[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

what it will say about Melo if we go to playoffs ?
Author Thread
StarksEwing1
Posts: 29894
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/28/2012
Member: #4451

11/6/2017  9:28 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:I don't really think it says much about Melo if we make the playoffs. I think it would say more about KP than Melo.

What I think reflects poorly on Melo is that the Knicks are actually enjoyable to watch. Everyone is involved.

this. Kinda reminds me of the 2010 roster which was exciting because even though Amare was the all star all our young guys stepped up. Hell even felton was awesome that year
AUTOADVERT
arkrud
Posts: 30681
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
11/6/2017  9:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/6/2017  9:55 AM
jrodmc wrote:
Gudris wrote:
Uptown wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
Welpee wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

So I think all it says about Melo is that Phil was right, Melo caused a ton of the ball stopping and lack of teamwork issues. However Melo can also be a team player and he would have fit with this current team. What made last year's team truly despicably selfish was the combination of Melo and Rose. Two of them had zero chemistry and they never really looked to pass first.

Plus we were forced to run an offense that didn't fit the personnel we had/have.

We still run Some Triangle and lots of post ups. KP's game is much more evolved. We actually now have two great post players. Kanter in the low post. KP in the midrange and midpost. Both know how to play with their back to the basket.

I think it makes a huge difference when you have these changes.

1)KP with a back to the basket midrange and mid post game, Kanter with a low post game.
2)A point guard that looks to pass first like Jack vs Rose who was scoring and not looking to pass.
3)A perimeter player no longer there that isolated and held the ball for long stretches and stalled the offense.

We're a better team with less talent because of those things. KP finally developed some moves closer to the basket and realizes how to shoot over smalls now. Melo isn't holding the ball and stalling the offense. Arguably the biggest difference is Rose. Rose was like a cancer. I liked his scoring, but man, watching how Jack and Frank play is so refreshing.

Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

Great Post!!!!!

Dont agree, sometimes one player can poison all teams game and mental aproach, if Melo was a real leader he could win despite all you said above.

Last I checked, basketball is a team game. KP (the guy who couldn't win more than 2 games without Melo on the floor) is now enjoying the benefits of a real pass first point guard, a rookie phenom who's coming into his own defensively (a backcourt player on the Knicks who PLAYS DEFENSE, imagine that) and a rebounding monster playing alongside him. He's also being supported by a version of KOQ who's bringing it every night, and a SG/SF who can drop 20 in a heartbeat.

But, yeah it's all Melo's fault and his special brand of poison. I completely agree. SMFH.

Yes... this players are doing this along side KP... I wonder why?
In 6 years Melo being around the Knicks he never ever had played like KP played yesterday.
Even in his 62-point game.
KP is already in another league which Melo will never be in.
Greatness is about the heart, desire, and mental toughness.
KP has it, Melo never had any of this, he was always melo and will always be.
NY was always a wrong place for Melo. This city is not for pussies.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
jrodmc
Posts: 30601
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
11/6/2017  12:14 PM
arkrud wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Gudris wrote:
Uptown wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
Welpee wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

So I think all it says about Melo is that Phil was right, Melo caused a ton of the ball stopping and lack of teamwork issues. However Melo can also be a team player and he would have fit with this current team. What made last year's team truly despicably selfish was the combination of Melo and Rose. Two of them had zero chemistry and they never really looked to pass first.

Plus we were forced to run an offense that didn't fit the personnel we had/have.

We still run Some Triangle and lots of post ups. KP's game is much more evolved. We actually now have two great post players. Kanter in the low post. KP in the midrange and midpost. Both know how to play with their back to the basket.

I think it makes a huge difference when you have these changes.

1)KP with a back to the basket midrange and mid post game, Kanter with a low post game.
2)A point guard that looks to pass first like Jack vs Rose who was scoring and not looking to pass.
3)A perimeter player no longer there that isolated and held the ball for long stretches and stalled the offense.

We're a better team with less talent because of those things. KP finally developed some moves closer to the basket and realizes how to shoot over smalls now. Melo isn't holding the ball and stalling the offense. Arguably the biggest difference is Rose. Rose was like a cancer. I liked his scoring, but man, watching how Jack and Frank play is so refreshing.

Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

Great Post!!!!!

Dont agree, sometimes one player can poison all teams game and mental aproach, if Melo was a real leader he could win despite all you said above.

Last I checked, basketball is a team game. KP (the guy who couldn't win more than 2 games without Melo on the floor) is now enjoying the benefits of a real pass first point guard, a rookie phenom who's coming into his own defensively (a backcourt player on the Knicks who PLAYS DEFENSE, imagine that) and a rebounding monster playing alongside him. He's also being supported by a version of KOQ who's bringing it every night, and a SG/SF who can drop 20 in a heartbeat.

But, yeah it's all Melo's fault and his special brand of poison. I completely agree. SMFH.

Yes... this players are doing this along side KP... I wonder why?
In 6 years Melo being around the Knicks he never ever had played like KP played yesterday.
Even in his 62-point game.
KP is already in another league which Melo will never be in.
Greatness is about the heart, desire, and mental toughness.
KP has it, Melo never had any of this, he was always melo and will always be.
NY was always a wrong place for Melo. This city is not for pussies.

Ummmm, maybe because none of them were here with Melo?

Yeah, I know, because in 6 years your hate has not abated any. Which means a first ballot HOF is not equal to 9 games of a new season for a guy who hasn't played in ONE playoff game yet. A very balanced, well-thought out worldview you have there.

How many times have you dived into seats for a ball?

Yes, I know, Melo is a *****. Nothing like *****-ness to drag a team to the playoffs and such.

He's gone, get over your hate.

You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
arkrud
Posts: 30681
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
11/6/2017  12:24 PM
jrodmc wrote:
arkrud wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Gudris wrote:
Uptown wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
Welpee wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

So I think all it says about Melo is that Phil was right, Melo caused a ton of the ball stopping and lack of teamwork issues. However Melo can also be a team player and he would have fit with this current team. What made last year's team truly despicably selfish was the combination of Melo and Rose. Two of them had zero chemistry and they never really looked to pass first.

Plus we were forced to run an offense that didn't fit the personnel we had/have.

We still run Some Triangle and lots of post ups. KP's game is much more evolved. We actually now have two great post players. Kanter in the low post. KP in the midrange and midpost. Both know how to play with their back to the basket.

I think it makes a huge difference when you have these changes.

1)KP with a back to the basket midrange and mid post game, Kanter with a low post game.
2)A point guard that looks to pass first like Jack vs Rose who was scoring and not looking to pass.
3)A perimeter player no longer there that isolated and held the ball for long stretches and stalled the offense.

We're a better team with less talent because of those things. KP finally developed some moves closer to the basket and realizes how to shoot over smalls now. Melo isn't holding the ball and stalling the offense. Arguably the biggest difference is Rose. Rose was like a cancer. I liked his scoring, but man, watching how Jack and Frank play is so refreshing.

Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

Great Post!!!!!

Dont agree, sometimes one player can poison all teams game and mental aproach, if Melo was a real leader he could win despite all you said above.

Last I checked, basketball is a team game. KP (the guy who couldn't win more than 2 games without Melo on the floor) is now enjoying the benefits of a real pass first point guard, a rookie phenom who's coming into his own defensively (a backcourt player on the Knicks who PLAYS DEFENSE, imagine that) and a rebounding monster playing alongside him. He's also being supported by a version of KOQ who's bringing it every night, and a SG/SF who can drop 20 in a heartbeat.

But, yeah it's all Melo's fault and his special brand of poison. I completely agree. SMFH.

Yes... this players are doing this along side KP... I wonder why?
In 6 years Melo being around the Knicks he never ever had played like KP played yesterday.
Even in his 62-point game.
KP is already in another league which Melo will never be in.
Greatness is about the heart, desire, and mental toughness.
KP has it, Melo never had any of this, he was always melo and will always be.
NY was always a wrong place for Melo. This city is not for pussies.

Ummmm, maybe because none of them were here with Melo?

