HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Rebuilding=Meaningless=insignificant in the media world.

Think real fans know its a 3-5 years before we should expect anything. Non-fans have nothing to talk/criticize about.

But it's like one of those (heard it all before) kind of cases.

Everyone comes in here with a plan that looks and sounds great. It's going to take Isaiah 2 to 3 yrs, its going to take walsh 2 to 3 yrs, it's going to take phil 2 to 3 yrs, and now it's going to take mills 2 to 3 yrs.

whats the difference in dolan not being involved in the day to day, or hiring incompetent people (then hits the road with his band) and they run the franchise into the joke of the league, The results have been bad either way.

People are going to get over THJ, and Noahs contract when the produce wins, when the see real progress, not talk.

Yep. Agree we are back to the drawing board and that it is yet to be seen if we dont F things up again.

But it is what it is. No choice but to see what happens and hope.

Why are you guys acting like we haven't already started the process of Rebuilding? The core of whatever this team is going to be has already started to be put together but some fans and media speak as if this team didn't draft some significant talent the last 3 years.

The Melo Trade pushed that process into the next stage. Now we have to let the team grow and develop. Why are you complaining about how long that process can take??? Young players that are in their Pre Prime years need time to develop. This is always the case.

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Rebuilding=Meaningless=insignificant in the media world.

Think real fans know its a 3-5 years before we should expect anything. Non-fans have nothing to talk/criticize about.

But it's like one of those (heard it all before) kind of cases.

Everyone comes in here with a plan that looks and sounds great. It's going to take Isaiah 2 to 3 yrs, its going to take walsh 2 to 3 yrs, it's going to take phil 2 to 3 yrs, and now it's going to take mills 2 to 3 yrs.

whats the difference in dolan not being involved in the day to day, or hiring incompetent people (then hits the road with his band) and they run the franchise into the joke of the league, The results have been bad either way.

People are going to get over THJ, and Noahs contract when the produce wins, when the see real progress, not talk.

Yep. Agree we are back to the drawing board and that it is yet to be seen if we dont F things up again.

But it is what it is. No choice but to see what happens and hope.

I think 3-5 years is too lenient. I would like the Knicks to add one more top end lotto pick. And then go all in for proven players to add to the talent already on the team. I think the season after this one we should look to make playoff moves without sacrificing talent already on the squad.

The one positive with the massive amounts of past failure is the ability to learn from it. Not giving up the farm for Irving was based on learning from past failures. Not settling for the crap Houston was trying to send us back was learning from past failures.

Our cap situation is pretty healthy going forward, we have all our picks, we have a solid collection of young talent. There has been only 1 example that I can think of which all these things were in place. Which turned into Amare and Melo. But that doesn't make it the rule.

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Rebuilding=Meaningless=insignificant in the media world.

Think real fans know its a 3-5 years before we should expect anything. Non-fans have nothing to talk/criticize about.

But it's like one of those (heard it all before) kind of cases.

Everyone comes in here with a plan that looks and sounds great. It's going to take Isaiah 2 to 3 yrs, its going to take walsh 2 to 3 yrs, it's going to take phil 2 to 3 yrs, and now it's going to take mills 2 to 3 yrs.

whats the difference in dolan not being involved in the day to day, or hiring incompetent people (then hits the road with his band) and they run the franchise into the joke of the league, The results have been bad either way.

People are going to get over THJ, and Noahs contract when the produce wins, when the see real progress, not talk.

It was never about 2-3 years for this team last 20 years or more.
It was about win now any give year.
The goal was always playoffs or bust and conference finals or bust... and it was always a bust.
This year team has no expectations for playoffs and no expectations for any kind of record.
It can only surprise in good way instead of this recent Knicks tams who were capable of surprising us only in bad way... and they really did...

right now we got KP, Willy, Frank, Dotson, THJ ...and more ... it's great. Building is fun.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Rebuilding=Meaningless=insignificant in the media world.

Think real fans know its a 3-5 years before we should expect anything. Non-fans have nothing to talk/criticize about.

But it's like one of those (heard it all before) kind of cases.

