[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Porzingis is Larry Bird
Author Thread
technomaster
Posts: 22096
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
10/30/2017  7:22 PM
Let's preface this with: YES, KP can get better as a passer (for assists). He's still young. Blah blah. But many of his key comparisons averaged many more assists at the same age.

But for someone who had a teammate (THJr) just score 34 points and another had 18, yet somehow KP did not end up with any assists... it's almost mindblowing.

He's the focal point of the offense, you'd think he'd be able to average more than 1 assist per game, especially now that double teams are coming. A double team means 1 guy is open - and there's no one in the NBA that can bother him seeing the court.

Some notable big men black holes in NBA history (some more recent than others):
Chris Gatling: 19.7mpg, 10+ppg, .7apg
Shawn Bradley: 23.5mpg, 8.1ppg, .7apg
Olowokandi: 26.3mpg, 8.3ppg, .7apg
Eddy Curry: 24.9mpg, 12.9ppg, .5apg

Sam Dalembert: 24.4mpg, 7.7ppg, .5apg

Al Jefferson: 29.3mpg, 16.0ppg, 1.5apg
Zach Randolph: 31.3mpg, 16.7ppg, 1.8apg


We're comparing him to Larry Bird, Dirk, Garnett, the Greek Freak, KAT. Skipping to their career assist averages:
Larry Bird: 6.3apg - averaged 4.5 in his age 23 (rookie) season
Dirk: 2.5apg - averaged 2.5 in his age 21 (2nd) season
KG: 3.7apg - averaged 4.2apg in his age 21 (3rd) season
Giannis: 3.6apg - averaged 4.3 in his age 21 (3rd) season
KAT: 2.4apg - averaged 2.6 in his age 21 (2nd) season
Pau Gasol: 3.2apg - averaged 2.7 in his age 21 (rookie) season
Ewing: 1.9apg - averaged 2.0 apg in his age 23 (rookie) season

Our guy:
KP: 1.4apg - averaged 1.5 in his age 21 (2nd) season

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
AUTOADVERT
GustavBahler
Posts: 32931
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

10/30/2017  7:39 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/30/2017  7:40 PM
technomaster wrote:Let's preface this with: YES, KP can get better as a passer (for assists). He's still young. Blah blah. But many of his key comparisons averaged many more assists at the same age.

But for someone who had a teammate (THJr) just score 34 points and another had 18, yet somehow KP did not end up with any assists... it's almost mindblowing.

He's the focal point of the offense, you'd think he'd be able to average more than 1 assist per game, especially now that double teams are coming. A double team means 1 guy is open - and there's no one in the NBA that can bother him seeing the court.

Some notable big men black holes in NBA history (some more recent than others):
Chris Gatling: 19.7mpg, 10+ppg, .7apg
Shawn Bradley: 23.5mpg, 8.1ppg, .7apg
Olowokandi: 26.3mpg, 8.3ppg, .7apg
Eddy Curry: 24.9mpg, 12.9ppg, .5apg

Sam Dalembert: 24.4mpg, 7.7ppg, .5apg

Al Jefferson: 29.3mpg, 16.0ppg, 1.5apg
Zach Randolph: 31.3mpg, 16.7ppg, 1.8apg


We're comparing him to Larry Bird, Dirk, Garnett, the Greek Freak, KAT. Skipping to their career assist averages:
Larry Bird: 6.3apg - averaged 4.5 in his age 23 (rookie) season
Dirk: 2.5apg - averaged 2.5 in his age 21 (2nd) season
KG: 3.7apg - averaged 4.2apg in his age 21 (3rd) season
Giannis: 3.6apg - averaged 4.3 in his age 21 (3rd) season
KAT: 2.4apg - averaged 2.6 in his age 21 (2nd) season
Pau Gasol: 3.2apg - averaged 2.7 in his age 21 (rookie) season
Ewing: 1.9apg - averaged 2.0 apg in his age 23 (rookie) season

Our guy:
KP: 1.4apg - averaged 1.5 in his age 21 (2nd) season

With the exponential growth in KP's game we've seen in just a few games. Are you really obsessing on assists? If Porzingis was forcing his shots, if he wasnt playing D, if he wasnt doing things no other Knick has done this early in the season, I might get your point. Talk about high maintenance.

Jmpasq
Posts: 22786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/10/2012
Member: #4182

10/30/2017  7:58 PM
KP4Life wrote:minus the passing. He's similar in that he can shoot over most players cause of his height, his jumper has improved a LOT. His post fade is nearly unstoppable. He's crafty around the basket like Bird was. Just watch yesterday's game highlights and tell me he doesn't remind you of him on offense. KP is gonna be a top 3 player in the league in his prime imo. And I can't believe we actually have him. We may not even need to tank this year if him and THjr have breakout years.

the passing is a huge deal Bird averaged 6 assists a game porzingis doesn't even have 6 assists this season yet

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Knixkik
Posts: 28458
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
10/30/2017  8:11 PM
KP's assists should not be compared to a point forward like bird. Should be hakeem, Ewing, d Robinson etc.
Bonn1997
Posts: 58315
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
10/30/2017  8:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/30/2017  8:31 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:As soon as I saw the title, I was thinking, "yeah if you multiply KP's assists by 15!" But KP's scoring is looking great.

