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Kuzma and other sleepers
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Knixkik
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11/3/2017  10:56 AM
Seeing the numbers Kuzma is putting up, how did he fly under the radar? And how does this happen every year?

2017-Kuzma
2016-Brogdon
2015-Powell
2014-Jokic
2013-Gobert
2012-Draymond, Middleton, Crowder
2011-Jimmy Butler

We could go on, but the point is this happens every year and it becomes very obvious early on when a player was overlooked. We have actually drafted pretty well over the years, but we need to find these annual studs. That will be the key to this franchise taking the big steps each season.

AUTOADVERT
Marv
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11/3/2017  10:59 AM
hopefully we'll be adding billy and dotson to this list.
“This board has become a repository for mentally unstable attention seekers. Or gimmick posters.” - sebstar
newyorker4ever
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11/3/2017  11:15 AM
Knixkik wrote:Seeing the numbers Kuzma is putting up, how did he fly under the radar? And how does this happen every year?

2017-Kuzma
2016-Brogdon
2015-Powell
2014-Jokic
2013-Gobert
2012-Draymond, Middleton, Crowder
2011-Jimmy Butler

We could go on, but the point is this happens every year and it becomes very obvious early on when a player was overlooked. We have actually drafted pretty well over the years, but we need to find these annual studs. That will be the key to this franchise taking the big steps each season.

I don't see how he was under the radar cause i'm not one that acts like i know who will be what in the NBA with these college kids when it's draft time but i was all about this kid during the time of that draft and was hoping the Knicks would draft him so if i saw the talent in this kid then there's no way these GM's couldn't see it.

BRIGGS
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11/3/2017  11:29 AM
Knixkik wrote:Seeing the numbers Kuzma is putting up, how did he fly under the radar? And how does this happen every year?

2017-Kuzma
2016-Brogdon
2015-Powell
2014-Jokic
2013-Gobert
2012-Draymond, Middleton, Crowder
2011-Jimmy Butler

We could go on, but the point is this happens every year and it becomes very obvious early on when a player was overlooked. We have actually drafted pretty well over the years, but we need to find these annual studs. That will be the key to this franchise taking the big steps each season.

I hit directly on Brogdon and Powell. But even the list you laid out--there are more players that have come from rd 2. Hes not a sleeper but I love Jalen Brunson--I may have picked him 8 if I had the chance--hes not even on draft sites. Bt the overall theme is right--weve done prety well-we got Willy and weve been trying--hopefully Dotson turns into the next M Redd. But its fun to pick out sleepers for rd 2--its easy to say M Porter is going to be good--much harder to mine others.

Knixkik
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11/3/2017  11:32 AM
newyorker4ever wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Seeing the numbers Kuzma is putting up, how did he fly under the radar? And how does this happen every year?

2017-Kuzma
2016-Brogdon
2015-Powell
2014-Jokic
2013-Gobert
2012-Draymond, Middleton, Crowder
2011-Jimmy Butler

We could go on, but the point is this happens every year and it becomes very obvious early on when a player was overlooked. We have actually drafted pretty well over the years, but we need to find these annual studs. That will be the key to this franchise taking the big steps each season.

I don't see how he was under the radar cause i'm not one that acts like i know who will be what in the NBA with these college kids when it's draft time but i was all about this kid during the time of that draft and was hoping the Knicks would draft him so if i saw the talent in this kid then there's no way these GM's couldn't see it.

You may have been ontop of him, but his draft selection versus his production so far suggests he was badly underrated.

BigDaddyG
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11/3/2017  11:33 AM
Knixkik wrote:Seeing the numbers Kuzma is putting up, how did he fly under the radar? And how does this happen every year?

2017-Kuzma
2016-Brogdon
2015-Powell
2014-Jokic
2013-Gobert
2012-Draymond, Middleton, Crowder
2011-Jimmy Butler

We could go on, but the point is this happens every year and it becomes very obvious early on when a player was overlooked. We have actually drafted pretty well over the years, but we need to find these annual studs. That will be the key to this franchise taking the big steps each season.


Most of the guys on that list are tweeners who don't fit a particular archetype, or played on college teams that didn't maximize their skill sets. Guessing that it's hard for some scouts to think outside the box, especially when their jobs are on the line. Gaines knew Phil had his back, so it empowered him to look beyond the basic details.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
NYKBocker
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USA
11/3/2017  11:57 AM
Knixkik wrote:Seeing the numbers Kuzma is putting up, how did he fly under the radar? And how does this happen every year?

2017-Kuzma
2016-Brogdon
2015-Powell
2014-Jokic
2013-Gobert
2012-Draymond, Middleton, Crowder
2011-Jimmy Butler

We could go on, but the point is this happens every year and it becomes very obvious early on when a player was overlooked. We have actually drafted pretty well over the years, but we need to find these annual studs. That will be the key to this franchise taking the big steps each season.

Because non of these guys came from NCAA powerhouse Kentucky, Duke and the like. NBA GMs will always go with the safe pick in the lottery.

franco12
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11/3/2017  12:10 PM
NBA used to have 7 rounds! There were maybe 5-10 fewer teams then - but not that long ago.
fishmike
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11/3/2017  12:10 PM
Marv wrote:hopefully we'll be adding billy and dotson to this list.
Holy ****
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H1AND1
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11/3/2017  12:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/3/2017  12:23 PM
Unfortunately there is no sure fire science to the draft. For whatever reason a bunch of teams passed on him and the lakers got lucky. It’s not like they had anything besides the info every other team possessed. Of course the Knicks need to hit on draft picks and I hope they do but it is a crapshoot in a lot of senses. Nobody, not even the best scouts and analytics people on the planet have a 100% track record when it comes to this stuff. Shaking a fist and saying the Knicks need to start picking stars with late and second round picks draft picks and diamonds in the rough is an impossibility unfortunately.
Rookie
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11/3/2017  12:32 PM
H1AND1 wrote:Unfortunately there is no sure fire science to the draft. For whatever reason a bunch of teams passed on him and the lakers got lucky. It’s not like they had anything besides the info every other team possessed. Of course the Knicks need to hit on draft picks and I hope they do but it is a crapshoot in a lot of senses. Nobody, not even the best scouts and analytics people on the planet have a 100% track record when it comes to this stuff. Shaking a fist and saying the Knicks need to start picking stars with late and second round picks draft picks and diamonds in the rough is an impossibility unfortunately.

