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BRIGGS
Posts: 49442
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Joined: 7/30/2002
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10/25/2017  1:54 PM
To me its a no brianer IF and its IF If hes healthy--as in passes any and all MD tests in every way---Id give I Thomas his 4 years 108mm. 25-27mm spent on a winner and leader like that for the next 4 years is so far superior to the idiotic money weve spent on Noah Lee Baker Thomas THJ and Lee (sounds like Im saying Eisley Andersen etc...)

This team needs a leader and a franchise player--NOT many chances to get a player like this.

IF IF we get a Porter Doncic or Bridges--and we find another 1-2 players in the draft--add that to I Thomas KP and Willy move tHJ to a 6-8 man role--then we can watch basketball. I have ZERO interest in waiting for the lottery for the next 5 years --I accept this year--if we win 10 games I dont care. Because we were stupid with contracts we cant get two guys which shouldve been the plan--we have to accpt or try to trade out of the contracts.

AUTOADVERT
reub
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10/25/2017  3:22 PM
When we have a team core of KP, Willy, Luka, and Frank you’ll all look back at this season as a necessary evil that we had to endure to rebuild.
BRIGGS
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10/25/2017  3:37 PM
reub wrote:When we have a team core of KP, Willy, Luka, and Frank you’ll all look back at this season as a necessary evil that we had to endure to rebuild.

Im not sure that we will have the need to keep both KP and Willy.

Knixkik
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USA
10/25/2017  3:43 PM
Willy is a great future 6th man. He is a guy you can run a 2nd unit offense around with his scoring and passing skills. There is definitely a good use for both players.
reub
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10/25/2017  3:44 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:When we have a team core of KP, Willy, Luka, and Frank you’ll all look back at this season as a necessary evil that we had to endure to rebuild.

Im not sure that we will have the need to keep both KP and Willy.

They're totally different players. They can excel together.

SupremeCommander
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Member: #1127

10/25/2017  3:45 PM
I am not against Thomas, because I am almost 100% sure that CLE is gonna blow. it. up. after this year. That said, I'd like to see if he can walk before handing him $100 mil
fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
TripleThreat
Posts: 21516
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10/25/2017  3:48 PM
BRIGGS wrote:To me its a no brianer IF and its IF If hes healthy--as in passes any and all MD tests in every way---Id give I Thomas his 4 years 108mm. 25-27mm spent on a winner and leader like that for the next 4 years is so far superior to the idiotic money weve spent on Noah Lee Baker Thomas THJ and Lee (sounds like Im saying Eisley Andersen etc...)

This team needs a leader and a franchise player--NOT many chances to get a player like this.

IF IF we get a Porter Doncic or Bridges--and we find another 1-2 players in the draft--add that to I Thomas KP and Willy move tHJ to a 6-8 man role--then we can watch basketball. I have ZERO interest in waiting for the lottery for the next 5 years --I accept this year--if we win 10 games I dont care. Because we were stupid with contracts we cant get two guys which shouldve been the plan--we have to accpt or try to trade out of the contracts.


Aging - Check
F**ked up injury risk - Check
Undersized - Check
Zero on defense - Check
Entitled/Covert Contract Using/Will Lash Out In The Media - Check
If has surgery, likely won't recover period - Check

Fun player to watch. Be interesting on a short value contract, but he wants a "Brinks trunk" to back up to him.

If you are going to tout IT2, at least discuss how the new Chris Bosh Rule would possibly mitigate the contract risk.

He's got a huge heart. Gives everything he has and would lead this team. He would just do it hobbling around or limping on the bench. This is where the separation of "fan of the game" and "devout fan of the Knicks" have to separate. Folks have to learn to love players like IT2 for the sheer love of the game itself but come to terms he's a high risk/poor bet from a marketplace perspective.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
BRIGGS
Posts: 49442
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10/25/2017  3:58 PM
reub wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
reub wrote:When we have a team core of KP, Willy, Luka, and Frank you’ll all look back at this season as a necessary evil that we had to endure to rebuild.

Im not sure that we will have the need to keep both KP and Willy.

