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Day after game 10/19 vs OKC: thoughts?
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anrst
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10/20/2017  10:33 AM
i don't like Kanter on the floor with KP. Too much Kanter last night.

OQuinn should be DNP, and let Hernangomez loose.

Sessions is bad.

Can't wait for Frank to get real run.

Is there a more boring player than Courtney Lee?

AUTOADVERT
newyorker4ever
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10/20/2017  10:46 AM
I feel like there isn't much common sense being used by most in this thread. It was our first game of the season with a pretty much brand new team of players that have never played with each other before and we played a OKC team in their house and they wanted to make a statement in not only their 1st game of the year but i'm sure they're gonna be playing all out every game. I'm not quite sure what you guys were expecting going into this game but it pretty much played out the way i was expecting it to.

About Frank, Billy and Dotson not getting much playing time, we can't play every big we have and Jeff said that KOQ and Kanter earned their minutes over Billy in preseason and in training camp so if he wants to get more playing time then he needs to earn it or he's gonna have to wait until the Knicks trade one or two of our big men. Kanter is the best center we have right now so Billy needs to outplay KOQ to get minutes cause he isn't gonna take Kanter's minutes. Frank didn't play in the SL and barely played in the preseason and has been dealing with that hurt knee issue so i have no problem with Jeff slowly getting him more involved. It's a long season and Frank will be getting plenty of minutes as the season goes on. Dotson is my favorite player on the team after KP but he's a 2nd round pick who is gonna have to earn minutes and i think out of the 3 of them it's gonna be hardest for him to get minutes. He's gonna really have to show out when he is on the court to start getting in games in the 1st half but i'm really rooting for this kid and think he'll eventually earn those minutes. There's gonna be players on this team that we think should play that won't be getting much time cause Jeff can't play everyone but i have no worries with Frank or Billy getting plenty of minutes in the near future.

knicks1248
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10/20/2017  10:49 AM
Gudris wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker


Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.

ES
franco12
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10/20/2017  10:56 AM
I might have been a bit optimistic with my 28 win prediction.

I liked we didn't start the game with a 10 or 20 pt deficit like we usually have.

Dennis Smith Jr who is also 19 years old got 16 points and 10 assists. I'm worried we made a major effing mistake not taking him.

Is Ron Baker in this league after his current deal expires?

Are they looking to promote Kanter & KOQ's value? Only reasonable explanation for them starting/getting in over Willy.

Uptown
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10/20/2017  10:56 AM
Baker being the best pg we have at thie point aint saying much since our pg play was dreadful...OKC was forcing our offense to start just a step beyond the half court line. Our decision making is horrible; its almost like we weren't seeing the defense and were trying to force passes through defenders..

THJ should not be plying SF....Lee and THJ together for extended periods creates too many mismatches for the opposition being that they are too small...it also hurts out offense because we will rely on Lee and THJ to score and if one of them is guarded by bigger, more athletic SF's they will sturggle to score as neither one of them is an off-the-dribble player...

The only reason I can see KOQ playing over Willy is because they are showcasing him....but even still, how do you go from All Rookie First team, to no Playing time on a team thats rebuilding?

jrodmc
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10/20/2017  11:00 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Gudris wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker


Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.


+1 on Baker.
Love his defensive energy. But a PG who can't dribble, makes decisions three hours late, and can't shoot?

I love when people post about "all this guy needs to do is develop a shot, and he'll be there."
Like the NBA is where you go without a jumpshot or any ability to shoot an NBA three, pick up 9 million dollars or so, and then learn to shoot.

3rd guard off the bench. At best. And that speaks volumes with this backcourt. He's a poor man's John Crotty. Our BandAid.

You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
GustavBahler
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10/20/2017  11:05 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Gudris wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker


Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.

Baker did that better than any other PG last season, as a rookie. Had a long layoff from an ankle injury this summer. First game back, Baker goes up against the fastest player in the league.

