reub wrote:When we have a team core of KP, Willy, Luka, and Frank you’ll all look back at this season as a necessary evil that we had to endure to rebuild.

Im not sure that we will have the need to keep both KP and Willy.

BRIGGS wrote:

reub wrote:When we have a team core of KP, Willy, Luka, and Frank you’ll all look back at this season as a necessary evil that we had to endure to rebuild.

Im not sure that we will have the need to keep both KP and Willy.

They're totally different players. They can excel together.

BRIGGS wrote:To me its a no brianer IF and its IF If hes healthy--as in passes any and all MD tests in every way---Id give I Thomas his 4 years 108mm. 25-27mm spent on a winner and leader like that for the next 4 years is so far superior to the idiotic money weve spent on Noah Lee Baker Thomas THJ and Lee (sounds like Im saying Eisley Andersen etc...)

This team needs a leader and a franchise player--NOT many chances to get a player like this.

IF IF we get a Porter Doncic or Bridges--and we find another 1-2 players in the draft--add that to I Thomas KP and Willy move tHJ to a 6-8 man role--then we can watch basketball. I have ZERO interest in waiting for the lottery for the next 5 years --I accept this year--if we win 10 games I dont care. Because we were stupid with contracts we cant get two guys which shouldve been the plan--we have to accpt or try to trade out of the contracts.

Aging - Check
F**ked up injury risk - Check
Undersized - Check
Zero on defense - Check
Entitled/Covert Contract Using/Will Lash Out In The Media - Check
If has surgery, likely won't recover period - Check

Fun player to watch. Be interesting on a short value contract, but he wants a "Brinks trunk" to back up to him.

If you are going to tout IT2, at least discuss how the new Chris Bosh Rule would possibly mitigate the contract risk.

He's got a huge heart. Gives everything he has and would lead this team. He would just do it hobbling around or limping on the bench. This is where the separation of "fan of the game" and "devout fan of the Knicks" have to separate. Folks have to learn to love players like IT2 for the sheer love of the game itself but come to terms he's a high risk/poor bet from a marketplace perspective.

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:To me its a no brianer IF and its IF If hes healthy--as in passes any and all MD tests in every way---Id give I Thomas his 4 years 108mm. 25-27mm spent on a winner and leader like that for the next 4 years is so far superior to the idiotic money weve spent on Noah Lee Baker Thomas THJ and Lee (sounds like Im saying Eisley Andersen etc...)

This team needs a leader and a franchise player--NOT many chances to get a player like this.

IF IF we get a Porter Doncic or Bridges--and we find another 1-2 players in the draft--add that to I Thomas KP and Willy move tHJ to a 6-8 man role--then we can watch basketball. I have ZERO interest in waiting for the lottery for the next 5 years --I accept this year--if we win 10 games I dont care. Because we were stupid with contracts we cant get two guys which shouldve been the plan--we have to accpt or try to trade out of the contracts.

Aging - Check
F**ked up injury risk - Check
Undersized - Check
Zero on defense - Check
Entitled/Covert Contract Using/Will Lash Out In The Media - Check
If has surgery, likely won't recover period - Check

Fun player to watch. Be interesting on a short value contract, but he wants a "Brinks trunk" to back up to him.

If you are going to tout IT2, at least discuss how the new Chris Bosh Rule would possibly mitigate the contract risk.

He's got a huge heart. Gives everything he has and would lead this team. He would just do it hobbling around or limping on the bench. This is where the separation of "fan of the game" and "devout fan of the Knicks" have to separate. Folks have to learn to love players like IT2 for the sheer love of the game itself but come to terms he's a high risk/poor bet from a marketplace perspective.

I said IF hes healthy.
There will be nO other player who is even close to I Thomas that we have a CHANCE to get in free agency. IF IF he is the same player as the one I watched in Boston get to the ECF--then tell me would you rather spend 25mm on him or 30mm on Lee and Noah? I believe we will have an avnenue to start filling out the team in other areas with our draft pick and by selecting a trade that includes ONE of Willy or KP. If I can get BOTH Bridges and Porter using my pick and giving up Willy--Im interested in doing that. We need to be more team selective$$ in terms of role players as well. Instead of spending so much on C Lee we couldve spend LESS than half on Seth Curry. Baker 4.3mm per? No

Knixkik wrote:Willy is a great future 6th man. He is a guy you can run a 2nd unit offense around with his scoring and passing skills. There is definitely a good use for both players.

