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Justin Holiday: Did we make a mistake?
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MS
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10/12/2017  12:11 PM
Still very intersting the Knicks didn’t make him an offer and gave 70MM to Hardaway and meaty $10MM to Ron baker.

The guy has some nice moments last year and only signed a two year $9MM deal.

Having quite the preseason
28pts 11rbs
19pts 5rbs
21pts 4rbs

A little perplexing the way they are building the roster with maringal point guards and centers.

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BigDaddyG
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10/12/2017  12:18 PM
MS wrote:Still very intersting the Knicks didn’t make him an offer and gave 70MM to Hardaway and meaty $10MM to Ron baker.

The guy has some nice moments last year and only signed a two year $9MM deal.

Having quite the preseason
28pts 11rbs
19pts 5rbs
21pts 4rbs

A little perplexing the way they are building the roster with maringal point guards and centers.

I think we made a made mistake. I'd rather have Holiday and baker at $9million than Baker and THJ at more than $20million. I'm not saying Holiday is a better player. Just a better value and I would've preferred to have the cap flexibility.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
franco12
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10/12/2017  12:29 PM
I'm not sure we made a mistake letting Holiday go- but I don't quite understand why we gave out the kind of money to THjr & Baker.

But yea, better value might have been passing on THjr, but I guess they really liked him and feel like he can be a long term piece here.

Oh well. It's not like I've been the GM of a NBA team that has a 10+ year track record of pathetic results.

nixluva
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10/12/2017  12:37 PM
Holiday is 28 and THJ just turned 25. The Knicks also drafted Dotson. I think it was based on the KP Timeline. They clearly want players who will be closer to his age so they can run together.
fishmike
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10/12/2017  12:42 PM
franco12 wrote:I'm not sure we made a mistake letting Holiday go- but I don't quite understand why we gave out the kind of money to THjr & Baker.

But yea, better value might have been passing on THjr, but I guess they really liked him and feel like he can be a long term piece here.

Oh well. It's not like I've been the GM of a NBA team that has a 10+ year track record of pathetic results.

Age for starters. Holiday is 28. THjr is light years better, but thats not who replaces Holiday. Dotson does and Dotson is 21. I mean what is resigning Holiday accomplishing?
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knicks1248
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10/12/2017  12:47 PM
I don't even think he wanted to stay anyway, like he never came up as a option..I think he was feeling like AA did when he opted out..too much confusion, and probably wanted a larger role.
ES
mlby1215
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10/12/2017  12:53 PM
How could we not? But don't worry, someone would tell your it is just pre-season.
fishmike
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10/12/2017  1:00 PM
mlby1215 wrote:How could we not? But don't worry, someone would tell your it is just pre-season.
or maybe they will just say it didnt make sense to lock up a 28 year old player who is likely never starting material in the league on a rebuilding team. Instead we gave the same money Holiday got to Baker. He's 4 years younger. Dotson replaces Holiday which is the better fit
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HofstraBBall
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10/12/2017  1:01 PM
nixluva wrote:Holiday is 28 and THJ just turned 25. The Knicks also drafted Dotson. I think it was based on the KP Timeline. They clearly want players who will be closer to his age so they can run together.

So let's overpay for guys that similar just because they are three years apart?

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
fishmike
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10/12/2017  1:04 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:Holiday is 28 and THJ just turned 25. The Knicks also drafted Dotson. I think it was based on the KP Timeline. They clearly want players who will be closer to his age so they can run together.

So let's overpay for guys that similar just because they are three years apart?

you really think THjr and Holiday are similar? They are not.
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HofstraBBall
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10/12/2017  1:10 PM
MS wrote:Still very intersting the Knicks didn’t make him an offer and gave 70MM to Hardaway and meaty $10MM to Ron baker.

The guy has some nice moments last year and only signed a two year $9MM deal.

Having quite the preseason
28pts 11rbs
19pts 5rbs
21pts 4rbs

A little perplexing the way they are building the roster with maringal point guards and centers.

Made this exact point on several other threads. In my opinion Holiday was a big mistake. He played well for us and was a pretty cheap contract. Yet we go out and overpay for basically the same type of player in Timmy. Made no sense. Typical New York Knicks over paying for guys that have underachieved but all of a sudden show small signs of success and we find reasons to pay them more than anyone else.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
HofstraBBall
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10/12/2017  1:20 PM
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:Holiday is 28 and THJ just turned 25. The Knicks also drafted Dotson. I think it was based on the KP Timeline. They clearly want players who will be closer to his age so they can run together.

So let's overpay for guys that similar just because they are three years apart?

you really think THjr and Holiday are similar? They are not.