They're totally different players. They can excel together.

I hear you--Im personally looking for a more athletic team--Im no longer a believer in two bigs. I like what the Cs have with Brown and Tatum. We have one of KP or Willy--the Cs do not. Both of those guys will be great C's at some point. The price we can get back for one of those guys at the appropriate time should be astronomical. Im not sure we have the right people buying groceries nor do I hear any type of strategy that would lead me to believe they will do the right thing. Long and athletic is not a strategy. I want much improved 3 point shooting, ball movers who play good disciplined basketball on both sides athletic skill players from the 3-4 we need an engine and great role players. I want to play a 4-1 set with a mobile 4

BRIGGS
Posts: 49442
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Member: #303
10/25/2017  4:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/25/2017  4:08 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:To me its a no brianer IF and its IF If hes healthy--as in passes any and all MD tests in every way---Id give I Thomas his 4 years 108mm. 25-27mm spent on a winner and leader like that for the next 4 years is so far superior to the idiotic money weve spent on Noah Lee Baker Thomas THJ and Lee (sounds like Im saying Eisley Andersen etc...)

This team needs a leader and a franchise player--NOT many chances to get a player like this.

IF IF we get a Porter Doncic or Bridges--and we find another 1-2 players in the draft--add that to I Thomas KP and Willy move tHJ to a 6-8 man role--then we can watch basketball. I have ZERO interest in waiting for the lottery for the next 5 years --I accept this year--if we win 10 games I dont care. Because we were stupid with contracts we cant get two guys which shouldve been the plan--we have to accpt or try to trade out of the contracts.


Aging - Check
F**ked up injury risk - Check
Undersized - Check
Zero on defense - Check
Entitled/Covert Contract Using/Will Lash Out In The Media - Check
If has surgery, likely won't recover period - Check

Fun player to watch. Be interesting on a short value contract, but he wants a "Brinks trunk" to back up to him.

If you are going to tout IT2, at least discuss how the new Chris Bosh Rule would possibly mitigate the contract risk.

He's got a huge heart. Gives everything he has and would lead this team. He would just do it hobbling around or limping on the bench. This is where the separation of "fan of the game" and "devout fan of the Knicks" have to separate. Folks have to learn to love players like IT2 for the sheer love of the game itself but come to terms he's a high risk/poor bet from a marketplace perspective.

I said IF hes healthy.
There will be nO other player who is even close to I Thomas that we have a CHANCE to get in free agency. IF IF he is the same player as the one I watched in Boston get to the ECF--then tell me would you rather spend 25mm on him or 30mm on Lee and Noah? I believe we will have an avnenue to start filling out the team in other areas with our draft pick and by selecting a trade that includes ONE of Willy or KP. If I can get BOTH Bridges and Porter using my pick and giving up Willy--Im interested in doing that. We need to be more team selective$$ in terms of role players as well. Instead of spending so much on C Lee we couldve spend LESS than half on Seth Curry. Baker 4.3mm per? No

dacash
Posts: 20830
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Joined: 10/17/2006
Member: #1179

10/25/2017  4:13 PM
was reading poasting and roasting they mentioned Derrick favours as perfect pf/c to prozingus pf/c who knows about him?
EnySpree
Posts: 43898
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Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

10/25/2017  4:18 PM
Knixkik wrote:Willy is a great future 6th man. He is a guy you can run a 2nd unit offense around with his scoring and passing skills. There is definitely a good use for both players.

Great future 6th man. What the he'll is that? What about give starting 5? Can we get a starting 5 before we start keeping players to be out sixth man?

You know why I'm here....
BRIGGS
Posts: 49442
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Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
10/25/2017  4:20 PM
dacash wrote:was reading poasting and roasting they mentioned Derrick favours as perfect pf/c to prozingus pf/c who knows about him?

Guy is always hurt and doesnt play a position of importance. This team needs an engine.

