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I miss the Triangle
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nyknickzingis
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11/16/2017  7:35 AM
I don't think the Knicks ran much Triangle last year in the start of the season with Rose, Melo, KP. That lineup was doing lots of running and other stuff. Triangle was only used in deadball situations. When the season went down the tubes, Phil enforced the Triangle to "evaluate talent" for this coming season.

Right now it looks like the team is far better off having had Phil those years, because he brought in talent based on what he liked in the Triangle, but those talents fit into winning. O'Quinn, Porzingis, Thomas, Lee, Frank, Willy. However the team has done better without Phil's interference. Jeff is running the team as he sees fit. It seemed so long as Phil was around, anytime the team encountered some problems or a rut, the solution was always "run more Triangle". Which the players didn't agree with. I think everyone is better off in the longrun without that. But those 3 years were worth it, because you've gotten some really good players out of it. Main piece being KP.

Systematically and all that, the main difference are the players. No more selfish players on the team. No more players who give zero effort on defense and only want to isolate on offense. Rose was the biggest culprit. Melo tried on D at times, but he always wanted to isolate and kill the flow of the offense. You see Rose and Melo do the same to Cleveland and OKC.

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HofstraBBall
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11/16/2017  8:37 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/16/2017  8:56 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:I don't think the Knicks ran much Triangle last year in the start of the season with Rose, Melo, KP. That lineup was doing lots of running and other stuff. Triangle was only used in deadball situations. When the season went down the tubes, Phil enforced the Triangle to "evaluate talent" for this coming season.

Right now it looks like the team is far better off having had Phil those years, because he brought in talent based on what he liked in the Triangle, but those talents fit into winning. O'Quinn, Porzingis, Thomas, Lee, Frank, Willy. However the team has done better without Phil's interference. Jeff is running the team as he sees fit. It seemed so long as Phil was around, anytime the team encountered some problems or a rut, the solution was always "run more Triangle". Which the players didn't agree with. I think everyone is better off in the longrun without that. But those 3 years were worth it, because you've gotten some really good players out of it. Main piece being KP.

Systematically and all that, the main difference are the players. No more selfish players on the team. No more players who give zero effort on defense and only want to isolate on offense. Rose was the biggest culprit. Melo tried on D at times, but he always wanted to isolate and kill the flow of the offense. You see Rose and Melo do the same to Cleveland and OKC.

Sorry, who flourished in that offense? Lee was afraid to drive in it. He ia having his best year here without it? Also dont forget guys like Kanter, Macbuckets and Timmy, not brought in by Phil, have been more important. Timmy won the game last night. Kanter gave us big lead vs Cavs. Phil's great continued contribution of Willy, NOAH and Baker are where exavtly. Much better than Willy, KO, Baker, etc ever were. Kps down low game has also been huge difference maker. And leta not pretend that Phil would not have picked the prototypical Triangle big (Okafor) if given a higher spot in draft or not for Gaines. True, A solid PG that passes makes a huge difference. Was not a fan od Rose. Don't agree that Melo was as bigger issue than Phil and rhe Triangle. Especially considering we still have a shot first starter in Timmy. Alrhough i agree we needed to move on. But again, biggest factor, for me, is that Phil and the Triangle are gone. Good riddance. Dont have to win the argumenr as I already won by not having both of those here.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
nixluva
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11/16/2017  10:17 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:Jeff Hornacek June 2016:

“Maybe we’ll call it the circle offense,’’ Hornacek quipped.

“To me, it’s just a way to space the floor,’’ Hornacek said. “You can run any play you want out of the triangle. It’s just reading basketball. It’s going to be a part of our offense. It’s something that’s worked, won championships.”

In his 2 ½ seasons coaching the Suns, Hornacek embraced a speedball attack and wants to get the Knicks into transition instead of having them fall into half-court triangle sets, which often features throwing the ball into the low post and having players read and react.

“We’re going to run the triangle, but I wouldn’t call it the triangle,’’ Hornacek said. “There’s a lot of aspects of the triangle. It seems to be some foreign word. The court is spaced a different way. We can space it out farther and run some things I did in Phoenix. So there will be aspects of the triangle. It’s basic reads. You can call it the triangle or call it what Golden State runs. There’s the idea we can blend it somehow.’’

Jeff Hornacek October 2016:

Hornacek said when teams are in their halfcourt sets they all run a variation of the triangle. The difference is that most NBA teams get into their offense quicker and that running the triangle exclusively will slow the pace.

“I think that’s where most people are coming from,” Hornacek said. “If you end up being a slowdown team and never end up getting easy buckets and you’re running that halfcourt set all the time… guys, first of all, don’t like to run it.


“But secondly, it makes it very difficult to get easy buckets early in the offense and I think in today’s game those early buckets are nice to get. We’re not running it every time. We’re mixing it here and there. Hopefully, for us it’s a good thing we can do when we need to execute a play on a dead ball that we have something to go to.”

