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Day after yesterday: What are your thoughts after our first pre-season game?
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EnySpree
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10/4/2017  11:16 AM
I'm just so excited seeing most of these guys for the first time so intimately....

My eyes were wide open to the potential of alot of guys. Frank is the real deal. We jyst gotta be patient. Let him be a kid he's only 19. He's gonna be good. Kanter is trouble. He's gonna score or get fouled. He's a live body too. I love it. THJr seems like he's ready for prime time. He looked professional. McDermott had me jump outta my seat on that dunk. Sessions is a good player man. I enjoyed everything about him.

I'm feeling good. I have more to say but I just wanted to open the floor for the day after opinions

You know why I'm here....
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arkrud
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10/4/2017  11:29 AM
A lot of interesting and promising pieces.
No team yet.
Possibilities are endless and Horny will be tested big time to somehow select the best group.
Good problem to have. But a lot of work to do.
He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
nixluva
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10/4/2017  11:51 AM
Ntilikina was a revelation even with his obvious youth and some nerves. He has a true PG mentality and he makes an immediate IMPACT. Just imagine this kid as he gets more comfortable and adjusts to the speed of the game.

I actually like the way McDermott fits with the starters. He MOVES and of course spreads the floor. This could be a perfect spot for him to reach his potential.

THJ looked fast and explosive. I think he's ready for a big time role. He got a bit excited but we're gonna need him to be a one of the primary starters.

I can't say that I saw any HORNS sets or UCLA stuff Jeff has used before. I need to see more and take a closer look to be sure. It looked like a very basic offense to start and maybe he adds more as we move along.

technomaster
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10/4/2017  11:58 AM
I think the best lineup for this team will likely be:

PG: Sessions/Jack/Baker
SG: Ntilikina
SF: TH Jr
PF: KP
C: Kanter

Two main challenges for this team:
1) Playmakers (or lack of them): beyond our point guards, we don't really have players that naturally distribute the ball. We have a lot of scorers/shooters in the other positions, not playmakers. I was thinking back to the Texas teams in their (Duncan/Nowitzki) heyday about a decade ago. They had Ginobili and Finley respectively who were elite playmakers capable of leading the offense from the wing positions. The Knicks don't have any wings with the playmaking gene at the moment. This team will rely heavily on the system to create scoring opportunities. The burden will be on the PGs to set the stage and move the ball.

2) Defenders (or lack of them): I don't think we have any established guys that send fear to opponents. Yeah, vintage Artest/Tony Allen/Bruce Bowen types are few and far between, but we don't have that yet - Ntilikina will help a lot defensively and has that type of potential. A vintage Noah would help too.

Other notes:
Ntilikina looks like he'll be at worst a rotation player in the NBA. Not sure about his ceiling. Reminded me a bit of Darrell Walker the way he moved out there. Really long.
Hardaway Jr is going to lead this team in scorer. This guy is not shy about taking shots.
Kanter is unstoppable - elite scoring potential. Moves well without the ball and exceptional in isolation situations. Zeller was overmatched badly.
Willie is solid too, but I think he's at his best in pick and roll situations or in motion.
Artis plays out of control, I don't see him making the team. Needs more polish.
Beasley is a nut job. Something about this dude isn't right. I think he'll be a distraction to everyone. Kind of like Dennis Rodman, without the proven ability to put up big numbers or be part of a winning team.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
anrst
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10/4/2017  12:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/4/2017  12:13 PM
We will lose a lot, and I love this team.

Dotson was intriguing to me. from what i saw of the game, i didn't see him really do anything. but he looked like he belongs and could turn into a strong defender. yes, i know that's about the most half-baked thing anyone can say.

Frank is awesome. Needs to be more selfish, and his timing with Kanter was a bit slow.

Oh, and KP looked nasty. Strong and skilled. He's not Fkin around.

A lot of this is on Hornacek. In his postgame he seemed pretty enthused and it sounded like he know's he's got an eager bunch. Plus, i heard a lot of players making same comments as Jeff was, so they seem to be buying in on him.

KP4Life
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10/4/2017  1:17 PM
Frank needs experience, but the potential is def there. I think at worst he can be our 3 and D guard in the future. And that's at the absolute worst case scanario. Hes a pass first point guard for sure, I feel like we haven't really had that since like Prigioni.

Timmy looked great, he's gonna be a good number 2 option. I think he will live up to his contract.

It was weird seeing KP as the number 1 option. I kept thinking Beasely was Melo LOL.

KP looked good, that crossover was nuts. His handles have def improved. He's a little stronger, but I still think he will never be a bruising big in the post. He just doesn't have that body type, which is fine. He's pretty much like an oversize SF at this point.