Think about adding these two guys for ten years--we counter the C's keep KP at C I Thomas at PG Porter at 4 Bridges at 3---pick 31/32 spend on J Brunson get rid of Baker--we could move Frank to 2 guard I Thomas at 1.

fishmike
Posts: 47695
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Member: #298
USA
10/25/2017  4:27 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:To me its a no brianer IF and its IF If hes healthy--as in passes any and all MD tests in every way---Id give I Thomas his 4 years 108mm. 25-27mm spent on a winner and leader like that for the next 4 years is so far superior to the idiotic money weve spent on Noah Lee Baker Thomas THJ and Lee (sounds like Im saying Eisley Andersen etc...)

This team needs a leader and a franchise player--NOT many chances to get a player like this.

IF IF we get a Porter Doncic or Bridges--and we find another 1-2 players in the draft--add that to I Thomas KP and Willy move tHJ to a 6-8 man role--then we can watch basketball. I have ZERO interest in waiting for the lottery for the next 5 years --I accept this year--if we win 10 games I dont care. Because we were stupid with contracts we cant get two guys which shouldve been the plan--we have to accpt or try to trade out of the contracts.


Aging - Check
F**ked up injury risk - Check
Undersized - Check
Zero on defense - Check
Entitled/Covert Contract Using/Will Lash Out In The Media - Check
If has surgery, likely won't recover period - Check

Fun player to watch. Be interesting on a short value contract, but he wants a "Brinks trunk" to back up to him.

If you are going to tout IT2, at least discuss how the new Chris Bosh Rule would possibly mitigate the contract risk.

He's got a huge heart. Gives everything he has and would lead this team. He would just do it hobbling around or limping on the bench. This is where the separation of "fan of the game" and "devout fan of the Knicks" have to separate. Folks have to learn to love players like IT2 for the sheer love of the game itself but come to terms he's a high risk/poor bet from a marketplace perspective.

I said IF hes healthy.
There will be nO other player who is even close to I Thomas that we have a CHANCE to get in free agency. IF IF he is the same player as the one I watched in Boston get to the ECF--then tell me would you rather spend 25mm on him or 30mm on Lee and Noah? I believe we will have an avnenue to start filling out the team in other areas with our draft pick and by selecting a trade that includes ONE of Willy or KP. If I can get BOTH Bridges and Porter using my pick and giving up Willy--Im interested in doing that.

does suggesting that people would "rather pay for Noah and Lee" who obviously didnt and dont, make your argument sound better? What does that have to do with anything? Bad hip? On a guy who's whole game is based on being shifty? Doesnt it tell you what you need to know after Ainge traded him? He made that trade because he didnt want to resign IT. Bottom line.
fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
TripleThreat
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10/25/2017  4:33 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I said IF hes healthy.
There will be nO other player who is even close to I Thomas that we have a CHANCE to get in free agency.

https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2017/07/19/trying-to-predict-how-isaiahs-hip-will-recover/2/

There is simply not going to be enough sample size IMHO, even if he plays half a season plus the playoffs, to make that kind of determination, not on a max four year deal.

I get your point "What Else Is Out There?" but I'll keep making mine - He's Available For A Reason.

The Knicks are simply not in a good position to take this kind of risk. Noah and Thomas' contracts are ugly. Lee's look to get ugly real soon. Hardaway Jrs isn't showing great returns but that might change a bit in time. If the Knicks had a completely clean cap sheet, I'd say, OK, maybe this team can absorb on potentially bad deal and work around it, but a swing and a miss on IT2 would cripple this team for the next three years.

He was the last pick in the 2nd round of his draft. PG help is everywhere out there, it's not always simple, but it's not completely scarce. Knicks are better off trying to find the next guy, the IT3 on the horizon.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
BRIGGS
Posts: 49442
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Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
10/25/2017  4:35 PM
fishmike wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:To me its a no brianer IF and its IF If hes healthy--as in passes any and all MD tests in every way---Id give I Thomas his 4 years 108mm. 25-27mm spent on a winner and leader like that for the next 4 years is so far superior to the idiotic money weve spent on Noah Lee Baker Thomas THJ and Lee (sounds like Im saying Eisley Andersen etc...)

