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Willie should be the starter
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Vmart
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10/24/2017  10:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/24/2017  10:21 PM
Jeff is absolutely dropping the ball. He has three black hole players out there in THJ, Kanter and KP. Willie is needed to keep the passing balance that translate to ball movement. He is the only one adept to pass out of the post. KP is horrific as is Kanter. If KP doesn’t start moving the ball he will have become his mentor. THJ is nothing short of atrocious.

Willie is needed to move the damn ball. What the F is Jeff doing is he coaching out of his ass because he doesn’t get Phil has been preaching to him for whole damn year ball movement. Jeff wake the F up of get the hell out. I don’t mind losing but lose with your damn best players out there.

AUTOADVERT
reub
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10/24/2017  10:47 PM
Willie will eventually be the starter. We need to showcase Kanter for the first month so that we can trade him. At least that's what I'm hoping.
nychamp
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10/24/2017  10:56 PM
How about the fact that Kanter is one of the only guys competing out there? Plus, he is a much, much better player than Willy at this point. Willy can hope to one day have Kanter's offensive polish. Willy should get more minutes yes, but start? Unless you're thinking full on obvious tank? I want them to go out and compete to win games. The losing will take care of itself this year, don't worry.
BRIGGS
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10/24/2017  11:00 PM
reub wrote:Willie will eventually be the starter. We need to showcase Kanter for the first month so that we can trade him. At least that's what I'm hoping.

I dont even think Kanter is playing as well as he used to with other teams. He used to have a beauty of a 16 footer. Vmart is right-- I dont see a material difference starting Kanter or playing him 20 minutes of the bench--he is who he is. If were going to lose--lets develop the guys who will be here. I still think Willy "might" be our best player. Vmart is dead on with the ball movement and spacing--its atrocious. If anyone plays basketball the right way on this team its Willy G.

Also hes right with how our main players are not sharing the ball. I said this while KP was scoring 30--he needs to pass the ball to be the top guy--3 assists in 3 games? What do they do in practice--play 1-1? It's ok to lose games--but lets have a purpose while losing.

Vmart
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10/24/2017  11:09 PM
nychamp wrote:How about the fact that Kanter is one of the only guys competing out there? Plus, he is a much, much better player than Willy at this point. Willy can hope to one day have Kanter's offensive polish. Willy should get more minutes yes, but start? Unless you're thinking full on obvious tank? I want them to go out and compete to win games. The losing will take care of itself this year, don't worry.

Willie makes everyone better. Kanter has been impressive but man is putting up shots with three guy around him. There is absolutely no passing element in his game. I don’t see how he is that much better than Willie in fact Willie is better than Kanter by a wide margin simply by making others better. I’m willing to cut the rotation short to get a three man rotation between Willie, KP and Kanter. Willie is as god if not better than Kanter.

BRIGGS
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10/24/2017  11:12 PM
Vmart wrote:
nychamp wrote:How about the fact that Kanter is one of the only guys competing out there? Plus, he is a much, much better player than Willy at this point. Willy can hope to one day have Kanter's offensive polish. Willy should get more minutes yes, but start? Unless you're thinking full on obvious tank? I want them to go out and compete to win games. The losing will take care of itself this year, don't worry.

Willie makes everyone better. Kanter has been impressive but man is putting up shots with three guy around him. There is absolutely no passing element in his game. I don’t see how he is that much better than Willie in fact Willie is better than Kanter by a wide margin simply by making others better. I’m willing to cut the rotation short to get a three man rotation between Willie, KP and Kanter. Willie is as god if not better than Kanter.

Our 3 "big" have absolutely no passing skills. How many assist for all 3--my bet is combined they average around 1 each--maybe.

nixluva
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10/24/2017  11:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/24/2017  11:17 PM
Vmart wrote:
nychamp wrote:How about the fact that Kanter is one of the only guys competing out there? Plus, he is a much, much better player than Willy at this point. Willy can hope to one day have Kanter's offensive polish. Willy should get more minutes yes, but start? Unless you're thinking full on obvious tank? I want them to go out and compete to win games. The losing will take care of itself this year, don't worry.