Kanter is a strong guy and it shows, his post game is very old school. If he just developed an outside shot he'd be insane, his defense is still horrible. I'm not sure he will ever get it, it's almost like he doesn't have the bball IQ for it.

McDermott is SNEAKY athletic. He honestly kinda reminds me of Derrick Williams a bit, a better shooter though of course.

Our Team Defense was horrible, I'm def predicting a top 5 pick this year. Hopefully Dolan doesn't panic and demand a trade for a bs star. But I think it wont happen this time, unless he's an idiot.

newyorker4ever
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10/4/2017  1:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/4/2017  1:31 PM
My thoughts are.....keep an eye on D.Dotson. I really like this kid but am nervous that he isn't gonna get floor time cause we have so many guys that are good enough and deserving of floor time before a 2nd round rookie is. I really really like him though and that's not only his 3 point shooting but his defense as well.
Nalod
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10/4/2017  1:45 PM
If you can't see it, you won't believe it.
Sabonis young:

Sabonis the Blazer:

KP will thicken. It will happen.

Anger sells, don't buy!
KP4Life
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10/4/2017  1:51 PM
Nalod wrote:If you can't see it, you won't believe it.
Sabonis young:

Sabonis the Blazer:

KP will thicken. It will happen.

That is pretty amazing, but even in his before picture he looked pretty wirey. He was somewhat muscular even there. When KP first came into the league he had like 0 muscle basically.

fishmike
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10/4/2017  1:58 PM
anrst wrote:We will lose a lot, and I love this team.

Dotson was intriguing to me. from what i saw of the game, i didn't see him really do anything. but he looked like he belongs and could turn into a strong defender. yes, i know that's about the most half-baked thing anyone can say.

Frank is awesome. Needs to be more selfish, and his timing with Kanter was a bit slow.

Oh, and KP looked nasty. Strong and skilled. He's not Fkin around.

A lot of this is on Hornacek. In his postgame he seemed pretty enthused and it sounded like he know's he's got an eager bunch. Plus, i heard a lot of players making same comments as Jeff was, so they seem to be buying in on him.

No.. Dotson was part of a nice run late in the game, and indeed he finished +7. He's my darkhorse to break into the rotation. Maybe not right away but after a trade or injury or later in the year he's going to step in and play well.

He's strong and athletic. Seems to have a good handle and is a ball mover. I think this is definitely a case where we got first round talent in round 2 because of his past, but considering how he handled it its almost a positive at this point.

I dont know how many games we win but I am good with this crew. I think first Phil with the draft and Perry with the trade and THjr signing they did a great job getting as young as they did. Now the coach seems to be doing his thing and the players looked good.

Many seem to be focused on KP being the man. I like KP plenty, but I am more about this young core of KP/Willy/Kanter/Dotson/Frank/THjr. I think those are 6 guys who can be Knicks and part of a good team for the next 8-10 years. Just dont starphuck and trade picks. They wont all make it but this feels like a crew I can grow with. I probably felt that way about Lee/Nate/Gallo/Chander/Douglas but Ive killed too many braincells and dont remember. I also think this crew has more upside.

fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
nixluva
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10/4/2017  2:13 PM
fishmike wrote:
anrst wrote:We will lose a lot, and I love this team.

Dotson was intriguing to me. from what i saw of the game, i didn't see him really do anything. but he looked like he belongs and could turn into a strong defender. yes, i know that's about the most half-baked thing anyone can say.

Frank is awesome. Needs to be more selfish, and his timing with Kanter was a bit slow.

Oh, and KP looked nasty. Strong and skilled. He's not Fkin around.

A lot of this is on Hornacek. In his postgame he seemed pretty enthused and it sounded like he know's he's got an eager bunch. Plus, i heard a lot of players making same comments as Jeff was, so they seem to be buying in on him.

No.. Dotson was part of a nice run late in the game, and indeed he finished +7. He's my darkhorse to break into the rotation. Maybe not right away but after a trade or injury or later in the year he's going to step in and play well.

He's strong and athletic. Seems to have a good handle and is a ball mover. I think this is definitely a case where we got first round talent in round 2 because of his past, but considering how he handled it its almost a positive at this point.

I dont know how many games we win but I am good with this crew. I think first Phil with the draft and Perry with the trade and THjr signing they did a great job getting as young as they did. Now the coach seems to be doing his thing and the players looked good.

Many seem to be focused on KP being the man. I like KP plenty, but I am more about this young core of KP/Willy/Kanter/Dotson/Frank/THjr. I think those are 6 guys who can be Knicks and part of a good team for the next 8-10 years. Just dont starphuck and trade picks. They wont all make it but this feels like a crew I can grow with. I probably felt that way about Lee/Nate/Gallo/Chander/Douglas but Ive killed too many braincells and dont remember. I also think this crew has more upside.

