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Hardaway
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Uptown
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10/28/2017  12:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/28/2017  1:45 PM
I currently reside in ATL and I watched most of Hardaways games last year...Here are a few differences I've noticed in his game from last year to this year:

1. Dennis Schroder. would push the ball almost at will. Even when the fastbreak wasn't there, Schroder would push and force a secondary break and put the defense on their heels...By pushing the tempo, Schroder would get his feet in the paint, draw the defense inside the 3 point line and kick it out to Hardaway trailing for an open 3. None of our pg's are pushing the tempo at all and we aren't getting any open court plays. Hopefully, Frank can bring the push-the-tempo mentality to the the team and open up the floor for Hardaway and others.

2. The Hawks offense was alot more fluent than our current offense. The ball and player movement was almost night and day. Many times Haradaway would come down the court on the strong side, would run off a flex screen on the baseline to the weakside. Bazemore or Schroder would put the ball on the floor, drive and kick to the weakside for Hardaway for a 3 or penetration to the basket. Many times Hardaway is coming down the court and waiting on the wing. The only time he moves is when he comes off the curl play or when the Knicks run that weave. Not sure what happened to Jeffs early offense style from Phoenix. Once Frank gains some confidence, hopefully we will see it....

3. Hardaway has to adjust to being on the scouting report now. He's currently the 2nd option as opposed to being the 4th option. Not to mention, he's currently playing SF and has 6'9 guys like Paul George and Jason Tatum to shoot over. The roster is in flux right now as we dont have a legit starting SF forward so he's there by default but at some point, we need to get him back to the 2.

4. Hardaway is and always has been a streaky player....Unfortunately for him, he is starting off the season on a down cycle. He's definitely pressing out there as you can see he's thinking and aiming his shots rather just reading and reacting. I would like to see him and Frank get more playing time together. Hopefully they can push the ball a little and get some easy baskets...Hardaway is surprisingly explosive in the open court. We need to take advantage of that!

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GustavBahler
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10/28/2017  12:57 PM
Thanks for the scouting report Uptown. I agree that Hardaway will do more in an uptempo offense, which Hornacek wants to run. Agree about your take on Frank and THJ.

Hardaway and Frank seem to be at odds (a little) for the time being, THJ was a bit curt with Frank in both games together. Hardaway not showing enough patience IMO considering Frank's lack of PT since joining the team.

Hardaway at the 3 is going to be a problem eventually, Im guessing. The sooner we find a good lineup, with Hardaway at the 2, the better.

meloshouldgo
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10/28/2017  1:02 PM
I have been down on him a lot. What you are saying is he is basically a glorified $9MM / year player
He is not the second option/ game changer he was being made out to be. Its not his fault but based on what we are paying for him he is not very valuable and that is not likely to change. I think he was on the rise sand making the best of his situation, but now he will flounder because outs any unfamiliar situation and he doesnt seem to be flexible or adaptive. May be it will come with time, but players being paid at a certain level are expected to be able to hit the ground running, so far he has not.
The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
Uptown
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10/28/2017  1:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/28/2017  2:39 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:I have been down on him a lot. What you are saying is he is basically a glorified $9MM / year player
He is not the second option/ game changer he was being made out to be. Its not his fault but based on what we are paying for him he is not very valuable and that is not likely to change. I think he was on the rise sand making the best of his situation, but now he will flounder because outs any unfamiliar situation and he doesnt seem to be flexible or adaptive. May be it will come with time, but players being paid at a certain level are expected to be able to hit the ground running, so far he has not.

Is he overpaid? Of course, but thats on Mills not Hardaway...I think Hardaway is pressing right now...he heard the talk about being overpaid and I think he's trying too hard to hit homeruns to prove the naysayers wrong as opposed to letting the game come to him...He's streaky as well...He will have a stretch where he will look like an allstar at some point too...

Uptown
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10/28/2017  1:50 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Thanks for the scouting report Uptown. I agree that Hardaway will do more in an uptempo offense, which Hornacek wants to run. Agree about your take on Frank and THJ.

Hardaway and Frank seem to be at odds (a little) for the time being, THJ was a bit curt with Frank in both games together. Hardaway not showing enough patience IMO considering Frank's lack of PT since joining the team.

Hardaway at the 3 is going to be a problem eventually, Im guessing. The sooner we find a good lineup, with Hardaway at the 2, the better.