This team needs a leader and a franchise player--NOT many chances to get a player like this.

IF IF we get a Porter Doncic or Bridges--and we find another 1-2 players in the draft--add that to I Thomas KP and Willy move tHJ to a 6-8 man role--then we can watch basketball. I have ZERO interest in waiting for the lottery for the next 5 years --I accept this year--if we win 10 games I dont care. Because we were stupid with contracts we cant get two guys which shouldve been the plan--we have to accpt or try to trade out of the contracts.


Aging - Check
F**ked up injury risk - Check
Undersized - Check
Zero on defense - Check
Entitled/Covert Contract Using/Will Lash Out In The Media - Check
If has surgery, likely won't recover period - Check

Fun player to watch. Be interesting on a short value contract, but he wants a "Brinks trunk" to back up to him.

If you are going to tout IT2, at least discuss how the new Chris Bosh Rule would possibly mitigate the contract risk.

He's got a huge heart. Gives everything he has and would lead this team. He would just do it hobbling around or limping on the bench. This is where the separation of "fan of the game" and "devout fan of the Knicks" have to separate. Folks have to learn to love players like IT2 for the sheer love of the game itself but come to terms he's a high risk/poor bet from a marketplace perspective.

I said IF hes healthy.
There will be nO other player who is even close to I Thomas that we have a CHANCE to get in free agency. IF IF he is the same player as the one I watched in Boston get to the ECF--then tell me would you rather spend 25mm on him or 30mm on Lee and Noah? I believe we will have an avnenue to start filling out the team in other areas with our draft pick and by selecting a trade that includes ONE of Willy or KP. If I can get BOTH Bridges and Porter using my pick and giving up Willy--Im interested in doing that.

does suggesting that people would "rather pay for Noah and Lee" who obviously didnt and dont, make your argument sound better? What does that have to do with anything? Bad hip? On a guy who's whole game is based on being shifty? Doesnt it tell you what you need to know after Ainge traded him? He made that trade because he didnt want to resign IT. Bottom line.

No argument--IF I Thomas is healthy--hes the only super star we remotely have a chance at position of need. He took a very incomplete team to the best record and ECF--now add the right players around him.

IF I CAN--and we WILL get a top 3 pick --if I can---and Willy's play takes off---I think there is an avenue to totally reconstruct our wing with athletic skill players using the pick and trading Willy. You move KP to the 5--you add in your new wings--move frank to the 2 for his defense and IT at the 1 guard.

BRIGGS
Posts: 49442
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Member: #303
10/25/2017  4:38 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/25/2017  4:43 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:I said IF hes healthy.
There will be nO other player who is even close to I Thomas that we have a CHANCE to get in free agency.

https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2017/07/19/trying-to-predict-how-isaiahs-hip-will-recover/2/

There is simply not going to be enough sample size IMHO, even if he plays half a season plus the playoffs, to make that kind of determination, not on a max four year deal.

I get your point "What Else Is Out There?" but I'll keep making mine - He's Available For A Reason.

The Knicks are simply not in a good position to take this kind of risk. Noah and Thomas' contracts are ugly. Lee's look to get ugly real soon. Hardaway Jrs isn't showing great returns but that might change a bit in time. If the Knicks had a completely clean cap sheet, I'd say, OK, maybe this team can absorb on potentially bad deal and work around it, but a swing and a miss on IT2 would cripple this team for the next three years.

He was the last pick in the 2nd round of his draft. PG help is everywhere out there, it's not always simple, but it's not completely scarce. Knicks are better off trying to find the next guy, the IT3 on the horizon.

If the guy is back playing great--goes through MD approval--thats all I need to know. All of these guys have injuries. These names you say Lee Noah THJ--their back ups or has beens. Id rather spend my 25mm on I Thomas---there inherent risk on every contract.
Also I Thomas has a championship level mentality--his mental toughness is off the charts--hes the toughest MFer in the NBA IMHO.