Yeah, I know, because in 6 years your hate has not abated any. Which means a first ballot HOF is not equal to 9 games of a new season for a guy who hasn't played in ONE playoff game yet. A very balanced, well-thought out worldview you have there.

How many times have you dived into seats for a ball?

Yes, I know, Melo is a *****. Nothing like *****-ness to drag a team to the playoffs and such.

He's gone, get over your hate.

What strong personalities are using as motivation weak are using as excuse.
Its not hate. Hate must be earned.
Reggie, Jordan, Morning and alike are those who deserve Knicks fans hate.
Melo not so much. Sadness about all sides lost years... may be.
Man is gone and good riddance.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
jrodmc
Posts: 30601
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
11/6/2017  12:30 PM
arkrud wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
arkrud wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Gudris wrote:
Uptown wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
Welpee wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

So I think all it says about Melo is that Phil was right, Melo caused a ton of the ball stopping and lack of teamwork issues. However Melo can also be a team player and he would have fit with this current team. What made last year's team truly despicably selfish was the combination of Melo and Rose. Two of them had zero chemistry and they never really looked to pass first.

Plus we were forced to run an offense that didn't fit the personnel we had/have.

We still run Some Triangle and lots of post ups. KP's game is much more evolved. We actually now have two great post players. Kanter in the low post. KP in the midrange and midpost. Both know how to play with their back to the basket.

I think it makes a huge difference when you have these changes.

1)KP with a back to the basket midrange and mid post game, Kanter with a low post game.
2)A point guard that looks to pass first like Jack vs Rose who was scoring and not looking to pass.
3)A perimeter player no longer there that isolated and held the ball for long stretches and stalled the offense.

We're a better team with less talent because of those things. KP finally developed some moves closer to the basket and realizes how to shoot over smalls now. Melo isn't holding the ball and stalling the offense. Arguably the biggest difference is Rose. Rose was like a cancer. I liked his scoring, but man, watching how Jack and Frank play is so refreshing.

Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

Great Post!!!!!

Dont agree, sometimes one player can poison all teams game and mental aproach, if Melo was a real leader he could win despite all you said above.

Last I checked, basketball is a team game. KP (the guy who couldn't win more than 2 games without Melo on the floor) is now enjoying the benefits of a real pass first point guard, a rookie phenom who's coming into his own defensively (a backcourt player on the Knicks who PLAYS DEFENSE, imagine that) and a rebounding monster playing alongside him. He's also being supported by a version of KOQ who's bringing it every night, and a SG/SF who can drop 20 in a heartbeat.

But, yeah it's all Melo's fault and his special brand of poison. I completely agree. SMFH.

Yes... this players are doing this along side KP... I wonder why?
In 6 years Melo being around the Knicks he never ever had played like KP played yesterday.
Even in his 62-point game.
KP is already in another league which Melo will never be in.
Greatness is about the heart, desire, and mental toughness.
KP has it, Melo never had any of this, he was always melo and will always be.
NY was always a wrong place for Melo. This city is not for pussies.

Ummmm, maybe because none of them were here with Melo?

Yeah, I know, because in 6 years your hate has not abated any. Which means a first ballot HOF is not equal to 9 games of a new season for a guy who hasn't played in ONE playoff game yet. A very balanced, well-thought out worldview you have there.

How many times have you dived into seats for a ball?

Yes, I know, Melo is a *****. Nothing like *****-ness to drag a team to the playoffs and such.

He's gone, get over your hate.

What strong personalities are using as motivation weak are using as excuse.
Its not hate. Hate must be earned.
Reggie, Jordan, Morning and alike are those who deserve Knicks fans hate.
Melo not so much. Sadness about all sides lost years... may be.
Man is gone and good riddance.


And they tell me I can't speak english...

You call him a *****, but you don't hate Melo. Got it.
3 players who are not on the Knicks. Comparison makes great sense. I actually had pity for Mourning. Ewing used him like a free ho.

Peace bro, you make no fuhuquing sense.

You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
Swishfm3
Posts: 22588
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/28/2003
Member: #392
11/6/2017  12:43 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

Such a great post.

