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Right now, Kanter is making Willy expendable
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CrushAlot
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10/29/2017  10:45 PM
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im not a huge Kanter fan. Yes he is great at scoring inside but his defensive is downright terrible and he cant pass. In willys limited time he has still shown why trading him just for the sake of it is a mistake.
His rep has been worse than his performance on D so far this season from what I have witnessed.
I agree. Also, he tries on d which is half the battle.
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martin
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10/29/2017  10:48 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im not a huge Kanter fan. Yes he is great at scoring inside but his defensive is downright terrible and he cant pass. In willys limited time he has still shown why trading him just for the sake of it is a mistake.
His rep has been worse than his performance on D so far this season from what I have witnessed.
I agree. Also, he tries on d which is half the battle.

Kanter’s problem is court awareness, and he can be taught some but it’ll never be good

To a certain degree, same with KOQ

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SupremeCommander
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10/29/2017  10:52 PM
we'll see... I'm not opposed to stapling him to the bench until he becomes a defensive stud. Similarly, he's under our control for a while and really hasn't done much of anything in the league... so it's not like he can demand a trade or whatever. He's just got to step up. That said, if we can get a young, blue chip SF for him I would give it heavy consideration
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GustavBahler
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10/29/2017  10:53 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TPercy wrote:I think you trade OQuinn once Noah gets back. I will be sad to see him go, but I think that brings us the most good out of the options available.

If Doncic of Porter Jr. are the real deal, trading Willy at this stage in his career, with his first team resume, salary, great stats as a rook, that would be enough to get some teams interested in giving up a 1st rounder.

Wont venture a guess as to where in the 1st, or wether or not it would be protected. Something to add to a deal to trade up. Starting to have second thoughts about moving Oquinn. He fits in well with this rotation. Noah is going to need the minutes as well.

Willy is just to valuable to give up for those exact reasons. Sometimes you need to discipline to NOT do the easy thing tho chase the next shiny object

Kanter is bringing more substance than that of a shiny object. If Kanter keeps putting in one dominating performance after another, it would be foolish IMO not to consider biting the bullet and paying him.

That Noah deal really F'ed us. But between Noah's defense, passing and rebounding (we hope) and Kanter's offense and rebounding, Willy becomes more valuable as a means of shoring up other areas, like SF, or PG, depending on wether or not Frank rises above being a quality 6th man, which is what he is playing like right now,

By shiny object, I was alluding to future draft picks you would get for Willy

Freaking hate when I type a lengthy response and my tablet runs out of juice. Short response on phone.

Got it. Disagree with the characterization. Giving up the farm for Bledsoe would be chasing a shiny object. Tanking would be chasing a shiny object. I see this as a way to balance out the roster using a player who may be expendable.
meloshouldgo
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10/29/2017  10:54 PM
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im not a huge Kanter fan. Yes he is great at scoring inside but his defensive is downright terrible and he cant pass. In willys limited time he has still shown why trading him just for the sake of it is a mistake.
His rep has been worse than his performance on D so far this season from what I have witnessed.
I agree. Also, he tries on d which is half the battle.

Kanter’s problem is court awareness, and he can be taught some but it’ll never be good

To a certain degree, same with KOQ

If he keeps getting us second chance points, it somewhat mitigates his lack of D. But he seems to be sticking his arms up and making people shoot over his frame.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Welpee
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10/29/2017  10:58 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im not a huge Kanter fan. Yes he is great at scoring inside but his defensive is downright terrible and he cant pass. In willys limited time he has still shown why trading him just for the sake of it is a mistake.
His rep has been worse than his performance on D so far this season from what I have witnessed.
I agree. Also, he tries on d which is half the battle.

Kanter’s problem is court awareness, and he can be taught some but it’ll never be good

To a certain degree, same with KOQ

If he keeps getting us second chance points, it somewhat mitigates his lack of D. But he seems to be sticking his arms up and making people shoot over his frame.

Like Crush said, if he's not getting it done on D it's not from lack of effort so far. Unlike Rose last year who both couldn't D anyone and often didn't even bother to try.
StarksEwing1
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10/29/2017  11:17 PM
Welpee wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im not a huge Kanter fan. Yes he is great at scoring inside but his defensive is downright terrible and he cant pass. In willys limited time he has still shown why trading him just for the sake of it is a mistake.
His rep has been worse than his performance on D so far this season from what I have witnessed.
I agree. Also, he tries on d which is half the battle.

