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TPercy
Posts: 24731
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/5/2014
Member: #5748

10/8/2017  11:12 PM
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
arkrud wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

TPercy, here is an article that has done the research for you.


https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008392_10214705041962963_7501126303057149593_n.jpg?oh=f12077eb886b0023f7a0daf1f23d63e0&oe=5A7CF59E

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/07/11/america-police-shooting-timeline

http://www.theroot.com/in-case-you-forgot-cops-are-still-killing-black-people-1793597703


The zero accountability stat is worrying to me. It suggests that everytime those officers stood trial, the jury of their peers/ judge got it wrong 99% of the time. The justice system has serious issues...but not issues like that. As for the cops not charged with a crime, it asusmes that when an officer shot someone armed or not, they were already in the wrong.

Also that picture of the people of the people who recieved no conviction is faulty. There was so much context behind all of them and the only one where a blatant miscarrage of justice was found I believe was Castile and the really old lady, and Rekia Boyd(thank the idiot prosecutor for that)

Mike Brown getting choked to death was fair play?
Tamir Rice getting shot to death while playing with a toy gun in he park was fair play?
Freddie passing away in a coma with a fractured spine was fair play?
Trayvon Martin losing his life was fair play?

The events with unarmed men shouldn't have resulted in the loss of their lives.

The exposure forcing even the bump in awareness publicly and even an attempt at accountability is also even new. In the past we would only take the officers word for it. Only due to technology allowing the public to even witness some of these events have allowed any of these cases to even gain traction.

Now why should there be blind credibility? Other then having no choice, why should we blindly believe that the right thing is being done on a regular basis regarding these issues? Based on history what should we pull from to offer blind faith and instant credibility?

Mike Brown was shot to death after attacking 1 cop and charging at another. Even Eric Holder said it would have been absurd to prosecute.

Tamir Rice wasn't the officers fault, it was the whoever put in that call and I hope he gets ****ed because of it.

Looking back I think Freddie Gray deserved better justice. I looked at the judges words in his ruling and he said that failing to put on a seatbelt for those in custody isn't a crime especially since the rule had been put in days before. I disagree with this, if you violate conduct with or without intent you put the lives of those in custody at risk and thus you should face punishment for it. However, the judge wasn't the only one at fault. The prosecutors in that case made a mockery of themselves. Nevertheless, Freddie Grays family got a 6.4 million settlement.

Trayvon Martin got into a really physicall altercation with Zimmerman. Zimmer is a piece of **** but when you have two black eyes, a fractured nose, a multiple lacerations at the back of your head...what the hell are you supposed to do? Looking back, charges probably weren't necessary in the first place.

Eric Gradner not Brown my bad. The choke hold applied wasnt legal. Reguardless if it was, if you are choking someone there is always a time limit until they run out of air and die. There was no need to arrest and brimg him to the station in the first place.

With Rice after it was relayed that there was a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. It was also relayed that it may be a toy gun and it may be a juvenile. They claimed they never received the latter information which is crazy by itself. But if they are reaponding to a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. Why are they putting themselves in direct shooting range of the dude with a gun? They also claimed that they yelled reoeadly for him to drop the gun. Yet were not able to identify that he was a 12 yr old boy before they let of their guns after feeling threatend after putting themselves in a position to be threatens.

The officer who let off the shots also failed the aptitude test to become an officer and Cleveland department didn't do a background check on him.

Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon by the dispatcher. He didnt comply to the officers commands. He initiated the confrontation afyer failing to comply. Then when the officers reach the scene they decide to drug test Trayvon looking for any type of angle to justify his death.

This doesnt even touch on the lying on police reports until video evidence and witnesses testify other words. Or on how a lot of these officers seem to have a lot of past claims of brutality on thier profile.

As for the kneeling. The video visuals seem to have been the last straw. African Americans could have been kneeling for years for the issues in the 70s 80s 90s. Not just from police violence but racial issues in general. Mass incarceration, school funding, uneven wages, predatory lending etc...


I'll give you Eric Garner. I think the grand jury messed up on that one.

Tamir Rice again while I can't speak to the police protocol especially given that the guy wasn't qualified for the job to begin with, the cop couldn't be arrested especially if the shooting made sense.

You stated that Zimmerman initiated confrontation with Martin even though his lawyers said otherwise. Its his word against Zimmermans and given that his injuries were consistent to what Zimmerman described, I wouldn't be surprised if they were inclined to believe Zimmerman.

Nobody cares about factual part. It is all about emotions and impressions.
The reality shows are stepping down from TV screens into the real life.
And you still try to find some rime of reason.
This script is writing itself without the screenwriter.
And The show must go on.


Yep. Facts matter.

What FACTS are you talking about in particular? I'm still getting a vibe that there's some doubt about the necessity and validity of the issues behind the protests.


The facts of those high profile police killings of black people that got national coverage. I fully support the spread of those stories because without Mike Brown and Tamir Rice, who knows whether or not an investigation into their corrupt police departments would have happened or not, but that dosen't change the fact that there was a lot of context behind those unfortunate events
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nixluva
Posts: 55453
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/8/2017  11:26 PM
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
arkrud wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

TPercy, here is an article that has done the research for you.


https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008392_10214705041962963_7501126303057149593_n.jpg?oh=f12077eb886b0023f7a0daf1f23d63e0&oe=5A7CF59E

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/07/11/america-police-shooting-timeline

http://www.theroot.com/in-case-you-forgot-cops-are-still-killing-black-people-1793597703


The zero accountability stat is worrying to me. It suggests that everytime those officers stood trial, the jury of their peers/ judge got it wrong 99% of the time. The justice system has serious issues...but not issues like that. As for the cops not charged with a crime, it asusmes that when an officer shot someone armed or not, they were already in the wrong.

Also that picture of the people of the people who recieved no conviction is faulty. There was so much context behind all of them and the only one where a blatant miscarrage of justice was found I believe was Castile and the really old lady, and Rekia Boyd(thank the idiot prosecutor for that)

Mike Brown getting choked to death was fair play?
Tamir Rice getting shot to death while playing with a toy gun in he park was fair play?
Freddie passing away in a coma with a fractured spine was fair play?
Trayvon Martin losing his life was fair play?

The events with unarmed men shouldn't have resulted in the loss of their lives.

The exposure forcing even the bump in awareness publicly and even an attempt at accountability is also even new. In the past we would only take the officers word for it. Only due to technology allowing the public to even witness some of these events have allowed any of these cases to even gain traction.

Now why should there be blind credibility? Other then having no choice, why should we blindly believe that the right thing is being done on a regular basis regarding these issues? Based on history what should we pull from to offer blind faith and instant credibility?

Mike Brown was shot to death after attacking 1 cop and charging at another. Even Eric Holder said it would have been absurd to prosecute.

Tamir Rice wasn't the officers fault, it was the whoever put in that call and I hope he gets ****ed because of it.

Looking back I think Freddie Gray deserved better justice. I looked at the judges words in his ruling and he said that failing to put on a seatbelt for those in custody isn't a crime especially since the rule had been put in days before. I disagree with this, if you violate conduct with or without intent you put the lives of those in custody at risk and thus you should face punishment for it. However, the judge wasn't the only one at fault. The prosecutors in that case made a mockery of themselves. Nevertheless, Freddie Grays family got a 6.4 million settlement.

Trayvon Martin got into a really physicall altercation with Zimmerman. Zimmer is a piece of **** but when you have two black eyes, a fractured nose, a multiple lacerations at the back of your head...what the hell are you supposed to do? Looking back, charges probably weren't necessary in the first place.

Eric Gradner not Brown my bad. The choke hold applied wasnt legal. Reguardless if it was, if you are choking someone there is always a time limit until they run out of air and die. There was no need to arrest and brimg him to the station in the first place.

With Rice after it was relayed that there was a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. It was also relayed that it may be a toy gun and it may be a juvenile. They claimed they never received the latter information which is crazy by itself. But if they are reaponding to a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. Why are they putting themselves in direct shooting range of the dude with a gun? They also claimed that they yelled reoeadly for him to drop the gun. Yet were not able to identify that he was a 12 yr old boy before they let of their guns after feeling threatend after putting themselves in a position to be threatens.

The officer who let off the shots also failed the aptitude test to become an officer and Cleveland department didn't do a background check on him.

Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon by the dispatcher. He didnt comply to the officers commands. He initiated the confrontation afyer failing to comply. Then when the officers reach the scene they decide to drug test Trayvon looking for any type of angle to justify his death.

This doesnt even touch on the lying on police reports until video evidence and witnesses testify other words. Or on how a lot of these officers seem to have a lot of past claims of brutality on thier profile.

As for the kneeling. The video visuals seem to have been the last straw. African Americans could have been kneeling for years for the issues in the 70s 80s 90s. Not just from police violence but racial issues in general. Mass incarceration, school funding, uneven wages, predatory lending etc...


I'll give you Eric Garner. I think the grand jury messed up on that one.

Tamir Rice again while I can't speak to the police protocol especially given that the guy wasn't qualified for the job to begin with, the cop couldn't be arrested especially if the shooting made sense.

You stated that Zimmerman initiated confrontation with Martin even though his lawyers said otherwise. Its his word against Zimmermans and given that his injuries were consistent to what Zimmerman described, I wouldn't be surprised if they were inclined to believe Zimmerman.

Nobody cares about factual part. It is all about emotions and impressions.
The reality shows are stepping down from TV screens into the real life.
And you still try to find some rime of reason.
This script is writing itself without the screenwriter.
And The show must go on.


Yep. Facts matter.

What FACTS are you talking about in particular? I'm still getting a vibe that there's some doubt about the necessity and validity of the issues behind the protests.


The facts of those high profile police killings of black people that got national coverage. I fully support the spread of those stories because without Mike Brown and Tamir Rice, who knows whether or not an investigation into their corrupt police departments would have happened or not, but that dosen't change the fact that there was a lot of context behind those unfortunate events

WTF does CONTEXT do for Tamir's mother? That was an atrocious failure to observe proper protocol. In fact a LOT of these shooting are BAD Police work. Let's stop focusing on background issues that aren't the heart of the problem.

Too often the biggest problem is a Cop not maintaining proper protocol when dealing with citizens. My Dad is a retired NYPD Lieutenant. He taught at the Academy later in his career. It's a tough job which is why you must observe proper protocol. Many of these senseless deaths are examples of what not to do as a Police Officer.

arkrud
Posts: 30750
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
10/8/2017  11:53 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/8/2017  11:54 PM
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
arkrud wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

TPercy, here is an article that has done the research for you.


https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008392_10214705041962963_7501126303057149593_n.jpg?oh=f12077eb886b0023f7a0daf1f23d63e0&oe=5A7CF59E

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/07/11/america-police-shooting-timeline

http://www.theroot.com/in-case-you-forgot-cops-are-still-killing-black-people-1793597703


The zero accountability stat is worrying to me. It suggests that everytime those officers stood trial, the jury of their peers/ judge got it wrong 99% of the time. The justice system has serious issues...but not issues like that. As for the cops not charged with a crime, it asusmes that when an officer shot someone armed or not, they were already in the wrong.

Also that picture of the people of the people who recieved no conviction is faulty. There was so much context behind all of them and the only one where a blatant miscarrage of justice was found I believe was Castile and the really old lady, and Rekia Boyd(thank the idiot prosecutor for that)

Mike Brown getting choked to death was fair play?
Tamir Rice getting shot to death while playing with a toy gun in he park was fair play?
Freddie passing away in a coma with a fractured spine was fair play?
Trayvon Martin losing his life was fair play?

The events with unarmed men shouldn't have resulted in the loss of their lives.

The exposure forcing even the bump in awareness publicly and even an attempt at accountability is also even new. In the past we would only take the officers word for it. Only due to technology allowing the public to even witness some of these events have allowed any of these cases to even gain traction.

Now why should there be blind credibility? Other then having no choice, why should we blindly believe that the right thing is being done on a regular basis regarding these issues? Based on history what should we pull from to offer blind faith and instant credibility?

Mike Brown was shot to death after attacking 1 cop and charging at another. Even Eric Holder said it would have been absurd to prosecute.

Tamir Rice wasn't the officers fault, it was the whoever put in that call and I hope he gets ****ed because of it.

Looking back I think Freddie Gray deserved better justice. I looked at the judges words in his ruling and he said that failing to put on a seatbelt for those in custody isn't a crime especially since the rule had been put in days before. I disagree with this, if you violate conduct with or without intent you put the lives of those in custody at risk and thus you should face punishment for it. However, the judge wasn't the only one at fault. The prosecutors in that case made a mockery of themselves. Nevertheless, Freddie Grays family got a 6.4 million settlement.

Trayvon Martin got into a really physicall altercation with Zimmerman. Zimmer is a piece of **** but when you have two black eyes, a fractured nose, a multiple lacerations at the back of your head...what the hell are you supposed to do? Looking back, charges probably weren't necessary in the first place.

Eric Gradner not Brown my bad. The choke hold applied wasnt legal. Reguardless if it was, if you are choking someone there is always a time limit until they run out of air and die. There was no need to arrest and brimg him to the station in the first place.

With Rice after it was relayed that there was a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. It was also relayed that it may be a toy gun and it may be a juvenile. They claimed they never received the latter information which is crazy by itself. But if they are reaponding to a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. Why are they putting themselves in direct shooting range of the dude with a gun? They also claimed that they yelled reoeadly for him to drop the gun. Yet were not able to identify that he was a 12 yr old boy before they let of their guns after feeling threatend after putting themselves in a position to be threatens.

The officer who let off the shots also failed the aptitude test to become an officer and Cleveland department didn't do a background check on him.

Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon by the dispatcher. He didnt comply to the officers commands. He initiated the confrontation afyer failing to comply. Then when the officers reach the scene they decide to drug test Trayvon looking for any type of angle to justify his death.

This doesnt even touch on the lying on police reports until video evidence and witnesses testify other words. Or on how a lot of these officers seem to have a lot of past claims of brutality on thier profile.

As for the kneeling. The video visuals seem to have been the last straw. African Americans could have been kneeling for years for the issues in the 70s 80s 90s. Not just from police violence but racial issues in general. Mass incarceration, school funding, uneven wages, predatory lending etc...


I'll give you Eric Garner. I think the grand jury messed up on that one.

Tamir Rice again while I can't speak to the police protocol especially given that the guy wasn't qualified for the job to begin with, the cop couldn't be arrested especially if the shooting made sense.

You stated that Zimmerman initiated confrontation with Martin even though his lawyers said otherwise. Its his word against Zimmermans and given that his injuries were consistent to what Zimmerman described, I wouldn't be surprised if they were inclined to believe Zimmerman.

Nobody cares about factual part. It is all about emotions and impressions.
The reality shows are stepping down from TV screens into the real life.
And you still try to find some rime of reason.
This script is writing itself without the screenwriter.
And The show must go on.


Yep. Facts matter.

What FACTS are you talking about in particular? I'm still getting a vibe that there's some doubt about the necessity and validity of the issues behind the protests.


The facts of those high profile police killings of black people that got national coverage. I fully support the spread of those stories because without Mike Brown and Tamir Rice, who knows whether or not an investigation into their corrupt police departments would have happened or not, but that dosen't change the fact that there was a lot of context behind those unfortunate events

WTF does CONTEXT do for Tamir's mother? That was an atrocious failure to observe proper protocol. In fact a LOT of these shooting are BAD Police work. Let's stop focusing on background issues that aren't the heart of the problem.

Too often the biggest problem is a Cop not maintaining proper protocol when dealing with citizens. My Dad is a retired NYPD Lieutenant. He taught at the Academy later in his career. It's a tough job which is why you must observe proper protocol. Many of these senseless deaths are examples of what not to do as a Police Officer.

Nix I am confused.
Is it about police not sticking to proper protocol and rules of engagement... or about police killing AA people because officers are racists?
It is still a tragedy ether way but everybody need some clarity about what protest is all about.
Is it about sloppy, incompetent police officers or about racially based killing based on deeply rooted racism in all American society?

