[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Baker Misunderstood
Author Thread
nixluva
Posts: 55243
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/20/2017  12:19 PM
All over Twitter and the Internet I read varying levels of disrespect for Ron Baker. No he’s not a PG! He’s a Combo Guard and still trying to put it all together but he has a POSITIVE IMPACT that doesn’t always pass the Eye Test but it’s true!

This article does a nice job of breaking it down:
https://medium.com/the-knicks-wall/knicks-film-study-opening-night-porzingis-vs-melo-ron-baker-more-c8ff9a6dbe91

Ron Baker: first rotation of the season
When Ron Baker entered the game on Thursday, the Knicks were losing 17–12 and #KnicksTwitter was ready to explode because rookie Frank Ntilikina wasn’t the first guard off the bench. It didn’t help that Baker promptly turned over the ball on a lazy pass and then let Russ spin right around him on D.
But from that point, until Ntilikina replaced Baker early in the second quarter, the Knicks went on a 15–7 run to tie the game. Baker was a Swiss Army Knife of statistics during the run — accumulating one assist, one rebound, one steal, one foul, and one turnover.
A few key notes about this stretch:

Ron Baker entered the game as Kristaps Porzingis left the game. Jeff Hornacek initially had Baker with Lee, McDermott, Thomas, and Kanter. Michael Beasley entered shortly after, only to get hurt, bringing Porzingis back on the court for the majority of the run.

After beating Baker in the post, the Knicks put Courtney Lee on Westbrook for the next few possessions before Westbrook was subbed out for Felton. Although Russ was taking a rest, the Thunder did keep both Carmelo Anthony and Paul George on the floor as the Knicks tied the game.

Ron Baker didn’t play a great game on opening night. He was a turnover machine like the rest of the team. It was downright awkward watching him handle the ball on several possessions. After drafting a young point guard in a draft of elite point guards, it is justifiable for Knicks fans to be frustrated that they didn’t get to see more of their shiny new toy in Ntilikina.

However, there is a reason why the Knicks played their best last night with Ron Baker on the floor (+4 in 23 minutes). Part of it, an easy explanation, he had Kristaps Porzingis by his side. But so did the starters. And if you’re going to point to the difference in match ups, consider this: Baker with Hardaway Jr., McDermott, O’Quinn, and Porzingis shot 53.3 percent (8-of-15), compared to the starting lineup of Sessions, Lee, Hardaway Jr., Kanter, and Porzingis, which shot only 38.1 percent (8-of-21).

The Knicks played better on defense with Baker on the floor (87.4 defensive rating), and some of that can be explained by the limited minutes against Russell Westbrook, but the Knicks were better offensively, too. Against several Thunder lineup iterations — we will learn during the season which ones are the best defensively — the Knicks were more efficient on offense with Baker on the floor than they were when he was on the bench.

Take a deep breath everyone. Again, this is not to say that Ron Baker is a superstar, or played like one last night. But give the guy a break. You might want to see Frank Ntilikia out there, we all do, but that doesn’t mean Baker played terribly last night, as I saw many commenting on social media.

My video breakdown focuses on Baker’s play in the first half, when the Knicks made a run to tie the game, and started a stretch where they played their best basketball of the night, mostly due to Kristaps Porzingis exceptional play. Baker played over 15 minutes in the second half, but the game was out of reach (72–51) by the time he checked-in late in the third quarter. While his play was consistent to the first half, I decided to focus on the portion of the game that mattered.
The video includes pretty much every play that Baker influenced, positively or negatively, during the first half run.

AUTOADVERT
knickknack
Posts: 20054
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/17/2014
Member: #5891

10/20/2017  12:55 PM
my only issue with ron baker is he's never done one thing that made me say "oh wow we really have something in this kid!" He isn't great a any one thing besides like pure scrappiness and hair growing. I don't understand the knicks investment of playing time and money in him. I thing at his very best he can be a delevadova sort of guard but that will take him getting his act together in the ball handling department. I concede all the above mentioned statistics but not if it means this guy stealing minutes from Nitty. If this guy is so good for us then play him instead of the even more useless Sessions.
trust the kristaps-cess!
NYKBocker
Posts: 35368
Alba Posts: 472
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
10/20/2017  1:05 PM
knickknack wrote:my only issue with ron baker is he's never done one thing that made me say "oh wow we really have something in this kid!" He isn't great a any one thing besides like pure scrappiness and hair growing. I don't understand the knicks investment of playing time and money in him. I thing at his very best he can be a delevadova sort of guard but that will take him getting his act together in the ball handling department. I concede all the above mentioned statistics but not if it means this guy stealing minutes from Nitty. If this guy is so good for us then play him instead of the even more useless Sessions.