Kanter’s problem is court awareness, and he can be taught some but it’ll never be good

To a certain degree, same with KOQ

If he keeps getting us second chance points, it somewhat mitigates his lack of D. But he seems to be sticking his arms up and making people shoot over his frame.

Like Crush said, if he's not getting it done on D it's not from lack of effort so far. Unlike Rose last year who both couldn't D anyone and often didn't even bother to try.
i dont question his effort i just dont think he will ever be good at defense. I also think discarding willy is a mistake unless we are getting something amazing back. Even in his very limited time willy has shown why he is a good building block
Welpee
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10/29/2017  11:20 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im not a huge Kanter fan. Yes he is great at scoring inside but his defensive is downright terrible and he cant pass. In willys limited time he has still shown why trading him just for the sake of it is a mistake.
His rep has been worse than his performance on D so far this season from what I have witnessed.
I agree. Also, he tries on d which is half the battle.

Kanter’s problem is court awareness, and he can be taught some but it’ll never be good

To a certain degree, same with KOQ

If he keeps getting us second chance points, it somewhat mitigates his lack of D. But he seems to be sticking his arms up and making people shoot over his frame.

Like Crush said, if he's not getting it done on D it's not from lack of effort so far. Unlike Rose last year who both couldn't D anyone and often didn't even bother to try.
i dont question his effort i just dont think he will ever be good at defense. I also think discarding willy is a mistake unless we are getting something amazing back. Even in his very limited time willy has shown why he is a good building block
I agree. Ironically the two bigs most would be in favor of dealing are probably our two best defenders, KOQ and Noah.
GustavBahler
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10/29/2017  11:26 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Welpee wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Im not a huge Kanter fan. Yes he is great at scoring inside but his defensive is downright terrible and he cant pass. In willys limited time he has still shown why trading him just for the sake of it is a mistake.
His rep has been worse than his performance on D so far this season from what I have witnessed.
I agree. Also, he tries on d which is half the battle.

Kanter’s problem is court awareness, and he can be taught some but it’ll never be good

To a certain degree, same with KOQ

If he keeps getting us second chance points, it somewhat mitigates his lack of D. But he seems to be sticking his arms up and making people shoot over his frame.

Like Crush said, if he's not getting it done on D it's not from lack of effort so far. Unlike Rose last year who both couldn't D anyone and often didn't even bother to try.
i dont question his effort i just dont think he will ever be good at defense. I also think discarding willy is a mistake unless we are getting something amazing back. Even in his very limited time willy has shown why he is a good building block

If Kanter keeps playing like this, I dont believe there will be enough minutes to keep Willy happy. Even if we move KOQ. Just guessing. I doubt we will keep both with needs in other areas.
BRIGGS
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10/29/2017  11:31 PM
I had Kanter as a solid piece that I wanted 4-5 years ago-- and most people here said he was awful. No he's not awful he's just the right fit here. My personal feelings are moving towards kp willy and kanter all retained long term. There is certainly room for all 3. Also we didn't do that badly in Carmelo trade-- I mean considering we could have Ryan andersen right now.
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StarksEwing1
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10/29/2017  11:39 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I had Kanter as a solid piece that I wanted 4-5 years ago-- and most people here said he was awful. No he's not awful he's just the right fit here. My personal feelings are moving towards kp willy and kanter all retained long term. There is certainly room for all 3. Also we didn't do that badly in Carmelo trade-- I mean considering we could have Ryan andersen right now.
the trade was fine. Kanter is fine. I just think willy is far from expendable.
Chandler
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10/30/2017  7:58 AM
It’s a nice problem to have. Now let’s hope Noah comes back and plays well too

At some point we need to balance the roster better and guys playing well will give us better options

I love Willy but have to think he or KOQ could fetch someone like Oubre

(5)(5)
fishmike
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10/30/2017  9:08 AM
Willy is not expendable. Not any more than a future unprotected first rounder is. Willy has 2 more years after this one. Willy has some patience to deal with but he will be as big a part of this thing as anyone.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Paris907
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10/30/2017  9:34 AM
So after 5 games you think Wily is expendable and that Kanter - ranked 63 of 66 fives last year- will take you to a championship? I’m not sure how good Wily will be but he was rookie 1st team and can board big time. Let’s see Kanter is a free agent and currently earning $18mm and Wily earns what? Rookie minimum. Noah earns 18 as well.

