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The Official Frank Ntilikina Versus DSJr Thread
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knicks1248
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12/5/2017  10:35 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:We should rename this the “Official every time a draft pick after frank has a better game lament thread”.
Today Frank will never imporove, and Mitchell is Dwade.
So we move from Smith to Mitchell.
Fair enough, until Frank becomes who he is this will go on.
Mitchell is already top 3 in this class and that is with Simmons and Tatum. He looks like he will be a very good player for a long time. It isn't about him having a good game. He just is a very good player and has been playing that way.

DOnt kid yourself, its about the fan having the benefit of hindsight and thinking the are smarter.
20 games in. Let’s talk after 200? By then Briggs will have fallen in love 200 times.
I care only about Frank and his development, not second guessing. BTW there will always be someone u which we would have picked. Every year. Always.


Mitchell had 31 tonight.

Frank has long arms

ES
AUTOADVERT
newyorknewyork
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12/5/2017  11:12 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:We should rename this the “Official every time a draft pick after frank has a better game lament thread”.
Today Frank will never imporove, and Mitchell is Dwade.
So we move from Smith to Mitchell.
Fair enough, until Frank becomes who he is this will go on.
Mitchell is already top 3 in this class and that is with Simmons and Tatum. He looks like he will be a very good player for a long time. It isn't about him having a good game. He just is a very good player and has been playing that way.

DOnt kid yourself, its about the fan having the benefit of hindsight and thinking the are smarter.
20 games in. Let’s talk after 200? By then Briggs will have fallen in love 200 times.
I care only about Frank and his development, not second guessing. BTW there will always be someone u which we would have picked. Every year. Always.


Mitchell had 31 tonight.

Frank has long arms

You probably would be crapping on Mitchell as well if he came out for the draft last yr.

BigDaddyG
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12/5/2017  11:49 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:We should rename this the “Official every time a draft pick after frank has a better game lament thread”.
Today Frank will never imporove, and Mitchell is Dwade.
So we move from Smith to Mitchell.
Fair enough, until Frank becomes who he is this will go on.
Mitchell is already top 3 in this class and that is with Simmons and Tatum. He looks like he will be a very good player for a long time. It isn't about him having a good game. He just is a very good player and has been playing that way.

DOnt kid yourself, its about the fan having the benefit of hindsight and thinking the are smarter.
20 games in. Let’s talk after 200? By then Briggs will have fallen in love 200 times.
I care only about Frank and his development, not second guessing. BTW there will always be someone u which we would have picked. Every year. Always.


Mitchell had 31 tonight.

Frank has long arms


Brandon Jennings only needed seven games to have a 55 point game in his rookie season.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
reub
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12/5/2017  11:58 PM
Why Frank will be better than Dennis:

HofstraBBall
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12/6/2017  7:06 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/6/2017  7:20 AM
Nalod wrote:TripleThreat wrote this in a different thread. Speaks well here also.


IRC, blkexec has discussed that he has a heavy affiliation with AAU basketball ( Amateur Athletic Union) I'm not going to sweep this with a broad brush completely, but nothing about what Frank Ntilikina has to offer is going to vibe with someone with the average AAU mindset ( Heavy volume of games, stacked talent teams, emphasis for the players on getting noticed by scouts, team handlers looking for cash kickbacks, "jobs" with either the brands or a college program and just riding athleticism to get as many wins as possible to keep the various shoe brands happy. There is very little emphasis on team play and team defense, I'd wager some teams do, but it would appear to be the exception rather than the rule.
blkexec is right in one way, Ntilikina might not pan out. But he's right for the wrong reason, i.e. almost everything blkexec says comes from a guy who appears to apply AAU methodology onto the actual NBA. It's nowhere near the same. But it requires letting go of one's own ego to get to that point. You can win in the AAU just be feeding the ball to a kid who just overpowers everyone else because he's more athletic or more developed than them. To be totally fair, college ball is just as exploitative as the worst elements in AAU. And lots of kids would not get a college scholarship otherwise, without the AAU. And playing against better competition has it's benefits. But what Ntilikina brings is really not going to sell hard to the typical AAU brand jockey.
There's no money in great footwork. There's no money in fundamental play. You don't get a shoe deal for being a solid glue guy. You get the full bore swag and attention from dunking over a car. From beating the living **** out of your Disney pop star princess girlfriend. From shooting up a nightclub with an Uzi and getting on TMZ. There's also no money in time. AAU is ready now/win now/get now kind of methodology. Actually waiting for Ntilikina to get 2-3 seasons under his belt to see what he might be is just waiting too long for the typical AAU brand jockey.