TripleThreat
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10/25/2017  4:58 PM
BRIGGS wrote:All of these guys have injuries. These names you say Lee Noah THJ--their back ups or has beens. Id rather spend my 25mm on I Thomas---there inherent risk on every contract.
Also I Thomas has a championship level mentality--his mental toughness is off the charts--hes the toughest MFer in the NBA IMHO.


Name the injury Briggs. It's a torn hip labrum. You have to weigh down the specific type of injury in context to a players age, usage and previous injury history.

He is mentally tough. Which helps the Knicks zero if he's on the bench hobbling around because he's badly hurt all the time.

If the Knicks can get him on a "Prove It" short term ( one or two years, or one year plus a team option) value contract with a moderate AAV, then sure, he's an interesting bet. But that's not going to happen. He's going to want a max four year deal. And if he has to settle for less money, he'll do so on a contender, not the Knicks. The only way the Knicks get him is with a gross market overpay, in which case, he represents high risk/low reward and questionable value.

Briggs, you love this team completely. It's the only thing you and I will ever likely agree on here. But what you are asking is for a team that has tried again and again to bet on the exception to the rule, to take a bad bet, hoping for the exception to the rule, when the rule exists for a reason in the first place. Steve Nash going to the Suns from Dallas wasn't a great bet in some ways for Phoenix. But it ended up massively great for the Suns. They got a franchise player and gave up nothing to get him except cap space. But the problem is it doesn't change the variables that the odds were stacked against them.

There are exceptions to every rule. But the rule exists for a reason. The Knicks just are not in a leverage situation to take this kind of risk.

In every instance a team has to talk itself into a player, it's usually a bad decision. Hawks talked their way into giving Joe Johnson a massive deal. Bucks talked their way into giving Greg Monroe a good chunk of cash. Lakers talk themselves into Deng and Mozgov. Yes, I realize we are not talking the impact of an IT2, but there are some serious red flags you aren't even starting to address here.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
Chandler
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Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197

10/25/2017  5:00 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:To me its a no brianer IF and its IF If hes healthy--as in passes any and all MD tests in every way---Id give I Thomas his 4 years 108mm. 25-27mm spent on a winner and leader like that for the next 4 years is so far superior to the idiotic money weve spent on Noah Lee Baker Thomas THJ and Lee (sounds like Im saying Eisley Andersen etc...)

This team needs a leader and a franchise player--NOT many chances to get a player like this.

IF IF we get a Porter Doncic or Bridges--and we find another 1-2 players in the draft--add that to I Thomas KP and Willy move tHJ to a 6-8 man role--then we can watch basketball. I have ZERO interest in waiting for the lottery for the next 5 years --I accept this year--if we win 10 games I dont care. Because we were stupid with contracts we cant get two guys which shouldve been the plan--we have to accpt or try to trade out of the contracts.


Aging - Check
F**ked up injury risk - Check
Undersized - Check
Zero on defense - Check
Entitled/Covert Contract Using/Will Lash Out In The Media - Check
If has surgery, likely won't recover period - Check

Fun player to watch. Be interesting on a short value contract, but he wants a "Brinks trunk" to back up to him.

If you are going to tout IT2, at least discuss how the new Chris Bosh Rule would possibly mitigate the contract risk.

He's got a huge heart. Gives everything he has and would lead this team. He would just do it hobbling around or limping on the bench. This is where the separation of "fan of the game" and "devout fan of the Knicks" have to separate. Folks have to learn to love players like IT2 for the sheer love of the game itself but come to terms he's a high risk/poor bet from a marketplace perspective.


I'm in this camp. Even if he is healthy, I don't want him at any price. Yes, he's fun to watch and plays with swagger. I just don't want a team focused around a one-dimensional scorer who needs the ball to be effective and is ineffective at D. We've seen that movie before

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
BRIGGS
Posts: 49442
Alba Posts: 8
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
10/25/2017  5:35 PM
Chandler wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:To me its a no brianer IF and its IF If hes healthy--as in passes any and all MD tests in every way---Id give I Thomas his 4 years 108mm. 25-27mm spent on a winner and leader like that for the next 4 years is so far superior to the idiotic money weve spent on Noah Lee Baker Thomas THJ and Lee (sounds like Im saying Eisley Andersen etc...)

