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Quasi-OT: Bledsoe for Monroe and protected picks / Monroe vs O'Quinn
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technomaster
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11/8/2017  3:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/8/2017  3:29 PM
Anyone surprised by Phoenix's light-ish haul for Bledsoe? Just a few short years ago Monroe was the prize of the FA crop. A year into his tenure with the Bucks, he found himself on the bench and had fallen in Jason Kidd's rotation, basically in a role similar to O'Quinn's!

Anyone want to compare Monroe and O'Quinn? Both are big bruisers, big beards, great passing big men.

Who's the better player? If they're both FA's, does that mean O'Quinn is a $15-20million/year sort of player? Or is Monroe going to get a pay cut in today's salary climate? (trying to figure out whether we can even envision O'Quinn in a Knicks uniform next season)

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Knixkik
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11/8/2017  4:05 PM
Monroe is a better player. The guy is a 20/10 player when he sees minutes. Defense of course is the issue. But he is capable of carrying an offense for stretches. O'Quinn is strictly a role player, and a very good one. Both will suffer to make big money because they aren't super athletic and/or good 3pt shooters. They are more along the lines of traditional big men, and out of flavor. Monroe probably makes more in the open market but it's all about fit and opportunity.
fishmike
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11/8/2017  4:32 PM
Knixkik wrote:Monroe is a better player. The guy is a 20/10 player when he sees minutes. Defense of course is the issue. But he is capable of carrying an offense for stretches. O'Quinn is strictly a role player, and a very good one. Both will suffer to make big money because they aren't super athletic and/or good 3pt shooters. They are more along the lines of traditional big men, and out of flavor. Monroe probably makes more in the open market but it's all about fit and opportunity.
its funny. Funny because your right.. Monroe is better. Just better enough to hurt you. Better enough to be a starter, where he's mediocre and doesnt have a huge impact. KOQ on the other hand is not a starter, but he knows his role and has a high impact as a bench guy.

So yea... Monroe is better, but if Monroe is your starter its a negative. If KOQ is your backup its a positive.

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Swishfm3
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11/8/2017  4:53 PM
I think Monroe doesn't fit the system that Jason Kidd is implementing in Milwaukee, which was the cause of his below avg play there.

With that being said...I read a report yesterday saying that the Suns don't want Monroe either and are looking into a trade/buyout in hopes of securing Okafor in another move.

TripleThreat
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11/8/2017  5:01 PM
technomaster wrote:Anyone surprised by Phoenix's light-ish haul for Bledsoe?

"Details on pick – Suns only get pick in 2018 if it is between 11 and 16. If not it rolls over to 2019 where they would only get it if 4-16

— John Gambadoro (@Gambo987) November 7, 2017

If pick rolls over to 2020 it is protected 1-7. In 2021 the pick would be completely unprotected.

— John Gambadoro (@Gambo987) November 7, 2017

Per Woj, the second round pick is top-47 protected and does not carry over into 2019 if it does not convey this year."


The first round pick is likely to convey in 2019, as a pick in the "20's range"

The option was for Bledsoe to stay and poison the lockerroom, worse, allow his agent, Rich Paul ( and LBJ) of Klutch Sports to get his hands on trying to poach Devin Booker and/or Josh Jackson and turning it into a giant riot act.

Open cap space is going to be a really valuable asset the next couple of offseasons. Also first round picks are essentially cost control labor with built in cost certainty.

It's not a great deal for the Suns, but it opens up some flexibility for them.

But league wide, stuff like this is just going to trigger another labor war. Players are holding teams hostage, and while the league might tolerate it, the networks will not. Top heavy teams mean more playoff blowouts, which means fewer playoff games, which means less revenue for the networks and the host cities. The networks have relationships with the big brands and the big brands control the elite NBA players, who drive most of the marketing. When the networks are unhappy, the bubble has to pop and things are going to change.

Bledsoe, within the NBA marketplace, is on a "middle class" contract. He's not cost controlled like a rookie and he's not in max territory. However he just did his best to functionally eliminate the marketplace push for middle class contracts for all players moving into the future.

