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The Official Frank Ntilikina Versus DSJr Thread
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newyorknewyork
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10/26/2017  1:46 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
franco12 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

VS some good guards.

It may be premature - but if I had to hang my ass out there - we royally messed up by not taking DSjr.

Keep in mind that there's no one on Earth that would rather be proven wrong on this more than me, trust me, but I completely agree with you. No question about it.

Best analogy I can make is we drafted Kerry Kittles instead of Kobe. A solid player instead of a potential star.

Kerry Kittles played 4 yrs of college ball and was 22 yrs old when he came into the league. Averaged 16-3-3 and 17-5-2 his first 2 yrs until injuries derailed is career. He wouldn't have been Kobe but who knows what he would have developed into if injuries didn't derail him.

Frank is 19 yrs old and his body still hasn't matured to its full potential. But that's not even why they drafted him. They drafted him because they viewed him as a high IQ bball player with a great work ethic and high character to go with his physical potential.

There will be a point where Frank is developed physically, and you have Jeff raving about his IQ every time asked. That you only have to tell him once. Knicks are banking on as he matures physically they will have a big long guard with a physical advantage over most guards who comes packaged with a high IQ.

I think DSJ is going to be good. But I don't see a Kobe, or a Curry, or a Westbrook. I see a Kyle Lowry.

AUTOADVERT
HofstraBBall
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10/26/2017  2:25 PM
fishmike wrote:
Welpee wrote:
franco12 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

VS some good guards.

It may be premature - but if I had to hang my ass out there - we royally messed up by not taking DSjr.

After 4 games I bet Philly was happy they drafted Michael Carter-Williams over Giannis Antetokounmpo:

Carter-Williams - 20 ppg, 7.8 ast, 5 reb
Antetokounmpo - 2.6 ppg, 0 ast, 1.3 reb + a DNP

How'd that work out?

Heck, after 4 games Philly may have been happy they drafted Okafor over KP:

Okafor: 20.25 ppg/5.5 reb
KP: 11.25 ppg/8.25 reb

lol good examples.

Seriously are we going to do this all year? If Smith tears his ACL are we going to have a running Malik Monk thread?

Knicks drafted a defensive prospect after decades of stinking on defense. Im ok with it. He's 19. This place is a daily emotional dumping ground. Its silly.

Wait a second....silly? Was it silly making a Melo hate thread every 2 minutes? Is it silly making a thread about how the 15th guy on the benxh will change our record. Was it silly to have a thread go 80 pages on Written? Nah.. And you did read the thread topic right? Lmao

Don't worry Fish you will get your chance. I hope.

But you forgot to add "French league Prototypical Triangle Guy" to "Defensive Prospect" descriptive as to why we picked him. Think the thing is, we should have traded down if we just wanted "Defensive" type players. At least we would have been able to get 2 instead of one. So stop pushing the premise that if he is good defensive plauers then he was worth a top 8 pick. Would love to see the response to that prior to the draft. Fact is, he better be more than that or we wasted the 8th pick and a year of tanking.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
Nalod
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10/26/2017  2:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/26/2017  3:00 PM
We have Fred Weis trauma with French guys still.
Nobody even tries to go near "Tony Parker" comps?

Both are not wickedly quick, both are smooth, good wingspan, Good shooting stroke and French!!!
DId Spurs abandon Kwahi Leonard after three games? Murry? They season guys.
We are not the spurs and their fans might question what they cannot see, but they have faith.
We lack faith and ridicule what we cannot see. We are knick fans and are damaged.

Anger sells, don't buy!
Welpee
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10/26/2017  2:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/26/2017  2:58 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
franco12 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

VS some good guards.

It may be premature - but if I had to hang my ass out there - we royally messed up by not taking DSjr.

Keep in mind that there's no one on Earth that would rather be proven wrong on this more than me, trust me, but I completely agree with you. No question about it.

Best analogy I can make is we drafted Kerry Kittles instead of Kobe. A solid player instead of a potential star.