Hardaway is too small to play the 3 most nights...Hard to get his shot off over taller players, and too small to disrupt most SF's who can just shoot over him...I didn't notice the THJ and Frank interactions. I will look out for that. I think its mostly Hardaway being anxious to make a big splash in his return to NY with the big contract. Nothing a couple of open court dunks and a 20pt game or 2 can fix....Also, the Hawks were a winning organization when he was there...The losing coupled with his struggles I'm sure is frustrating...

nykshaknbake
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10/28/2017  2:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/28/2017  2:26 PM
Role player in the right system we paid like a star. This is why we can't have cap space. It appears and we blow it on crap. This another immovable contract unless you include a draft pick.
Cartman718
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10/28/2017  2:23 PM
Play him at the 2 bring Lee off the bench and start Beasley
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Cartman718
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10/28/2017  2:24 PM
Or McDermott
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
TPercy
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10/28/2017  2:24 PM
I wish we played Hardaway in his actual position.

Also I think its too early to suggest that Hardaway will never amount to being a 2nd option. He has all the tools to do so and showed how effective he can be last year. Lets give him time.

The Future is Bright!
Bonn1997
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10/28/2017  2:40 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:Role player in the right system we paid like a star. This is why we can't have cap space. It appears and we blow it on crap. This another immovable contract unless you include a draft pick.

70 mil doesn't buy you a star nowadays. 150 to 200 mil does.
WaltLongmire
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10/28/2017  2:45 PM
He's not a 1/1 scorer...never has been. He will do better as the offensive movement improves.

I've seen some standing around by guys without the ball...especially when KP and Kanter have the ball.

Guys like THJ, Lee, Dougie, and Dotson are guys whose success is based on off-ball movement and having players who look for the open man, no matter who it is.

I see THJ's problem as part of a poorly run offense at this time, and I think it is also obvious that he is pressing...something he didn't do in pre-season, by the way, where he seemed more relaxed and decisive in his play and decision making in regard to his shooting.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
SupremeCommander
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10/28/2017  2:57 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:Role player in the right system we paid like a star. This is why we can't have cap space. It appears and we blow it on crap. This another immovable contract unless you include a draft pick.

70 mil doesn't buy you a star nowadays. 150 to 200 mil does.

that makes this signing even more insane. only way to get 150 to 200 to give to a star is to not give 70 to a guy that sucks big fat donkey dong

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
HofstraBBall
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10/28/2017  3:13 PM
Good insight. Many good points on what he may be facing. However, have we considered that he is just not making shots? For the most part he is getting decent looks and able to get seperation. Think he is just pressing and his shot selection has not been the best. He just needs to start making some shots and build up his confidence. Hopefully he can get it going soon.
Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
Uptown
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10/28/2017  3:27 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:He's not a 1/1 scorer...never has been. He will do better as the offensive movement improves.

I've seen some standing around by guys without the ball...especially when KP and Kanter have the ball.

Guys like THJ, Lee, Dougie, and Dotson are guys whose success is based on off-ball movement and having players who look for the open man, no matter who it is.

I see THJ's problem as part of a poorly run offense at this time, and I think it is also obvious that he is pressing...something he didn't do in pre-season, by the way, where he seemed more relaxed and decisive in his play and decision making in regard to his shooting.

Pretty much...The bolded is Coach Buds offensive philosophy in a nut shell and its the way the Hawks run their offense for the most part....Also, good point about pre-season...The lights are on right now and its obvious he trying hard to live up to the contract in his return. A few easy baskets in transition will make the hoop look alot bigger and break him out of his slump...

SkyWalker
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10/28/2017  5:26 PM
Did anyone read a quote from hardaway that he hurt his ankle in preseason? I bet that has something to do with it.
Kenny SkyWalker
meloshouldgo
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10/29/2017  12:18 AM
Uptown wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I have been down on him a lot. What you are saying is he is basically a glorified $9MM / year player
He is not the second option/ game changer he was being made out to be. Its not his fault but based on what we are paying for him he is not very valuable and that is not likely to change. I think he was on the rise sand making the best of his situation, but now he will flounder because outs any unfamiliar situation and he doesnt seem to be flexible or adaptive. May be it will come with time, but players being paid at a certain level are expected to be able to hit the ground running, so far he has not.

Is he overpaid? Of course, but thats on Mills not Hardaway...I think Hardaway is pressing right now...he heard the talk about being overpaid and I think he's trying too hard to hit homeruns to prove the naysayers wrong as opposed to letting the game come to him...He's streaky as well...He will have a stretch where he will look like an allstar at some point too...

This is such a backwards argument. Was he and his agent not involved in asking for 17MM a year? Does it or doesn't it show that they think he is worth that? Why didnt they ask for 25MM per year? Because they didn't think he was worth THAT, right? But they DID think he was worth 17MM per.