I am shock to see you post this when KPs TS% is 54.8. What have you done with the real Bonn imposter


LOL, well that is above average (I think - not sure the average for this year so far). I'm assuming his 3s will improve. The strange thing is that the team has been playing better with him off the court though. It's just a few games and probably random.
yellowboy90
Posts: 33906
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/23/2011
Member: #3538

10/30/2017  9:04 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:As soon as I saw the title, I was thinking, "yeah if you multiply KP's assists by 15!" But KP's scoring is looking great.

I am shock to see you post this when KPs TS% is 54.8. What have you done with the real Bonn imposter


LOL, well that is above average (I think - not sure the average for this year so far). I'm assuming his 3s will improve. The strange thing is that the team has been playing better with him off the court though. It's just a few games and probably random.

I can see Melo reading this shaking his head saying " You never made that argument for me."

technomaster
Posts: 22096
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
10/30/2017  9:12 PM
KP projects more like Dirk than any of the other guys. Scorer first and foremost. Where he exceeds Dirk is his elite shot blocking, something Dirk never had.

When you’re an athletic 7’3” with unlimited range, he can get a good shot off against anyone.

So comparisons to these versatile point forward types is pointless, KP doesn’t have that PG gene :)

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
Bonn1997
Posts: 58315
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
10/30/2017  9:15 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:As soon as I saw the title, I was thinking, "yeah if you multiply KP's assists by 15!" But KP's scoring is looking great.

I am shock to see you post this when KPs TS% is 54.8. What have you done with the real Bonn imposter


LOL, well that is above average (I think - not sure the average for this year so far). I'm assuming his 3s will improve. The strange thing is that the team has been playing better with him off the court though. It's just a few games and probably random.

I can see Melo reading this shaking his head saying " You never made that argument for me."


Melo clearly was above average. He just wasn't worth the cost.
yellowboy90
Posts: 33906
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/23/2011
Member: #3538

10/30/2017  9:45 PM
As I watch the game tonight Jokic looks more like Bird to me with his passing and just movement on the floor. KP was balling but he is more like a Dirk/Ibaka(young) hybrid.
Ira
Posts: 24397
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/14/2001
Member: #91
10/30/2017  10:09 PM
There are some similarities. But Bird was a much better passer and a better 3 pt shooter. KP is a better defender and inside scorer.
BigRedDog
Posts: 21656
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 1/23/2004
Member: #569
10/30/2017  10:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/31/2017  8:10 AM
How many guys that are posting actually saw Bird play his whole career? As a senior in college he took 4 nobodys to the NCAA finals against big bad Michigan St. with Magic. Incredible. I was up in Boston at the time. The year before he was drafted Boston won like 28 games, 5th place. With basically the same team his rookie season, Boston won 61 games, all because of Bird. I understand Bird was older than KP, but KP has a LONG way to go to be Bird. Bird was a great, great player who also made everyone on his team much better.
Welpee
Posts: 21615
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

10/30/2017  11:04 PM
BigRedDog wrote:How many guys that are posting actually saw Bird play his whole career? As a senior in college he took 4 nobodys to the NCAA finals against big bad Michigan with Magic. Incredible. I was up in Boston at the time. The year before he was drafted Boston won like 28 games, 5th place. With basically the same team his rookie season, Boston won 61 games, all because of Bird. I understand Bird was older than KP, but KP has a LONG way to go to be Bird. Bird was a great, great player who also made everyone on his team much better.
Not many. I think some just see the youtube clips and think that's enough to make such a comparison.
WaltLongmire
Posts: 27102
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

10/30/2017  11:08 PM
BigRedDog wrote:How many guys that are posting actually saw Bird play his whole career? As a senior in college he took 4 nobodys to the NCAA finals against big bad Michigan with Magic. Incredible. I was up in Boston at the time. The year before he was drafted Boston won like 28 games, 5th place. With basically the same team his rookie season, Boston won 61 games, all because of Bird. I understand Bird was older than KP, but KP has a LONG way to go to be Bird. Bird was a great, great player who also made everyone on his team much better.

Rooted for Bird against Magic in college...David vs Goliath thing for me... support the underdog unless it is my team.

Yup...Bird was more of a "makes people around him better guy" on the offensive end, and smart on the defensive end.

KP has not shown himself to be that kind of player on offense, but he can be a force as a shot blocker and intimidator, something Bird never was.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Welpee
Posts: 21615
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

10/30/2017  11:12 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:How many guys that are posting actually saw Bird play his whole career? As a senior in college he took 4 nobodys to the NCAA finals against big bad Michigan with Magic. Incredible. I was up in Boston at the time. The year before he was drafted Boston won like 28 games, 5th place. With basically the same team his rookie season, Boston won 61 games, all because of Bird. I understand Bird was older than KP, but KP has a LONG way to go to be Bird. Bird was a great, great player who also made everyone on his team much better.