Rich Paul is killing the golden goose for everyone here. He's at a point now where he should consider getting a new identity and running to another country. He's made enemies of the owners, the league administration, the brands, the networks and now the NBAPA. You've seen Entourage on HBO? This is what happens when you let Turtle get some kind of power. Some fringe hanger on with no real smarts or understanding who is a power player because a mega star trusts him.

Some dude who LBJ thinks is cool to hang out with is going to help destroy the NBA. Lovely.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
BRIGGS
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11/8/2017  5:08 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
technomaster wrote:Anyone surprised by Phoenix's light-ish haul for Bledsoe?

"Details on pick – Suns only get pick in 2018 if it is between 11 and 16. If not it rolls over to 2019 where they would only get it if 4-16

— John Gambadoro (@Gambo987) November 7, 2017

If pick rolls over to 2020 it is protected 1-7. In 2021 the pick would be completely unprotected.

— John Gambadoro (@Gambo987) November 7, 2017

Per Woj, the second round pick is top-47 protected and does not carry over into 2019 if it does not convey this year."


The first round pick is likely to convey in 2019, as a pick in the "20's range"

The option was for Bledsoe to stay and poison the lockerroom, worse, allow his agent, Rich Paul ( and LBJ) of Klutch Sports to get his hands on trying to poach Devin Booker and/or Josh Jackson and turning it into a giant riot act.

Open cap space is going to be a really valuable asset the next couple of offseasons. Also first round picks are essentially cost control labor with built in cost certainty.

It's not a great deal for the Suns, but it opens up some flexibility for them.

But league wide, stuff like this is just going to trigger another labor war. Players are holding teams hostage, and while the league might tolerate it, the networks will not. Top heavy teams mean more playoff blowouts, which means fewer playoff games, which means less revenue for the networks and the host cities. The networks have relationships with the big brands and the big brands control the elite NBA players, who drive most of the marketing. When the networks are unhappy, the bubble has to pop and things are going to change.

Bledsoe, within the NBA marketplace, is on a "middle class" contract. He's not cost controlled like a rookie and he's not in max territory. However he just did his best to functionally eliminate the marketplace push for middle class contracts for all players moving into the future.

Rich Paul is killing the golden goose for everyone here. He's at a point now where he should consider getting a new identity and running to another country. He's made enemies of the owners, the league administration, the brands, the networks and now the NBAPA. You've seen Entourage on HBO? This is what happens when you let Turtle get some kind of power. Some fringe hanger on with no real smarts or understanding who is a power player because a mega star trusts him.

Some dude who LBJ thinks is cool to hang out with is going to help destroy the NBA. Lovely.

That is risky in 2019. They stink and end up with pick #5 ummm bad move. There's atleast a reasonable chance it conveys this year. The Bucks already have a good PG--I dont know what they were thinking here.

nyk4ever
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11/8/2017  5:21 PM
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=57508
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Knixkik
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11/8/2017  5:31 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Monroe is a better player. The guy is a 20/10 player when he sees minutes. Defense of course is the issue. But he is capable of carrying an offense for stretches. O'Quinn is strictly a role player, and a very good one. Both will suffer to make big money because they aren't super athletic and/or good 3pt shooters. They are more along the lines of traditional big men, and out of flavor. Monroe probably makes more in the open market but it's all about fit and opportunity.
its funny. Funny because your right.. Monroe is better. Just better enough to hurt you. Better enough to be a starter, where he's mediocre and doesnt have a huge impact. KOQ on the other hand is not a starter, but he knows his role and has a high impact as a bench guy.

So yea... Monroe is better, but if Monroe is your starter its a negative. If KOQ is your backup its a positive.

That's a great way to put it. It goes hand and hand with today's NBA. 10 years ago, you build an offense around Monroe's skillset. Obviously you could never do that with O'Quinn. Now, the league thinks differently and realizes that his numbers mislead what is actual impact is. O'Quinn's has a much greatest impact in comparison to his numbers.

Quasi-OT: Bledsoe for Monroe and protected picks / Monroe vs O'Quinn

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