BasketballJones wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Rebuilding=Meaningless=insignificant in the media world.

Think real fans know its a 3-5 years before we should expect anything. Non-fans have nothing to talk/criticize about.

But it's like one of those (heard it all before) kind of cases.

Everyone comes in here with a plan that looks and sounds great. It's going to take Isaiah 2 to 3 yrs, its going to take walsh 2 to 3 yrs, it's going to take phil 2 to 3 yrs, and now it's going to take mills 2 to 3 yrs.

whats the difference in dolan not being involved in the day to day, or hiring incompetent people (then hits the road with his band) and they run the franchise into the joke of the league, The results have been bad either way.

People are going to get over THJ, and Noahs contract when the produce wins, when the see real progress, not talk.

Yep. Agree we are back to the drawing board and that it is yet to be seen if we dont F things up again.

But it is what it is. No choice but to see what happens and hope.

Why are you guys acting like we haven't already started the process of Rebuilding? The core of whatever this team is going to be has already started to be put together but some fans and media speak as if this team didn't draft some significant talent the last 3 years.

The Melo Trade pushed that process into the next stage. Now we have to let the team grow and develop. Why are you complaining about how long that process can take??? Young players that are in their Pre Prime years need time to develop. This is always the case.

You not understanding how this looks. When walsh came in, cleared the books of bad contracts, drafted Danilo, kept chandler, got Amare, kept his draft picks, got a young prime felton, and Tyson, it all look so promising. We had young roster with a All star in his prime to carry most of the load, and look what happen.

It's great that we have young talent, but so did Isaiah and Walsh, and to be honest nobody is complaining, it's just we saw this same exact start up before with other Front office personal.

Right. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Just wait till Dolan gets impatient. He'll trade all the youths and the picks (if we have any?) for some washed up and deeply flawed vets.

We already signed those.

wilson chandler and mozgov and danillo aren't close to porzingis ... and amare was fools gold anywAy.

knicks1248 wrote:

anrst wrote:this is nothing like the youth movement that coincided with amare

wilson chandler and mozgov and danillo aren't close to porzingis ... and amare was fools gold anywAy.

the only thing that seperates danilo and KP, is height, and a couple of block shots..

One is a Rooster and the other is a Unicorn.

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

anrst wrote:this is nothing like the youth movement that coincided with amare

wilson chandler and mozgov and danillo aren't close to porzingis ... and amare was fools gold anywAy.

the only thing that seperates danilo and KP, is height, and a couple of block shots..

I don't understand your point here. You can say that about any player. 2 players who are similar except for a couple of major factors like height and defensive ability can be the difference between a role player and a superstar. What if Durant was 6'5 instead of 6'10. Or LeBron 6'3 instead of 6'8?

Durant would be Hardaway, and Lebron would be Westbrook

Cartman718 wrote:did anyone hear kahn and wally ripping on KP

yea... it was kinda funny ... and they were kinda right ... what was KP, a minus 20? How the F that happen?

Gallo? we still talkin' bout Gallo?

anrst wrote:Ok... well ... now i'm concerned we are going to be embarrassingly bad

im fine with being bad, but we look like a joke this preseason

everyone is hurt.

team looks like it's not coached at all

how are these young kids gonna develop in an environment of incompetency.

I was happy after game one ... i slowly walked toward the ledge... and now im off it... mid-season form.

The first step is to get everyone healthy! Then they need time to develop chemistry and a set rotation. They're gonna lose games as this is happening but we need to see progress as the season moves along. The goal is to get to a point where this team is competitive and to win games against teams on their level. Gotta start somewhere. This is still a rebuild and development process.

anrst wrote:Ok... well ... now i'm concerned we are going to be embarrassingly bad

im fine with being bad, but we look like a joke this preseason

everyone is hurt.

team looks like it's not coached at all

how are these young kids gonna develop in an environment of incompetency.

I was happy after game one ... i slowly walked toward the ledge... and now im off it... mid-season form.

Don't worry, we're young and athletic! We're uhhhh, going to concentrate on defense and effort! Even if we don't actually play in games!
Embrace the tank!

fishmike wrote:

anrst wrote:i have PTSD from seeing so many young players have their growth stunted in our organization

Fields
Nate
Lee
Curry
Galloway
Shumpert
Ariza
Z Bo
Crawford

this list is silly. Also Curry grew a ton while he was here

how about you put a list together of the players we drafted(in the last 15 yrs) and develop, that went on to help us become a better team.

