Folks knocking Baker will be wrong long term -- the kid is special (tough) -- the only thing really holding him back is his confidence. He is so set on making the right play (being unselfish) that he is NOT acting as a threat with the ball in his hands (when pressured on the perimeter) he needs to use his size to get into the lane and look to score the ball.

I don't buy (AT ALL) that this kid can't shoot -- he just needs to believe in himself -- the stroke is pure....believe Ron.

Baker = least of Knicks problems.

nixluva wrote:This sums up what most don’t see about Baker!!!

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/maxwellogden/status/921256362671267841

huh interesting

You want to look at PG play...fine, but you need a consistent system with consistent go to plays for a PG to become comfortable.

Not enough MOVEMENT WITH A PURPOSE without the ball...think Ray Allen, Redick, or Korver. KP is a better passer than some of you think, but if guys don't move without the ball to get open there are going to be no open looks. BB 101.

Did not like our spacing on the offensive end, either. Spacing and predictability leads to turnovers. We still have those idiotic turnovers, which go back to feeding Melo, where we literally look like we are dumping the ball to a guy in the post, except he's 20-25 feet from the basket. Hate that shyte.

KP should not be dribbling with the ball for more than a few seconds unless a clock is winding down and he's in decent position.

Still feel Willy should've gotten more time on the floor. Better passer and equal to or better as a defender than Kantor, better in the post and rebounding than KOQ, and I think he's a better all-around rebounder than Kanter, too. He is also good on the pick and roll. Seems that everything he did last year is forgotten for some reason.

Bake does many things good, but I'm still puzzled by his shooting woes. I think much of the trouble with him as a distributor yesterday goes back to my first point, and the fact that our spacing sucks.

Lee and THJ need to get the ball when they are ready to shoot. Where were the picks to set them free, or plays designed for them?

Have a feeling that I will be saying this to a number of idiots...yeah, you know who you are... to be judging Frank at this point simply shows you have no concept of the game...and more importantly, no idea about how player develops.

Listen carefully, idiots... before yesterday, Frank had played for what...15 minutes!.. in SL and pre-season games, and had not been involved in a number of scrimmages in practice, but some are already calling him a bust. Maybe Martin can create an idiot thread for the children on UK who need a place to vent when they have no idea what they are talking about.

Let's go back to the KP draft and look at reactions to him...he was the reach of the century- a tall white kid who played on the perimeter...and Grant was considered the solid pick. Have the feelings on this changed at all?

Stanley Johnson is gonna be great.
God the Knicks completely blew this draft.
Stein, Mudiay, Johnson, Winslow, all better options than KP (really???)

No one is trading Justice Winslow for Porzingis, man. (true...but not in the way this guy figured it)

***** wrote:
can we somehow trade for cameron payne?

Rather get Grant.

Payne is a great player. He will be very good. (From someone critical of Ntilikina)

***** wrote:
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA · 22s22 seconds ago
The Knicks are trading Tim Hardaway to the Hawks, who will draft Jerian Grant for the Knicks, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

Yes. Go Phil

YESSSSSSS!!! YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES................(From same poster who loved Payne)

Fantastic news about Jerian Grant. Would rather be celebrating Winslow and Grant or Stein and Grant, but this is a good move regardless

No guarantee that Frank will be a great player in the long run, but this is true of anyone in a draft. Look at the sure shots from the KP draft and how they have fared. Guys need to chill out and wait Ntilikina to play significant minutes to be able to make even a preliminary assessment of him, and given his age and the fact that physically, he is still behind many U.S. players in terms of strength.

He will be fine...guys just have to wait...and for people to condemn the pick after limited practice games, and only about 25 actual minutes against other teams, is truly foolish.

SupremeCommander wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Gudris wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker

Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.

to you its about the money. DOn't worry, Baker not taking any from your rabbit ears!

that's ridiculous - n one gives a **** about Baker's bank account. What people care about is he was signed for a lot of money out of the gate. what, you'd rather give money to the Baker benevolence fund rather than have a starting caliber PG?

