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what makes KP and Kanter complement each other so well
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Chandler
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11/7/2017  9:54 AM
I am convinced of the merits of this pairing. Indeed I have a tough time thinking of a better pairing (e.g., Deandre would bring more defense but horrible FTs, more limited offense...)

So what makes them work so well together?

My theory is that Kanter is so intense in the paint (offensive end) that he completely consumes his defender (who would also happen to be the most bruising defender) and half consumes whatever other defender thinking of help defense

This makes it that much easier to move for his midrange game (plus generally have a weaker defender on him)

On the defensive end, Kanter has the ability to limit his focus. KP can be the rim protector, and Kanter can stay a little more focused, limit mistakes

Lastly, I think they both set the tone for the other. KP gets to see Kanter's intensity on the glass and move toward that; Kanter (to a lesser degree) sees KP focusing on both ends of the floor and seems to be taking defense more seriously (i.e., not happy trading baskets)

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
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ekstarks94
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11/7/2017  10:14 AM
I absolutely agree with this assessment....could not be captured/said better.
fishmike
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11/7/2017  10:19 AM
yea spot on. I have argued since he's been here KP should be a 4 not a 5. If you pair him with Kanter you MUST put your most rugged guy on him or you will be consumed in the paint and on the boards. The key is good defense on the wings. You can expect to have KP and Kanter chasing penetrating guards all day. But we have seen when our wings are locking it down that this size becomes a true force.

Keep a big center next to KP. That means resign Kanter, move KOQ for wing help and keep Noah/Willy as backup/bench or even a little time at the 4.
Keep the focus on building defense on the wings. Frank is obviously a revelation. Dotson appears to be defensive minded and a great athlete. If we could find a young athletic 2-way wing in the draft or open market that would push us along as well.

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Knixkik
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11/7/2017  10:24 AM
You are absolutely right with your assessment. He consumes his defender and it gives KP complete freedom on offense. He also is a tireless rebounder, which allows KP to not burn as much energy fighting for boards. He is really the ideal fit, with exception of his mediocre defense. But he checks off all of the other boxes. Very few big men would make a better pairing. Outside of a couple of obvious star players, the only name that stands out to me would be Al Horford. I can't think of any other bigs that compliment KP as well as Kanter. And he's only 25 years old. We may have stumbled on something pretty special.
Chandler
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11/7/2017  11:52 AM
fishmike wrote:yea spot on. I have argued since he's been here KP should be a 4 not a 5. If you pair him with Kanter you MUST put your most rugged guy on him or you will be consumed in the paint and on the boards. The key is good defense on the wings. You can expect to have KP and Kanter chasing penetrating guards all day. But we have seen when our wings are locking it down that this size becomes a true force.

Keep a big center next to KP. That means resign Kanter, move KOQ for wing help and keep Noah/Willy as backup/bench or even a little time at the 4.
Keep the focus on building defense on the wings. Frank is obviously a revelation. Dotson appears to be defensive minded and a great athlete. If we could find a young athletic 2-way wing in the draft or open market that would push us along as well.

FWIW this is why I think it's a mistake to move Kanter. KOQ, Noah, and even Willy don't complement in the same way even though they have commendable skills. E.g., KOQ and Noah, and to a lesser degree, do not command the attention in the low post the same way. Thus KP more likely to get thugged up, double teamed

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
fishmike
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11/7/2017  12:23 PM
Chandler wrote:
fishmike wrote:yea spot on. I have argued since he's been here KP should be a 4 not a 5. If you pair him with Kanter you MUST put your most rugged guy on him or you will be consumed in the paint and on the boards. The key is good defense on the wings. You can expect to have KP and Kanter chasing penetrating guards all day. But we have seen when our wings are locking it down that this size becomes a true force.

Keep a big center next to KP. That means resign Kanter, move KOQ for wing help and keep Noah/Willy as backup/bench or even a little time at the 4.
Keep the focus on building defense on the wings. Frank is obviously a revelation. Dotson appears to be defensive minded and a great athlete. If we could find a young athletic 2-way wing in the draft or open market that would push us along as well.