I actually said it's NOT his fault on the contract because he didn't sign it by himself. But he sure as hell thinks he is worth it, so I am not holding him to some artificial standard. Now he needs to STFU and show us why he is worth it. This ain't that complicated.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
CrushAlot
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10/29/2017  1:08 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Uptown wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I have been down on him a lot. What you are saying is he is basically a glorified $9MM / year player
He is not the second option/ game changer he was being made out to be. Its not his fault but based on what we are paying for him he is not very valuable and that is not likely to change. I think he was on the rise sand making the best of his situation, but now he will flounder because outs any unfamiliar situation and he doesnt seem to be flexible or adaptive. May be it will come with time, but players being paid at a certain level are expected to be able to hit the ground running, so far he has not.

Is he overpaid? Of course, but thats on Mills not Hardaway...I think Hardaway is pressing right now...he heard the talk about being overpaid and I think he's trying too hard to hit homeruns to prove the naysayers wrong as opposed to letting the game come to him...He's streaky as well...He will have a stretch where he will look like an allstar at some point too...

This is such a backwards argument. Was he and his agent not involved in asking for 17MM a year? Does it or doesn't it show that they think he is worth that? Why didnt they ask for 25MM per year? Because they didn't think he was worth THAT, right? But they DID think he was worth 17MM per.

I actually said it's NOT his fault on the contract because he didn't sign it by himself. But he sure as hell thinks he is worth it, so I am not holding him to some artificial standard. Now he needs to STFU and show us why he is worth it. This ain't that complicated.


He was a restricted free agent. The Knicks had to offer money the Hawks wouldn't match. the Knicks overpaid but you do that for restricted free agents. This wasn't a Lin/Asik poison pill deal where the player knew that the team he payed for couldnt match because of the cap consequences. Speculation at the time of the signing was that Mills was trying to show Dolan thst he was competent and a mover and shaker. This deal is on Mills. Reports were that the Hawks were going to offer Tim 45 mil. Hardaway was offered a 75 mil deal and the Hawks could have matched. How is this on Tim?
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
Caseloads
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10/29/2017  1:55 AM
SkyWalker wrote:Did anyone read a quote from hardaway that he hurt his ankle in preseason? I bet that has something to do with it.

Sit hardaway then. Let him get to 100. Play Lee at SG and let Lance hold down SF. The defense will go up.
Caseloads
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10/29/2017  1:56 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Uptown wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I have been down on him a lot. What you are saying is he is basically a glorified $9MM / year player
He is not the second option/ game changer he was being made out to be. Its not his fault but based on what we are paying for him he is not very valuable and that is not likely to change. I think he was on the rise sand making the best of his situation, but now he will flounder because outs any unfamiliar situation and he doesnt seem to be flexible or adaptive. May be it will come with time, but players being paid at a certain level are expected to be able to hit the ground running, so far he has not.

Is he overpaid? Of course, but thats on Mills not Hardaway...I think Hardaway is pressing right now...he heard the talk about being overpaid and I think he's trying too hard to hit homeruns to prove the naysayers wrong as opposed to letting the game come to him...He's streaky as well...He will have a stretch where he will look like an allstar at some point too...

This is such a backwards argument. Was he and his agent not involved in asking for 17MM a year? Does it or doesn't it show that they think he is worth that? Why didnt they ask for 25MM per year? Because they didn't think he was worth THAT, right? But they DID think he was worth 17MM per.

I actually said it's NOT his fault on the contract because he didn't sign it by himself. But he sure as hell thinks he is worth it, so I am not holding him to some artificial standard. Now he needs to STFU and show us why he is worth it. This ain't that complicated.


He was a restricted free agent. The Knicks had to offer money the Hawks wouldn't match. the Knicks overpaid but you do that for restricted free agents. This wasn't a Lin/Asik poison pill deal where the player knew that the team he payed for couldnt match because of the cap consequences. Speculation at the time of the signing was that Mills was trying to show Dolan thst he was competent and a mover and shaker. This deal is on Mills. Reports were that the Hawks were going to offer Tim 45 mil. Hardaway was offered a 75 mil deal and the Hawks could have matched. How is this on Tim?

There is a big difference between 45 and 72 WITH a trade kicker of 15%. Knicks could have snagged him at 60 to 65 million without a trade kicker.
nyknickzingis
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10/29/2017  7:19 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/29/2017  7:19 AM
I agree he's trying to take a step as a player.
Needs to relax and play off KP/Kanter/Frank or Jack. Let the other players and offense create open shots and good looks for him.

He's trying to show he can be a Melo replacement.

Jeff needs to reign him in.

Tim needs to see that KP is averaging Melo like 26 points a game. He is the go to scorer. Enes is a load inside. We need a wing who can spot up and make teams pay if they double inside or on KP. We need a wing that can catch and shoot from the corner pocket. We don't need him to be Melo right now. Mills may have paid him like he was going to be a star, but he doesn't need to be one. If he lets the game come to him, he'll average 12-14 points a game easy, on much better shooting.

Hardaway

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