Question: What starting caliber PG free agent could we have signed for $4.3M per year for 2 years?

great question - the guy I wanted was Milos Teodosic. He got $12.3 million over two years. I would have rather had Milos and Holliday than Baker and THJ.

that said, this is very clearly a tank job... just frustrating because outside of the Yankees, all my teams STINK. I guess it's better late than never in trying to get as many ping pong balls as possible while the old rules are still in effect

I love Teodosic! Was he a free agent pick up?

yeah, the Clips signed him to deal with the loss of Paul... I know he's an older guy, but he's also an international star and I think he would've played the part of mentor to our young guys well

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/6/15930292/nba-free-agency-2017-clippers-sign-milos-teodosic-euroleague-cska-moscow

Also a different situation than NYK. LA weather and throwing lobs to the Clips' big men, vs. NY with Porzingis in a rebuild, with his replacement already on the roster.
I'm a fan of his as well, just not convinced that we were the right fit for him (and vice versa if we would have had to significantly outbid LA).

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/921382458968494081

SupremeCommander wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Gudris wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker

Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.

to you its about the money. DOn't worry, Baker not taking any from your rabbit ears!

that's ridiculous - n one gives a **** about Baker's bank account. What people care about is he was signed for a lot of money out of the gate. what, you'd rather give money to the Baker benevolence fund rather than have a starting caliber PG?

Question: What starting caliber PG free agent could we have signed for $4.3M per year for 2 years?

great question - the guy I wanted was Milos Teodosic. He got $12.3 million over two years. I would have rather had Milos and Holliday than Baker and THJ.

that said, this is very clearly a tank job... just frustrating because outside of the Yankees, all my teams STINK. I guess it's better late than never in trying to get as many ping pong balls as possible while the old rules are still in effect

I love Teodosic! Was he a free agent pick up?

yeah, the Clips signed him to deal with the loss of Paul... I know he's an older guy, but he's also an international star and I think he would've played the part of mentor to our young guys well

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/6/15930292/nba-free-agency-2017-clippers-sign-milos-teodosic-euroleague-cska-moscow

Also a different situation than NYK. LA weather and throwing lobs to the Clips' big men, vs. NY with Porzingis in a rebuild, with his replacement already on the roster.
I'm a fan of his as well, just not convinced that we were the right fit for him (and vice versa if we would have had to significantly outbid LA).

lets say we did have to overpay him. I'd rather overpay the guy who has produced than outbid ourselves for Ron friggin Baker. Either way we overpay... Milos / Frank is way more appealing to me than Sessions / Jack (will he ever play) / Baker / Frank

Say you are Milos....Would you sign with the Knicks or with the Clips? A rebuilding team or a ready made team missing a position that you play?

SupremeCommander wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Gudris wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker

Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.

to you its about the money. DOn't worry, Baker not taking any from your rabbit ears!

that's ridiculous - n one gives a **** about Baker's bank account. What people care about is he was signed for a lot of money out of the gate. what, you'd rather give money to the Baker benevolence fund rather than have a starting caliber PG?

Question: What starting caliber PG free agent could we have signed for $4.3M per year for 2 years?

great question - the guy I wanted was Milos Teodosic. He got $12.3 million over two years. I would have rather had Milos and Holliday than Baker and THJ.

that said, this is very clearly a tank job... just frustrating because outside of the Yankees, all my teams STINK. I guess it's better late than never in trying to get as many ping pong balls as possible while the old rules are still in effect

I love Teodosic! Was he a free agent pick up?

yeah, the Clips signed him to deal with the loss of Paul... I know he's an older guy, but he's also an international star and I think he would've played the part of mentor to our young guys well

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/6/15930292/nba-free-agency-2017-clippers-sign-milos-teodosic-euroleague-cska-moscow

Also a different situation than NYK. LA weather and throwing lobs to the Clips' big men, vs. NY with Porzingis in a rebuild, with his replacement already on the roster.
I'm a fan of his as well, just not convinced that we were the right fit for him (and vice versa if we would have had to significantly outbid LA).

lets say we did have to overpay him. I'd rather overpay the guy who has produced than outbid ourselves for Ron friggin Baker. Either way we overpay... Milos / Frank is way more appealing to me than Sessions / Jack (will he ever play) / Baker / Frank

If we're just comparing Baker & Co to Teodosic, ya, he's going to win out 10 times out of 10. I'm with you on that.

I just don't see a scenario where NY is the better fit for him. I'm also not sure how many years I'd be willing to give a 30 year old PG on a rebuilding roster, again especially with Frank waiting for his chance. I said at the time I wouldn't have made THJ the offer we gave him, but I can definitely understand why the FO would opt to put money into the 25 year old SG instead getting into a bidding war for Milos (if we're only going to consider the 2 options). Things happen quick in free agency.