I respectfully disagree. His defensive ability is top notch. He also puts players in the right position. Last night, KP tried to set a pick for him. Baker saw that KP was being guarded by Adams. He called for a play where KP got the ball in the perimeter putting Adams isolated where Adams backed up giving KP a free open look for a 3.

nixluva
Posts: 55243
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/20/2017  1:20 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
knickknack wrote:my only issue with ron baker is he's never done one thing that made me say "oh wow we really have something in this kid!" He isn't great a any one thing besides like pure scrappiness and hair growing. I don't understand the knicks investment of playing time and money in him. I thing at his very best he can be a delevadova sort of guard but that will take him getting his act together in the ball handling department. I concede all the above mentioned statistics but not if it means this guy stealing minutes from Nitty. If this guy is so good for us then play him instead of the even more useless Sessions.

I respectfully disagree. His defensive ability is top notch. He also puts players in the right position. Last night, KP tried to set a pick for him. Baker saw that KP was being guarded by Adams. He called for a play where KP got the ball in the perimeter putting Adams isolated where Adams backed up giving KP a free open look for a 3.

Yes! This is why the team always plays better when Baker is on the floor. He’s doing the RIGHT THINGS!

Baker needs time to get in rhythm and mid season form. He missed a lot of time in Preseason which people forget. He’s going to shoot better and not have 4 turnovers every game! Baker is a good role player for this team. Down the line Ntilikina, Dotson and Baker are gonna give this team some great defense and team play!!!

nixluva
Posts: 55243
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/20/2017  1:44 PM
One other thing! Baker only had 53 total games under his belt. FIFTY THREE!!! Can we let the kid play a full season and have a chance to develop???
Nalod
Posts: 54072
Alba Posts: 151
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
10/20/2017  1:48 PM
Good video breakdown.
Most of us are not that good at judging a game. WE like the shiny things that stand out.
Baker is a glue guy. People don't like glue.
Anger sells, don't buy!
nixluva
Posts: 55243
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/20/2017  1:50 PM
Nalod wrote:Good video breakdown.
Most of us are not that good at judging a game. WE like the shiny things that stand out.
Baker is a glue guy. People don't like glue.

The impatience drives me crazy. Kid switches to the toughest position to learn and has only 53 total NBA games under his belt. That’s NOTHING! They wanna trash him after just 53 DAMNED GAMES!!!

Nalod
Posts: 54072
Alba Posts: 151
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
10/20/2017  2:15 PM
Its not that Baker is "Misunderstood", its just that some are "Underinformed".
Anger sells, don't buy!
nixluva
Posts: 55243
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/20/2017  2:18 PM
Nalod wrote:Its not that Baker is "Misunderstood", its just that some are "Underinformed".

Yeah. That’s why I wanted to do this thread. The kid does more intangible things right that go unappreciated. Sure he had a shaky game but he only averaged 1.1 TO’s last year. Baker is a PLUS player despite not shooting well.

knicks1248
Posts: 36273
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
10/20/2017  2:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/20/2017  2:41 PM
Our roster is so deprived of a real pg, that he is going to have a bulls eye on his back for the critics. Also, that fact that he's not playing around any stars other than KP, or anyone much better than him at the position, makes for more criticism.

He's tony douglas with out a 3 point shot, and it's so imperative that all of your guards are a threat from downtown, or else he's pretty useless, especially when you have no other offensive skills to offset the fact the he sucks at shooting from the perimeter.

With rose we had a player who can get to the rim at will, but failed to shoot 3's and play decent defense, and we killed him for it. Baker would be solid around a lot of good players, unfortunately he's not, so the defense will zone in on his very shaky ball handling skills..

ES
nixluva
Posts: 55243
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/20/2017  2:55 PM
knicks1248 wrote:Our roster is so deprived of a real pg, that he is going to have a bulls eye on his back for the critics. Also, that fact that he's not playing around any stars other than KP, or anyone much better than him at the position, makes for more criticism.

He's tony douglas with out a 3 point shot, and it's so imperative that all of your guards are a threat from downtown, or else he's pretty useless, especially when you have no other offensive skills to offset the fact the he sucks at shooting from the perimeter.