Don't agree with this argument. You know what you call the guy described in the included post? A good second rounder! People defending Frank don't get that. Yes he is a decent defender. Yes he has an ok stroke. Yes he feeds KP the rock. But he is NOT a lottery pick!! And the guys that picked him cared more about their system guy than picking the best player available. You look at Mitchell or Smith and that is a lottery pick. As for AAU.. to pick on the system that has produced 99% of the good players in the NBA is a bit short sighted. Would also disagree that the major college programs that have produced most of the top draft picks are not team oriented. If you look programs like Duke, Kentucky and NC its actually the opoosite. Imdividual offensive skills are sacrificed for the sake of the team comcept. Reason why some come out of those programs and shine in a the more NBA selfish style.

Just think its Funny how guys on here pick on Mitchell and Smith claiming they will never improve, as good as they are, while guaranteeing Frank's stock will climb to HOF status. This is simple. Knicks made a mistake. Frank was not a 8 pick. Let's hope the Kid improves. If not, we need a better PG.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
Nalod
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12/6/2017  8:43 AM
There is always a player one regrets passing on. All players all drafts.
There are many exceptions like Kawhi Leonard and Lillard but for the most part there are always players like Mitchell. And we just a quarter into the season. Mitchell is the better player now. We stopped talking bout Smith? Frank has had good games, good moments.
Some fans can’t fathom or like the uncertainty of player development.
Anger sells, don't buy!
TheGame
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12/6/2017  9:18 AM
This debate is pointless. It will take about 3 years before we have any idea who the better player is. Frank has to get used to American style basketball, he needs to stronger (both Smith and Mitchell are more developed physically), and Frank needs to develop his confidence. I will reserve judgment until Year 3 of Frank's tenure.
Playoffs or bust
newyorknewyork
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12/6/2017  12:43 PM
TheGame wrote:This debate is pointless. It will take about 3 years before we have any idea who the better player is. Frank has to get used to American style basketball, he needs to stronger (both Smith and Mitchell are more developed physically), and Frank needs to develop his confidence. I will reserve judgment until Year 3 of Frank's tenure.

But that wouldn't be convenient. Its more convenient to get on him while he is 19. May not have the same luxury when he is 21-22

BRIGGS
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12/6/2017  12:46 PM
Donovan Mitchell is already better than Frank will ever be--he will never be at Mitchells level he is playing at. He doesnt have the body or the athletic ability Mitchell is the number 1 player in this draft and its not really close. Youre looking at the new Wade.
newyorknewyork
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12/6/2017  12:48 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Donovan Mitchell is already better than Frank will ever be--he will never be at Mitchells level he is playing at. He doesnt have the body or the athletic ability Mitchell is the number 1 player in this draft and its not really close. Youre looking at the new Wade.

He doesn't have to be Donovan Mitchell. He just has to turn into a quality player himself that can help us win games.

BRIGGS
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12/6/2017  1:00 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Donovan Mitchell is already better than Frank will ever be--he will never be at Mitchells level he is playing at. He doesnt have the body or the athletic ability Mitchell is the number 1 player in this draft and its not really close. Youre looking at the new Wade.

He doesn't have to be Donovan Mitchell. He just has to turn into a quality player himself that can help us win games.