Yeah Dotson kind of gets overlooked but make no mistake he has legit 2 Way talent. I like his potential for this roster.

I agree with you about the quality of talent in this young core! These kids can play but need time to put it all together and gain confidence. They were more connected on D at the start of the game but lost it as the experimental rotations came in. That should calm down over time.

EnySpree
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10/4/2017  2:21 PM
Horny doesn't like to run plays his first game in pre season. He did the same **** last year. That's why guys looked lax at times. Brooklyn was in mid season form. This guy Acy was talking smack to the crowd lol. Like calm down duke.

What you guys see from Willy? I thought he was rather lack luster. He seems more professional about his business but outside of that he was a bench guy to me. Still a good player but I'm not comfortable that we can win with him playing heavy minutes. Kanter to me is the better player. Just from the eye test and their action on the court. Willy is just there. Kanter is making things happen

You know why I'm here....
fishmike
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10/4/2017  2:27 PM
EnySpree wrote:Horny doesn't like to run plays his first game in pre season. He did the same **** last year. That's why guys looked lax at times. Brooklyn was in mid season form. This guy Acy was talking smack to the crowd lol. Like calm down duke.

What you guys see from Willy? I thought he was rather lack luster. He seems more professional about his business but outside of that he was a bench guy to me. Still a good player but I'm not comfortable that we can win with him playing heavy minutes. Kanter to me is the better player. Just from the eye test and their action on the court. Willy is just there. Kanter is making things happen

Willy wasnt good last night, but I rank him higher than Kanter. Both are good. I Kanter is a bull dozer and scorer. Willy will move the ball more and be more involved in the offense. Willy sets bruising picks and is a vacuum on the boards. Kanter has a ton more experience than Willy and has 3-4 years at least also. I dont see any skill Kanter has that Willy cant or wont develop. Also once he goes into his moves you KNOW that shot is going up. Willy will at least hit an open guard. Time will tell and having both isnt a bad thing.
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nixluva
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10/4/2017  2:32 PM
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Horny doesn't like to run plays his first game in pre season. He did the same **** last year. That's why guys looked lax at times. Brooklyn was in mid season form. This guy Acy was talking smack to the crowd lol. Like calm down duke.

What you guys see from Willy? I thought he was rather lack luster. He seems more professional about his business but outside of that he was a bench guy to me. Still a good player but I'm not comfortable that we can win with him playing heavy minutes. Kanter to me is the better player. Just from the eye test and their action on the court. Willy is just there. Kanter is making things happen

Willy wasnt good last night, but I rank him higher than Kanter. Both are good. I Kanter is a bull dozer and scorer. Willy will move the ball more and be more involved in the offense. Willy sets bruising picks and is a vacuum on the boards. Kanter has a ton more experience than Willy and has 3-4 years at least also. I dont see any skill Kanter has that Willy cant or wont develop. Also once he goes into his moves you KNOW that shot is going up. Willy will at least hit an open guard. Time will tell and having both isnt a bad thing.

I am TOTALLY fine with keeping both Willy and Kanter. They're similar but different enough that you can do different things. We know Willy can ball. Not gonna fret after one preseason game. I think the Knicks are going to pound teams with the Big Men this year.

Papabear
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10/4/2017  2:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/4/2017  2:50 PM
Papabear Says

I see some of the old bad habits with this unit. They are slow a split second too late. They can't as a team shoot. the way I see it is no number 1 draft pick can't save this team. It will take years. I'm a lot older than some of you guys and I am tired of waiting for us to go to the finals. I watched some of the other games last night and those players are dead eye shooters and that's what we don't have. Now I'm a knicks die hard, but I don't want to die waiting for the knicks to get a ring. HOW FREAKING LONG WILL IT TAKE?? I'VE REACHED MY 70s AND STILL WAITING. DAMN I'M GETTING SICK OF THIS EVERY YEAR JUST WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR.

Papabear
SupremeCommander
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10/4/2017  2:50 PM
my thoughts are (1) I'm excited for the future and (2) I'm excited that this team looks poised to draft Doncic
Jimmy D w/o a straight shot said: In two hours, [Jackson] taught me basketball, and I learned I know nothing about basketball
nychamp
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10/4/2017  3:07 PM
* Dotson looked good. If he can defend, I think he can be in the rotation. It appears he can board, defend and obviously is a shooter.

* All signs point to Frank being an excellent pick. Moves a bit like Derek Harper or even Clyde Drexler. If at 19 he's this comfortable, he could really be good down the road.

* Defense looks to be atrocious, again. This I think will continue to be the biggest problem with the team, that will sabotage many otherwise winnable games. I hope to be proven wrong.