With rose we had a player who can get to the rim at will, but failed to shoot 3's and play decent defense, and we killed him for it. Baker would be solid around a lot of good players, unfortunately he's not, so the defense will zone in on his very shaky ball handling skills..

This is unfortunately a biased view due to the most recent game. Baker averaged only 1.1 turnovers last year! One bad game that happened in a game one road game versus a Title Contender is unfair.

I think many fans and media are forgetting Baker has less than a season of games playing PG at the NBA level. 53 total games and only 13 starts. That’s NOTHING in terms of development time. Gotta give him a chance to settle in and get some chemistry with this group.

I think Baker was distracted with trying to get his teammates organized and got stripped. It happens.
As they play more the chemistry will improve and the execution will speed up and improve as well. These are early days for many of these kids. Remember only 53 games for Baker!!!

Swishfm3
Posts: 22589
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/28/2003
Member: #392
10/20/2017  3:04 PM
nixluva wrote:One other thing! Baker only had 53 total games under his belt. FIFTY THREE!!! Can we let the kid play a full season and have a chance to develop???

It only took J.Lin 6 games though

NYKBocker
Posts: 35368
Alba Posts: 472
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
10/20/2017  3:18 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:
nixluva wrote:One other thing! Baker only had 53 total games under his belt. FIFTY THREE!!! Can we let the kid play a full season and have a chance to develop???

It only took J.Lin 6 games though

2 totally different skillset. Lin was great in the offensive side of the game. Baker is the opposite.

knicks1248
Posts: 36273
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
10/20/2017  3:42 PM
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Our roster is so deprived of a real pg, that he is going to have a bulls eye on his back for the critics. Also, that fact that he's not playing around any stars other than KP, or anyone much better than him at the position, makes for more criticism.

He's tony douglas with out a 3 point shot, and it's so imperative that all of your guards are a threat from downtown, or else he's pretty useless, especially when you have no other offensive skills to offset the fact the he sucks at shooting from the perimeter.

With rose we had a player who can get to the rim at will, but failed to shoot 3's and play decent defense, and we killed him for it. Baker would be solid around a lot of good players, unfortunately he's not, so the defense will zone in on his very shaky ball handling skills..

This is unfortunately a biased view due to the most recent game. Baker averaged only 1.1 turnovers last year! One bad game that happened in a game one road game versus a Title Contender is unfair.

I think many fans and media are forgetting Baker has less than a season of games playing PG at the NBA level. 53 total games and only 13 starts. That’s NOTHING in terms of development time. Gotta give him a chance to settle in and get some chemistry with this group.

I think Baker was distracted with trying to get his teammates organized and got stripped. It happens.
As they play more the chemistry will improve and the execution will speed up and improve as well. These are early days for many of these kids. Remember only 53 games for Baker!!!

yeah but he's paid like he played a 153 games, and if you can get on a player like melo who made 25 million but played like he made 10, then Baker is going to hear it.

our rotation yesterday consisted of players he played with last season, so don't over kill with the build chemistry non sense. Yes he's been hurt and hasn't played much this training camp, but his ceiling is not high my friend, he is not starter or 6th man material by far.

There is one thing I really learned form PHIL, a while ago when shumpert was on the team, someone asked him about shumperts struggles from the perimeter, and he stated shumpert never shot the ball the same, every time he took a jumper, it was a little different from the previous shot, which made him a very inconsistent shooter.

That's what I see with Baker, like there's no way he was in the gym taking 1000 shots a day(thj was), and still comeback shooting exactly the same.

ES
anrst
Posts: 22333
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/7/2005
Member: #1054
USA
10/20/2017  4:01 PM
im just gonna admit that if ron baker was black i would think he's better.

so...im trying to overcome this bias.

nixluva
Posts: 55243
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/20/2017  4:02 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Our roster is so deprived of a real pg, that he is going to have a bulls eye on his back for the critics. Also, that fact that he's not playing around any stars other than KP, or anyone much better than him at the position, makes for more criticism.

He's tony douglas with out a 3 point shot, and it's so imperative that all of your guards are a threat from downtown, or else he's pretty useless, especially when you have no other offensive skills to offset the fact the he sucks at shooting from the perimeter.

With rose we had a player who can get to the rim at will, but failed to shoot 3's and play decent defense, and we killed him for it. Baker would be solid around a lot of good players, unfortunately he's not, so the defense will zone in on his very shaky ball handling skills..

This is unfortunately a biased view due to the most recent game. Baker averaged only 1.1 turnovers last year! One bad game that happened in a game one road game versus a Title Contender is unfair.