Actually Tatum is a superstar too. Not only did the Cs get a top2 player who starts on a 21-4 team(without their key free agent) but they pilvered another number 1 pick from Philly for it. Ainge was out looking at Deandre AAyton yesterday.

newyorknewyork
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12/6/2017  1:03 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Donovan Mitchell is already better than Frank will ever be--he will never be at Mitchells level he is playing at. He doesnt have the body or the athletic ability Mitchell is the number 1 player in this draft and its not really close. Youre looking at the new Wade.

He doesn't have to be Donovan Mitchell. He just has to turn into a quality player himself that can help us win games.

Actually Tatum is a superstar too. Not only did the Cs get a top2 player who starts on a 21-4 team(without their key free agent) but they pilvered another number 1 pick from Philly for it. Ainge was out looking at Deandre AAyton yesterday.

Mitchell have been given more responsibility so he has the edge.

Cartman718
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12/6/2017  1:27 PM
reub wrote:Why Frank will be better than Dennis:


good video
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
BigDaddyG
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12/6/2017  1:30 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Donovan Mitchell is already better than Frank will ever be--he will never be at Mitchells level he is playing at. He doesnt have the body or the athletic ability Mitchell is the number 1 player in this draft and its not really close. Youre looking at the new Wade.

Briggs, I respect the dialogue you foster. But Mitchell is the best player in this draft class? Have you watched Tatum? You were touting Kuzma a couple of weeks ago and you forgot about him already? Let's slow it down.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
CrushAlot
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12/6/2017  5:55 PM
TheGame wrote:This debate is pointless. It will take about 3 years before we have any idea who the better player is. Frank has to get used to American style basketball, he needs to stronger (both Smith and Mitchell are more developed physically), and Frank needs to develop his confidence. I will reserve judgment until Year 3 of Frank's tenure.
Frank is a Knick and I want him to be successful and have a long career with the Knicks. However, I don't think there is anyway that Frank becomes the player Mitchell is.
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
Uptown
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12/6/2017  7:53 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:TripleThreat wrote this in a different thread. Speaks well here also.


IRC, blkexec has discussed that he has a heavy affiliation with AAU basketball ( Amateur Athletic Union) I'm not going to sweep this with a broad brush completely, but nothing about what Frank Ntilikina has to offer is going to vibe with someone with the average AAU mindset ( Heavy volume of games, stacked talent teams, emphasis for the players on getting noticed by scouts, team handlers looking for cash kickbacks, "jobs" with either the brands or a college program and just riding athleticism to get as many wins as possible to keep the various shoe brands happy. There is very little emphasis on team play and team defense, I'd wager some teams do, but it would appear to be the exception rather than the rule.
blkexec is right in one way, Ntilikina might not pan out. But he's right for the wrong reason, i.e. almost everything blkexec says comes from a guy who appears to apply AAU methodology onto the actual NBA. It's nowhere near the same. But it requires letting go of one's own ego to get to that point. You can win in the AAU just be feeding the ball to a kid who just overpowers everyone else because he's more athletic or more developed than them. To be totally fair, college ball is just as exploitative as the worst elements in AAU. And lots of kids would not get a college scholarship otherwise, without the AAU. And playing against better competition has it's benefits. But what Ntilikina brings is really not going to sell hard to the typical AAU brand jockey.
There's no money in great footwork. There's no money in fundamental play. You don't get a shoe deal for being a solid glue guy. You get the full bore swag and attention from dunking over a car. From beating the living **** out of your Disney pop star princess girlfriend. From shooting up a nightclub with an Uzi and getting on TMZ. There's also no money in time. AAU is ready now/win now/get now kind of methodology. Actually waiting for Ntilikina to get 2-3 seasons under his belt to see what he might be is just waiting too long for the typical AAU brand jockey.