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
TPercy
Posts: 24731
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/5/2014
Member: #5748

10/8/2017  11:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/8/2017  11:56 PM
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
arkrud wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

TPercy, here is an article that has done the research for you.


https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008392_10214705041962963_7501126303057149593_n.jpg?oh=f12077eb886b0023f7a0daf1f23d63e0&oe=5A7CF59E

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/07/11/america-police-shooting-timeline

http://www.theroot.com/in-case-you-forgot-cops-are-still-killing-black-people-1793597703


The zero accountability stat is worrying to me. It suggests that everytime those officers stood trial, the jury of their peers/ judge got it wrong 99% of the time. The justice system has serious issues...but not issues like that. As for the cops not charged with a crime, it asusmes that when an officer shot someone armed or not, they were already in the wrong.

Also that picture of the people of the people who recieved no conviction is faulty. There was so much context behind all of them and the only one where a blatant miscarrage of justice was found I believe was Castile and the really old lady, and Rekia Boyd(thank the idiot prosecutor for that)

Mike Brown getting choked to death was fair play?
Tamir Rice getting shot to death while playing with a toy gun in he park was fair play?
Freddie passing away in a coma with a fractured spine was fair play?
Trayvon Martin losing his life was fair play?

The events with unarmed men shouldn't have resulted in the loss of their lives.

The exposure forcing even the bump in awareness publicly and even an attempt at accountability is also even new. In the past we would only take the officers word for it. Only due to technology allowing the public to even witness some of these events have allowed any of these cases to even gain traction.

Now why should there be blind credibility? Other then having no choice, why should we blindly believe that the right thing is being done on a regular basis regarding these issues? Based on history what should we pull from to offer blind faith and instant credibility?

Mike Brown was shot to death after attacking 1 cop and charging at another. Even Eric Holder said it would have been absurd to prosecute.

Tamir Rice wasn't the officers fault, it was the whoever put in that call and I hope he gets ****ed because of it.

Looking back I think Freddie Gray deserved better justice. I looked at the judges words in his ruling and he said that failing to put on a seatbelt for those in custody isn't a crime especially since the rule had been put in days before. I disagree with this, if you violate conduct with or without intent you put the lives of those in custody at risk and thus you should face punishment for it. However, the judge wasn't the only one at fault. The prosecutors in that case made a mockery of themselves. Nevertheless, Freddie Grays family got a 6.4 million settlement.

Trayvon Martin got into a really physicall altercation with Zimmerman. Zimmer is a piece of **** but when you have two black eyes, a fractured nose, a multiple lacerations at the back of your head...what the hell are you supposed to do? Looking back, charges probably weren't necessary in the first place.

Eric Gradner not Brown my bad. The choke hold applied wasnt legal. Reguardless if it was, if you are choking someone there is always a time limit until they run out of air and die. There was no need to arrest and brimg him to the station in the first place.

With Rice after it was relayed that there was a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. It was also relayed that it may be a toy gun and it may be a juvenile. They claimed they never received the latter information which is crazy by itself. But if they are reaponding to a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. Why are they putting themselves in direct shooting range of the dude with a gun? They also claimed that they yelled reoeadly for him to drop the gun. Yet were not able to identify that he was a 12 yr old boy before they let of their guns after feeling threatend after putting themselves in a position to be threatens.

The officer who let off the shots also failed the aptitude test to become an officer and Cleveland department didn't do a background check on him.

Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon by the dispatcher. He didnt comply to the officers commands. He initiated the confrontation afyer failing to comply. Then when the officers reach the scene they decide to drug test Trayvon looking for any type of angle to justify his death.

This doesnt even touch on the lying on police reports until video evidence and witnesses testify other words. Or on how a lot of these officers seem to have a lot of past claims of brutality on thier profile.

As for the kneeling. The video visuals seem to have been the last straw. African Americans could have been kneeling for years for the issues in the 70s 80s 90s. Not just from police violence but racial issues in general. Mass incarceration, school funding, uneven wages, predatory lending etc...


I'll give you Eric Garner. I think the grand jury messed up on that one.

Tamir Rice again while I can't speak to the police protocol especially given that the guy wasn't qualified for the job to begin with, the cop couldn't be arrested especially if the shooting made sense.

You stated that Zimmerman initiated confrontation with Martin even though his lawyers said otherwise. Its his word against Zimmermans and given that his injuries were consistent to what Zimmerman described, I wouldn't be surprised if they were inclined to believe Zimmerman.

Nobody cares about factual part. It is all about emotions and impressions.
The reality shows are stepping down from TV screens into the real life.
And you still try to find some rime of reason.
This script is writing itself without the screenwriter.
And The show must go on.


Yep. Facts matter.

What FACTS are you talking about in particular? I'm still getting a vibe that there's some doubt about the necessity and validity of the issues behind the protests.


The facts of those high profile police killings of black people that got national coverage. I fully support the spread of those stories because without Mike Brown and Tamir Rice, who knows whether or not an investigation into their corrupt police departments would have happened or not, but that dosen't change the fact that there was a lot of context behind those unfortunate events

WTF does CONTEXT do for Tamir's mother? That was an atrocious failure to observe proper protocol. In fact a LOT of these shooting are BAD Police work. Let's stop focusing on background issues that aren't the heart of the problem.

Too often the biggest problem is a Cop not maintaining proper protocol when dealing with citizens. My Dad is a retired NYPD Lieutenant. He taught at the Academy later in his career. It's a tough job which is why you must observe proper protocol. Many of these senseless deaths are examples of what not to do as a Police Officer.


And guess what happened? the DOJ report that slammed Cleveland for its poor protocol and now new plans are in the process of being put in place for it. If Tamir Rice's death followed the narrative that that facebook post was getting at his family wouldn't have gotten anything in the settlement, cop wouldn't have been fired and essentially ruined( deservedly) and Cleveland wouldn't have any new police reforms.
The Future is Bright!
newyorknewyork
Posts: 27214
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
10/9/2017  12:08 AM
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

TPercy, here is an article that has done the research for you.


https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008392_10214705041962963_7501126303057149593_n.jpg?oh=f12077eb886b0023f7a0daf1f23d63e0&oe=5A7CF59E

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/07/11/america-police-shooting-timeline

http://www.theroot.com/in-case-you-forgot-cops-are-still-killing-black-people-1793597703


The zero accountability stat is worrying to me. It suggests that everytime those officers stood trial, the jury of their peers/ judge got it wrong 99% of the time. The justice system has serious issues...but not issues like that. As for the cops not charged with a crime, it asusmes that when an officer shot someone armed or not, they were already in the wrong.

Also that picture of the people of the people who recieved no conviction is faulty. There was so much context behind all of them and the only one where a blatant miscarrage of justice was found I believe was Castile and the really old lady, and Rekia Boyd(thank the idiot prosecutor for that)

Mike Brown getting choked to death was fair play?
Tamir Rice getting shot to death while playing with a toy gun in he park was fair play?
Freddie passing away in a coma with a fractured spine was fair play?
Trayvon Martin losing his life was fair play?

The events with unarmed men shouldn't have resulted in the loss of their lives.

The exposure forcing even the bump in awareness publicly and even an attempt at accountability is also even new. In the past we would only take the officers word for it. Only due to technology allowing the public to even witness some of these events have allowed any of these cases to even gain traction.

Now why should there be blind credibility? Other then having no choice, why should we blindly believe that the right thing is being done on a regular basis regarding these issues? Based on history what should we pull from to offer blind faith and instant credibility?

Mike Brown was shot to death after attacking 1 cop and charging at another. Even Eric Holder said it would have been absurd to prosecute.

Tamir Rice wasn't the officers fault, it was the whoever put in that call and I hope he gets ****ed because of it.

Looking back I think Freddie Gray deserved better justice. I looked at the judges words in his ruling and he said that failing to put on a seatbelt for those in custody isn't a crime especially since the rule had been put in days before. I disagree with this, if you violate conduct with or without intent you put the lives of those in custody at risk and thus you should face punishment for it. However, the judge wasn't the only one at fault. The prosecutors in that case made a mockery of themselves. Nevertheless, Freddie Grays family got a 6.4 million settlement.

Trayvon Martin got into a really physicall altercation with Zimmerman. Zimmer is a piece of **** but when you have two black eyes, a fractured nose, a multiple lacerations at the back of your head...what the hell are you supposed to do? Looking back, charges probably weren't necessary in the first place.

Eric Gradner not Brown my bad. The choke hold applied wasnt legal. Reguardless if it was, if you are choking someone there is always a time limit until they run out of air and die. There was no need to arrest and brimg him to the station in the first place.