FWIW this is why I think it's a mistake to move Kanter. KOQ, Noah, and even Willy don't complement in the same way even though they have commendable skills. E.g., KOQ and Noah, and to a lesser degree, do not command the attention in the low post the same way. Thus KP more likely to get thugged up, double teamed

Im open to a few possibilities. Trading Kanter is one of them. Its just about looking for areas to improve and much depends on how you value Willy. If you watched him this summer he looked like a center of the future who could man that spot for the next 10 years plus. We know he's a great rebounder, passer and scorer. Defense remains a question but like Kanter he's willing.

Im great with keeping Kanter long term, assuming this trend continues and I think it can. I think he's energized by playing and living here. He cant get closer to home. These things matter.

Whatever direction we take I hope we are able to capitalize on assets along the way. IF we arent resigning KOQ what can we get for him? I do understand you dont get something for every player you lose, and there is some natural progression. Maybe we simply get what we can from KOQ, he resigns somewhere else and next year those minutes are Willy/Noah to fight over. That might be ok also.

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fishmike
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11/7/2017  12:26 PM
put it this way. I am very committed to keeping quality talent at center next to KP. That is #1 for me. Kanter certainly fits into that context. So does KOQ and Willy. Even Noah in some regards. It will be interesting to see how the FO navigates this.
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Knixkik
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11/7/2017  12:28 PM
fishmike wrote:
Chandler wrote:
fishmike wrote:yea spot on. I have argued since he's been here KP should be a 4 not a 5. If you pair him with Kanter you MUST put your most rugged guy on him or you will be consumed in the paint and on the boards. The key is good defense on the wings. You can expect to have KP and Kanter chasing penetrating guards all day. But we have seen when our wings are locking it down that this size becomes a true force.

Keep a big center next to KP. That means resign Kanter, move KOQ for wing help and keep Noah/Willy as backup/bench or even a little time at the 4.
Keep the focus on building defense on the wings. Frank is obviously a revelation. Dotson appears to be defensive minded and a great athlete. If we could find a young athletic 2-way wing in the draft or open market that would push us along as well.

FWIW this is why I think it's a mistake to move Kanter. KOQ, Noah, and even Willy don't complement in the same way even though they have commendable skills. E.g., KOQ and Noah, and to a lesser degree, do not command the attention in the low post the same way. Thus KP more likely to get thugged up, double teamed

Im open to a few possibilities. Trading Kanter is one of them. Its just about looking for areas to improve and much depends on how you value Willy. If you watched him this summer he looked like a center of the future who could man that spot for the next 10 years plus. We know he's a great rebounder, passer and scorer. Defense remains a question but like Kanter he's willing.

Im great with keeping Kanter long term, assuming this trend continues and I think it can. I think he's energized by playing and living here. He cant get closer to home. These things matter.

Whatever direction we take I hope we are able to capitalize on assets along the way. IF we arent resigning KOQ what can we get for him? I do understand you dont get something for every player you lose, and there is some natural progression. Maybe we simply get what we can from KOQ, he resigns somewhere else and next year those minutes are Willy/Noah to fight over. That might be ok also.


I think the combination of Kanter/Willy at center long-term works well. KP can slide to center a little bit too. Noah serves as 3rd string, situational backup. O'Quinn probably gets moved. We just can't deal Kanter and assume we can replace his value at center. What he is doing has been incredible. We won't be able to trade him and get as much improvement in another area as we will risk losing.
Chandler
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11/7/2017  12:54 PM
fishmike wrote:
Chandler wrote:
fishmike wrote:yea spot on. I have argued since he's been here KP should be a 4 not a 5. If you pair him with Kanter you MUST put your most rugged guy on him or you will be consumed in the paint and on the boards. The key is good defense on the wings. You can expect to have KP and Kanter chasing penetrating guards all day. But we have seen when our wings are locking it down that this size becomes a true force.

Keep a big center next to KP. That means resign Kanter, move KOQ for wing help and keep Noah/Willy as backup/bench or even a little time at the 4.
Keep the focus on building defense on the wings. Frank is obviously a revelation. Dotson appears to be defensive minded and a great athlete. If we could find a young athletic 2-way wing in the draft or open market that would push us along as well.