Last season, Derek Fisher began to move away from the triangle and once he was fired and replaced with interim coach Kurt Rambis, the Knicks went back to running the old school offense. Hornacek pledges that Jackson has been hands off:

“Phil’s been great,” Hornacek added. “He’s not trying to take over and make us do anything. He’s giving us the leeway. There are some things that we do that aren’t the triangle stuff; our early stuff that quite honestly we probably thought he’d say ‘let’s not do that, or let’s not do this option.’ But he hasn’t said that at all.

“He’s just trying to give us hints on when we’re in the halfcourt sets. Just how to really execute it. It’s great help.”

Read more at http://www.slamonline.com/news-rumors/other-news/jeff-hornacek-triangle-offense-knicks/#QkQtiOjddJMl5GXB.99

Jeff Hornacek February 2017:

Hornacek said Jackson didn’t play a role in increasing the triangle sets following the break, but acknowledged that he and the team president have discussed it all season.

“We talked all year about finding that balance in what we do in the early offense and getting in the open court and playing that way, and then the amount of triangle that we run,” Hornacek said. “We ran a lot off of dead balls, ran a lot off of dead-ball situations. We just tried to put it in a little bit more so that we have a little more format, again, for the defensive side of it. So that when we don’t get a call and everyone — what was happening a lot was when we came down and we didn’t get a call out from our guards, the guys seemed to look around and wonder what to do. So now when there’s not a call, they should be formatted in that set, and that should help us.”

When Hornacek took over, he was careful to correct anybody who called his offense, ‘the triangle.’ Instead, he made sure it was dubbed, ‘Triangle Aspects,’ so as not to go all in on Jackson’s darling. He also incorporated more pick-and-rolls, much to the delight of Rose, and reserved the triangle for just inbounds plays and plays out of timeouts.

But there was no such correction from Rose on Saturday. The triangle is back. Or, at least, it’s become more of an emphasis again.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/knicks-jeff-hornacek-bring-triangle-offense-back-article-1.2982405

Jeff Hornacek March 2017:

“We talk about it a lot,” Hornacek said. “Different things in the triangle you can do. Sometimes you call them out of timeout plays. That’s some of the things Phil has said. Some plays that maybe he used.
“We’re talking all the time. That came up in one of the discussions, that it does give you better balance. We had guys that were getting stuck in the corner. That was part of it. Even that I don’t know how many possessions in a game, we’re probably still not anywhere close to 50 percent of the time running it.”
http://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2017/03/01/kristaps-porzingis-board-knicks-triangle/98585156/

Even after all the drama last year when They focused more on the Triangle they NEVER got up to even 50% Triangle!!! So clearly most of the year the Knicks weren’t running a lot of Triangle.

So what he said while the Triangle guru Prez was signing his check is relevant how? By showing he was smart enough tonsaybthe right things to keep his job? Becayse what he us saying NOW, with no restraints, is not more telling.

And please tell me how a coach having to discuss his offense with the President of operation does not give you a clue of a possible issue? Not the PREZ forcing his coaches to run HIS OLD offense. But yeah, your right, they never ran the Triangle. Our offense was great. And the players are still enjoying and running the **** we were running the kast three years.

Please stop. Our offense the previous three years was a joke. As was Phil's constant control over it. Especially the need to force that piece of **** down players throats. NOT having him here is the biggest reason for our success!

First off we had DRose, BJ and Baker running the offense last year. Jack and Frank are much better at executing than any of the guys last year NO MATTER WHAT is being run! This team simply DID NOT run a lot of Triangle last year. When they did they had poor execution because Melo, DRose and BJ held the ball and broke plays.

Also because the Knicks are defending this year there are more fast breaks!!! IMO the offense this year is still very similar to last year but the TEAM is better and execution is better overall. They still run some Triangle this year but execution is better.

fwk00
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12/11/2017  5:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1aqeoOfHhk
Uptown
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12/11/2017  7:13 PM
https://nypost.com/2017/11/30/this-is-what-courtney-lee-looks-like-without-phils-handcuffs/

“You want me to say it point-blank and clear,’’ Lee said when asked Wednesday about his metamorphosis. “We’re not running the triangle. We’re running a different offense that’s more fast-paced. And it’s more suitable for my style of play.”

Fluck the Triangle!!!!

nyknickzingis
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12/12/2017  11:45 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/12/2017  11:48 AM
Uptown wrote:https://nypost.com/2017/11/30/this-is-what-courtney-lee-looks-like-without-phils-handcuffs/

“You want me to say it point-blank and clear,’’ Lee said when asked Wednesday about his metamorphosis. “We’re not running the triangle. We’re running a different offense that’s more fast-paced. And it’s more suitable for my style of play.”

Fluck the Triangle!!!!


The team is built much like Phil Jackson would have. We drafted Frank. We don't have an attack the paint, ball dominant point guard. We're a big team, built around 2 Centers. We have great interior defense and KP has added a post game.