Baker should be a backup on a team with a quality starting PG. We dont have that right now. You're right that he has to get to the rim more, and take more jumpers. Its what separates Baker from being starter quality.

Nalod
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10/20/2017  11:10 AM
Nalod fell asleep on new lounge chair in living room. Old chair I'd wake up at 11 and go to bed. My Belgian Malinois is unsettled unless we are in the bedroom together. He's got a job to do. I woke up at 3am. Damn comfortable seat.
I saw about half way thru 3rd quarter. I saw some good sets and good looks that didn't fall thru the net. Saw some awful turnovers with passes that looked just a bit late.
That tells me team is still working on ball movement than iso. THats ok.
Baker got hounded by Felton. Dude was on him hard beyond the parameter. That was good defense by RayRay. Baker is not worthless, he had a bad game, got out played and needs to adjust. If not, then he is worthless. Knicks future is frank, so lets not pretend Baker is, or will get burned every night.
Kanter needs to pass out. Obviously, and TV guys said that Kanters moves were predicted by the guy who guarded him in practice for the last two years. I liked a lot of what he did.
Frank just needed to get the "Yips" out (Nerves) and thats all. Play a few minutes, don't get hurt. Is that only his second game? Dude had to guard Westbrook. I think it was reggie that said Westbrook is like a smaller Lebron. Dude clearly battered TimJr on a layup and got the and one!!! Timmy got a beatdown!!!!
Frank played his second game against the reigning MVP. No need to play him any more.

I liked that KP was more inside, had success, and less 3pt attempts. Shot 50% and got to the line. Kanter can't get to the line?
One game is not a season nor any real impressions. Take a few sets and break it down which is what they are looking at today. Some good, some bad.
Loved KP's block on Melo and KOQ foul on him. Melo was anxious in the first half. First quarter was fun.

Make adjustments, cut players, worthless?....etc....It was one game. Short preseason, young team, developing Alpha, 19 year old rookie just breaking in, and Willy stuck on the bench for the moment.

I hope KOQ does get traded making room for Willy. Noah if he can play will bring more defensive intensity to the floor and rim protection which will help KP.
Truth be told if we are "Tank-O-licious" I'd just assume trade Kanter if Noah is untradable. But I want a first round pick for him. Don't have to be this year, but he has value and is a good player. Trade good players for good value.

Frank will play and learn when he is physically up to it and in shape.

Anger sells, don't buy!
Nalod
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10/20/2017  11:11 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Gudris wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker


Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.

to you its about the money. DOn't worry, Baker not taking any from your rabbit ears!

Anger sells, don't buy!
NYKBocker
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10/20/2017  11:16 AM
EnySpree wrote:Our point guards were terrible. Sessions was a disappointment directing the ball. He was making the wrong pass all night. He was a step slow too. Baker was terrible. For every strong defensive play he made, he turned the ball over. His ball handling was erratic. He had no control. Plus he couldn't score. Frank just looked nervous. He had the deer in the headlights. He was aiming his shot and playing with tunnel vision. Chalk all this up to nerves but it was embarrassing non the less.

We got nothing from Thomas and McDermott. They were useless out there. Shame Beasley was the 3rd forward off the bench then got injured. I had the feeling he was going to light it up. He hit his first shot that he got injured on. Beasley needs to get healthy. His offense is going to be needed.

I thought Lee played well. He's just not a scorer. He has the game but not the mentality to call his own number.

THJr let's chalk this up to nerves as well. He didn't play bad but got locked up pretty good by Roberson.

Kanter let OKC familiarity with him take him out of his game. He got frustrated and was talking to the refs.

KOQ had a nice game as well. He was doing his job inside.

KP has evolved. Still not polished but he's getting there. He played like he was the man.

I thought Hornacek was overwhelmed. I didn't like his early substitutions. He started scrambling and it worked. Okc made adjustments and Horny wasn't prepared. The offense became non existent. It wasn't even what OKC was doing defensively. The Knicks just had bo direction or leader on the court or the bench.