FWIW this is why I think it's a mistake to move Kanter. KOQ, Noah, and even Willy don't complement in the same way even though they have commendable skills. E.g., KOQ and Noah, and to a lesser degree, do not command the attention in the low post the same way. Thus KP more likely to get thugged up, double teamed

Im open to a few possibilities. Trading Kanter is one of them. Its just about looking for areas to improve and much depends on how you value Willy. If you watched him this summer he looked like a center of the future who could man that spot for the next 10 years plus. We know he's a great rebounder, passer and scorer. Defense remains a question but like Kanter he's willing.

Im great with keeping Kanter long term, assuming this trend continues and I think it can. I think he's energized by playing and living here. He cant get closer to home. These things matter.

Whatever direction we take I hope we are able to capitalize on assets along the way. IF we arent resigning KOQ what can we get for him? I do understand you dont get something for every player you lose, and there is some natural progression. Maybe we simply get what we can from KOQ, he resigns somewhere else and next year those minutes are Willy/Noah to fight over. That might be ok also.


If I were supreme ruler, I would be using a three-headed approach to center (BTW Bulls used to use 3).

I'd have Kanter and KP starting: the force is strong.

I'd tell Willy to stop sulking and start thinking 6th man. He can be a PnR partner with a more offensive focus, playing to his strengths, getting more touches

I'd have KOQ playing backups to center and pf as need be

Plenty of fouls to give; moment center eases up on energy, next guy up

Noah is the odd man out. Personally (and perhaps because I can't help myself from being overly optimistic) I think he still has value, but given his age and skill set he has to go. If someone offered us a whopper for Willy or KOQ we'd have to consider it and then think of Noah as 3d

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
TripleThreat
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11/7/2017  1:00 PM
Chandler wrote:I am convinced of the merits of this pairing.


When I was in the NFL, this is a methodology that I know a lot of the scouts used back then. I don't know what they specifically called it, I called it the "Anomaly Test"

Take either the entire unit or side of the ball or entire team if you have to, and if you want to evaluate one single player, imagine him on a roster where everyone else in said unit is "Replacement Level" i.e. exactly at league average.

Think of Scott Brosius with the Yankees, not his Yankee dynasty years, but just about every other year of his 3B MLB career. He was basically a league average 3B. Imagine a roster full of those types. Serviceable. Useful, but not elite and not creating more answers than questions.

You don't judge Kanter's individual value by measuring him just paired to Zinger. You judge him if he was on the floor with four REPLACEMENT LEVEL players. And this is where the problem begins. You pull Zinger off the roster or he gets injured, and you stick a league average guy in his place and all the warts about Kanter will start to show up.

You should pay a guy based on what he can do given the "Anomaly Test" where he is the outlier against the league average given market conditions. Not what he can do based on some very specific volatile circumstances that are fluid and have no projectible consistency.

Yes, he's playing pretty good now. Happy for him, happy for the Knicks. But it's only been a few games and it doesn't wash away his previous years of NBA production and history and question marks.

You don't buy an engagement ring after one great blowjob do you? (Well maybe some of you guys would, which would actually explain quite a bit....)

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
nyknickzingis
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11/7/2017  1:05 PM
Kanter is a low post scorer, bruiser, physical rebound guy. If the 5 leaves Kanter, then Kanter will dominate inside. This allows KP to operate from the other side of the post, in a mid-post/mid-range area.

Defensively, I don't think they are a great pairing, but I am seeing better effort from the team on that end. It helps our bigs a great deal as in comparison to last year, the smalls don't let their man just blow by or lose them easily. Kanter covers ground pretty well.

Overall, I think the Porzingis/Kanter frontline is one of the best in the league. Quite a load.

SupremeCommander
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11/7/2017  1:06 PM
Chandler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Chandler wrote:
fishmike wrote:yea spot on. I have argued since he's been here KP should be a 4 not a 5. If you pair him with Kanter you MUST put your most rugged guy on him or you will be consumed in the paint and on the boards. The key is good defense on the wings. You can expect to have KP and Kanter chasing penetrating guards all day. But we have seen when our wings are locking it down that this size becomes a true force.