Great future 6th man. What the he'll is that? What about give starting 5? Can we get a starting 5 before we start keeping players to be out sixth man?

BRIGGS wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:To me its a no brianer IF and its IF If hes healthy--as in passes any and all MD tests in every way---Id give I Thomas his 4 years 108mm. 25-27mm spent on a winner and leader like that for the next 4 years is so far superior to the idiotic money weve spent on Noah Lee Baker Thomas THJ and Lee (sounds like Im saying Eisley Andersen etc...)

This team needs a leader and a franchise player--NOT many chances to get a player like this.

IF IF we get a Porter Doncic or Bridges--and we find another 1-2 players in the draft--add that to I Thomas KP and Willy move tHJ to a 6-8 man role--then we can watch basketball. I have ZERO interest in waiting for the lottery for the next 5 years --I accept this year--if we win 10 games I dont care. Because we were stupid with contracts we cant get two guys which shouldve been the plan--we have to accpt or try to trade out of the contracts.

Aging - Check
F**ked up injury risk - Check
Undersized - Check
Zero on defense - Check
Entitled/Covert Contract Using/Will Lash Out In The Media - Check
If has surgery, likely won't recover period - Check

Fun player to watch. Be interesting on a short value contract, but he wants a "Brinks trunk" to back up to him.

If you are going to tout IT2, at least discuss how the new Chris Bosh Rule would possibly mitigate the contract risk.

He's got a huge heart. Gives everything he has and would lead this team. He would just do it hobbling around or limping on the bench. This is where the separation of "fan of the game" and "devout fan of the Knicks" have to separate. Folks have to learn to love players like IT2 for the sheer love of the game itself but come to terms he's a high risk/poor bet from a marketplace perspective.

I said IF hes healthy.
There will be nO other player who is even close to I Thomas that we have a CHANCE to get in free agency. IF IF he is the same player as the one I watched in Boston get to the ECF--then tell me would you rather spend 25mm on him or 30mm on Lee and Noah? I believe we will have an avnenue to start filling out the team in other areas with our draft pick and by selecting a trade that includes ONE of Willy or KP. If I can get BOTH Bridges and Porter using my pick and giving up Willy--Im interested in doing that.

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:To me its a no brianer IF and its IF If hes healthy--as in passes any and all MD tests in every way---Id give I Thomas his 4 years 108mm. 25-27mm spent on a winner and leader like that for the next 4 years is so far superior to the idiotic money weve spent on Noah Lee Baker Thomas THJ and Lee (sounds like Im saying Eisley Andersen etc...)

This team needs a leader and a franchise player--NOT many chances to get a player like this.

IF IF we get a Porter Doncic or Bridges--and we find another 1-2 players in the draft--add that to I Thomas KP and Willy move tHJ to a 6-8 man role--then we can watch basketball. I have ZERO interest in waiting for the lottery for the next 5 years --I accept this year--if we win 10 games I dont care. Because we were stupid with contracts we cant get two guys which shouldve been the plan--we have to accpt or try to trade out of the contracts.

Aging - Check
F**ked up injury risk - Check
Undersized - Check
Zero on defense - Check
Entitled/Covert Contract Using/Will Lash Out In The Media - Check
If has surgery, likely won't recover period - Check

Fun player to watch. Be interesting on a short value contract, but he wants a "Brinks trunk" to back up to him.

If you are going to tout IT2, at least discuss how the new Chris Bosh Rule would possibly mitigate the contract risk.

He's got a huge heart. Gives everything he has and would lead this team. He would just do it hobbling around or limping on the bench. This is where the separation of "fan of the game" and "devout fan of the Knicks" have to separate. Folks have to learn to love players like IT2 for the sheer love of the game itself but come to terms he's a high risk/poor bet from a marketplace perspective.

I said IF hes healthy.
There will be nO other player who is even close to I Thomas that we have a CHANCE to get in free agency. IF IF he is the same player as the one I watched in Boston get to the ECF--then tell me would you rather spend 25mm on him or 30mm on Lee and Noah? I believe we will have an avnenue to start filling out the team in other areas with our draft pick and by selecting a trade that includes ONE of Willy or KP. If I can get BOTH Bridges and Porter using my pick and giving up Willy--Im interested in doing that.

does suggesting that people would "rather pay for Noah and Lee" who obviously didnt and dont, make your argument sound better? What does that have to do with anything? Bad hip? On a guy who's whole game is based on being shifty? Doesnt it tell you what you need to know after Ainge traded him? He made that trade because he didnt want to resign IT. Bottom line.