Willie makes everyone better. Kanter has been impressive but man is putting up shots with three guy around him. There is absolutely no passing element in his game. I don’t see how he is that much better than Willie in fact Willie is better than Kanter by a wide margin simply by making others better. I’m willing to cut the rotation short to get a three man rotation between Willie, KP and Kanter. Willie is as god if not better than Kanter.

Willy has to play. The talent is undeniable when you see him get minutes. I think Willy knows how to play WITH KP better than Kanter. Kanter should come off the bench as a primary option inside.

Paris907
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10/25/2017  6:34 AM
Sure showcase Enes. Makes sense but Wily can work better with KP and board as well if not better than kanter. eK get zero assists. He is a consistent negative +\- and it won’t change. Pack him and Lee for Phoenix for Warren Ana EB, though I’m not a proponent. Wily 35 minutes a nite 25 starting at 5 and 10 backing up KP.
Gudris
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10/25/2017  7:29 AM
This team had very bad preseason and have a lot of new faces, they need more than 3 games to start play on decent level
fishmike
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10/25/2017  8:46 AM
Vmart wrote:
nychamp wrote:How about the fact that Kanter is one of the only guys competing out there? Plus, he is a much, much better player than Willy at this point. Willy can hope to one day have Kanter's offensive polish. Willy should get more minutes yes, but start? Unless you're thinking full on obvious tank? I want them to go out and compete to win games. The losing will take care of itself this year, don't worry.

Willie makes everyone better. Kanter has been impressive but man is putting up shots with three guy around him. There is absolutely no passing element in his game. I don’t see how he is that much better than Willie in fact Willie is better than Kanter by a wide margin simply by making others better. I’m willing to cut the rotation short to get a three man rotation between Willie, KP and Kanter. Willie is as god if not better than Kanter.

He does. He sets bruising picks and he's a ball mover. Very Gasol like. He's not going anywhere. They have a glut and want to get some value from the guys who arent long term fits.
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fishmike
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10/25/2017  8:47 AM
Gudris wrote:This team had very bad preseason and have a lot of new faces, they need more than 3 games to start play on decent level
this is #1 and you really see it with the passing. It sucks, its tentative and shows guys are still figuring it out
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anrst
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10/25/2017  9:52 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/25/2017  9:53 AM
The point about Willy moving the ball and us needing facilitators is a good one.

Kanter would still be a scoring asset on the second unit.

Hornacek is a horrible coach.

No team is gonna be suckered into trading anything good for OQuinn or Kanter. Showcase all you want. Knicks are fools.

knicks1248
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10/25/2017  10:21 AM
I don't see how you guys just look pass his horrid defense after beating melo to death regarding his. His pick and roll defense is like a 12 yr old.

He leaves his man and chases the ball handler on almost every single P&R, either giving up a 3, a lay up, a foul(because he's late on the roll) or a and 1.

willy is a good player, just not for this team, not for this system, he shouldn't be develop by a-no-defense coaching staff, and around 9 other piss poor defenders

ES
fishmike
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10/25/2017  10:27 AM
knicks1248 wrote:I don't see how you guys just look pass his horrid defense after beating melo to death regarding his. His pick and roll defense is like a 12 yr old.

He leaves his man and chases the ball handler on almost every single P&R, either giving up a 3, a lay up, a foul(because he's late on the roll) or a and 1.

willy is a good player, just not for this team, not for this system, he shouldn't be develop by a-no-defense coaching staff, and around 9 other piss poor defenders

Why dont you throw a list out of there of big guys in their first or second years who are good pick and roll defenders. Please.. just throw a couple out there. Please entertain us.