I think many fans and media are forgetting Baker has less than a season of games playing PG at the NBA level. 53 total games and only 13 starts. That’s NOTHING in terms of development time. Gotta give him a chance to settle in and get some chemistry with this group.

I think Baker was distracted with trying to get his teammates organized and got stripped. It happens.
As they play more the chemistry will improve and the execution will speed up and improve as well. These are early days for many of these kids. Remember only 53 games for Baker!!!

yeah but he's paid like he played a 153 games, and if you can get on a player like melo who made 25 million but played like he made 10, then Baker is going to hear it.

our rotation yesterday consisted of players he played with last season, so don't over kill with the build chemistry non sense. Yes he's been hurt and hasn't played much this training camp, but his ceiling is not high my friend, he is not starter or 6th man material by far.

There is one thing I really learned form PHIL, a while ago when shumpert was on the team, someone asked him about shumperts struggles from the perimeter, and he stated shumpert never shot the ball the same, every time he took a jumper, it was a little different from the previous shot, which made him a very inconsistent shooter.

That's what I see with Baker, like there's no way he was in the gym taking 1000 shots a day(thj was), and still comeback shooting exactly the same.

Baker gives MAX EFFORT and he’s a PLUS player even with his subpar shooting. The team plays BETTER when Baker is on the floor. It makes all kinds of sense to invest in developing a kid who does all the intangible things that lead to winning. Gotta give it more than 53 games of development.

Comparing Melo and Baker is silly. Baker was undrafted and has to claw and fight for minutes. Baker isn’t here because of a high ceiling. He’s here cuz he is a good team defender and he sets the team up and runs the team well for a non PG.

You can’t put so much weight on just 52 games last year as a ROOKIE and ONE GAME this season. I mean if you can’t see how unreasonable that is I can’t help you. There are so many players who took time to find their game and you want to bash Baker at the very start of his journey. 53 games in.

knicks1248
Posts: 36273
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
10/20/2017  4:14 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/20/2017  4:15 PM
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Our roster is so deprived of a real pg, that he is going to have a bulls eye on his back for the critics. Also, that fact that he's not playing around any stars other than KP, or anyone much better than him at the position, makes for more criticism.

He's tony douglas with out a 3 point shot, and it's so imperative that all of your guards are a threat from downtown, or else he's pretty useless, especially when you have no other offensive skills to offset the fact the he sucks at shooting from the perimeter.

With rose we had a player who can get to the rim at will, but failed to shoot 3's and play decent defense, and we killed him for it. Baker would be solid around a lot of good players, unfortunately he's not, so the defense will zone in on his very shaky ball handling skills..

This is unfortunately a biased view due to the most recent game. Baker averaged only 1.1 turnovers last year! One bad game that happened in a game one road game versus a Title Contender is unfair.

I think many fans and media are forgetting Baker has less than a season of games playing PG at the NBA level. 53 total games and only 13 starts. That’s NOTHING in terms of development time. Gotta give him a chance to settle in and get some chemistry with this group.

I think Baker was distracted with trying to get his teammates organized and got stripped. It happens.
As they play more the chemistry will improve and the execution will speed up and improve as well. These are early days for many of these kids. Remember only 53 games for Baker!!!

yeah but he's paid like he played a 153 games, and if you can get on a player like melo who made 25 million but played like he made 10, then Baker is going to hear it.

our rotation yesterday consisted of players he played with last season, so don't over kill with the build chemistry non sense. Yes he's been hurt and hasn't played much this training camp, but his ceiling is not high my friend, he is not starter or 6th man material by far.

There is one thing I really learned form PHIL, a while ago when shumpert was on the team, someone asked him about shumperts struggles from the perimeter, and he stated shumpert never shot the ball the same, every time he took a jumper, it was a little different from the previous shot, which made him a very inconsistent shooter.

That's what I see with Baker, like there's no way he was in the gym taking 1000 shots a day(thj was), and still comeback shooting exactly the same.

Baker gives MAX EFFORT and he’s a PLUS player even with his subpar shooting. The team plays BETTER when Baker is on the floor. It makes all kinds of sense to invest in developing a kid who does all the intangible things that lead to winning. Gotta give it more than 53 games of development.

Comparing Melo and Baker is silly. Baker was undrafted and has to claw and fight for minutes. Baker isn’t here because of a high ceiling. He’s here cuz he is a good team defender and he sets the team up and runs the team well for a non PG.