Or how about in that same draft taking Stephon Marbury over Steve Nash. A potential superstar over a solid player who turned himself into a two time MVP and future hall of famer?

I mean, we can play the analogy game all day.

HofstraBBall
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10/26/2017  6:55 PM
Welpee wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
franco12 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

VS some good guards.

It may be premature - but if I had to hang my ass out there - we royally messed up by not taking DSjr.

Keep in mind that there's no one on Earth that would rather be proven wrong on this more than me, trust me, but I completely agree with you. No question about it.

Best analogy I can make is we drafted Kerry Kittles instead of Kobe. A solid player instead of a potential star.

Or how about in that same draft taking Stephon Marbury over Steve Nash. A potential superstar over a solid player who turned himself into a two time MVP and future hall of famer?

I mean, we can play the analogy game all day.

You mean useless analogies.....we know you can.

Name of thread. Who is better? So far? The End. Until tomorrow that is.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
knicks1248
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10/26/2017  6:58 PM
fRANK IS SET TO PLAY 8 to 10 mins tmrw...and we're scared to trade this kid..We might be holding on to a balkman type player, and we are talking about rebuilding with these types..

On a optimism note, GMs are willing to trade for him so the potential is there, but with out the right coach and support cast, that can be the down fall like the previous players we have drafted.

You see, CHARLIE WARD or CHRIS CHILDS would be consider trash on this current roster, but when you put them around the sprewells, the ewings, the LJs, the camby's and a solid coach, they become very solid pieces.

ES
nixluva
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10/26/2017  7:17 PM
knicks1248 wrote:fRANK IS SET TO PLAY 8 to 10 mins tmrw...and we're scared to trade this kid..We might be holding on to a balkman type player, and we are talking about rebuilding with these types..

On a optimism note, GMs are willing to trade for him so the potential is there, but with out the right coach and support cast, that can be the down fall like the previous players we have drafted.

You see, CHARLIE WARD or CHRIS CHILDS would be consider trash on this current roster, but when you put them around the sprewells, the ewings, the LJs, the camby's and a solid coach, they become very solid pieces.

Why are you so shortsighted when it comes to a kid like Ntilikina who has yet to really start his career? Why should we be looking to trade a kid we just drafted at #8 before he even gets a chance to show what he can do?

This team is really about the young players on the team. We want them to do well, but it's still a REBUILD and as such we have to accept that they're in development. Not every single young player is going to immediately reach their potential. That's why you need some kind of patience. The Knicks are most likely going to be adding more young talent to the core and development group next summer.


NO. NAME POS AGE HT WT
11 Frank Ntilikina PG 19 6-5 190
2 Luke Kornet PF 22 7-1 250
6 Kristaps Porzingis PF 22 7-3 240
21 Damyean Dotson SG 23 6-5 210
14 Willy Hernangomez C 23 6-11 240
4 Isaiah Hicks PF 23 6-9 242
31 Ron Baker SG 24 6-4 220
3 Tim Hardaway Jr. SG 25 6-6 205
00 Enes Kanter C 25 6-11 245
20 Doug McDermott SF 25 6-8 219
CrushAlot
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10/26/2017  7:25 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
franco12 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

VS some good guards.

It may be premature - but if I had to hang my ass out there - we royally messed up by not taking DSjr.

Keep in mind that there's no one on Earth that would rather be proven wrong on this more than me, trust me, but I completely agree with you. No question about it.

Best analogy I can make is we drafted Kerry Kittles instead of Kobe. A solid player instead of a potential star.

Kerry Kittles played 4 yrs of college ball and was 22 yrs old when he came into the league. Averaged 16-3-3 and 17-5-2 his first 2 yrs until injuries derailed is career. He wouldn't have been Kobe but who knows what he would have developed into if injuries didn't derail him.

Frank is 19 yrs old and his body still hasn't matured to its full potential. But that's not even why they drafted him. They drafted him because they viewed him as a high IQ bball player with a great work ethic and high character to go with his physical potential.