Okay. What do you think they do so differently? I think similar in that they are sparks off the bench. Dont see Timmy as more than that. Amd i like them both. Holiday better on defense.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
BigDaddyG
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10/12/2017  1:22 PM
fishmike wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:How could we not? But don't worry, someone would tell your it is just pre-season.
or maybe they will just say it didnt make sense to lock up a 28 year old player who is likely never starting material in the league on a rebuilding team. Instead we gave the same money Holiday got to Baker. He's 4 years younger. Dotson replaces Holiday which is the better fit

I wouldn't call a two-year $9million deal a big investment. If a younger player like Dotson proved to be a keeper, than Holidays deal could easily be moved. We're stuck with that THj deal for the foreseeable future.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
MS
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10/12/2017  1:50 PM
The issue is in today's NBA fringe starters and sixth men are getting $18MM.

So to lock in role player that shoots three pointers and defends is similar for peanuts is how you build a real team. He contributed in an uneven role last year. When guys like Turner, Crabbe, JR Smith, Pope are getting $14MM plus you take the value. That's why Crowder is one of the true underated players in the league.

We are looking for plus/minus guys. A three year age difference is nothing when the player is 28.

nixluva
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10/12/2017  2:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/12/2017  2:09 PM
MS wrote:The issue is in today's NBA fringe starters and sixth men are getting $18MM.

So to lock in role player that shoots three pointers and defends is similar for peanuts is how you build a real team. He contributed in an uneven role last year. When guys like Turner, Crabbe, JR Smith, Pope are getting $14MM plus you take the value. That's why Crowder is one of the true underated players in the league.

We are looking for plus/minus guys. A three year age difference is nothing when the player is 28.

Holiday is 6 years older tha KP and 29 in April. He'll be a non factor by the time KP hits his Early Prime. Holiday was a good player for this team but a different player than THJ. We have Dotson so really not a big deal to lose Holiday IMO.

martin
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10/12/2017  2:09 PM
For me I think the underlying issue of THJr versus a guy like Holiday is not only the age difference (along with salary), but the continuity you get playing with KP, Willy, Frank, etc.

Maybe you get 2 years of so-so with Holiday... and then what? You still have to find another player to fill that role.

The Knicks aren't competing for playoffs this year or deep playoffs next year, so with THJr you hopefully get a solid starter and build team continuity. With Holiday, you don't.

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knicks1248
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10/12/2017  2:21 PM
martin wrote:For me I think the underlying issue of THJr versus a guy like Holiday is not only the age difference (along with salary), but the continuity you get playing with KP, Willy, Frank, etc.

Maybe you get 2 years of so-so with Holiday... and then what? You still have to find another player to fill that role.

The Knicks aren't competing for playoffs this year or deep playoffs next year, so with THJr you hopefully get a solid starter and build team continuity. With Holiday, you don't.

The thing that some of you are not realizing is, there is no continuity when your losing. Only a hand full of teams have 80% of there roster for more than 2 seasons, and none are lottery teams.

People wanna think phil kept flipping the roster to appease MELO, but if we made the playoffs last season, Phil, Melo, Holiday and Rose would still be a knick.


If you think THJ (or anyone for the matter) will be here at the end of the 2018/19 season if we don't make the playoffs, you kidding yourself.

ES
Knixkik
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10/12/2017  2:26 PM
For the money we should have kept him, but Dotson essentially replaces him, with a higher ceiling.
fishmike
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10/12/2017  2:28 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:Holiday is 28 and THJ just turned 25. The Knicks also drafted Dotson. I think it was based on the KP Timeline. They clearly want players who will be closer to his age so they can run together.

So let's overpay for guys that similar just because they are three years apart?

you really think THjr and Holiday are similar? They are not.

Okay. What do you think they do so differently? I think similar in that they are sparks off the bench. Dont see Timmy as more than that. Amd i like them both. Holiday better on defense.

Well Timmy wasnt the spark off the bench. Once Korver was moved he was the starter, the 2nd scorer for that team during that stretch, did so for a winning team that went to the playoffs and during so posted a .560 TS%. By comparison Melo's TS% the last 3 years has been .530 and you call him a superstar. So there is that.

Timmy did that for a 2 month span. Maybe too small a sample size to award that contract... one could certainly make that argument but only time will tell that. Point is Timmy showed it for an extended stretch and for a winning team. Holiday has never shown anything close to that.

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fishmike
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10/12/2017  2:29 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:For me I think the underlying issue of THJr versus a guy like Holiday is not only the age difference (along with salary), but the continuity you get playing with KP, Willy, Frank, etc.

Maybe you get 2 years of so-so with Holiday... and then what? You still have to find another player to fill that role.

The Knicks aren't competing for playoffs this year or deep playoffs next year, so with THJr you hopefully get a solid starter and build team continuity. With Holiday, you don't.

The thing that some of you are not realizing is, there is no continuity when your losing. Only a hand full of teams have 80% of there roster for more than 2 seasons, and none are lottery teams.

People wanna think phil kept flipping the roster to appease MELO, but if we made the playoffs last season, Phil, Melo, Holiday and Rose would still be a knick.


If you think THJ (or anyone for the matter) will be here at the end of the 2018/19 season if we don't make the playoffs, you kidding yourself.


More classic knicks1248 alternative facts. Do tell me... how many is a handful?
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Justin Holiday: Did we make a mistake?

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