No argument--IF I Thomas is healthy--hes the only super star we remotely have a chance at position of need. He took a very incomplete team to the best record and ECF--now add the right players around him.

IF I CAN--and we WILL get a top 3 pick --if I can---and Willy's play takes off---I think there is an avenue to totally reconstruct our wing with athletic skill players using the pick and trading Willy. You move KP to the 5--you add in your new wings--move frank to the 2 for his defense and IT at the 1 guard.

BRIGGS wrote:All of these guys have injuries. These names you say Lee Noah THJ--their back ups or has beens. Id rather spend my 25mm on I Thomas---there inherent risk on every contract.
Also I Thomas has a championship level mentality--his mental toughness is off the charts--hes the toughest MFer in the NBA IMHO.

Name the injury Briggs. It's a torn hip labrum. You have to weigh down the specific type of injury in context to a players age, usage and previous injury history.

He is mentally tough. Which helps the Knicks zero if he's on the bench hobbling around because he's badly hurt all the time.

If the Knicks can get him on a "Prove It" short term ( one or two years, or one year plus a team option) value contract with a moderate AAV, then sure, he's an interesting bet. But that's not going to happen. He's going to want a max four year deal. And if he has to settle for less money, he'll do so on a contender, not the Knicks. The only way the Knicks get him is with a gross market overpay, in which case, he represents high risk/low reward and questionable value.

Briggs, you love this team completely. It's the only thing you and I will ever likely agree on here. But what you are asking is for a team that has tried again and again to bet on the exception to the rule, to take a bad bet, hoping for the exception to the rule, when the rule exists for a reason in the first place. Steve Nash going to the Suns from Dallas wasn't a great bet in some ways for Phoenix. But it ended up massively great for the Suns. They got a franchise player and gave up nothing to get him except cap space. But the problem is it doesn't change the variables that the odds were stacked against them.

There are exceptions to every rule. But the rule exists for a reason. The Knicks just are not in a leverage situation to take this kind of risk.

In every instance a team has to talk itself into a player, it's usually a bad decision. Hawks talked their way into giving Joe Johnson a massive deal. Bucks talked their way into giving Greg Monroe a good chunk of cash. Lakers talk themselves into Deng and Mozgov. Yes, I realize we are not talking the impact of an IT2, but there are some serious red flags you aren't even starting to address here.

Chandler wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:To me its a no brianer IF and its IF If hes healthy--as in passes any and all MD tests in every way---Id give I Thomas his 4 years 108mm. 25-27mm spent on a winner and leader like that for the next 4 years is so far superior to the idiotic money weve spent on Noah Lee Baker Thomas THJ and Lee (sounds like Im saying Eisley Andersen etc...)

This team needs a leader and a franchise player--NOT many chances to get a player like this.

IF IF we get a Porter Doncic or Bridges--and we find another 1-2 players in the draft--add that to I Thomas KP and Willy move tHJ to a 6-8 man role--then we can watch basketball. I have ZERO interest in waiting for the lottery for the next 5 years --I accept this year--if we win 10 games I dont care. Because we were stupid with contracts we cant get two guys which shouldve been the plan--we have to accpt or try to trade out of the contracts.

Aging - Check
F**ked up injury risk - Check
Undersized - Check
Zero on defense - Check
Entitled/Covert Contract Using/Will Lash Out In The Media - Check
If has surgery, likely won't recover period - Check

Fun player to watch. Be interesting on a short value contract, but he wants a "Brinks trunk" to back up to him.

If you are going to tout IT2, at least discuss how the new Chris Bosh Rule would possibly mitigate the contract risk.

He's got a huge heart. Gives everything he has and would lead this team. He would just do it hobbling around or limping on the bench. This is where the separation of "fan of the game" and "devout fan of the Knicks" have to separate. Folks have to learn to love players like IT2 for the sheer love of the game itself but come to terms he's a high risk/poor bet from a marketplace perspective.

I'm in this camp. Even if he is healthy, I don't want him at any price. Yes, he's fun to watch and plays with swagger. I just don't want a team focused around a one-dimensional scorer who needs the ball to be effective and is ineffective at D. We've seen that movie before