Ill make it easy... Willy should play defense more like these guys _______________ (fill in blank with young big men)

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Vmart
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10/25/2017  10:29 AM
fishmike wrote:
Vmart wrote:
nychamp wrote:How about the fact that Kanter is one of the only guys competing out there? Plus, he is a much, much better player than Willy at this point. Willy can hope to one day have Kanter's offensive polish. Willy should get more minutes yes, but start? Unless you're thinking full on obvious tank? I want them to go out and compete to win games. The losing will take care of itself this year, don't worry.

Willie makes everyone better. Kanter has been impressive but man is putting up shots with three guy around him. There is absolutely no passing element in his game. I don’t see how he is that much better than Willie in fact Willie is better than Kanter by a wide margin simply by making others better. I’m willing to cut the rotation short to get a three man rotation between Willie, KP and Kanter. Willie is as god if not better than Kanter.

He does. He sets bruising picks and he's a ball mover. Very Gasol like. He's not going anywhere. They have a glut and want to get some value from the guys who arent long term fits.

Did you see how Willie used a pass to set up another pass to get a PR going that he finished with a dunk. He understands the nuances of the game. KP and Kanter don’t do that.

Also going forward Kuz is the Knicks best small forward. McDermott and Beasley don’t do anything for me matter of fact I think Beasley is nonchalant I don’t know if this guy is there mentally or has the focus needed for him to be successful. Kuz needs to play he is more creative and gets out in the break better. I really dislike what Jeff is doing here I think they are trying to disprove Phil’s picks. If THJ doesn’t pick his game up I would replace him with Lee.

This is what I’m going with:
Thomas/Kuz
KP/Kanter
WH/Kanter/O’Quin
THJ/Lee
Sessions/Nitlikina

HofstraBBall
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10/25/2017  10:45 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/25/2017  11:11 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Vmart wrote:
nychamp wrote:How about the fact that Kanter is one of the only guys competing out there? Plus, he is a much, much better player than Willy at this point. Willy can hope to one day have Kanter's offensive polish. Willy should get more minutes yes, but start? Unless you're thinking full on obvious tank? I want them to go out and compete to win games. The losing will take care of itself this year, don't worry.

Willie makes everyone better. Kanter has been impressive but man is putting up shots with three guy around him. There is absolutely no passing element in his game. I don’t see how he is that much better than Willie in fact Willie is better than Kanter by a wide margin simply by making others better. I’m willing to cut the rotation short to get a three man rotation between Willie, KP and Kanter. Willie is as god if not better than Kanter.

Our 3 "big" have absolutely no passing skills. How many assist for all 3--my bet is combined they average around 1 each--maybe.

Wow. This is the nost way off post game thread i habe seen. If a team is counting on their 4 and 5's to be the fascilitators, they are in trouble. Kanter is doing his job! 19 rebounds! 16 tough lunch pail point! Only guy that wasnt sulking or stinking up the joint.

Nah. You guys are way off. How bout ****ty SG play. KP and Timmy shooting terribly. That's all. Willy would not have and will not change anything.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
HofstraBBall
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10/25/2017  10:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/25/2017  11:12 AM
Vmart wrote:Jeff is absolutely dropping the ball. He has three black hole players out there in THJ, Kanter and KP. Willie is needed to keep the passing balance that translate to ball movement. He is the only one adept to pass out of the post. KP is horrific as is Kanter. If KP doesn’t start moving the ball he will have become his mentor. THJ is nothing short of atrocious.

Willie is needed to move the damn ball. What the F is Jeff doing is he coaching out of his ass because he doesn’t get Phil has been preaching to him for whole damn year ball movement. Jeff wake the F up of get the hell out. I don’t mind losing but lose with your damn best players out there.

Lmao. A Melo dig. Guess you praised him last 2 games when KP was very good.

Did you watch the game? Kanter was the ONLY positive. You could have literally started a thread complaining about every and anything else and been right. The guy was a beast. Super active, and had 19 F..ing rebounds!! Yet you think Willie's ability to pass would have changed anything?