Such a shame that it's falling on deaf ears

arkrud
Posts: 30681
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
11/6/2017  1:10 PM
jrodmc wrote:
arkrud wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
arkrud wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Gudris wrote:
Uptown wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
Welpee wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think we can make the playoffs.
KP has never had a fully healthy season and I question if he can have one. He will miss some time, and when he does, we won't win more than 1 or 2 in 10 games. We're a .500 team if KP can keep this up all season, which will make him a MVP at season's end if we make it into the playoffs.

So I think all it says about Melo is that Phil was right, Melo caused a ton of the ball stopping and lack of teamwork issues. However Melo can also be a team player and he would have fit with this current team. What made last year's team truly despicably selfish was the combination of Melo and Rose. Two of them had zero chemistry and they never really looked to pass first.

Plus we were forced to run an offense that didn't fit the personnel we had/have.

We still run Some Triangle and lots of post ups. KP's game is much more evolved. We actually now have two great post players. Kanter in the low post. KP in the midrange and midpost. Both know how to play with their back to the basket.

I think it makes a huge difference when you have these changes.

1)KP with a back to the basket midrange and mid post game, Kanter with a low post game.
2)A point guard that looks to pass first like Jack vs Rose who was scoring and not looking to pass.
3)A perimeter player no longer there that isolated and held the ball for long stretches and stalled the offense.

We're a better team with less talent because of those things. KP finally developed some moves closer to the basket and realizes how to shoot over smalls now. Melo isn't holding the ball and stalling the offense. Arguably the biggest difference is Rose. Rose was like a cancer. I liked his scoring, but man, watching how Jack and Frank play is so refreshing.

Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

Great Post!!!!!

Dont agree, sometimes one player can poison all teams game and mental aproach, if Melo was a real leader he could win despite all you said above.

Last I checked, basketball is a team game. KP (the guy who couldn't win more than 2 games without Melo on the floor) is now enjoying the benefits of a real pass first point guard, a rookie phenom who's coming into his own defensively (a backcourt player on the Knicks who PLAYS DEFENSE, imagine that) and a rebounding monster playing alongside him. He's also being supported by a version of KOQ who's bringing it every night, and a SG/SF who can drop 20 in a heartbeat.

But, yeah it's all Melo's fault and his special brand of poison. I completely agree. SMFH.

Yes... this players are doing this along side KP... I wonder why?
In 6 years Melo being around the Knicks he never ever had played like KP played yesterday.
Even in his 62-point game.
KP is already in another league which Melo will never be in.
Greatness is about the heart, desire, and mental toughness.
KP has it, Melo never had any of this, he was always melo and will always be.
NY was always a wrong place for Melo. This city is not for pussies.

Ummmm, maybe because none of them were here with Melo?

Yeah, I know, because in 6 years your hate has not abated any. Which means a first ballot HOF is not equal to 9 games of a new season for a guy who hasn't played in ONE playoff game yet. A very balanced, well-thought out worldview you have there.

How many times have you dived into seats for a ball?

Yes, I know, Melo is a *****. Nothing like *****-ness to drag a team to the playoffs and such.

He's gone, get over your hate.

What strong personalities are using as motivation weak are using as excuse.
Its not hate. Hate must be earned.
Reggie, Jordan, Morning and alike are those who deserve Knicks fans hate.
Melo not so much. Sadness about all sides lost years... may be.
Man is gone and good riddance.


And they tell me I can't speak english...

You call him a *****, but you don't hate Melo. Got it.
3 players who are not on the Knicks. Comparison makes great sense. I actually had pity for Mourning. Ewing used him like a free ho.

Peace bro, you make no fuhuquing sense.

Deflecting on my flows as a poster has nothing to do with Melo flows as a player.
I do not hate Melo. I do not give a damm about him. Never was and never will.
He always made me sad for wasting everybody time. That's about it.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
newyorknewyork
Posts: 27056
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
11/6/2017  1:45 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

Such a great post.