Keep a big center next to KP. That means resign Kanter, move KOQ for wing help and keep Noah/Willy as backup/bench or even a little time at the 4.
Keep the focus on building defense on the wings. Frank is obviously a revelation. Dotson appears to be defensive minded and a great athlete. If we could find a young athletic 2-way wing in the draft or open market that would push us along as well.

FWIW this is why I think it's a mistake to move Kanter. KOQ, Noah, and even Willy don't complement in the same way even though they have commendable skills. E.g., KOQ and Noah, and to a lesser degree, do not command the attention in the low post the same way. Thus KP more likely to get thugged up, double teamed

Im open to a few possibilities. Trading Kanter is one of them. Its just about looking for areas to improve and much depends on how you value Willy. If you watched him this summer he looked like a center of the future who could man that spot for the next 10 years plus. We know he's a great rebounder, passer and scorer. Defense remains a question but like Kanter he's willing.

Im great with keeping Kanter long term, assuming this trend continues and I think it can. I think he's energized by playing and living here. He cant get closer to home. These things matter.

Whatever direction we take I hope we are able to capitalize on assets along the way. IF we arent resigning KOQ what can we get for him? I do understand you dont get something for every player you lose, and there is some natural progression. Maybe we simply get what we can from KOQ, he resigns somewhere else and next year those minutes are Willy/Noah to fight over. That might be ok also.


If I were supreme ruler, I would be using a three-headed approach to center (BTW Bulls used to use 3).

I'd have Kanter and KP starting: the force is strong.

I'd tell Willy to stop sulking and start thinking 6th man. He can be a PnR partner with a more offensive focus, playing to his strengths, getting more touches

I'd have KOQ playing backups to center and pf as need be

Plenty of fouls to give; moment center eases up on energy, next guy up

Noah is the odd man out. Personally (and perhaps because I can't help myself from being overly optimistic) I think he still has value, but given his age and skill set he has to go. If someone offered us a whopper for Willy or KOQ we'd have to consider it and then think of Noah as 3d

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
fishmike
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11/7/2017  1:07 PM
Knixkik wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Chandler wrote:
fishmike wrote:yea spot on. I have argued since he's been here KP should be a 4 not a 5. If you pair him with Kanter you MUST put your most rugged guy on him or you will be consumed in the paint and on the boards. The key is good defense on the wings. You can expect to have KP and Kanter chasing penetrating guards all day. But we have seen when our wings are locking it down that this size becomes a true force.

Keep a big center next to KP. That means resign Kanter, move KOQ for wing help and keep Noah/Willy as backup/bench or even a little time at the 4.
Keep the focus on building defense on the wings. Frank is obviously a revelation. Dotson appears to be defensive minded and a great athlete. If we could find a young athletic 2-way wing in the draft or open market that would push us along as well.

FWIW this is why I think it's a mistake to move Kanter. KOQ, Noah, and even Willy don't complement in the same way even though they have commendable skills. E.g., KOQ and Noah, and to a lesser degree, do not command the attention in the low post the same way. Thus KP more likely to get thugged up, double teamed

Im open to a few possibilities. Trading Kanter is one of them. Its just about looking for areas to improve and much depends on how you value Willy. If you watched him this summer he looked like a center of the future who could man that spot for the next 10 years plus. We know he's a great rebounder, passer and scorer. Defense remains a question but like Kanter he's willing.

Im great with keeping Kanter long term, assuming this trend continues and I think it can. I think he's energized by playing and living here. He cant get closer to home. These things matter.

Whatever direction we take I hope we are able to capitalize on assets along the way. IF we arent resigning KOQ what can we get for him? I do understand you dont get something for every player you lose, and there is some natural progression. Maybe we simply get what we can from KOQ, he resigns somewhere else and next year those minutes are Willy/Noah to fight over. That might be ok also.


I think the combination of Kanter/Willy at center long-term works well. KP can slide to center a little bit too. Noah serves as 3rd string, situational backup. O'Quinn probably gets moved. We just can't deal Kanter and assume we can replace his value at center. What he is doing has been incredible. We won't be able to trade him and get as much improvement in another area as we will risk losing.
sure. Is it sustainable? Looking at Kanter's career he appears to be worth paying starter money even if he's splitting mins with another player.