The offense system isn't as important as if the team moves the ball. If last year's team was able to break free of Melo/Rose and have a long stretch without them, you would see how they would move the ball and run the Triangle well.

I'm not saying Phil Jackson wasn't an issue for the team, he was meddling maybe too much. The biggest change is Melo gone though. Go watch OKC and see how the ball is always stopping there now. They are 25/30 (sixth worst) in assists. This was us last year.

Uptown
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12/12/2017  1:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/12/2017  1:33 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
Uptown wrote:https://nypost.com/2017/11/30/this-is-what-courtney-lee-looks-like-without-phils-handcuffs/

“You want me to say it point-blank and clear,’’ Lee said when asked Wednesday about his metamorphosis. “We’re not running the triangle. We’re running a different offense that’s more fast-paced. And it’s more suitable for my style of play.”

Fluck the Triangle!!!!


The team is built much like Phil Jackson would have. We drafted Frank. We don't have an attack the paint, ball dominant point guard. We're a big team, built around 2 Centers. We have great interior defense and KP has added a post game.

The offense system isn't as important as if the team moves the ball. If last year's team was able to break free of Melo/Rose and have a long stretch without them, you would see how they would move the ball and run the Triangle well.

I'm not saying Phil Jackson wasn't an issue for the team, he was meddling maybe too much. The biggest change is Melo gone though. Go watch OKC and see how the ball is always stopping there now. They are 25/30 (sixth worst) in assists. This was us last year.

phil is equally responsible as Melo was for last yrs decable..The confusion from top to bottom that KP complained about was on phil...He was the prez right? Constant medling with the coach, players, the circus atmosphere in the media was on phil. Last yrs team that didn't move the ball also featured D Rose; a phil signing. It was well known that he wasn't a ball mover yet phil thought it was a good idea to pair him with another non-ball mover in Melo

Mcbuckets, THJ and Kanter, 3 intrical parts to this years team are players added to the roster after phils departure....Lee is a new player as well with the handcuffs off; he says as much in the article. I would take Lees words over speculating forum posters...

Melo certainly isn't a good fit for OKC, but the lack of ball movement isn't completely on Melo. Russ only seems to pass when it will directly lead to an assist, other than that, the ball is going up. Russ, Paul and Melo are all iso players...None are ball movers!

newyorknewyork
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12/12/2017  1:24 PM
fwk00 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1aqeoOfHhk

I really believe Kobe would make a good Gm if he choose to go that route. We know the work ethic will be there. But he always displayed strong bball knowledge. Dont know if he would ensync with analytics or not or be innovative. But he has always shown the ability to evaluate players and systems.

fwk00
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12/12/2017  4:24 PM
Uptown wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
Uptown wrote:https://nypost.com/2017/11/30/this-is-what-courtney-lee-looks-like-without-phils-handcuffs/

“You want me to say it point-blank and clear,’’ Lee said when asked Wednesday about his metamorphosis. “We’re not running the triangle. We’re running a different offense that’s more fast-paced. And it’s more suitable for my style of play.”

Fluck the Triangle!!!!


The team is built much like Phil Jackson would have. We drafted Frank. We don't have an attack the paint, ball dominant point guard. We're a big team, built around 2 Centers. We have great interior defense and KP has added a post game.

The offense system isn't as important as if the team moves the ball. If last year's team was able to break free of Melo/Rose and have a long stretch without them, you would see how they would move the ball and run the Triangle well.

I'm not saying Phil Jackson wasn't an issue for the team, he was meddling maybe too much. The biggest change is Melo gone though. Go watch OKC and see how the ball is always stopping there now. They are 25/30 (sixth worst) in assists. This was us last year.

phil is equally responsible as Melo was for last yrs decable..The confusion from top to bottom that KP complained about was on phil...He was the prez right? Constant medling with the coach, players, the circus atmosphere in the media was on phil. Last yrs team that didn't move the ball also featured D Rose; a phil signing. It was well known that he wasn't a ball mover yet phil thought it was a good idea to pair him with another non-ball mover in Melo

Mcbuckets, THJ and Kanter, 3 intrical parts to this years team are players added to the roster after phils departure....Lee is a new player as well with the handcuffs off; he says as much in the article. I would take Lees words over speculating forum posters...

Melo certainly isn't a good fit for OKC, but the lack of ball movement isn't completely on Melo. Russ only seems to pass when it will directly lead to an assist, other than that, the ball is going up. Russ, Paul and Melo are all iso players...None are ball movers!

To get to the next level the Knicks will need players who are smart enough to play an offense as sophisticated as the Triangle. CLee will be gone come February.

NYKBocker
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12/13/2017  3:28 PM
SupremeCommander
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12/13/2017  3:37 PM
The scientist in me would like to see this roster run the triangle. I think this group of guys would be able to execute it, and would be much more willing to share the ball.

That said, the pragmatist in me doesn't care at all. Things look way better now.

GustavBahler said: Check please....
I miss the Triangle

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