Don't agree with this argument. You know what you call the guy described in the included post? A good second rounder! People defending Frank don't get that. Yes he is a decent defender. Yes he has an ok stroke. Yes he feeds KP the rock. But he is NOT a lottery pick!! And the guys that picked him cared more about their system guy than picking the best player available. You look at Mitchell or Smith and that is a lottery pick. As for AAU.. to pick on the system that has produced 99% of the good players in the NBA is a bit short sighted. Would also disagree that the major college programs that have produced most of the top draft picks are not team oriented. If you look programs like Duke, Kentucky and NC its actually the opoosite. Imdividual offensive skills are sacrificed for the sake of the team comcept. Reason why some come out of those programs and shine in a the more NBA selfish style.

Just think its Funny how guys on here pick on Mitchell and Smith claiming they will never improve, as good as they are, while guaranteeing Frank's stock will climb to HOF status. This is simple. Knicks made a mistake. Frank was not a 8 pick. Let's hope the Kid improves. If not, we need a better PG.

+1000

BigDaddyG
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12/6/2017  8:53 PM
Uptown wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:TripleThreat wrote this in a different thread. Speaks well here also.


IRC, blkexec has discussed that he has a heavy affiliation with AAU basketball ( Amateur Athletic Union) I'm not going to sweep this with a broad brush completely, but nothing about what Frank Ntilikina has to offer is going to vibe with someone with the average AAU mindset ( Heavy volume of games, stacked talent teams, emphasis for the players on getting noticed by scouts, team handlers looking for cash kickbacks, "jobs" with either the brands or a college program and just riding athleticism to get as many wins as possible to keep the various shoe brands happy. There is very little emphasis on team play and team defense, I'd wager some teams do, but it would appear to be the exception rather than the rule.
blkexec is right in one way, Ntilikina might not pan out. But he's right for the wrong reason, i.e. almost everything blkexec says comes from a guy who appears to apply AAU methodology onto the actual NBA. It's nowhere near the same. But it requires letting go of one's own ego to get to that point. You can win in the AAU just be feeding the ball to a kid who just overpowers everyone else because he's more athletic or more developed than them. To be totally fair, college ball is just as exploitative as the worst elements in AAU. And lots of kids would not get a college scholarship otherwise, without the AAU. And playing against better competition has it's benefits. But what Ntilikina brings is really not going to sell hard to the typical AAU brand jockey.
There's no money in great footwork. There's no money in fundamental play. You don't get a shoe deal for being a solid glue guy. You get the full bore swag and attention from dunking over a car. From beating the living **** out of your Disney pop star princess girlfriend. From shooting up a nightclub with an Uzi and getting on TMZ. There's also no money in time. AAU is ready now/win now/get now kind of methodology. Actually waiting for Ntilikina to get 2-3 seasons under his belt to see what he might be is just waiting too long for the typical AAU brand jockey.

Don't agree with this argument. You know what you call the guy described in the included post? A good second rounder! People defending Frank don't get that. Yes he is a decent defender. Yes he has an ok stroke. Yes he feeds KP the rock. But he is NOT a lottery pick!! And the guys that picked him cared more about their system guy than picking the best player available. You look at Mitchell or Smith and that is a lottery pick. As for AAU.. to pick on the system that has produced 99% of the good players in the NBA is a bit short sighted. Would also disagree that the major college programs that have produced most of the top draft picks are not team oriented. If you look programs like Duke, Kentucky and NC its actually the opoosite. Imdividual offensive skills are sacrificed for the sake of the team comcept. Reason why some come out of those programs and shine in a the more NBA selfish style.

Just think its Funny how guys on here pick on Mitchell and Smith claiming they will never improve, as good as they are, while guaranteeing Frank's stock will climb to HOF status. This is simple. Knicks made a mistake. Frank was not a 8 pick. Let's hope the Kid improves. If not, we need a better PG.