With Rice after it was relayed that there was a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. It was also relayed that it may be a toy gun and it may be a juvenile. They claimed they never received the latter information which is crazy by itself. But if they are reaponding to a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. Why are they putting themselves in direct shooting range of the dude with a gun? They also claimed that they yelled reoeadly for him to drop the gun. Yet were not able to identify that he was a 12 yr old boy before they let of their guns after feeling threatend after putting themselves in a position to be threatens.

The officer who let off the shots also failed the aptitude test to become an officer and Cleveland department didn't do a background check on him.

Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon by the dispatcher. He didnt comply to the officers commands. He initiated the confrontation afyer failing to comply. Then when the officers reach the scene they decide to drug test Trayvon looking for any type of angle to justify his death.

This doesnt even touch on the lying on police reports until video evidence and witnesses testify other words. Or on how a lot of these officers seem to have a lot of past claims of brutality on thier profile.

As for the kneeling. The video visuals seem to have been the last straw. African Americans could have been kneeling for years for the issues in the 70s 80s 90s. Not just from police violence but racial issues in general. Mass incarceration, school funding, uneven wages, predatory lending etc...


I'll give you Eric Garner. I think the grand jury messed up on that one.

Tamir Rice again while I can't speak to the police protocol especially given that the guy wasn't qualified for the job to begin with, the cop couldn't be arrested especially if the shooting made sense.

You stated that Zimmerman initiated confrontation with Martin even though his lawyers said otherwise. Its his word against Zimmermans and given that his injuries were consistent to what Zimmerman described, I wouldn't be surprised if they were inclined to believe Zimmerman.

If protocal wasnt followed due to recklessness leading to the death of a civilian then the officers should be held accountable for those decisions.

Zimmerman was the one armed(Yea I know open carry). Trayvon had skittles. Zimmerman is the one who racially profiled Trayvon. Called the police yet didnt let them handle it. Hes on record stating he was going to follow him after being told not to. I dont feel there was enough evidence to charge him with 2nd degree murder. But I feel the judge should have held him accountable in some capacity for creating the situation in the first place. Zimmerman even beat the civil case afterwards.

arkrud
Posts: 30750
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
10/9/2017  12:14 AM
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
arkrud wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

TPercy, here is an article that has done the research for you.


https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008392_10214705041962963_7501126303057149593_n.jpg?oh=f12077eb886b0023f7a0daf1f23d63e0&oe=5A7CF59E

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/07/11/america-police-shooting-timeline

http://www.theroot.com/in-case-you-forgot-cops-are-still-killing-black-people-1793597703


The zero accountability stat is worrying to me. It suggests that everytime those officers stood trial, the jury of their peers/ judge got it wrong 99% of the time. The justice system has serious issues...but not issues like that. As for the cops not charged with a crime, it asusmes that when an officer shot someone armed or not, they were already in the wrong.

Also that picture of the people of the people who recieved no conviction is faulty. There was so much context behind all of them and the only one where a blatant miscarrage of justice was found I believe was Castile and the really old lady, and Rekia Boyd(thank the idiot prosecutor for that)

Mike Brown getting choked to death was fair play?
Tamir Rice getting shot to death while playing with a toy gun in he park was fair play?
Freddie passing away in a coma with a fractured spine was fair play?
Trayvon Martin losing his life was fair play?

The events with unarmed men shouldn't have resulted in the loss of their lives.

The exposure forcing even the bump in awareness publicly and even an attempt at accountability is also even new. In the past we would only take the officers word for it. Only due to technology allowing the public to even witness some of these events have allowed any of these cases to even gain traction.

Now why should there be blind credibility? Other then having no choice, why should we blindly believe that the right thing is being done on a regular basis regarding these issues? Based on history what should we pull from to offer blind faith and instant credibility?

Mike Brown was shot to death after attacking 1 cop and charging at another. Even Eric Holder said it would have been absurd to prosecute.

Tamir Rice wasn't the officers fault, it was the whoever put in that call and I hope he gets ****ed because of it.

Looking back I think Freddie Gray deserved better justice. I looked at the judges words in his ruling and he said that failing to put on a seatbelt for those in custody isn't a crime especially since the rule had been put in days before. I disagree with this, if you violate conduct with or without intent you put the lives of those in custody at risk and thus you should face punishment for it. However, the judge wasn't the only one at fault. The prosecutors in that case made a mockery of themselves. Nevertheless, Freddie Grays family got a 6.4 million settlement.

Trayvon Martin got into a really physicall altercation with Zimmerman. Zimmer is a piece of **** but when you have two black eyes, a fractured nose, a multiple lacerations at the back of your head...what the hell are you supposed to do? Looking back, charges probably weren't necessary in the first place.

Eric Gradner not Brown my bad. The choke hold applied wasnt legal. Reguardless if it was, if you are choking someone there is always a time limit until they run out of air and die. There was no need to arrest and brimg him to the station in the first place.

With Rice after it was relayed that there was a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. It was also relayed that it may be a toy gun and it may be a juvenile. They claimed they never received the latter information which is crazy by itself. But if they are reaponding to a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. Why are they putting themselves in direct shooting range of the dude with a gun? They also claimed that they yelled reoeadly for him to drop the gun. Yet were not able to identify that he was a 12 yr old boy before they let of their guns after feeling threatend after putting themselves in a position to be threatens.

The officer who let off the shots also failed the aptitude test to become an officer and Cleveland department didn't do a background check on him.

Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon by the dispatcher. He didnt comply to the officers commands. He initiated the confrontation afyer failing to comply. Then when the officers reach the scene they decide to drug test Trayvon looking for any type of angle to justify his death.

This doesnt even touch on the lying on police reports until video evidence and witnesses testify other words. Or on how a lot of these officers seem to have a lot of past claims of brutality on thier profile.

As for the kneeling. The video visuals seem to have been the last straw. African Americans could have been kneeling for years for the issues in the 70s 80s 90s. Not just from police violence but racial issues in general. Mass incarceration, school funding, uneven wages, predatory lending etc...


I'll give you Eric Garner. I think the grand jury messed up on that one.

Tamir Rice again while I can't speak to the police protocol especially given that the guy wasn't qualified for the job to begin with, the cop couldn't be arrested especially if the shooting made sense.

You stated that Zimmerman initiated confrontation with Martin even though his lawyers said otherwise. Its his word against Zimmermans and given that his injuries were consistent to what Zimmerman described, I wouldn't be surprised if they were inclined to believe Zimmerman.

Nobody cares about factual part. It is all about emotions and impressions.
The reality shows are stepping down from TV screens into the real life.
And you still try to find some rime of reason.
This script is writing itself without the screenwriter.
And The show must go on.


Yep. Facts matter.

What FACTS are you talking about in particular? I'm still getting a vibe that there's some doubt about the necessity and validity of the issues behind the protests.


The facts of those high profile police killings of black people that got national coverage. I fully support the spread of those stories because without Mike Brown and Tamir Rice, who knows whether or not an investigation into their corrupt police departments would have happened or not, but that dosen't change the fact that there was a lot of context behind those unfortunate events

WTF does CONTEXT do for Tamir's mother? That was an atrocious failure to observe proper protocol. In fact a LOT of these shooting are BAD Police work. Let's stop focusing on background issues that aren't the heart of the problem.

Too often the biggest problem is a Cop not maintaining proper protocol when dealing with citizens. My Dad is a retired NYPD Lieutenant. He taught at the Academy later in his career. It's a tough job which is why you must observe proper protocol. Many of these senseless deaths are examples of what not to do as a Police Officer.


And guess what happened? the DOJ report that slammed Cleveland for its poor protocol and now new plans are in the process of being put in place for it. If Tamir Rice's death followed the narrative that that facebook post was getting at his family wouldn't have gotten anything in the settlement, cop wouldn't have been fired and essentially ruined( deservedly) and Cleveland wouldn't have any new police reforms.