There will be a point where Frank is developed physically, and you have Jeff raving about his IQ every time asked. That you only have to tell him once. Knicks are banking on as he matures physically they will have a big long guard with a physical advantage over most guards who comes packaged with a high IQ.

I think DSJ is going to be good. But I don't see a Kobe, or a Curry, or a Westbrook. I see a Kyle Lowry.

Hornacek was also talking about his wingspan and how he can play back on guys and they don't expect him to be able to make steals when he does. Would love to see him get on the court for an extended amount of time.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
reub
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10/26/2017  7:39 PM
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:fRANK IS SET TO PLAY 8 to 10 mins tmrw...and we're scared to trade this kid..We might be holding on to a balkman type player, and we are talking about rebuilding with these types..

On a optimism note, GMs are willing to trade for him so the potential is there, but with out the right coach and support cast, that can be the down fall like the previous players we have drafted.

You see, CHARLIE WARD or CHRIS CHILDS would be consider trash on this current roster, but when you put them around the sprewells, the ewings, the LJs, the camby's and a solid coach, they become very solid pieces.

Why are you so shortsighted when it comes to a kid like Ntilikina who has yet to really start his career? Why should we be looking to trade a kid we just drafted at #8 before he even gets a chance to show what he can do?

This team is really about the young players on the team. We want them to do well, but it's still a REBUILD and as such we have to accept that they're in development. Not every single young player is going to immediately reach their potential. That's why you need some kind of patience. The Knicks are most likely going to be adding more young talent to the core and development group next summer.


NO. NAME POS AGE HT WT
11 Frank Ntilikina PG 19 6-5 190
2 Luke Kornet PF 22 7-1 250
6 Kristaps Porzingis PF 22 7-3 240
21 Damyean Dotson SG 23 6-5 210
14 Willy Hernangomez C 23 6-11 240
4 Isaiah Hicks PF 23 6-9 242
31 Ron Baker SG 24 6-4 220
3 Tim Hardaway Jr. SG 25 6-6 205
00 Enes Kanter C 25 6-11 245
20 Doug McDermott SF 25 6-8 219

What will be their ages when we finally become good??
nykshaknbake
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10/26/2017  8:09 PM
Welpee wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
franco12 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

VS some good guards.

It may be premature - but if I had to hang my ass out there - we royally messed up by not taking DSjr.

Keep in mind that there's no one on Earth that would rather be proven wrong on this more than me, trust me, but I completely agree with you. No question about it.

Best analogy I can make is we drafted Kerry Kittles instead of Kobe. A solid player instead of a potential star.

Or how about in that same draft taking Stephon Marbury over Steve Nash. A potential superstar over a solid player who turned himself into a two time MVP and future hall of famer?

I mean, we can play the analogy game all day.


I've never understood comparisons like this. Are you saying players who do worse in their early careers do better than their peers later on? If that isn't statistically true then spouting out exceptions to the rule is like saying buying lottery tickets is a good investment strategy and naming lottery winners as proof.

That said, I think we have to give Frank until the end of the season. If he can't wrest the job from the terrible Ramon sessions and Baker, he'll be looking like a bust. If he can by seasons end their maybe hope yet.

nixluva
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10/26/2017  8:45 PM
reub wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:fRANK IS SET TO PLAY 8 to 10 mins tmrw...and we're scared to trade this kid..We might be holding on to a balkman type player, and we are talking about rebuilding with these types..

On a optimism note, GMs are willing to trade for him so the potential is there, but with out the right coach and support cast, that can be the down fall like the previous players we have drafted.

You see, CHARLIE WARD or CHRIS CHILDS would be consider trash on this current roster, but when you put them around the sprewells, the ewings, the LJs, the camby's and a solid coach, they become very solid pieces.

Why are you so shortsighted when it comes to a kid like Ntilikina who has yet to really start his career? Why should we be looking to trade a kid we just drafted at #8 before he even gets a chance to show what he can do?