I would't sleep on the Dotson pick. The kid could turn out to be a steal in the draft as well. Coach needs to find him minutes.

Finestrg
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11/3/2017  12:46 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/3/2017  1:09 PM
Marv wrote:hopefully we'll be adding billy and dotson to this list.

Ain't gonna find out anything until we play these guys.. Esp. Willy -- the dude barely plays. Hearing a lot about how Willy's playing soft -- was Kevin McHale some ferocious, physical presence? Not really -- he was an ultra skilled post threat. Not saying Willy will ever be McHale, of course, but you get the idea. Weighing what they both bring to the table, I'd rather play, develop & exploit Willy's post offense (and rebounding) over what O'Quinn brings to the table. Sorry. And that's if we can't play both -- maybe Jeff can find enough time for both. I'm hearing how Kanter and KO = 20 & 20. What if Kanter and Willy together could equal 30 & 20 or more? I mean Kanter all by himself could average 20 pts/gm in his sleep if he got the ball more..

Finestrg
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11/3/2017  12:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/3/2017  1:10 PM
Rookie wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:Unfortunately there is no sure fire science to the draft. For whatever reason a bunch of teams passed on him and the lakers got lucky. It’s not like they had anything besides the info every other team possessed. Of course the Knicks need to hit on draft picks and I hope they do but it is a crapshoot in a lot of senses. Nobody, not even the best scouts and analytics people on the planet have a 100% track record when it comes to this stuff. Shaking a fist and saying the Knicks need to start picking stars with late and second round picks draft picks and diamonds in the rough is an impossibility unfortunately.

I would't sleep on the Dotson pick. The kid could turn out to be a steal in the draft as well. Coach needs to find him minutes.

Agreed but at whose expense? Court's playing very well. Hey man if it were up to me, as good as Court and KO are playing, I'd be playing and developing Willy and Dotson for the greater good of the team. Not what Jeff gonna do though. Not many coaches would do it like that, I understand. Hard to argue with the early success, I get it..

meloshouldgo
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11/3/2017  1:21 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Seeing the numbers Kuzma is putting up, how did he fly under the radar? And how does this happen every year?

2017-Kuzma
2016-Brogdon
2015-Powell
2014-Jokic
2013-Gobert
2012-Draymond, Middleton, Crowder
2011-Jimmy Butler

We could go on, but the point is this happens every year and it becomes very obvious early on when a player was overlooked. We have actually drafted pretty well over the years, but we need to find these annual studs. That will be the key to this franchise taking the big steps each season.


Most of the guys on that list are tweeners who don't fit a particular archetype, or played on college teams that didn't maximize their skill sets. Guessing that it's hard for some scouts to think outside the box, especially when their jobs are on the line. Gaines knew Phil had his back, so it empowered him to look beyond the basic details.

I agree, also if these guys could be found they would have been found by all the scouting groups around the NBA. Put together whatever you think separates these guys out, and for every name on the list you will find 20 guys that didn't succeed but also fit the same criteria. Some of this is just luck.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
EnySpree
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11/3/2017  2:07 PM
Marv wrote:hopefully we'll be adding billy and dotson to this list.

You know why I'm here....
EnySpree
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11/3/2017  2:09 PM
Kuzuma is a bad dude man... he could easily be a 20pt scorer. He makes it look so easy.
You know why I'm here....
TripleThreat
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11/4/2017  4:10 AM
Knixkik wrote:Seeing the numbers Kuzma is putting up, how did he fly under the radar? And how does this happen every year?


A) Age profile coming out of the draft. Older players SHOULD do very well against non NBA grade competition in things like Summer League. This is where I think a lot of fans miss the boat in terms of production. They think - This guy is awesome in Summer League/PreSeason, it should mean something. Well if the guy has more experience playing and his body is more developed because he's a little older, and his skill set is a little more refined by way of time, then he should naturally be dominating lower levels of competition.

B) Despite his length, he would never be a pivot, would never offer rim protection, would only profile out as a Power Forward and his shooting profile did not indicate he'd ever hit the three point shot at an effective enough rate to be a true Stretch 4. If you can't space the floor as a non pivot big, then you are sort of in no mans land in terms of utility. He's shooting well now, but his track record could indicate that it's possible that it's not sustainable over time.

He's a really nifty passer and has pretty good court vision. He plays to his strengths and has a good solid motor. He's got a lot of nice attributes.

Occasionally, and it's not too often, a guy's skill set is more suited to the pro game than the college game. Also some guys are more fortunate with their developmental timing, the extra time in college actually helped them develop to survive the pros.

He's playing with real confidence, which is huge, but his long term shooting record might indicate that he'll be a multi-stretch streak type shooter over time. It's really not a great idea to tout a player too early, if a guy is still burning hot after the league has made adjustments and the player is forced to make counter adjustments in kind, then you have a clearer view of his skill set.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
Kuzma and other sleepers

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