Such a shame that it's falling on deaf ears

I've never been one to put all the blame on one person. Have always been in agreement in that philosophy. It was time to move on for Melo as it made sense for both parties at thei particular time. Melo to seek a contender like he is on in OKC and Knicks to rebuild. With Melo having 2 yrs left on his contract and possibly opting out after this season. I saw no future with him on the Knicks. So was best for both parties to move forward.

With that said the same funneling tactics used against Melo and his style of play are used against Phil and the triangle. Phil hired Jeff to modernize the triangle. He listened to the critic of the public and brought in Jeff to use his brain and innovation he displayed in Phoenix to make a hybrid. Jeff is doing exactly what he was hired by Phil for constantly adapting to mold the offense to be the most efficient it can be. Last yr was the egg cracking faze which is normal. But of course since this is NY everything has to be instant. Phil's complaints were always about how the ball stopped. It turning to him trying to force the triangle on everyone has always been a deflection tactic. To act as if Phil would be upset about the extra amount of PNRs ran last night. Which started when Frank started calling for them which lead to success. So we kept running it as they had no answer for KP is foolish. Because the ball never stopped moving and decisions were made quickly. Even his boy Rosen commented on how they used heavy PNR to beat the Pacers in the finals for I think their first chip as they had no answer.

Phil did sabotage himself by getting Rose. But he learned his lesson from that which is why he drafted Frank against popular opinion instead of the other guy. The difference in drama and success between last season and this one. Is that the players we have today have no choice but to buy in. But more importantly we have players that WANT to buy in and give max effort regardless.

Ira
Posts: 24395
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/14/2001
Member: #91
11/6/2017  2:29 PM
What will it say about Melo if we go to the playoffs and OKC doesn't?
nyknickzingis
Posts: 22700
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/8/2015
Member: #6207

11/6/2017  2:38 PM
One things for sure
KP wouldn't be getting these chances with Melo.
For that reason alone Melo had to move on.
CrushAlot
Posts: 55236
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
11/6/2017  3:51 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

Such a great post.

Such a shame that it's falling on deaf ears

+1. Well said.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
fishmike
Posts: 47695
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
11/6/2017  4:07 PM
you cant rally around a star player ranked #400 defensively. You just cant. Akrud is half right. Melo is no pussie. He's a scorer. A HOF scorer. He's also a terrible fit. He was not going to stop holding the ball and his effort on defense the last 3 years has been token at best. At this stage of his career he is the worst possible fit for a young team that wants to be built on size, defense and moving the ball.

All I know is this. Knicks traded Melo. The 2 guys they got in the trade are giving them 20 points and 13 boards a night. Both were regarded as poor defenders. Both are playing good defense.

If you want to say they made a great trade cool. If you want to say its the impact of having "a triangle PG" like Frank cool. If you want to say this is only happening because Rambis isnt running the defense than go with that and enjoy.

Melo gone. Rose gone. Ball moves. D is played. Other player's games are elevated. Coach is running the team. What does it say about Melo if we make the playoffs? Nothing. Its says plenty about the Knicks though. They didn't need him.

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
Swishfm3
Posts: 22588
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/28/2003
Member: #392
11/6/2017  4:09 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Interesting points. I brought this up on another thread. First let me start by saying it was best for Knicks to move on from Melo and see if KP can be the franchise player. Also think, all sides involved are better off for doing so. We also picked up a huge difference maker this year in Kanter.

However, some will make it about ONE players short comings as oppose to what is so obvious.

1) NOT ONE PLAYER liked the Triangle. Just look at what all players said about the system. Just look at how methodical everyone looked. The amount of PnR's we are doing, Double high posts and weaves is more in one game than all of last year.
2) Phil created a BAD enviroment. KP didnt go to exit meeting because of it.
3) We had NO guard fascilitator. Rose is making a LBJ team lack luster. Jack has been huge getting everyone involved.
4) We were not as deep. We have a starting center that is averaging ticks short of a double double. We have a 7'3 guy that is playing like a 7'3 star with his post up game. We have Jack who is a point guard that is focused/capable of creating like a PG should. Not a Jose or Sasha or Rose type. If you looked at our second unit of Sasha, Baker, LT (as the best player) and a inconsistent KO, we were not competitive. More like D league.