I agree with most of your take. I think you are a little hard on Baker though. I think he just needs to tighten up his dribble and work on his shot. His defensive presence is just off the charts for me.

Thomas and McDermott really were useless. I was really disappointed with McDermott. I thought he would have done a better job getting open. I guess you can blame that on PG play.

CLee played really well but I don't think you can start both him and THJr together. They are just too small to play the 3 spot.

Hornacek as outcoached. He had a good gameplan in the 1st half but once Donovan made his adjustments he was done.

nixluva
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10/20/2017  11:18 AM
AGAIN! BAKER PLUS FOUR in a blowout and he was rusty. Baker is better in PnR and Drag Screen situations. Baker and Willy have GREAT chemistry. Need to see them together more going forward. IMO Baker will settle in and be a very good role player for this team.
SupremeCommander
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10/20/2017  11:19 AM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Gudris wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker


Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.

to you its about the money. DOn't worry, Baker not taking any from your rabbit ears!

that's ridiculous - n one gives a **** about Baker's bank account. What people care about is he was signed for a lot of money out of the gate. what, you'd rather give money to the Baker benevolence fund rather than have a starting caliber PG?

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
NYKBocker
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10/20/2017  11:30 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Gudris wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker


Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.

to you its about the money. DOn't worry, Baker not taking any from your rabbit ears!

that's ridiculous - n one gives a **** about Baker's bank account. What people care about is he was signed for a lot of money out of the gate. what, you'd rather give money to the Baker benevolence fund rather than have a starting caliber PG?

Question: What starting caliber PG free agent could we have signed for $4.3M per year for 2 years?

nixluva
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10/20/2017  11:37 AM
This sums up what most don’t see about Baker!!!

knicks1248
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10/20/2017  11:46 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Gudris wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker


Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.

Baker did that better than any other PG last season, as a rookie. Had a long layoff from an ankle injury this summer. First game back, Baker goes up against the fastest player in the league.

Baker should be a backup on a team with a quality starting PG. We dont have that right now. You're right that he has to get to the rim more, and take more jumpers. Its what separates Baker from being starter quality.

like I said he's in the wrong role, and he wasn't guarding westbrook all that much, he was guarding felton..

we scored 84 points in 2017 nba game...what a joke

ES
GoNyGoNyGo
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10/20/2017  11:52 AM
KP looks good. Needs to handle the double teams better and post up is still an issue.


Sessions was awful As a VET he is supposed to help get the team in their offense. I would just go with Frank. He needs to learn and the best way is to play.

Baker is a fine backup for now. He is a winning player. Does the things that need to be done.

Timmy had PG to deal with. A bit much. He is a 2 not a 3. I blame coach on that one.

LT is awful and his D is not so great either. HE should not play ever. Second coming of Jared Jefferies with less D.

Kanter will be better, Willy MUST play. KOQ is fine but still makes dumb plays.


They need time to grow as a team but it should be the young guys playing more and the vets guiding them. Not Vets playing and the young guys fighting for minutes

Yet another mistake by Dolan. When will it end?
nixluva
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10/20/2017  12:01 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Gudris wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker


Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.

Baker did that better than any other PG last season, as a rookie. Had a long layoff from an ankle injury this summer. First game back, Baker goes up against the fastest player in the league.

Baker should be a backup on a team with a quality starting PG. We dont have that right now. You're right that he has to get to the rim more, and take more jumpers. Its what separates Baker from being starter quality.

like I said he's in the wrong role, and he wasn't guarding westbrook all that much, he was guarding felton..

we scored 84 points in 2017 nba game...what a joke

IMO your read on Baker is just too harsh. First off it’s game one and he barely had any prep. Then he’s rusty on top of trying to run a team which is still new to him. This isn’t about Baker being perfect RIGHT NOW! They’re looking to develop him and in truth he STILL had a positive impact on the team despite his turnovers and missing shots!!!