You can’t put so much weight on just 52 games last year as a ROOKIE and ONE GAME this season. I mean if you can’t see how unreasonable that is I can’t help you. There are so many players who took time to find their game and you want to bash Baker at the very start of his journey. 53 games in.

If that's max effort and we still get blown out, that's clear evidence that he's been giving a role not suitable to help the team in where it's lacking tremendously..PG.

don't tell anyone not to put too much stock in the 52 games he play (really 25 quality games)last season when that contract he signed was clearly based on the 52 games he played last season

ES
nixluva
Posts: 55243
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/20/2017  4:46 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Our roster is so deprived of a real pg, that he is going to have a bulls eye on his back for the critics. Also, that fact that he's not playing around any stars other than KP, or anyone much better than him at the position, makes for more criticism.

He's tony douglas with out a 3 point shot, and it's so imperative that all of your guards are a threat from downtown, or else he's pretty useless, especially when you have no other offensive skills to offset the fact the he sucks at shooting from the perimeter.

With rose we had a player who can get to the rim at will, but failed to shoot 3's and play decent defense, and we killed him for it. Baker would be solid around a lot of good players, unfortunately he's not, so the defense will zone in on his very shaky ball handling skills..

This is unfortunately a biased view due to the most recent game. Baker averaged only 1.1 turnovers last year! One bad game that happened in a game one road game versus a Title Contender is unfair.

I think many fans and media are forgetting Baker has less than a season of games playing PG at the NBA level. 53 total games and only 13 starts. That’s NOTHING in terms of development time. Gotta give him a chance to settle in and get some chemistry with this group.

I think Baker was distracted with trying to get his teammates organized and got stripped. It happens.
As they play more the chemistry will improve and the execution will speed up and improve as well. These are early days for many of these kids. Remember only 53 games for Baker!!!

yeah but he's paid like he played a 153 games, and if you can get on a player like melo who made 25 million but played like he made 10, then Baker is going to hear it.

our rotation yesterday consisted of players he played with last season, so don't over kill with the build chemistry non sense. Yes he's been hurt and hasn't played much this training camp, but his ceiling is not high my friend, he is not starter or 6th man material by far.

There is one thing I really learned form PHIL, a while ago when shumpert was on the team, someone asked him about shumperts struggles from the perimeter, and he stated shumpert never shot the ball the same, every time he took a jumper, it was a little different from the previous shot, which made him a very inconsistent shooter.

That's what I see with Baker, like there's no way he was in the gym taking 1000 shots a day(thj was), and still comeback shooting exactly the same.

Baker gives MAX EFFORT and he’s a PLUS player even with his subpar shooting. The team plays BETTER when Baker is on the floor. It makes all kinds of sense to invest in developing a kid who does all the intangible things that lead to winning. Gotta give it more than 53 games of development.

Comparing Melo and Baker is silly. Baker was undrafted and has to claw and fight for minutes. Baker isn’t here because of a high ceiling. He’s here cuz he is a good team defender and he sets the team up and runs the team well for a non PG.

You can’t put so much weight on just 52 games last year as a ROOKIE and ONE GAME this season. I mean if you can’t see how unreasonable that is I can’t help you. There are so many players who took time to find their game and you want to bash Baker at the very start of his journey. 53 games in.

If that's max effort and we still get blown out, that's clear evidence that he's been giving a role not suitable to help the team in where it's lacking tremendously..PG.

don't tell anyone not to put too much stock in the 52 games he play (really 25 quality games)last season when that contract he signed was clearly based on the 52 games he played last season

What are you using as your evidence that Baker’s role isn’t suitable to help the team??? Literally just posted Baker’s impact on the game and you follow that up with unsubstantiated nonsense!!!

I suggest you go back through this thread and Re-read that stats I posted and then come back and explain your take. The team played better with Baker at PG!!!

Welpee
Posts: 21615
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

10/20/2017  4:52 PM
This man crush some have for Ron Baker is fascinating!
fishmike
Posts: 47695
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
10/20/2017  4:56 PM
Honestly Baker has a very clear reason for being here. His minutes are there to lose. Thats the point. Coaches want one of the more talented guys to win those minutes. Baker sets a great example for hustle, hard work and defense. Thats a positive thing for guys like Dotson and Frank or another young PG trying to break the rotation to try and match.

I am not bullish on Baker at all. I think he's a nice hard working stop gap player. Easy to coach. Plenty of reasons to give a guy like Baker a contract and a shot to get better. If he doesnt its short term and you have a hard working guy while he's here.

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
Baker Misunderstood

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.