MaTT4281 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Gudris wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker

Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.

to you its about the money. DOn't worry, Baker not taking any from your rabbit ears!

that's ridiculous - n one gives a **** about Baker's bank account. What people care about is he was signed for a lot of money out of the gate. what, you'd rather give money to the Baker benevolence fund rather than have a starting caliber PG?

Question: What starting caliber PG free agent could we have signed for $4.3M per year for 2 years?

great question - the guy I wanted was Milos Teodosic. He got $12.3 million over two years. I would have rather had Milos and Holliday than Baker and THJ.

that said, this is very clearly a tank job... just frustrating because outside of the Yankees, all my teams STINK. I guess it's better late than never in trying to get as many ping pong balls as possible while the old rules are still in effect

I love Teodosic! Was he a free agent pick up?

yeah, the Clips signed him to deal with the loss of Paul... I know he's an older guy, but he's also an international star and I think he would've played the part of mentor to our young guys well

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/6/15930292/nba-free-agency-2017-clippers-sign-milos-teodosic-euroleague-cska-moscow

Also a different situation than NYK. LA weather and throwing lobs to the Clips' big men, vs. NY with Porzingis in a rebuild, with his replacement already on the roster.
I'm a fan of his as well, just not convinced that we were the right fit for him (and vice versa if we would have had to significantly outbid LA).

lets say we did have to overpay him. I'd rather overpay the guy who has produced than outbid ourselves for Ron friggin Baker. Either way we overpay... Milos / Frank is way more appealing to me than Sessions / Jack (will he ever play) / Baker / Frank

If we're just comparing Baker & Co to Teodosic, ya, he's going to win out 10 times out of 10. I'm with you on that.

I just don't see a scenario where NY is the better fit for him. I'm also not sure how many years I'd be willing to give a 30 year old PG on a rebuilding roster, again especially with Frank waiting for his chance. I said at the time I wouldn't have made THJ the offer we gave him, but I can definitely understand why the FO would opt to put money into the 25 year old SG instead getting into a bidding war for Milos (if we're only going to consider the 2 options). Things happen quick in free agency.

oh definitely... I have no idea if he'd be interested or not. Bocker just asked if there was as tarting calibur player that signed for a similar figure to Baker's. So I used Teodosic because he's a baller who is getting just a little bit more than Baker

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Gudris wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker

Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.

Baker did that better than any other PG last season, as a rookie. Had a long layoff from an ankle injury this summer. First game back, Baker goes up against the fastest player in the league.

Baker should be a backup on a team with a quality starting PG. We dont have that right now. You're right that he has to get to the rim more, and take more jumpers. Its what separates Baker from being starter quality.

like I said he's in the wrong role, and he wasn't guarding westbrook all that much, he was guarding felton..

we scored 84 points in 2017 nba game...what a joke

IMO your read on Baker is just too harsh. First off it’s game one and he barely had any prep. Then he’s rusty on top of trying to run a team which is still new to him. This isn’t about Baker being perfect RIGHT NOW! They’re looking to develop him and in truth he STILL had a positive impact on the team despite his turnovers and missing shots!!!

He needs more than one road game to get his game in gear and to develop chemistry with his teammates.
Let’s see how he progresses this season.

The thing is, I don't expect much more from baker, he should be way down on the depth chart, like 3rd or 4th at his position.

It's you guys that are pumping him up like his the next ron artest or bruce bowen. Dribbling a basket has nothing to do with rust, penetrating has nothing to do with rust. HE lacks the basic fundamentals of running the point, and that's because that's not his game, and that's not developing a player.

Forcing a player to do something he's not comfortable doing, cmon man......I just posted the article about pop forcing Aldridge to do what he's not comfortable doing was bad for him, and the team.

That why we suck at the whole developing players thing

Moat of us here know that Baker is a stop gap. What some of us disagree with is you calling the season on him after one game. Baker did a great job of moving the ball last season, regardless of his stats. You just had to watch the game. I know he has a long way to go when it comes to scoring, but short changing his ability to get players on the same page, after showing it for almost all of last season is difficult to understand.

Baker might be overpaid, but you seem to be holding him to a standard far above his current pay.