He needs more than one road game to get his game in gear and to develop chemistry with his teammates.
Let’s see how he progresses this season.

knicks1248
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10/20/2017  12:02 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:KP looks good. Needs to handle the double teams better and post up is still an issue.


Sessions was awful As a VET he is supposed to help get the team in their offense. I would just go with Frank. He needs to learn and the best way is to play.

Baker is a fine backup for now. He is a winning player. Does the things that need to be done.

Timmy had PG to deal with. A bit much. He is a 2 not a 3. I blame coach on that one.

LT is awful and his D is not so great either. HE should not play ever. Second coming of Jared Jefferies with less D.

Kanter will be better, Willy MUST play. KOQ is fine but still makes dumb plays.


They need time to grow as a team but it should be the young guys playing more and the vets guiding them. Not Vets playing and the young guys fighting for minutes


like 75% of the team was here last season along with the lame coaching staff, that really doesn't have a clue..
ES
SupremeCommander
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10/20/2017  12:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/20/2017  12:07 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Gudris wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker


Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.

to you its about the money. DOn't worry, Baker not taking any from your rabbit ears!

that's ridiculous - n one gives a **** about Baker's bank account. What people care about is he was signed for a lot of money out of the gate. what, you'd rather give money to the Baker benevolence fund rather than have a starting caliber PG?

Question: What starting caliber PG free agent could we have signed for $4.3M per year for 2 years?

great question - the guy I wanted was Milos Teodosic. He got $12.3 million over two years. I would have rather had Milos and Holliday than Baker and THJ.

that said, this is very clearly a tank job... just frustrating because outside of the Yankees, all my teams STINK. I guess it's better late than never in trying to get as many ping pong balls as possible while the old rules are still in effect

fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
knicks1248
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10/20/2017  12:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/20/2017  12:29 PM
nixluva wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Gudris wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I don't get the Ron Baker hate. This whole thing about our players only being bench players and not starters is a bit overblown.

The overreaction to Frank was both predictable and pathetic.

My main gripes are -

Lack of structured offense
Willy not being a starter
THJR - not doing anything well, yet people pick on Ron Baker


Totally agree about Baker, he is our best player on defence, very good role player

dude he is getting paid to do more than steal a couple of possession. He's way over his head in the role they have him in..like are you kidding me.

He can't shoot so he cant play sg, he doesn't see the floor, he cant set up the offense, he doesn't penetrate enough to make anything happen, can't run a P&R at all, so we got this one dimensional player that's good for a steal or 2, and were paying him 9 million dollars.

Baker did that better than any other PG last season, as a rookie. Had a long layoff from an ankle injury this summer. First game back, Baker goes up against the fastest player in the league.

Baker should be a backup on a team with a quality starting PG. We dont have that right now. You're right that he has to get to the rim more, and take more jumpers. Its what separates Baker from being starter quality.

like I said he's in the wrong role, and he wasn't guarding westbrook all that much, he was guarding felton..

we scored 84 points in 2017 nba game...what a joke

IMO your read on Baker is just too harsh. First off it’s game one and he barely had any prep. Then he’s rusty on top of trying to run a team which is still new to him. This isn’t about Baker being perfect RIGHT NOW! They’re looking to develop him and in truth he STILL had a positive impact on the team despite his turnovers and missing shots!!!

He needs more than one road game to get his game in gear and to develop chemistry with his teammates.
Let’s see how he progresses this season.

The thing is, I don't expect much more from baker, he should be way down on the depth chart, like 3rd or 4th at his position.

It's you guys that are pumping him up like his the next ron artest or bruce bowen. Dribbling a basket has nothing to do with rust, penetrating has nothing to do with rust. HE lacks the basic fundamentals of running the point, and that's because that's not his game, and that's not developing a player.

Forcing a player to do something he's not comfortable doing, cmon man......I just posted the article about pop forcing Aldridge to do what he's not comfortable doing was bad for him, and the team.

That why we suck at the whole developing players thing

ES
Day after game 10/19 vs OKC: thoughts?

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