If you’re objective is to crawl into the playoffs Kanter May be your man. If it’s a championship, I’d stretch Noah, trade OQuinn and Kanter and hold Wily to determine how he develops. I’d also see if either Begley or #4 Draft Prospect would be available as athletic defensive two way 5s with upside are what will take us where we wanna go
StarksEwing1
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10/30/2017  9:40 AM
Paris907 wrote:So after 5 games you think Wily is expendable and that Kanter - ranked 63 of 66 fives last year- will take you to a championship? I’m not sure how good Wily will be but he was rookie 1st team and can board big time. Let’s see Kanter is a free agent and currently earning $18mm and Wily earns what? Rookie minimum. Noah earns 18 as well.

If you’re objective is to crawl into the playoffs Kanter May be your man. If it’s a championship, I’d stretch Noah, trade OQuinn and Kanter and hold Wily to determine how he develops. I’d also see if either Begley or #4 Draft Prospect would be available as athletic defensive two way 5s with upside are what will take us where we wanna go

agreed its easy to claim someone is expendable when they never get a chance to play. I understand he is very good at scoring inside but thats about it. I think willy has a better overall game when given minutes
Gudris
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10/30/2017  9:42 AM
Kanter said his dream was to play in NY and i think he will do everything not to be traded
GustavBahler
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10/30/2017  11:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/30/2017  11:25 AM
Paris907 wrote:So after 5 games you think Wily is expendable and that Kanter - ranked 63 of 66 fives last year- will take you to a championship? I’m not sure how good Wily will be but he was rookie 1st team and can board big time. Let’s see Kanter is a free agent and currently earning $18mm and Wily earns what? Rookie minimum. Noah earns 18 as well.

If you’re objective is to crawl into the playoffs Kanter May be your man. If it’s a championship, I’d stretch Noah, trade OQuinn and Kanter and hold Wily to determine how he develops. I’d also see if either Begley or #4 Draft Prospect would be available as athletic defensive two way 5s with upside are what will take us where we wanna go

Read it again, I said the way Kanter is playing now, will make Willy expendable, if Kanter keeps this up. Not that we should trade Willy after 5 games.

When Noah comes back there will be an even bigger logjam. If you move KOQ, Willy is still going to be coming off the bench if Kanter keeps playing this well. And probably hoping to be moved.

Stretching Noah is a bad idea IMO.
anrst
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10/30/2017  11:39 AM
Kanter was benched 2 games ago b/c of horrific D.

both Kanter and KP don't pass. Willy is the guy to play with KP b/c of passing and chemistry.

KP should be the 5 and Kanter should spell KP with the second unit.
fishmike
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10/30/2017  11:41 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
Paris907 wrote:So after 5 games you think Wily is expendable and that Kanter - ranked 63 of 66 fives last year- will take you to a championship? I’m not sure how good Wily will be but he was rookie 1st team and can board big time. Let’s see Kanter is a free agent and currently earning $18mm and Wily earns what? Rookie minimum. Noah earns 18 as well.

If you’re objective is to crawl into the playoffs Kanter May be your man. If it’s a championship, I’d stretch Noah, trade OQuinn and Kanter and hold Wily to determine how he develops. I’d also see if either Begley or #4 Draft Prospect would be available as athletic defensive two way 5s with upside are what will take us where we wanna go

Read it again, I said the way Kanter is playing now, will make Willy expendable, if Kanter keeps this up. Not that we should trade Willy after 5 games.

When Noah comes back there will be an even bigger logjam. If you move KOQ, Willy is still going to be coming off the bench if Kanter keeps playing this well. And probably hoping to be moved.

Stretching Noah is a bad idea IMO.

Keep am all. If this is really what Kanter is resign him. Trade KOQ. Sorry Noah. Start KP/Kanter. Bring Willy in off the bench. Lets see a little Willy at the 4 just to extend minutes if needed.

To me trading Willy is like when OKC traded Harding. Knicks dont have tax issues. We can afford to keep our talent.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
reub
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10/30/2017  11:44 AM
anrst wrote:Kanter was benched 2 games ago b/c of horrific D.

both Kanter and KP don't pass. Willy is the guy to play with KP b/c of passing and chemistry.

KP should be the 5 and Kanter should spell KP with the second unit.

Kanter was benched for one quarter because he didn't get back fast enough on one play. Let's be honest here.
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