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
knicks1248
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10/25/2017  10:56 AM
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I don't see how you guys just look pass his horrid defense after beating melo to death regarding his. His pick and roll defense is like a 12 yr old.

He leaves his man and chases the ball handler on almost every single P&R, either giving up a 3, a lay up, a foul(because he's late on the roll) or a and 1.

willy is a good player, just not for this team, not for this system, he shouldn't be develop by a-no-defense coaching staff, and around 9 other piss poor defenders

Why dont you throw a list out of there of big guys in their first or second years who are good pick and roll defenders. Please.. just throw a couple out there. Please entertain us.

Ill make it easy... Willy should play defense more like these guys _______________ (fill in blank with young big men)

FISH LETS BE REAL, bad defenders hardly every become good ones, unless they are being coached by jvg/thibs type coaching staff, they also have to spend a lot of time playing with defensive minded players across the board.

If you disagree with that it's because your being BIAS, or just hate to agree with me on anything even when I agree with you on certain things.

You know we don't have a defensive minded coaching staff(as much as they try to act that way), so it doesn't matter what yr he's in 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. He's a product of his environment.

ES
Nalod
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10/25/2017  10:57 AM
MOst of the comments are based on what we see. Willy got some junk time.
Most are about offense. All we really know is Willy is behind on the defense.
Last year Willy was on the bench, worked his way into the rotation bigly.
I expect either by trade or by merit willy will work his way back.
Losing sucks. But in a division with Philly and Boston, both with great youth its not to our benefit to compromise on rebuilding.
We don't have the assets to for massive upgrade either like boston did.
Jaylen Brown in his 2nd or third year. WE slamming out yoots after three games.
Boston did something very smart, they likely did not want Fultz and got the guy they wanted. Ball was not for them either. They wanted Tatum.
Kid going to get lots of opportunity with Haywood out.
Im not worried about Boston or philly, but remember Philly to get in this position made some moves that has not panned out and have been snake bit. Norlens was not all they hoped, OK4 seems to have regressed some (jury still out) and Simmons missed a year. Embiid fell in the draft because of his injury. They have been in hell for years.
We been in hell for just three years but we did not have all our no. 1 picks!

Its a long road. Tune in or tune out.

Anger sells, don't buy!
Vmart
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10/25/2017  12:17 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Vmart wrote:Jeff is absolutely dropping the ball. He has three black hole players out there in THJ, Kanter and KP. Willie is needed to keep the passing balance that translate to ball movement. He is the only one adept to pass out of the post. KP is horrific as is Kanter. If KP doesn’t start moving the ball he will have become his mentor. THJ is nothing short of atrocious.

Willie is needed to move the damn ball. What the F is Jeff doing is he coaching out of his ass because he doesn’t get Phil has been preaching to him for whole damn year ball movement. Jeff wake the F up of get the hell out. I don’t mind losing but lose with your damn best players out there.

Lmao. A Melo dig. Guess you praised him last 2 games when KP was very good.

Did you watch the game? Kanter was the ONLY positive. You could have literally started a thread complaining about every and anything else and been right. The guy was a beast. Super active, and had 19 F..ing rebounds!! Yet you think Willie's ability to pass would have changed anything?

I didn’t praise KP in the first two games. You probably want to know why. It’s simple he wasn’t making anyone better. He didn’t pass the ball well enough to merit praise. He had a nice individual game.

You said something about the 4-5 guys being facilitators shouldn’t they be facilitators when hey are in a set. Shouldn’t all five player be facilitators when they are in an offensive set, so a right play can be executed or should the PG do it all the time.

Did I take a dig at Melo if telling a truth is a dig, KP better change his act because if that is his role model he needs to look at better option for role models. Somethings learned about KP physical play rattled him started missing free throws lost focus and forced shots trying to get his. I don’t blame him totally I expect the coach to make adjustments which never happened.

Willie should be the starter

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