Let me put it this way... if given the choice and pushed to decide I would lock up Kanter now and figure it out later.

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SupremeCommander
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11/7/2017  1:10 PM
I think a lot of us were apprehensive about the pairing at first because we weren't convinced that KP would take huge strides defensively... which he has

Similarly, I don't think Kanter has been as poor as advertised defensively... I think he's improved his d, as well as his conditioning. In the past he's been asked to be the go-to-scorer on the second team. He isn't being asked to do that anymore and he probably has more to give on the defensive side

I definitely would not have anticipated this pairing working, but it certainly is, and I would have no problem keeping this together. Some of the best advice I ever got in my life was 'don't question the blessings' and this falls into that bucket

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
fishmike
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11/7/2017  1:29 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:I think a lot of us were apprehensive about the pairing at first because we weren't convinced that KP would take huge strides defensively... which he has

Similarly, I don't think Kanter has been as poor as advertised defensively... I think he's improved his d, as well as his conditioning. In the past he's been asked to be the go-to-scorer on the second team. He isn't being asked to do that anymore and he probably has more to give on the defensive side

I definitely would not have anticipated this pairing working, but it certainly is, and I would have no problem keeping this together. Some of the best advice I ever got in my life was 'don't question the blessings' and this falls into that bucket


dont put too much into this pairing. Much of KP and Kanter's improved defense is because Lee/THj/Jack/Frank/Lance/McD/etc have done a good job and are playing defense at full speed. I think its all about the wings. Build the perimeter defense and our size can clean up. Cant ask KP/Kanter/KOQ to be the defense. Its gotta start on the wings. When it does and the bigs are supporting it looks great.
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Chandler
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11/7/2017  1:35 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Chandler wrote:I am convinced of the merits of this pairing.


When I was in the NFL, this is a methodology that I know a lot of the scouts used back then. I don't know what they specifically called it, I called it the "Anomaly Test"

Take either the entire unit or side of the ball or entire team if you have to, and if you want to evaluate one single player, imagine him on a roster where everyone else in said unit is "Replacement Level" i.e. exactly at league average.

Think of Scott Brosius with the Yankees, not his Yankee dynasty years, but just about every other year of his 3B MLB career. He was basically a league average 3B. Imagine a roster full of those types. Serviceable. Useful, but not elite and not creating more answers than questions.

You don't judge Kanter's individual value by measuring him just paired to Zinger. You judge him if he was on the floor with four REPLACEMENT LEVEL players. And this is where the problem begins. You pull Zinger off the roster or he gets injured, and you stick a league average guy in his place and all the warts about Kanter will start to show up.

You should pay a guy based on what he can do given the "Anomaly Test" where he is the outlier against the league average given market conditions. Not what he can do based on some very specific volatile circumstances that are fluid and have no projectible consistency.

Yes, he's playing pretty good now. Happy for him, happy for the Knicks. But it's only been a few games and it doesn't wash away his previous years of NBA production and history and question marks.

You don't buy an engagement ring after one great blowjob do you? (Well maybe some of you guys would, which would actually explain quite a bit....)

I agree with a lot of what you say 0-- and on the last point I guess it matters how great it was. :-)

But it's also the case that great teams are just that, "teams" -- not assemblies of random pieces.

there is a real synergy with Kanter and KP. Kanter is hiding some of KP's warts, and vice versa

Celtics (who I respect but also hate) have been very good at hiding players warts and playing to their strengths. That's why I would never want to trade with the Celtics. You're getting someone in the hope that he'll play for you like he did for the c's and then when he arrives he plays for you just like he played for everyone else (except for the Cs --- IT comes to mind, perhaps Crowder too)

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
fishmike
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11/7/2017  1:56 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Chandler wrote:I am convinced of the merits of this pairing.


When I was in the NFL, this is a methodology that I know a lot of the scouts used back then. I don't know what they specifically called it, I called it the "Anomaly Test"

Take either the entire unit or side of the ball or entire team if you have to, and if you want to evaluate one single player, imagine him on a roster where everyone else in said unit is "Replacement Level" i.e. exactly at league average.