+1000


Good thing you weren't in the Dallas front office when Dirk was on the board. BTW, I don't see anybody mentioning DSJ and his 1:1Assist/Turnover ratio anymore.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
nyk2017
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12/6/2017  10:06 PM
Frank will definitely be a year 3 player. We are not going to find out if he will be a bust or an all-star until year 3. He needs a lot of work in his game. He plays so tentative and needs to build confidence. Maybe he needs to get laid.
NardDogNation
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12/6/2017  10:14 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Uptown wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:TripleThreat wrote this in a different thread. Speaks well here also.


IRC, blkexec has discussed that he has a heavy affiliation with AAU basketball ( Amateur Athletic Union) I'm not going to sweep this with a broad brush completely, but nothing about what Frank Ntilikina has to offer is going to vibe with someone with the average AAU mindset ( Heavy volume of games, stacked talent teams, emphasis for the players on getting noticed by scouts, team handlers looking for cash kickbacks, "jobs" with either the brands or a college program and just riding athleticism to get as many wins as possible to keep the various shoe brands happy. There is very little emphasis on team play and team defense, I'd wager some teams do, but it would appear to be the exception rather than the rule.
blkexec is right in one way, Ntilikina might not pan out. But he's right for the wrong reason, i.e. almost everything blkexec says comes from a guy who appears to apply AAU methodology onto the actual NBA. It's nowhere near the same. But it requires letting go of one's own ego to get to that point. You can win in the AAU just be feeding the ball to a kid who just overpowers everyone else because he's more athletic or more developed than them. To be totally fair, college ball is just as exploitative as the worst elements in AAU. And lots of kids would not get a college scholarship otherwise, without the AAU. And playing against better competition has it's benefits. But what Ntilikina brings is really not going to sell hard to the typical AAU brand jockey.
There's no money in great footwork. There's no money in fundamental play. You don't get a shoe deal for being a solid glue guy. You get the full bore swag and attention from dunking over a car. From beating the living **** out of your Disney pop star princess girlfriend. From shooting up a nightclub with an Uzi and getting on TMZ. There's also no money in time. AAU is ready now/win now/get now kind of methodology. Actually waiting for Ntilikina to get 2-3 seasons under his belt to see what he might be is just waiting too long for the typical AAU brand jockey.

Don't agree with this argument. You know what you call the guy described in the included post? A good second rounder! People defending Frank don't get that. Yes he is a decent defender. Yes he has an ok stroke. Yes he feeds KP the rock. But he is NOT a lottery pick!! And the guys that picked him cared more about their system guy than picking the best player available. You look at Mitchell or Smith and that is a lottery pick. As for AAU.. to pick on the system that has produced 99% of the good players in the NBA is a bit short sighted. Would also disagree that the major college programs that have produced most of the top draft picks are not team oriented. If you look programs like Duke, Kentucky and NC its actually the opoosite. Imdividual offensive skills are sacrificed for the sake of the team comcept. Reason why some come out of those programs and shine in a the more NBA selfish style.

Just think its Funny how guys on here pick on Mitchell and Smith claiming they will never improve, as good as they are, while guaranteeing Frank's stock will climb to HOF status. This is simple. Knicks made a mistake. Frank was not a 8 pick. Let's hope the Kid improves. If not, we need a better PG.

+1000


Good thing you weren't in the Dallas front office when Dirk was on the board. BTW, I don't see anybody mentioning DSJ and his 1:1Assist/Turnover ratio anymore.

To be honest, I never understood the hypemachine that came with DSJr. I think he'll be a good player pn the level of an Eric Bledsoe-type but he is certainly not the kind of player that will be the best player on a contender. And if he's not the best player on a contender, will you want him to have the usage-rate that his skillset will necessitate?

newyorknewyork
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12/6/2017  10:30 PM
nyk2017 wrote:Frank will definitely be a year 3 player. We are not going to find out if he will be a bust or an all-star until year 3. He needs a lot of work in his game. He plays so tentative and needs to build confidence. Maybe he needs to get laid.

The Official Frank Ntilikina Versus DSJr Thread

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