This team needs a leader and a franchise player--NOT many chances to get a player like this.

IF IF we get a Porter Doncic or Bridges--and we find another 1-2 players in the draft--add that to I Thomas KP and Willy move tHJ to a 6-8 man role--then we can watch basketball. I have ZERO interest in waiting for the lottery for the next 5 years --I accept this year--if we win 10 games I dont care. Because we were stupid with contracts we cant get two guys which shouldve been the plan--we have to accpt or try to trade out of the contracts.


Aging - Check
F**ked up injury risk - Check
Undersized - Check
Zero on defense - Check
Entitled/Covert Contract Using/Will Lash Out In The Media - Check
If has surgery, likely won't recover period - Check

Fun player to watch. Be interesting on a short value contract, but he wants a "Brinks trunk" to back up to him.

If you are going to tout IT2, at least discuss how the new Chris Bosh Rule would possibly mitigate the contract risk.

He's got a huge heart. Gives everything he has and would lead this team. He would just do it hobbling around or limping on the bench. This is where the separation of "fan of the game" and "devout fan of the Knicks" have to separate. Folks have to learn to love players like IT2 for the sheer love of the game itself but come to terms he's a high risk/poor bet from a marketplace perspective.


I'm in this camp. Even if he is healthy, I don't want him at any price. Yes, he's fun to watch and plays with swagger. I just don't want a team focused around a one-dimensional scorer who needs the ball to be effective and is ineffective at D. We've seen that movie before


Yeah the two years he was with the Cs they avg 50+ wins--we dont need a loser like that! ECF we havent had a player lead us to the ECF in 20 years. And Boston wasnt even that good! If hes healthy--hes a no brainer!
Chandler
Posts: 22313
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197

10/25/2017  8:47 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
Chandler wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:To me its a no brianer IF and its IF If hes healthy--as in passes any and all MD tests in every way---Id give I Thomas his 4 years 108mm. 25-27mm spent on a winner and leader like that for the next 4 years is so far superior to the idiotic money weve spent on Noah Lee Baker Thomas THJ and Lee (sounds like Im saying Eisley Andersen etc...)

This team needs a leader and a franchise player--NOT many chances to get a player like this.

IF IF we get a Porter Doncic or Bridges--and we find another 1-2 players in the draft--add that to I Thomas KP and Willy move tHJ to a 6-8 man role--then we can watch basketball. I have ZERO interest in waiting for the lottery for the next 5 years --I accept this year--if we win 10 games I dont care. Because we were stupid with contracts we cant get two guys which shouldve been the plan--we have to accpt or try to trade out of the contracts.


Aging - Check
F**ked up injury risk - Check
Undersized - Check
Zero on defense - Check
Entitled/Covert Contract Using/Will Lash Out In The Media - Check
If has surgery, likely won't recover period - Check

Fun player to watch. Be interesting on a short value contract, but he wants a "Brinks trunk" to back up to him.

If you are going to tout IT2, at least discuss how the new Chris Bosh Rule would possibly mitigate the contract risk.

He's got a huge heart. Gives everything he has and would lead this team. He would just do it hobbling around or limping on the bench. This is where the separation of "fan of the game" and "devout fan of the Knicks" have to separate. Folks have to learn to love players like IT2 for the sheer love of the game itself but come to terms he's a high risk/poor bet from a marketplace perspective.


I'm in this camp. Even if he is healthy, I don't want him at any price. Yes, he's fun to watch and plays with swagger. I just don't want a team focused around a one-dimensional scorer who needs the ball to be effective and is ineffective at D. We've seen that movie before


Yeah the two years he was with the Cs they avg 50+ wins--we dont need a loser like that! ECF we havent had a player lead us to the ECF in 20 years. And Boston wasnt even that good! If hes healthy--hes a no brainer!

He was effective for them then. Does not mean he’s good for us now

He’s not some instant fix even if healthy and younger

The celts didn’t want to pay him and they knew he could work in their system

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
Target next year

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