Think of Scott Brosius with the Yankees, not his Yankee dynasty years, but just about every other year of his 3B MLB career. He was basically a league average 3B. Imagine a roster full of those types. Serviceable. Useful, but not elite and not creating more answers than questions.

You don't judge Kanter's individual value by measuring him just paired to Zinger. You judge him if he was on the floor with four REPLACEMENT LEVEL players. And this is where the problem begins. You pull Zinger off the roster or he gets injured, and you stick a league average guy in his place and all the warts about Kanter will start to show up.

You should pay a guy based on what he can do given the "Anomaly Test" where he is the outlier against the league average given market conditions. Not what he can do based on some very specific volatile circumstances that are fluid and have no projectible consistency.

Yes, he's playing pretty good now. Happy for him, happy for the Knicks. But it's only been a few games and it doesn't wash away his previous years of NBA production and history and question marks.

You don't buy an engagement ring after one great blowjob do you? (Well maybe some of you guys would, which would actually explain quite a bit....)


So no consideration to fit, chemistry, team building or complimenting skill sets? Sorry dude but your approach is not sound. These are not values in an excel spreadsheet, they are humans working with other humans.

First the goal is to acquire high impact talent. You dont win without players that can impose their will on their opponents. Then when you have some of that you start looking at ways to maximize its impact every night. To ensure it cant be schemed against. You see where I am going with this? KP is emerging as just such a player. What ensures the Knicks ability to capitalize on it nightly?

Teams dont get to work in a vacuum. Knicks will have to decide if Kanter and other players make sense or not. Do they fit the style of play? The personnel? These are sensible factors and questions.

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LivingLegend
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11/7/2017  1:59 PM
Agree with initial poster -- Kanter plays with so much energy/passion/effort/physicality that he is simply requiring a lot of attention -- plus he is doing dirty-work where KP can then use his tremendous size/athleticism to make the highlight type skill plays.

Kanter & KP -- are a nice match ===== Willy in no way shape or form would provide such a dynamic contrast to KP.

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11/7/2017  2:42 PM
LivingLegend wrote:Agree with initial poster -- Kanter plays with so much energy/passion/effort/physicality that he is simply requiring a lot of attention -- plus he is doing dirty-work where KP can then use his tremendous size/athleticism to make the highlight type skill plays.

Kanter & KP -- are a nice match ===== Willy in no way shape or form would provide such a dynamic contrast to KP.

Willy would still add something good next to KP IMO. It's just a little different. Willy has a little more developing to do, but his raw talent is still pretty darned high. He's a very good rebounder and post player. Sets excellent Picks. Is a very good Roll Man in PnR. Willy looks like he could be a good passer as well. Willy has the beginnings of a perimeter game. He has a High IQ as well.

Kanter is just so darned PHYSICAL and a bit more mature than Willy so he's ready for a starting role. Willy needs to be groomed to provide a similar level of production. He's worth the effort of further development.

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11/7/2017  2:48 PM
nixluva wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:Agree with initial poster -- Kanter plays with so much energy/passion/effort/physicality that he is simply requiring a lot of attention -- plus he is doing dirty-work where KP can then use his tremendous size/athleticism to make the highlight type skill plays.

Kanter & KP -- are a nice match ===== Willy in no way shape or form would provide such a dynamic contrast to KP.

Willy would still add something good next to KP IMO. It's just a little different. Willy has a little more developing to do, but his raw talent is still pretty darned high. He's a very good rebounder and post player. Sets excellent Picks. Is a very good Roll Man in PnR. Willy looks like he could be a good passer as well. Willy has the beginnings of a perimeter game. He has a High IQ as well.

Kanter is just so darned PHYSICAL and a bit more mature than Willy so he's ready for a starting role. Willy needs to be groomed to provide a similar level of production. He's worth the effort of further development.

Nix why wouldn't you want Willy as a 6th man then, to emphasize his offense

Kanter is down low and freeing space for KP

WIlly would be up high with the pick, and while that works for him or the guard, how does they create synergy with KP?

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
what makes KP and Kanter complement each other so well

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