I would love to see that list.

especially since you said under our watch and development program, CURRY grew A tON, which sounds about right

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

anrst wrote:i have PTSD from seeing so many young players have their growth stunted in our organization

Fields
Nate
Lee
Curry
Galloway
Shumpert
Ariza
Z Bo
Crawford

this list is silly. Also Curry grew a ton while he was here

how about you put a list together of the players we drafted(in the last 15 yrs) and develop, that went on to help us become a better team.

I would love to see that list.

especially since you said under our watch and development program, CURRY grew A tON, which sounds about right

I am pretty sure he was talking about Curry's weight.

None of these players listed had their growth stunted from coming to NY though. Only case that could be made from this list is Z Bo.

Fields was a 2nd round pick who odds were against him to even make the team. Lee developed into a border line alstar as the last pick in the first round. Nate was the same instant offense player his whole career. Galloway wasn't drafted yet came up through the Knicks G-league. Ariza was a 2nd round draft pick who was traded his sophomore season. Crawford was the same player his whole career with Bulls, Knicks, Hawks, Clippers. Shumpert has regressed in Cleveland.

Knicks mostly traded away draft picks to win now. None of these players listed were high lotto picks drafted by the Knicks with enormous talent that we failed to develop.

Lee, Fields and Galloway all started with the Knicks and got paid by other teams. Not sure how that shows their growth was stunted. They all were given big contracts immediately after the Knicks. One might say Knicks got them paid.

There can be ZERO DEBATE that the Knicks have been a terrible frachise in developing, drafting, really anything to do with young players. Phil signaled the start of that change. We started using the draft and focusing on younger players rather than old vets to plug holes.

Knicks have a long way to go but the last few years moves certainly point to drafting and getting younger. Continuity was not something Phil brought though... we will see with Perry

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

anrst wrote:i have PTSD from seeing so many young players have their growth stunted in our organization

Fields
Nate
Lee
Curry
Galloway
Shumpert
Ariza
Z Bo
Crawford

this list is silly. Also Curry grew a ton while he was here

how about you put a list together of the players we drafted(in the last 15 yrs) and develop, that went on to help us become a better team.

I would love to see that list.

especially since you said under our watch and development program, CURRY grew A tON, which sounds about right

I am pretty sure he was talking about Curry's weight.

None of these players listed had their growth stunted from coming to NY though. Only case that could be made from this list is Z Bo.

Fields was a 2nd round pick who odds were against him to even make the team. Lee developed into a border line alstar as the last pick in the first round. Nate was the same instant offense player his whole career. Galloway wasn't drafted yet came up through the Knicks G-league. Ariza was a 2nd round draft pick who was traded his sophomore season. Crawford was the same player his whole career with Bulls, Knicks, Hawks, Clippers. Shumpert has regressed in Cleveland.

Knicks mostly traded away draft picks to win now. None of these players listed were high lotto picks drafted by the Knicks with enormous talent that we failed to develop.

I was talking about Curry getting fat. Its still a silly list. Ariza was a bad loss. ZBo and Crawford? I mean that team under MDA was at least interesting.

Lee, Fields and Galloway all started with the Knicks and got paid by other teams. Not sure how that shows their growth was stunted. They all were given big contracts immediately after the Knicks. One might say Knicks got them paid.

There can be ZERO DEBATE that the Knicks have been a terrible frachise in developing, drafting, really anything to do with young players. Phil signaled the start of that change. We started using the draft and focusing on younger players rather than old vets to plug holes.

Knicks have a long way to go but the last few years moves certainly point to drafting and getting younger. Continuity was not something Phil brought though... we will see with Perry

Ok, I can agree with most, but were falling into the same trap, developing players in a losing culture which forces you to trade for win now players after a while.

If frank, Dotson, and kp do well, and we start winning then were on to something special.

If we are losing, that would clearly mean they are not playing well, and it calls for change in direction, and you started trading the kids your developing for win now players, and thats always going to be the case

Which has usually leads to more losing.

Knicks have all their draft picks going forward, and they will have a good amount of cap space in 2 years. Knicks shouldn't look to trade young pieces for win now players regardless if they lose or not. But look to add as much talent as possible to add on top of the young pieces they have over the next 3 seasons.

John Wall and the Wizard among other talented players didn't make the playoffs until his 4th yr in the league while Washington added Beal and Porter from the lottery. They had cap space last yr as well but spent it on Mahinni. Now Wall is in his prime has some good talent with him. If they are able to package Oubre and Gortat and maybe a future draft pick for a 4th player possibly a big man(maybe Cousins). Maybe they can find themselves in the finals.

But it took them 4 yrs from drafting Wall to build up to where they are. Withstanding the losing.