Rooted for Bird against Magic in college...David vs Goliath thing for me... support the underdog unless it is my team.

Yup...Bird was more of a "makes people around him better guy" on the offensive end, and smart on the defensive end.

KP has not shown himself to be that kind of player on offense, but he can be a force as a shot blocker and intimidator, something Bird never was.

I agree. Like I said before I think they're just different types of players.
reub
Posts: 21273
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/13/2016
Member: #6227

10/30/2017  11:37 PM
KP plays nothing like Larry Bird and never will.
BRIGGS
Posts: 49442
Alba Posts: 8
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
10/30/2017  11:41 PM
BigRedDog wrote:How many guys that are posting actually saw Bird play his whole career? As a senior in college he took 4 nobodys to the NCAA finals against big bad Michigan with Magic. Incredible. I was up in Boston at the time. The year before he was drafted Boston won like 28 games, 5th place. With basically the same team his rookie season, Boston won 61 games, all because of Bird. I understand Bird was older than KP, but KP has a LONG way to go to be Bird. Bird was a great, great player who also made everyone on his team much better.

Old enough to remember it was Michigan State not Michigan

Allanfan20
Posts: 33602
Alba Posts: 48
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
10/31/2017  7:32 AM
I am not in love with the Dirk or Bird comparisons. KP MIGHT average 5 assists a game in his 2 or 3 best years so that throws out Larry Bird. KP has a lot more potential on the defensive end than Dirk and at times, he shows it. He still gets lost though too though. I’m sure the stats might prove
Otherwise but I feel KP is not as consistent a shooter as Dirk. He misses a lot of shots he should be making, from point blank as well.

With that said, KP has been a monster for the most part. I wonder if he is pissing off the people who want the number 1 pick.

Title odds are 200:1. So you're saying there's a chance!
BigRedDog
Posts: 21656
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 1/23/2004
Member: #569
10/31/2017  8:09 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:How many guys that are posting actually saw Bird play his whole career? As a senior in college he took 4 nobodys to the NCAA finals against big bad Michigan with Magic. Incredible. I was up in Boston at the time. The year before he was drafted Boston won like 28 games, 5th place. With basically the same team his rookie season, Boston won 61 games, all because of Bird. I understand Bird was older than KP, but KP has a LONG way to go to be Bird. Bird was a great, great player who also made everyone on his team much better.

Old enough to remember it was Michigan State not Michigan

Of course. My bad

Bonn1997
Posts: 58315
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
10/31/2017  8:13 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/31/2017  8:23 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:As soon as I saw the title, I was thinking, "yeah if you multiply KP's assists by 15!" But KP's scoring is looking great.

I am shock to see you post this when KPs TS% is 54.8. What have you done with the real Bonn imposter


LOL, well that is above average (I think - not sure the average for this year so far). I'm assuming his 3s will improve. The strange thing is that the team has been playing better with him off the court though. It's just a few games and probably random.

I can see Melo reading this shaking his head saying " You never made that argument for me."


He's at .570 now, though the team was +6 with him off the floor and even with him on. I'm not really sure why the +/- numbers have been bad for him. I wish 82games would update so we could look at the numbers more closely. The team's per 100 #s do look a lot better with him on according to bball reference. KP's been able to handle the increased offensive burden much better than I expected overall.
BRIGGS
Posts: 49442
Alba Posts: 8
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
10/31/2017  8:14 AM
blkexec wrote:The only comparison I see between KP and Bird is that they are both fair skin.

I see more Garnet and Dirk mixed together than Bird. Bird is in a class of his own. But I don't think KP has the same offense or jumper as Bird. And I don't think Bird has the rim protection or offensive rebound dunker type player KP is.

I've done this before and sometimes I have to catch myself. I used to find players of the same race to compare another player to, because that's easy. But if you ignore race or color, KP is actually similar to different people to me, and not just one person.

Dirk
Garnet
Greek Freak
Camby
Sampson

To me, when one player has qualities of different players, you have to put them in their own category. I believe if KP stays at PF, and excels.....He will develop the lateral quickness to guard 4 positions.....and sometimes 5 depending on the player.

I don't think anybody saw Bird and thought unicorn. KP was given that title by another player, for a reason. Putting KP in a category is similar to what people tried to do with Lebron. These guys are placed in their own special category, due to their natural talents and physical tools.

Have we ever seen a 7'3 player with guard like crossovers / handles and protects the rim like a center?

Bird might be setting the bar low....KP is the bar!

I'm not sure if anyone can say Larry Bird is setting the bar low-- I'd say that you must not have seen him play. However kp has been an absolute monster and he does it with relative ease. He's a better young version of Dirk right now --through 6 games he's nba first team right now -- take out boston game and he's MVP through 6

Porzingis is Larry Bird

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.