* Looking forward to whatever progress comes from KP, I'm sure there'll be some. I hope at least part of it has to do with maximally exploiting size mismatches by working down low more frequently. Not necessarily long, drawn-out post ups, but quick moves over people from short distance. I hope he eliminates some of the "jack-it-up whenever/wherever" game he seemed to favor over and over last year in Melo's shadow.

* THJr did look ready to become a main guy, shot looks good, speed and explosiveness. Please play D!

fishmike
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10/4/2017  3:10 PM
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I see some of the old bad habits with this unit. They are slow a split second too late. They can't as a team shoot. the way I see it is no number 1 draft pick can't save this team. It will take years. I'm a lot older than some of you guys and I am tired of waiting for us to go to the finals. I watched some of the other games last night and those players are dead eye shooters and that's what we don't have. Now I'm a knicks die hard, but I don't want to die waiting for the knicks to get a ring. HOW FREAKING LONG WILL IT TAKE?? I'VE REACHED MY 70s AND STILL WAITING. DAMN I'M GETTING SICK OF THIS EVERY YEAR JUST WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR.

One preseason game and you think they can shoot? Did you watch? Knicks shot 40% from downtown. Thats fantastic. Their %s stunk because they missed a ton of close shots.
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BigDaddyG
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10/4/2017  3:10 PM
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Horny doesn't like to run plays his first game in pre season. He did the same **** last year. That's why guys looked lax at times. Brooklyn was in mid season form. This guy Acy was talking smack to the crowd lol. Like calm down duke.

What you guys see from Willy? I thought he was rather lack luster. He seems more professional about his business but outside of that he was a bench guy to me. Still a good player but I'm not comfortable that we can win with him playing heavy minutes. Kanter to me is the better player. Just from the eye test and their action on the court. Willy is just there. Kanter is making things happen

Willy wasnt good last night, but I rank him higher than Kanter. Both are good. I Kanter is a bull dozer and scorer. Willy will move the ball more and be more involved in the offense. Willy sets bruising picks and is a vacuum on the boards. Kanter has a ton more experience than Willy and has 3-4 years at least also. I dont see any skill Kanter has that Willy cant or wont develop. Also once he goes into his moves you KNOW that shot is going up. Willy will at least hit an open guard. Time will tell and having both isnt a bad thing.

I am TOTALLY fine with keeping both Willy and Kanter. They're similar but different enough that you can do different things. We know Willy can ball. Not gonna fret after one preseason game. I think the Knicks are going to pound teams with the Big Men this year.

One thing I liked from Willy was his activity on D. He still needs to work on poistioning, but he moved his feet and was quick meeting his defender at the paint. Bea's was trash, but he showed a willingness to pass. Hopefully more of these pass make it to his teammates and not the opposing team. Kanter impressed on offense but he reminded of Eddie Curry in that once the ball goes in, it ain't coming back out. Frank's passes could be a bit crisper, but he finds guys in scoring positions. It wasn't the Derrick Rose assist where he passes only when his shot isn't there. Lee and Frenchy also got a lot of deflections and played the passing lanes well. Curious to see what happens when Baker gets throw into the mix. KOQ was solid as always. I liked THJs physicality going to the hole. He's now able to take the bump and power through. XRM still needs to adjust to the speed of the game, but I like him as a developmental player in the G-League. On a side note, not sure how Carroll has left. Hollis should start for the Nets.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Nalod
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10/4/2017  3:15 PM
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I see some of the old bad habits with this unit. They are slow a split second too late. They can't as a team shoot. the way I see it is no number 1 draft pick can't save this team. It will take years. I'm a lot older than some of you guys and I am tired of waiting for us to go to the finals. I watched some of the other games last night and those players are dead eye shooters and that's what we don't have. Now I'm a knicks die hard, but I don't want to die waiting for the knicks to get a ring. HOW FREAKING LONG WILL IT TAKE?? I'VE REACHED MY 70s AND STILL WAITING. DAMN I'M GETTING SICK OF THIS EVERY YEAR JUST WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR.

LOL, You even older than me!!!! By 15-20 years!!!
There is no "Old Habits" with this group. There are plenty of new faces.
That said, "Be patient" might not resonate, but "YO, BE COOL!" Might.
No matter who to blame, what the history is, its a rebuild. Young team and an even younger core. Never going to get there without doing what we are doing.
Not saying we don't trade up the timeline perhaps some, but you need assets and we are farming our own for now.
I suppose "how long will it freaking take" has different meaning. You at least got yours in the 70's with Clyde. For some, "A LIFETIME" is the answer!!
I pray you see one more chip before you go to the big "hit the open man" in the sky!!!

Anger sells, don't buy!
Day after yesterday: What are your thoughts after our first pre-season game?

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