This team is really about the young players on the team. We want them to do well, but it's still a REBUILD and as such we have to accept that they're in development. Not every single young player is going to immediately reach their potential. That's why you need some kind of patience. The Knicks are most likely going to be adding more young talent to the core and development group next summer.


NO. NAME POS AGE HT WT
11 Frank Ntilikina PG 19 6-5 190
2 Luke Kornet PF 22 7-1 250
6 Kristaps Porzingis PF 22 7-3 240
21 Damyean Dotson SG 23 6-5 210
14 Willy Hernangomez C 23 6-11 240
4 Isaiah Hicks PF 23 6-9 242
31 Ron Baker SG 24 6-4 220
3 Tim Hardaway Jr. SG 25 6-6 205
00 Enes Kanter C 25 6-11 245
20 Doug McDermott SF 25 6-8 219

What will be their ages when we finally become good??

Well the process is certainly longer than 3 games into this season!!! You can't get so caught up in how long this will take when you literally are at the very beginning of the process. Wouldn't you agree that a 19 and 22 yr old have a few years to put it all together and show who they're going to be? We haven't even given them a chance to grow THIS SEASON. Still got 79 games to go.

This isn't about W/L's as much as it's about growth and development. This is still a rebuild and if the kids play well and win games. GREAT. If they play well but still lose. GREAT! All it means is that we'll get another good draft pick. Despite the 2 bad losses this team did actually have a good game against the Pistons.
They should've won that game and maybe as they build chemistry they win more of those kinds of games. The Heat started 11-30 last year but turned things around. It just shows you need to see how the whole season plays out.

Welpee
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10/27/2017  6:35 AM
nykshaknbake wrote:
Welpee wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
franco12 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

VS some good guards.

It may be premature - but if I had to hang my ass out there - we royally messed up by not taking DSjr.

Keep in mind that there's no one on Earth that would rather be proven wrong on this more than me, trust me, but I completely agree with you. No question about it.

Best analogy I can make is we drafted Kerry Kittles instead of Kobe. A solid player instead of a potential star.

Or how about in that same draft taking Stephon Marbury over Steve Nash. A potential superstar over a solid player who turned himself into a two time MVP and future hall of famer?

I mean, we can play the analogy game all day.


I've never understood comparisons like this. Are you saying players who do worse in their early careers do better than their peers later on? If that isn't statistically true then spouting out exceptions to the rule is like saying buying lottery tickets is a good investment strategy and naming lottery winners as proof.
Again, the point is that it's ridiculous to take the first three or four games of a player's career and determine you will regret drafting player A instead of player B.
blkexec
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10/27/2017  9:14 AM
Welpee wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
Welpee wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
franco12 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

VS some good guards.

It may be premature - but if I had to hang my ass out there - we royally messed up by not taking DSjr.

Keep in mind that there's no one on Earth that would rather be proven wrong on this more than me, trust me, but I completely agree with you. No question about it.

Best analogy I can make is we drafted Kerry Kittles instead of Kobe. A solid player instead of a potential star.

Or how about in that same draft taking Stephon Marbury over Steve Nash. A potential superstar over a solid player who turned himself into a two time MVP and future hall of famer?

I mean, we can play the analogy game all day.


I've never understood comparisons like this. Are you saying players who do worse in their early careers do better than their peers later on? If that isn't statistically true then spouting out exceptions to the rule is like saying buying lottery tickets is a good investment strategy and naming lottery winners as proof.
Again, the point is that it's ridiculous to take the first three or four games of a player's career and determine you will regret drafting player A instead of player B.

You know what's funny.......if we drafted DSJ......we will be all over Mills for passing on a defensive PG with a high IQ and plays the right way.......also he can shoot.

DSJ is similar to rose as far as explosiveness and injury prone. Not DSJ is out with a knee a d knick fans would've started a similar tbread......hyping Frank.

Knick fans never tanked or rebuild before......so nobody fully embraced the process......Lets see if management has more patience than knick fans.