US has the best well established legal system which supports evolutionary improvements is social life.
There is a ton of evidence that this system works better that any other.
It is slow footed for a reason - to avoid revolutionary violence which set human race back over and over again.
The freedoms we posses are unbelievable and this protests are another testament to advancement of American society.
Makes me proud as American that American citizens can protest the Anthem and raze the issues and we can agree to disagree and discuss it in civilized manner.
I do not agree with the protest method but still proud that it happening and how it handled.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
newyorknewyork
Posts: 27214
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
10/9/2017  12:28 AM
https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertsamaha/blue-lies-matter?utm_term=.fkN54KPL4Y#.cbYyavZbaQ
nixluva
Posts: 55453
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/9/2017  2:25 AM
arkrud wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
arkrud wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

TPercy, here is an article that has done the research for you.


https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008392_10214705041962963_7501126303057149593_n.jpg?oh=f12077eb886b0023f7a0daf1f23d63e0&oe=5A7CF59E

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/07/11/america-police-shooting-timeline

http://www.theroot.com/in-case-you-forgot-cops-are-still-killing-black-people-1793597703


The zero accountability stat is worrying to me. It suggests that everytime those officers stood trial, the jury of their peers/ judge got it wrong 99% of the time. The justice system has serious issues...but not issues like that. As for the cops not charged with a crime, it asusmes that when an officer shot someone armed or not, they were already in the wrong.

Also that picture of the people of the people who recieved no conviction is faulty. There was so much context behind all of them and the only one where a blatant miscarrage of justice was found I believe was Castile and the really old lady, and Rekia Boyd(thank the idiot prosecutor for that)

Mike Brown getting choked to death was fair play?
Tamir Rice getting shot to death while playing with a toy gun in he park was fair play?
Freddie passing away in a coma with a fractured spine was fair play?
Trayvon Martin losing his life was fair play?

The events with unarmed men shouldn't have resulted in the loss of their lives.

The exposure forcing even the bump in awareness publicly and even an attempt at accountability is also even new. In the past we would only take the officers word for it. Only due to technology allowing the public to even witness some of these events have allowed any of these cases to even gain traction.

Now why should there be blind credibility? Other then having no choice, why should we blindly believe that the right thing is being done on a regular basis regarding these issues? Based on history what should we pull from to offer blind faith and instant credibility?

Mike Brown was shot to death after attacking 1 cop and charging at another. Even Eric Holder said it would have been absurd to prosecute.

Tamir Rice wasn't the officers fault, it was the whoever put in that call and I hope he gets ****ed because of it.

Looking back I think Freddie Gray deserved better justice. I looked at the judges words in his ruling and he said that failing to put on a seatbelt for those in custody isn't a crime especially since the rule had been put in days before. I disagree with this, if you violate conduct with or without intent you put the lives of those in custody at risk and thus you should face punishment for it. However, the judge wasn't the only one at fault. The prosecutors in that case made a mockery of themselves. Nevertheless, Freddie Grays family got a 6.4 million settlement.

Trayvon Martin got into a really physicall altercation with Zimmerman. Zimmer is a piece of **** but when you have two black eyes, a fractured nose, a multiple lacerations at the back of your head...what the hell are you supposed to do? Looking back, charges probably weren't necessary in the first place.

Eric Gradner not Brown my bad. The choke hold applied wasnt legal. Reguardless if it was, if you are choking someone there is always a time limit until they run out of air and die. There was no need to arrest and brimg him to the station in the first place.

With Rice after it was relayed that there was a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. It was also relayed that it may be a toy gun and it may be a juvenile. They claimed they never received the latter information which is crazy by itself. But if they are reaponding to a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. Why are they putting themselves in direct shooting range of the dude with a gun? They also claimed that they yelled reoeadly for him to drop the gun. Yet were not able to identify that he was a 12 yr old boy before they let of their guns after feeling threatend after putting themselves in a position to be threatens.

The officer who let off the shots also failed the aptitude test to become an officer and Cleveland department didn't do a background check on him.

Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon by the dispatcher. He didnt comply to the officers commands. He initiated the confrontation afyer failing to comply. Then when the officers reach the scene they decide to drug test Trayvon looking for any type of angle to justify his death.

This doesnt even touch on the lying on police reports until video evidence and witnesses testify other words. Or on how a lot of these officers seem to have a lot of past claims of brutality on thier profile.

As for the kneeling. The video visuals seem to have been the last straw. African Americans could have been kneeling for years for the issues in the 70s 80s 90s. Not just from police violence but racial issues in general. Mass incarceration, school funding, uneven wages, predatory lending etc...


I'll give you Eric Garner. I think the grand jury messed up on that one.

Tamir Rice again while I can't speak to the police protocol especially given that the guy wasn't qualified for the job to begin with, the cop couldn't be arrested especially if the shooting made sense.

You stated that Zimmerman initiated confrontation with Martin even though his lawyers said otherwise. Its his word against Zimmermans and given that his injuries were consistent to what Zimmerman described, I wouldn't be surprised if they were inclined to believe Zimmerman.

Nobody cares about factual part. It is all about emotions and impressions.
The reality shows are stepping down from TV screens into the real life.
And you still try to find some rime of reason.
This script is writing itself without the screenwriter.
And The show must go on.


Yep. Facts matter.

What FACTS are you talking about in particular? I'm still getting a vibe that there's some doubt about the necessity and validity of the issues behind the protests.


The facts of those high profile police killings of black people that got national coverage. I fully support the spread of those stories because without Mike Brown and Tamir Rice, who knows whether or not an investigation into their corrupt police departments would have happened or not, but that dosen't change the fact that there was a lot of context behind those unfortunate events

WTF does CONTEXT do for Tamir's mother? That was an atrocious failure to observe proper protocol. In fact a LOT of these shooting are BAD Police work. Let's stop focusing on background issues that aren't the heart of the problem.

Too often the biggest problem is a Cop not maintaining proper protocol when dealing with citizens. My Dad is a retired NYPD Lieutenant. He taught at the Academy later in his career. It's a tough job which is why you must observe proper protocol. Many of these senseless deaths are examples of what not to do as a Police Officer.

Nix I am confused.
Is it about police not sticking to proper protocol and rules of engagement... or about police killing AA people because officers are racists?
It is still a tragedy ether way but everybody need some clarity about what protest is all about.
Is it about sloppy, incompetent police officers or about racially based killing based on deeply rooted racism in all American society?

It's about BOTH!!! I'm so F'n tired of trying to explain this but this is COMPLEX!!! First off there is an element of subconscious racism that can influence interactions between police and AA's. This is a FACT but too many people DOUBT that this is true and so it has gone unaddressed for decades. Some Police Departments have done training to address this but it's not NATIONAL.

If we're going to have so many more interactions between Police in AA Communities they most certainly need to be trained in Racial Sensitivity and observe proper protocol. Too often the only response was to crackdown harder in AA neighborhoods as the only solution. This created a terrible dynamic between AA citizens and Police. The Police turn into an occupying force and are not part of the community. A big part of the problem is that the White community has to see this as just as important or things can't fully improve. That hasn't happened so we continue to have these issues.

nixluva
Posts: 55453
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/9/2017  2:46 AM
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
arkrud wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

TPercy, here is an article that has done the research for you.


https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008392_10214705041962963_7501126303057149593_n.jpg?oh=f12077eb886b0023f7a0daf1f23d63e0&oe=5A7CF59E

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/07/11/america-police-shooting-timeline

http://www.theroot.com/in-case-you-forgot-cops-are-still-killing-black-people-1793597703


The zero accountability stat is worrying to me. It suggests that everytime those officers stood trial, the jury of their peers/ judge got it wrong 99% of the time. The justice system has serious issues...but not issues like that. As for the cops not charged with a crime, it asusmes that when an officer shot someone armed or not, they were already in the wrong.

Also that picture of the people of the people who recieved no conviction is faulty. There was so much context behind all of them and the only one where a blatant miscarrage of justice was found I believe was Castile and the really old lady, and Rekia Boyd(thank the idiot prosecutor for that)

Mike Brown getting choked to death was fair play?
Tamir Rice getting shot to death while playing with a toy gun in he park was fair play?
Freddie passing away in a coma with a fractured spine was fair play?
Trayvon Martin losing his life was fair play?

The events with unarmed men shouldn't have resulted in the loss of their lives.

The exposure forcing even the bump in awareness publicly and even an attempt at accountability is also even new. In the past we would only take the officers word for it. Only due to technology allowing the public to even witness some of these events have allowed any of these cases to even gain traction.