But okay. Lets look at Melo as the culprit and major reason for our 4-4 start.

Fist complaint- High Usage and does not share the ball. Ok. KP is ranked number 4 in the ENTIRE league in usage! He had 0 assists last night and close to going under 1 per game. So what, No one cares and it did not affect our wins. Oh and did we forget DadMelo? Did that change the losing? Melo lead in assists two out of the three Phil years.

Second. Our defense got better and he ALONE was the cause of our issues. OK. we are allowing 105 points per game. Better than last year but not exactly shutting teams down. While OKC was second before last nights games. And allowing 96.4. Who is on their team now? Oh and BTW Melo ranked 39 in defense so far this year!! Timmy 122!! Is my point that he is a good defender. Absolutely not. But by the rational of guys on here taking numbers into account, he would considered so.

Again, my ONLY point about Melo or any other of our players that get blamed for losing is that its not just ONE GUY that makes or breaks a team. For a team to be as bad as we were, you need a bad coach, bad GM, bad PRez, bad offensive and defensive systems and BAD PLAYERS. Saying its just one guy is just a spoiled FAN's way of blaming someone for the fact he lost his bragging rights at work and cant wear his over sized/over priced jersey anymore. Maybe its just guys that did not learn the "Scapegoat" premise or never actually played sports at any level. Because anyone that has played sports before, knows that it takes a whole team of players to get a win. In basketball it takes a minimum of 10.

My analogy of how unrealistic this is. Lets say Knicks dont make the playoffs this year but KP averages over 30. Do you blame him? Lets say he wins 54 next year, has a MVP type year, we make the playoffs but lose in the conference finals. Do you blame just him? Lets say the team struggles the following year and the FO decide to bring in a Prez to clean house but that Prez puts a bunch of D leaguers around him and we look like ****. Do you blame him? Will you pick on his usage rates and his assists to justify a trade? I wouldn't.

I am glad that Melo has moved on. Glad we are looking good and beating some teams. Glad KP has changed his game and playing more inside the arc. Glad we have guys like Kanter. But to say a TEAMS success is due to changing ONE player and not ALL the things mentioned above?

Such a great post.

Such a shame that it's falling on deaf ears

I've never been one to put all the blame on one person. Have always been in agreement in that philosophy. It was time to move on for Melo as it made sense for both parties at thei particular time. Melo to seek a contender like he is on in OKC and Knicks to rebuild. With Melo having 2 yrs left on his contract and possibly opting out after this season. I saw no future with him on the Knicks. So was best for both parties to move forward.

With that said the same funneling tactics used against Melo and his style of play are used against Phil and the triangle. Phil hired Jeff to modernize the triangle. He listened to the critic of the public and brought in Jeff to use his brain and innovation he displayed in Phoenix to make a hybrid. Jeff is doing exactly what he was hired by Phil for constantly adapting to mold the offense to be the most efficient it can be. Last yr was the egg cracking faze which is normal. But of course since this is NY everything has to be instant. Phil's complaints were always about how the ball stopped. It turning to him trying to force the triangle on everyone has always been a deflection tactic. To act as if Phil would be upset about the extra amount of PNRs ran last night. Which started when Frank started calling for them which lead to success. So we kept running it as they had no answer for KP is foolish. Because the ball never stopped moving and decisions were made quickly. Even his boy Rosen commented on how they used heavy PNR to beat the Pacers in the finals for I think their first chip as they had no answer.

Phil did sabotage himself by getting Rose. But he learned his lesson from that which is why he drafted Frank against popular opinion instead of the other guy. The difference in drama and success between last season and this one. Is that the players we have today have no choice but to buy in. But more importantly we have players that WANT to buy in and give max effort regardless.

Partially agree with what you wrote...

Phil did NOT hire Hornacek to "Modernize" the triangle. If he did, he (Phil) wouldn't have held "triangle" clinics throughout the season as reported.

I do agree with getting Rose being the biggest downfall. If he would have focused in signing a REAL NBA PG from the get go, and keeping R.Lopez, I think we would have been successful much sooner.

what it will say about Melo if we go to playoffs ?

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.