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
fishmike
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10/27/2017  10:01 AM
blkexec wrote:
Welpee wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
Welpee wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
franco12 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

VS some good guards.

It may be premature - but if I had to hang my ass out there - we royally messed up by not taking DSjr.

Keep in mind that there's no one on Earth that would rather be proven wrong on this more than me, trust me, but I completely agree with you. No question about it.

Best analogy I can make is we drafted Kerry Kittles instead of Kobe. A solid player instead of a potential star.

Or how about in that same draft taking Stephon Marbury over Steve Nash. A potential superstar over a solid player who turned himself into a two time MVP and future hall of famer?

I mean, we can play the analogy game all day.


I've never understood comparisons like this. Are you saying players who do worse in their early careers do better than their peers later on? If that isn't statistically true then spouting out exceptions to the rule is like saying buying lottery tickets is a good investment strategy and naming lottery winners as proof.
Again, the point is that it's ridiculous to take the first three or four games of a player's career and determine you will regret drafting player A instead of player B.

You know what's funny.......if we drafted DSJ......we will be all over Mills for passing on a defensive PG with a high IQ and plays the right way.......also he can shoot.

DSJ is similar to rose as far as explosiveness and injury prone. Not DSJ is out with a knee a d knick fans would've started a similar tbread......hyping Frank.

Knick fans never tanked or rebuild before......so nobody fully embraced the process......Lets see if management has more patience than knick fans.

how can they embrace the process when everyone is smarter than the Knick's FO, knows we should have drafted different players, knows they are smarter than the coaches and just cant get why Kurt Rambis is here?

Your right though.. there is no such thing as losing gracefully in sports.

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
ekstarks94
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10/27/2017  10:36 AM
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Welpee wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
Welpee wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
franco12 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:

VS some good guards.

It may be premature - but if I had to hang my ass out there - we royally messed up by not taking DSjr.

Keep in mind that there's no one on Earth that would rather be proven wrong on this more than me, trust me, but I completely agree with you. No question about it.

Best analogy I can make is we drafted Kerry Kittles instead of Kobe. A solid player instead of a potential star.

Or how about in that same draft taking Stephon Marbury over Steve Nash. A potential superstar over a solid player who turned himself into a two time MVP and future hall of famer?

I mean, we can play the analogy game all day.


I've never understood comparisons like this. Are you saying players who do worse in their early careers do better than their peers later on? If that isn't statistically true then spouting out exceptions to the rule is like saying buying lottery tickets is a good investment strategy and naming lottery winners as proof.
Again, the point is that it's ridiculous to take the first three or four games of a player's career and determine you will regret drafting player A instead of player B.

You know what's funny.......if we drafted DSJ......we will be all over Mills for passing on a defensive PG with a high IQ and plays the right way.......also he can shoot.

DSJ is similar to rose as far as explosiveness and injury prone. Not DSJ is out with a knee a d knick fans would've started a similar tbread......hyping Frank.

Knick fans never tanked or rebuild before......so nobody fully embraced the process......Lets see if management has more patience than knick fans.

how can they embrace the process when everyone is smarter than the Knick's FO, knows we should have drafted different players, knows they are smarter than the coaches and just cant get why Kurt Rambis is here?

Your right though.. there is no such thing as losing gracefully in sports.

Grass is always greener on the other side.

reub
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10/27/2017  11:19 AM
nixluva wrote:
reub wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:fRANK IS SET TO PLAY 8 to 10 mins tmrw...and we're scared to trade this kid..We might be holding on to a balkman type player, and we are talking about rebuilding with these types..

On a optimism note, GMs are willing to trade for him so the potential is there, but with out the right coach and support cast, that can be the down fall like the previous players we have drafted.

You see, CHARLIE WARD or CHRIS CHILDS would be consider trash on this current roster, but when you put them around the sprewells, the ewings, the LJs, the camby's and a solid coach, they become very solid pieces.