Now why should there be blind credibility? Other then having no choice, why should we blindly believe that the right thing is being done on a regular basis regarding these issues? Based on history what should we pull from to offer blind faith and instant credibility?

Mike Brown was shot to death after attacking 1 cop and charging at another. Even Eric Holder said it would have been absurd to prosecute.

Tamir Rice wasn't the officers fault, it was the whoever put in that call and I hope he gets ****ed because of it.

Looking back I think Freddie Gray deserved better justice. I looked at the judges words in his ruling and he said that failing to put on a seatbelt for those in custody isn't a crime especially since the rule had been put in days before. I disagree with this, if you violate conduct with or without intent you put the lives of those in custody at risk and thus you should face punishment for it. However, the judge wasn't the only one at fault. The prosecutors in that case made a mockery of themselves. Nevertheless, Freddie Grays family got a 6.4 million settlement.

Trayvon Martin got into a really physicall altercation with Zimmerman. Zimmer is a piece of **** but when you have two black eyes, a fractured nose, a multiple lacerations at the back of your head...what the hell are you supposed to do? Looking back, charges probably weren't necessary in the first place.

Eric Gradner not Brown my bad. The choke hold applied wasnt legal. Reguardless if it was, if you are choking someone there is always a time limit until they run out of air and die. There was no need to arrest and brimg him to the station in the first place.

With Rice after it was relayed that there was a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. It was also relayed that it may be a toy gun and it may be a juvenile. They claimed they never received the latter information which is crazy by itself. But if they are reaponding to a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. Why are they putting themselves in direct shooting range of the dude with a gun? They also claimed that they yelled reoeadly for him to drop the gun. Yet were not able to identify that he was a 12 yr old boy before they let of their guns after feeling threatend after putting themselves in a position to be threatens.

The officer who let off the shots also failed the aptitude test to become an officer and Cleveland department didn't do a background check on him.

Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon by the dispatcher. He didnt comply to the officers commands. He initiated the confrontation afyer failing to comply. Then when the officers reach the scene they decide to drug test Trayvon looking for any type of angle to justify his death.

This doesnt even touch on the lying on police reports until video evidence and witnesses testify other words. Or on how a lot of these officers seem to have a lot of past claims of brutality on thier profile.

As for the kneeling. The video visuals seem to have been the last straw. African Americans could have been kneeling for years for the issues in the 70s 80s 90s. Not just from police violence but racial issues in general. Mass incarceration, school funding, uneven wages, predatory lending etc...


I'll give you Eric Garner. I think the grand jury messed up on that one.

Tamir Rice again while I can't speak to the police protocol especially given that the guy wasn't qualified for the job to begin with, the cop couldn't be arrested especially if the shooting made sense.

You stated that Zimmerman initiated confrontation with Martin even though his lawyers said otherwise. Its his word against Zimmermans and given that his injuries were consistent to what Zimmerman described, I wouldn't be surprised if they were inclined to believe Zimmerman.

Nobody cares about factual part. It is all about emotions and impressions.
The reality shows are stepping down from TV screens into the real life.
And you still try to find some rime of reason.
This script is writing itself without the screenwriter.
And The show must go on.


Yep. Facts matter.

What FACTS are you talking about in particular? I'm still getting a vibe that there's some doubt about the necessity and validity of the issues behind the protests.


The facts of those high profile police killings of black people that got national coverage. I fully support the spread of those stories because without Mike Brown and Tamir Rice, who knows whether or not an investigation into their corrupt police departments would have happened or not, but that dosen't change the fact that there was a lot of context behind those unfortunate events

WTF does CONTEXT do for Tamir's mother? That was an atrocious failure to observe proper protocol. In fact a LOT of these shooting are BAD Police work. Let's stop focusing on background issues that aren't the heart of the problem.

Too often the biggest problem is a Cop not maintaining proper protocol when dealing with citizens. My Dad is a retired NYPD Lieutenant. He taught at the Academy later in his career. It's a tough job which is why you must observe proper protocol. Many of these senseless deaths are examples of what not to do as a Police Officer.


And guess what happened? the DOJ report that slammed Cleveland for its poor protocol and now new plans are in the process of being put in place for it. If Tamir Rice's death followed the narrative that that facebook post was getting at his family wouldn't have gotten anything in the settlement, cop wouldn't have been fired and essentially ruined( deservedly) and Cleveland wouldn't have any new police reforms.

I have to take deep breaths when I read your posts cuz Bruh you sound disconnected and naive about the seriousness of this issue. You talk like this is merely a theoretical exercise. I have to ask if you have children. I've got kids and a grandchild, probably more in the future and I have a different level of concern about my children living in this country with this kind of dysfunction.
Not just this issue of course but many more systemic disparities that impact AA lives. Life is hard enough without having to deal with all these additional obstacles.

IMO your take on these issues is dangerous cuz it's exactly that kind of thinking that has led to such a long road to real change. Arkrud loves to tout the specialness of America and of course we love the Freedoms of this country but just don't forget that AA's have NEVER fully enjoyed all the rights, liberties and prospects for success. There's no facet of American life where AA's are doing as well as White Americans after hundreds of years and as I've said that isn't an accident.

Protest are warranted and necessary as they always have been. Stop being more concerned with the methods and be concerned with the reasons for the protests to begin with.

arkrud
Posts: 30750
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
10/9/2017  9:16 AM
nixluva wrote:
arkrud wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
arkrud wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

TPercy, here is an article that has done the research for you.


https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008392_10214705041962963_7501126303057149593_n.jpg?oh=f12077eb886b0023f7a0daf1f23d63e0&oe=5A7CF59E

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/07/11/america-police-shooting-timeline

http://www.theroot.com/in-case-you-forgot-cops-are-still-killing-black-people-1793597703


The zero accountability stat is worrying to me. It suggests that everytime those officers stood trial, the jury of their peers/ judge got it wrong 99% of the time. The justice system has serious issues...but not issues like that. As for the cops not charged with a crime, it asusmes that when an officer shot someone armed or not, they were already in the wrong.

Also that picture of the people of the people who recieved no conviction is faulty. There was so much context behind all of them and the only one where a blatant miscarrage of justice was found I believe was Castile and the really old lady, and Rekia Boyd(thank the idiot prosecutor for that)

Mike Brown getting choked to death was fair play?
Tamir Rice getting shot to death while playing with a toy gun in he park was fair play?
Freddie passing away in a coma with a fractured spine was fair play?
Trayvon Martin losing his life was fair play?

The events with unarmed men shouldn't have resulted in the loss of their lives.

The exposure forcing even the bump in awareness publicly and even an attempt at accountability is also even new. In the past we would only take the officers word for it. Only due to technology allowing the public to even witness some of these events have allowed any of these cases to even gain traction.

Now why should there be blind credibility? Other then having no choice, why should we blindly believe that the right thing is being done on a regular basis regarding these issues? Based on history what should we pull from to offer blind faith and instant credibility?

Mike Brown was shot to death after attacking 1 cop and charging at another. Even Eric Holder said it would have been absurd to prosecute.

Tamir Rice wasn't the officers fault, it was the whoever put in that call and I hope he gets ****ed because of it.

Looking back I think Freddie Gray deserved better justice. I looked at the judges words in his ruling and he said that failing to put on a seatbelt for those in custody isn't a crime especially since the rule had been put in days before. I disagree with this, if you violate conduct with or without intent you put the lives of those in custody at risk and thus you should face punishment for it. However, the judge wasn't the only one at fault. The prosecutors in that case made a mockery of themselves. Nevertheless, Freddie Grays family got a 6.4 million settlement.

Trayvon Martin got into a really physicall altercation with Zimmerman. Zimmer is a piece of **** but when you have two black eyes, a fractured nose, a multiple lacerations at the back of your head...what the hell are you supposed to do? Looking back, charges probably weren't necessary in the first place.

Eric Gradner not Brown my bad. The choke hold applied wasnt legal. Reguardless if it was, if you are choking someone there is always a time limit until they run out of air and die. There was no need to arrest and brimg him to the station in the first place.

With Rice after it was relayed that there was a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. It was also relayed that it may be a toy gun and it may be a juvenile. They claimed they never received the latter information which is crazy by itself. But if they are reaponding to a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. Why are they putting themselves in direct shooting range of the dude with a gun? They also claimed that they yelled reoeadly for him to drop the gun. Yet were not able to identify that he was a 12 yr old boy before they let of their guns after feeling threatend after putting themselves in a position to be threatens.

