemire, etc. these are superstars that can do multiple key things at elite levels.

Whether we like it or not, Miami won multiple titles by signing the best FAs, Cleveland won by one drafted star (Kyrie) and signing some max FAs. GS brought in Durant.

We have started showing the league that we could very well have the necessary things which make a team attractive to the top players: Good offensive system and coach, possibly and finally a sound front office( and unified vision with what the coach is trying to do), good role players , and a top 5 all NBA young talent on the roster currently.

KnixinSix
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11/12/2017  6:21 PM
VCoug wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
VCoug wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:
VCoug wrote:Maybe, but we're not going to have much cap space next year. The cap is supposed to stabilize after exploding the past few years so we're only gonna have a few million in cap space, will probably only have the MLE to play with.

Look at above spreadsheet. Even if the cap doesn't go up (I predicted a 5 mill increase) we still should be at minimum able to create room for 1 max and another decent sized contract. If Perry thinks we can land one of the big studs and believes it means a true contender then it could very likely happen.

Scenario 1 requires us to stretch/waive a bunch of players which I'm generally opposed to. Obviously, if a true superstar wants to sign here we should do it but otherwise I would just suck it up. Scenario 2 doesn't work. In order to go over the cap to re-sign Kanter and KOQ we need their Bird rights. That means there will be a cap hold based on their last contract which would be at least $25M. Also, how are we trading Courtney Lee and/or Lance Thomas without taking back a contract?

If they opt out and then resign we can't go over the cap to sign them?

We can but their Bird rights count against the cap. We don't get that cap space unless we waive their Bird rights and if we do that we can't go over the cap to re-sign them.

Ahhh, Then that means O'Quinn becomes the much more likely one to do this with.

Jmpasq
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11/12/2017  6:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2017  6:51 PM
KnixinSix wrote:

If this team keeps this up, we suddenly will be a very attractive option for some of the top FAs this offseason.

According to two of the scenarios I listed in the above spreadsheet the could conceivably create room for 1 and maybe even 2 max contracts. The numbers are pretty close and I assumed a 5 million increase to the cap (which mirrors the increase we saw coming into this season).

Teams that generally win championships in today's NBA have most to all of these main elements:

1.At least 2 of the top 15-20 players in the NBA
2.A very strong role player core to complement the star players which consists of most or all of the following:
-Strong rebounder to do the dirty work
-One or more marksman 3 and D players
-Defenders who can shut down most or all of the 5 positions on the court either off the bench or as one of your star players
3. A very good offensive ball movement system

With KP's emergence, this team has all those elements except for the second superstar. And I believe if they can work something out with OQuinn and/or Kanter opting out and then resigning them after signing their key outside FA they can keep one or both those players by going over the salary cap.

We could have a monster team next year to compete with the big boys if things keep trending positively and KP's cements himself as one of the NBA top superstars.


with what cap room? Noah is the only way we get better without giving up a useful piece that hurts the team. The only way to get better is we hit a home run on a SF in the draft. That will determine whether we are a solid 45 win team for the next 5 or so years or a legit championship contender
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
VCoug
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11/12/2017  7:50 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:

If this team keeps this up, we suddenly will be a very attractive option for some of the top FAs this offseason.

According to two of the scenarios I listed in the above spreadsheet the could conceivably create room for 1 and maybe even 2 max contracts. The numbers are pretty close and I assumed a 5 million increase to the cap (which mirrors the increase we saw coming into this season).

Teams that generally win championships in today's NBA have most to all of these main elements:

1.At least 2 of the top 15-20 players in the NBA
2.A very strong role player core to complement the star players which consists of most or all of the following:
-Strong rebounder to do the dirty work
-One or more marksman 3 and D players
-Defenders who can shut down most or all of the 5 positions on the court either off the bench or as one of your star players
3. A very good offensive ball movement system

With KP's emergence, this team has all those elements except for the second superstar. And I believe if they can work something out with OQuinn and/or Kanter opting out and then resigning them after signing their key outside FA they can keep one or both those players by going over the salary cap.

We could have a monster team next year to compete with the big boys if things keep trending positively and KP's cements himself as one of the NBA top superstars.


with what cap room? Noah is the only way we get better without giving up a useful piece that hurts the team. The only way to get better is we hit a home run on a SF in the draft. That will determine whether we are a solid 45 win team for the next 5 or so years or a legit championship contender

Yeah, we need Nicotine to pan out and we need to get a wing from somewhere. I'd like to trade for Hezonja because I still think he could be something and I'm assuming Orlando would be willing to basically give him away.

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KnixinSix
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11/12/2017  8:08 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
KnixinSix wrote:

If this team keeps this up, we suddenly will be a very attractive option for some of the top FAs this offseason.

According to two of the scenarios I listed in the above spreadsheet the could conceivably create room for 1 and maybe even 2 max contracts. The numbers are pretty close and I assumed a 5 million increase to the cap (which mirrors the increase we saw coming into this season).

Teams that generally win championships in today's NBA have most to all of these main elements:

1.At least 2 of the top 15-20 players in the NBA
2.A very strong role player core to complement the star players which consists of most or all of the following:
-Strong rebounder to do the dirty work
-One or more marksman 3 and D players
-Defenders who can shut down most or all of the 5 positions on the court either off the bench or as one of your star players
3. A very good offensive ball movement system

With KP's emergence, this team has all those elements except for the second superstar. And I believe if they can work something out with OQuinn and/or Kanter opting out and then resigning them after signing their key outside FA they can keep one or both those players by going over the salary cap.

We could have a monster team next year to compete with the big boys if things keep trending positively and KP's cements himself as one of the NBA top superstars.


with what cap room? Noah is the only way we get better without giving up a useful piece that hurts the team. The only way to get better is we hit a home run on a SF in the draft. That will determine whether we are a solid 45 win team for the next 5 or so years or a legit championship contender

Check out the chart Cap room is available should we choose to make it. If KP keeps this up, I think the top guys are going to want to play here.

KnixinSix
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11/13/2017  1:50 PM
Let's say this start is for real and KP proves himself to be a top 5 player in the NBA, Hornacek proves to be a legit coach with a good ball movement system,the Front office is harmonious (shares a unified vision), and subsequently The Mecca again is an attractive destination for a top FA.

Would this general team let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract) and adding LeBron legitimately vie for a championship?

Roughly speaking:

Oquinn/Henrnangomez
KP
Lebron/Hardaway
Lee/Hardaway/Dotson
Frank/Jack or FA

And a decent to deep bench?

With KP and LeBron both being two way top 5 players in the NBA and good role players around them+ a second year Frank running the point, I say yes.

-OR- let's say (minus Kanter ,keeping OQuinn,waive/stretching Noah's contract,trading or stretching Lee) and adding Cousins and George?

Roughly speaking:

Cousins/Oquinn/Henrnangomez
K.P.
Paul George/Hardaway
Hardaway/Dotson
Frank/Jack or FA

And a decent to deep bench?

Are we re-establishing ourselves as an attractive destination for the top FAs?

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