Why are you so shortsighted when it comes to a kid like Ntilikina who has yet to really start his career? Why should we be looking to trade a kid we just drafted at #8 before he even gets a chance to show what he can do?

This team is really about the young players on the team. We want them to do well, but it's still a REBUILD and as such we have to accept that they're in development. Not every single young player is going to immediately reach their potential. That's why you need some kind of patience. The Knicks are most likely going to be adding more young talent to the core and development group next summer.


NO. NAME POS AGE HT WT
11 Frank Ntilikina PG 19 6-5 190
2 Luke Kornet PF 22 7-1 250
6 Kristaps Porzingis PF 22 7-3 240
21 Damyean Dotson SG 23 6-5 210
14 Willy Hernangomez C 23 6-11 240
4 Isaiah Hicks PF 23 6-9 242
31 Ron Baker SG 24 6-4 220
3 Tim Hardaway Jr. SG 25 6-6 205
00 Enes Kanter C 25 6-11 245
20 Doug McDermott SF 25 6-8 219

What will be their ages when we finally become good??

Well the process is certainly longer than 3 games into this season!!! You can't get so caught up in how long this will take when you literally are at the very beginning of the process. Wouldn't you agree that a 19 and 22 yr old have a few years to put it all together and show who they're going to be? We haven't even given them a chance to grow THIS SEASON. Still got 79 games to go.

This isn't about W/L's as much as it's about growth and development. This is still a rebuild and if the kids play well and win games. GREAT. If they play well but still lose. GREAT! All it means is that we'll get another good draft pick. Despite the 2 bad losses this team did actually have a good game against the Pistons.
They should've won that game and maybe as they build chemistry they win more of those kinds of games. The Heat started 11-30 last year but turned things around. It just shows you need to see how the whole season plays out.

Yes, I agree. Was just joking about it. I like the rebuild plan.

Nalod
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10/27/2017  1:05 PM
knicks1248 wrote:fRANK IS SET TO PLAY 8 to 10 mins tmrw...and we're scared to trade this kid..We might be holding on to a balkman type player, and we are talking about rebuilding with these types..

On a optimism note, GMs are willing to trade for him so the potential is there, but with out the right coach and support cast, that can be the down fall like the previous players we have drafted.
You see, CHARLIE WARD or CHRIS CHILDS would be consider trash on this current roster, but when you put them around the sprewells, the ewings, the LJs, the camby's and a solid coach, they become very solid pieces.

You making things up again.

Anger sells, don't buy!
HofstraBBall
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10/27/2017  4:33 PM
Let's go Frank! Let's go Frank! Hopefully JH gives him decent run tonight.
Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
CrushAlot
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10/27/2017  4:54 PM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:fRANK IS SET TO PLAY 8 to 10 mins tmrw...and we're scared to trade this kid..We might be holding on to a balkman type player, and we are talking about rebuilding with these types..

On a optimism note, GMs are willing to trade for him so the potential is there, but with out the right coach and support cast, that can be the down fall like the previous players we have drafted.
You see, CHARLIE WARD or CHRIS CHILDS would be consider trash on this current roster, but when you put them around the sprewells, the ewings, the LJs, the camby's and a solid coach, they become very solid pieces.

You making things up again.

Not according to Begley.
Ntilikina is also unlikely to play major minutes against Brooklyn. He registered just eight minutes in the Knicks' season-opening loss against Oklahoma City.

Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek suggested that he'll play a similar amount of time against Brooklyn.


http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21169473/new-york-knicks-rookie-frank-ntilikina-ankle-expected-play-friday
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
fishmike
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10/27/2017  4:54 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:Let's go Frank! Let's go Frank! Hopefully JH gives him decent run tonight.

I am very curious to see the dynamic with him on the floor. There were a few moments I swore a few of his teammates were not happy about him being on the floor, why I dont know. Could have been nothing, was just a vibe.

One thing I saw in preseason from him that was promising was an NBA handle and good passing... 2 things we desperately need right now.

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
The Official Frank Ntilikina Versus DSJr Thread

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