The officer who let off the shots also failed the aptitude test to become an officer and Cleveland department didn't do a background check on him.

Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon by the dispatcher. He didnt comply to the officers commands. He initiated the confrontation afyer failing to comply. Then when the officers reach the scene they decide to drug test Trayvon looking for any type of angle to justify his death.

This doesnt even touch on the lying on police reports until video evidence and witnesses testify other words. Or on how a lot of these officers seem to have a lot of past claims of brutality on thier profile.

As for the kneeling. The video visuals seem to have been the last straw. African Americans could have been kneeling for years for the issues in the 70s 80s 90s. Not just from police violence but racial issues in general. Mass incarceration, school funding, uneven wages, predatory lending etc...


I'll give you Eric Garner. I think the grand jury messed up on that one.

Tamir Rice again while I can't speak to the police protocol especially given that the guy wasn't qualified for the job to begin with, the cop couldn't be arrested especially if the shooting made sense.

You stated that Zimmerman initiated confrontation with Martin even though his lawyers said otherwise. Its his word against Zimmermans and given that his injuries were consistent to what Zimmerman described, I wouldn't be surprised if they were inclined to believe Zimmerman.

Nobody cares about factual part. It is all about emotions and impressions.
The reality shows are stepping down from TV screens into the real life.
And you still try to find some rime of reason.
This script is writing itself without the screenwriter.
And The show must go on.


Yep. Facts matter.

What FACTS are you talking about in particular? I'm still getting a vibe that there's some doubt about the necessity and validity of the issues behind the protests.


The facts of those high profile police killings of black people that got national coverage. I fully support the spread of those stories because without Mike Brown and Tamir Rice, who knows whether or not an investigation into their corrupt police departments would have happened or not, but that dosen't change the fact that there was a lot of context behind those unfortunate events

WTF does CONTEXT do for Tamir's mother? That was an atrocious failure to observe proper protocol. In fact a LOT of these shooting are BAD Police work. Let's stop focusing on background issues that aren't the heart of the problem.

Too often the biggest problem is a Cop not maintaining proper protocol when dealing with citizens. My Dad is a retired NYPD Lieutenant. He taught at the Academy later in his career. It's a tough job which is why you must observe proper protocol. Many of these senseless deaths are examples of what not to do as a Police Officer.

Nix I am confused.
Is it about police not sticking to proper protocol and rules of engagement... or about police killing AA people because officers are racists?
It is still a tragedy ether way but everybody need some clarity about what protest is all about.
Is it about sloppy, incompetent police officers or about racially based killing based on deeply rooted racism in all American society?

It's about BOTH!!! I'm so F'n tired of trying to explain this but this is COMPLEX!!! First off there is an element of subconscious racism that can influence interactions between police and AA's. This is a FACT but too many people DOUBT that this is true and so it has gone unaddressed for decades. Some Police Departments have done training to address this but it's not NATIONAL.

If we're going to have so many more interactions between Police in AA Communities they most certainly need to be trained in Racial Sensitivity and observe proper protocol. Too often the only response was to crackdown harder in AA neighborhoods as the only solution. This created a terrible dynamic between AA citizens and Police. The Police turn into an occupying force and are not part of the community. A big part of the problem is that the White community has to see this as just as important or things can't fully improve. That hasn't happened so we continue to have these issues.

I agree with you on subconscious racism as it is our human nature, one of the basic instincts we have from our not so ancient tribal past.
The fear of strangers, outsiders, people who looked different.
The progress of human race, every culture, and every individual is to drop this feeling, control the basic instincts using our sense of humanity.
Its a tall task and not every person can do this with the same success.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
nixluva
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10/9/2017  11:43 AM
arkrud wrote:
nixluva wrote:
arkrud wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TPercy wrote:
arkrud wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TPercy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

TPercy, here is an article that has done the research for you.


https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008392_10214705041962963_7501126303057149593_n.jpg?oh=f12077eb886b0023f7a0daf1f23d63e0&oe=5A7CF59E

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/07/11/america-police-shooting-timeline

http://www.theroot.com/in-case-you-forgot-cops-are-still-killing-black-people-1793597703


The zero accountability stat is worrying to me. It suggests that everytime those officers stood trial, the jury of their peers/ judge got it wrong 99% of the time. The justice system has serious issues...but not issues like that. As for the cops not charged with a crime, it asusmes that when an officer shot someone armed or not, they were already in the wrong.

Also that picture of the people of the people who recieved no conviction is faulty. There was so much context behind all of them and the only one where a blatant miscarrage of justice was found I believe was Castile and the really old lady, and Rekia Boyd(thank the idiot prosecutor for that)

Mike Brown getting choked to death was fair play?
Tamir Rice getting shot to death while playing with a toy gun in he park was fair play?
Freddie passing away in a coma with a fractured spine was fair play?
Trayvon Martin losing his life was fair play?

The events with unarmed men shouldn't have resulted in the loss of their lives.

The exposure forcing even the bump in awareness publicly and even an attempt at accountability is also even new. In the past we would only take the officers word for it. Only due to technology allowing the public to even witness some of these events have allowed any of these cases to even gain traction.

Now why should there be blind credibility? Other then having no choice, why should we blindly believe that the right thing is being done on a regular basis regarding these issues? Based on history what should we pull from to offer blind faith and instant credibility?

Mike Brown was shot to death after attacking 1 cop and charging at another. Even Eric Holder said it would have been absurd to prosecute.

Tamir Rice wasn't the officers fault, it was the whoever put in that call and I hope he gets ****ed because of it.

Looking back I think Freddie Gray deserved better justice. I looked at the judges words in his ruling and he said that failing to put on a seatbelt for those in custody isn't a crime especially since the rule had been put in days before. I disagree with this, if you violate conduct with or without intent you put the lives of those in custody at risk and thus you should face punishment for it. However, the judge wasn't the only one at fault. The prosecutors in that case made a mockery of themselves. Nevertheless, Freddie Grays family got a 6.4 million settlement.

Trayvon Martin got into a really physicall altercation with Zimmerman. Zimmer is a piece of **** but when you have two black eyes, a fractured nose, a multiple lacerations at the back of your head...what the hell are you supposed to do? Looking back, charges probably weren't necessary in the first place.

Eric Gradner not Brown my bad. The choke hold applied wasnt legal. Reguardless if it was, if you are choking someone there is always a time limit until they run out of air and die. There was no need to arrest and brimg him to the station in the first place.

With Rice after it was relayed that there was a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. It was also relayed that it may be a toy gun and it may be a juvenile. They claimed they never received the latter information which is crazy by itself. But if they are reaponding to a mad man pointing a gun at everyone. Why are they putting themselves in direct shooting range of the dude with a gun? They also claimed that they yelled reoeadly for him to drop the gun. Yet were not able to identify that he was a 12 yr old boy before they let of their guns after feeling threatend after putting themselves in a position to be threatens.

The officer who let off the shots also failed the aptitude test to become an officer and Cleveland department didn't do a background check on him.

Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon by the dispatcher. He didnt comply to the officers commands. He initiated the confrontation afyer failing to comply. Then when the officers reach the scene they decide to drug test Trayvon looking for any type of angle to justify his death.

This doesnt even touch on the lying on police reports until video evidence and witnesses testify other words. Or on how a lot of these officers seem to have a lot of past claims of brutality on thier profile.

As for the kneeling. The video visuals seem to have been the last straw. African Americans could have been kneeling for years for the issues in the 70s 80s 90s. Not just from police violence but racial issues in general. Mass incarceration, school funding, uneven wages, predatory lending etc...


I'll give you Eric Garner. I think the grand jury messed up on that one.

Tamir Rice again while I can't speak to the police protocol especially given that the guy wasn't qualified for the job to begin with, the cop couldn't be arrested especially if the shooting made sense.

You stated that Zimmerman initiated confrontation with Martin even though his lawyers said otherwise. Its his word against Zimmermans and given that his injuries were consistent to what Zimmerman described, I wouldn't be surprised if they were inclined to believe Zimmerman.

Nobody cares about factual part. It is all about emotions and impressions.
The reality shows are stepping down from TV screens into the real life.
And you still try to find some rime of reason.
This script is writing itself without the screenwriter.
And The show must go on.


Yep. Facts matter.

What FACTS are you talking about in particular? I'm still getting a vibe that there's some doubt about the necessity and validity of the issues behind the protests.


The facts of those high profile police killings of black people that got national coverage. I fully support the spread of those stories because without Mike Brown and Tamir Rice, who knows whether or not an investigation into their corrupt police departments would have happened or not, but that dosen't change the fact that there was a lot of context behind those unfortunate events

WTF does CONTEXT do for Tamir's mother? That was an atrocious failure to observe proper protocol. In fact a LOT of these shooting are BAD Police work. Let's stop focusing on background issues that aren't the heart of the problem.

Too often the biggest problem is a Cop not maintaining proper protocol when dealing with citizens. My Dad is a retired NYPD Lieutenant. He taught at the Academy later in his career. It's a tough job which is why you must observe proper protocol. Many of these senseless deaths are examples of what not to do as a Police Officer.

Nix I am confused.
Is it about police not sticking to proper protocol and rules of engagement... or about police killing AA people because officers are racists?
It is still a tragedy ether way but everybody need some clarity about what protest is all about.
Is it about sloppy, incompetent police officers or about racially based killing based on deeply rooted racism in all American society?

It's about BOTH!!! I'm so F'n tired of trying to explain this but this is COMPLEX!!! First off there is an element of subconscious racism that can influence interactions between police and AA's. This is a FACT but too many people DOUBT that this is true and so it has gone unaddressed for decades. Some Police Departments have done training to address this but it's not NATIONAL.

If we're going to have so many more interactions between Police in AA Communities they most certainly need to be trained in Racial Sensitivity and observe proper protocol. Too often the only response was to crackdown harder in AA neighborhoods as the only solution. This created a terrible dynamic between AA citizens and Police. The Police turn into an occupying force and are not part of the community. A big part of the problem is that the White community has to see this as just as important or things can't fully improve. That hasn't happened so we continue to have these issues.

I agree with you on subconscious racism as it is our human nature, one of the basic instincts we have from our not so ancient tribal past.
The fear of strangers, outsiders, people who looked different.
The progress of human race, every culture, and every individual is to drop this feeling, control the basic instincts using our sense of humanity.
Its a tall task and not every person can do this with the same success.

Kids don't have this problem! It's taught by adults and society. The answer is to have Racial Sensitivity Training and Community Policing were Officers get to know the people in their community. This humanizes the interactions and makes them more comfortable for both Citizens and Officers.

The problem is that there isn't any consistency with Best Practices across the country and so this problem persists. Protests are meant to highlight this issue and bring about change. This isn't an unknowable problem. Some Police Departments have made dramatic improvement on these issues because they took proactive steps.

TheGame
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10/10/2017  4:49 PM
Now the NFL is talking about prohibiting players from kneeling during the anthem. This is why I said the whole kneeling thing was an unwise move because if the NFL follows through it will appear as. If Trump won.
Playoffs or bust
newyorknewyork
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10/10/2017  5:09 PM
TheGame wrote:Now the NFL is talking about prohibiting players from kneeling during the anthem. This is why I said the whole kneeling thing was an unwise move because if the NFL follows through it will appear as. If Trump won.

The kneeling has already accomplished something necessary. It has ignited a lot more people who are making a decent amount of money to become a lot more involved in socially. And I don't think that goes away if standing becomes mandatory.

TheGame
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10/10/2017  5:19 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
TheGame wrote:Now the NFL is talking about prohibiting players from kneeling during the anthem. This is why I said the whole kneeling thing was an unwise move because if the NFL follows through it will appear as. If Trump won.

The kneeling has already accomplished something necessary. It has ignited a lot more people who are making a decent amount of money to become a lot more involved in socially. And I don't think that goes away if standing becomes mandatory.

I agree. My point is that the players should have done what kaepernick did and realized it could not be a permenant thing. But it was useful and the players should look to some new form of protest that Trump cannot twist into a protest about the flag or troops.

Playoffs or bust
Knickoftime
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10/10/2017  5:29 PM
TheGame wrote:Now the NFL is talking about prohibiting players from kneeling during the anthem. This is why I said the whole kneeling thing was an unwise move because if the NFL follows through it will appear as. If Trump won.

The NFL can't do that.

TheGame
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10/10/2017  6:08 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
TheGame wrote:Now the NFL is talking about prohibiting players from kneeling during the anthem. This is why I said the whole kneeling thing was an unwise move because if the NFL follows through it will appear as. If Trump won.

The NFL can't do that.

Yes, they can. They cannot put you in jail for not standing but your employer can make it a requirement that you stand.

Playoffs or bust
Knickoftime
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10/10/2017  6:19 PM
TheGame wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
TheGame wrote:Now the NFL is talking about prohibiting players from kneeling during the anthem. This is why I said the whole kneeling thing was an unwise move because if the NFL follows through it will appear as. If Trump won.

The NFL can't do that.

Yes, they can. They cannot put you in jail for not standing but your employer can make it a requirement that you stand.

And it's two minutes before game time and a large group of players on both sides do it anyway? Then what?

You think you NFL is going to start canceling games?

newyorknewyork
Posts: 27214
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10/10/2017  6:33 PM
TheGame wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TheGame wrote:Now the NFL is talking about prohibiting players from kneeling during the anthem. This is why I said the whole kneeling thing was an unwise move because if the NFL follows through it will appear as. If Trump won.

The kneeling has already accomplished something necessary. It has ignited a lot more people who are making a decent amount of money to become a lot more involved in socially. And I don't think that goes away if standing becomes mandatory.

I agree. My point is that the players should have done what kaepernick did and realized it could not be a permenant thing. But it was useful and the players should look to some new form of protest that Trump cannot twist into a protest about the flag or troops.

Kneeling was an organic thing that picked up steam. The issue of kneeling was actually dying down and behind the scenes nfl and players were working out progressive compromise for everyone. One of the compromises brought up was the NFL presenting a social awareness month. Though players were skeptical about regulating voicing social issues to a month. But dialog was taking place and compromises were getting discussed. Then Trump decided to start tweeting about it in order to cause diversion and division. Since he has so much heat on him for Russia, his daughter and son in laws scandals, Puerto Rico, His donors getting impatient etc etc etc. So getting his backers something to rally around him for was necessary.

nixluva
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10/10/2017  6:55 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
TheGame wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
TheGame wrote:Now the NFL is talking about prohibiting players from kneeling during the anthem. This is why I said the whole kneeling thing was an unwise move because if the NFL follows through it will appear as. If Trump won.

The kneeling has already accomplished something necessary. It has ignited a lot more people who are making a decent amount of money to become a lot more involved in socially. And I don't think that goes away if standing becomes mandatory.

I agree. My point is that the players should have done what kaepernick did and realized it could not be a permenant thing. But it was useful and the players should look to some new form of protest that Trump cannot twist into a protest about the flag or troops.

Kneeling was an organic thing that picked up steam. The issue of kneeling was actually dying down and behind the scenes nfl and players were working out progressive compromise for everyone. One of the compromises brought up was the NFL presenting a social awareness month. Though players were skeptical about regulating voicing social issues to a month. But dialog was taking place and compromises were getting discussed. Then Trump decided to start tweeting about it in order to cause diversion and division. Since he has so much heat on him for Russia, his daughter and son in laws scandals, Puerto Rico, His donors getting impatient etc etc etc. So getting his backers something to rally around him for was necessary.

BRAVO 👏🏾 This is the real story that keeps getting lost. Trump is a very Craven and unscrupulous individual and he looks for issues that can create diversions and serve to ignite his base with Culture Wars over racial issues.

martin
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10/10/2017  7:10 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
TheGame wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
TheGame wrote:Now the NFL is talking about prohibiting players from kneeling during the anthem. This is why I said the whole kneeling thing was an unwise move because if the NFL follows through it will appear as. If Trump won.

The NFL can't do that.

Yes, they can. They cannot put you in jail for not standing but your employer can make it a requirement that you stand.

And it's two minutes before game time and a large group of players on both sides do it anyway? Then what?

You think you NFL is going to start canceling games?

I guess they could fine players, right? Same as NBA?

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