Everyone comes in here with a plan that looks and sounds great. It's going to take Isaiah 2 to 3 yrs, its going to take walsh 2 to 3 yrs, it's going to take phil 2 to 3 yrs, and now it's going to take mills 2 to 3 yrs.

whats the difference in dolan not being involved in the day to day, or hiring incompetent people (then hits the road with his band) and they run the franchise into the joke of the league, The results have been bad either way.

People are going to get over THJ, and Noahs contract when the produce wins, when the see real progress, not talk.

Yep. Agree we are back to the drawing board and that it is yet to be seen if we dont F things up again.

But it is what it is. No choice but to see what happens and hope.

Why are you guys acting like we haven't already started the process of Rebuilding? The core of whatever this team is going to be has already started to be put together but some fans and media speak as if this team didn't draft some significant talent the last 3 years.

The Melo Trade pushed that process into the next stage. Now we have to let the team grow and develop. Why are you complaining about how long that process can take??? Young players that are in their Pre Prime years need time to develop. This is always the case.

You not understanding how this looks. When walsh came in, cleared the books of bad contracts, drafted Danilo, kept chandler, got Amare, kept his draft picks, got a young prime felton, and Tyson, it all look so promising. We had young roster with a All star in his prime to carry most of the load, and look what happen.

It's great that we have young talent, but so did Isaiah and Walsh, and to be honest nobody is complaining, it's just we saw this same exact start up before with other Front office personal.

This is substantially different and better than the previous regimes. This is not the same and I can't fathom how this isn't crystal clear to everyone how different this is. Instead of adding an Amare Stoudemire, this team has ejected a Carmelo Anthony. They've set the rebuild into the primary focus.

If that's the case than the front office is banking on their young core to develop in to all stars, and how often does that happen, that's just not reality.

Isaiah got rid of allan (by defualt) Walsh got rid of Marbury, phil got rid of Amare, Layden got rid of EWING, and now mills got rid of melo, like there's nothing we haven't seen before.

You still have to get better though trades and FA to add to whatever core you have, and thats where everyone falls flat.

I think we all are optimistic to a certain degree

Of course... This is the new beginning. Can go ether way.
This is the biggest difference - last 20 years it was going to go only one way and it was quite clear and helpless right from the get go.
Now we have a 50/50 shot - the rest is luck and execution.
Isn't witnessing it all what flowing sports is all about?

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Rebuilding=Meaningless=insignificant in the media world.

Think real fans know its a 3-5 years before we should expect anything. Non-fans have nothing to talk/criticize about.

But it's like one of those (heard it all before) kind of cases.

Everyone comes in here with a plan that looks and sounds great. It's going to take Isaiah 2 to 3 yrs, its going to take walsh 2 to 3 yrs, it's going to take phil 2 to 3 yrs, and now it's going to take mills 2 to 3 yrs.

whats the difference in dolan not being involved in the day to day, or hiring incompetent people (then hits the road with his band) and they run the franchise into the joke of the league, The results have been bad either way.

People are going to get over THJ, and Noahs contract when the produce wins, when the see real progress, not talk.

Yep. Agree we are back to the drawing board and that it is yet to be seen if we dont F things up again.

But it is what it is. No choice but to see what happens and hope.

Why are you guys acting like we haven't already started the process of Rebuilding? The core of whatever this team is going to be has already started to be put together but some fans and media speak as if this team didn't draft some significant talent the last 3 years.

The Melo Trade pushed that process into the next stage. Now we have to let the team grow and develop. Why are you complaining about how long that process can take??? Young players that are in their Pre Prime years need time to develop. This is always the case.

Love your enthusiasm. So we will be a contender.......when? I said 3 to 5 years before we make the playoffs...if we dont F things up. This feels like 2007 all over again. But thats what a rebuild feels like. Thats okay.

I feel like it will be 1 more year and kind of hope for that cause the Knicks need 1 more high draft pick.

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Rebuilding=Meaningless=insignificant in the media world.

Think real fans know its a 3-5 years before we should expect anything. Non-fans have nothing to talk/criticize about.

But it's like one of those (heard it all before) kind of cases.

Everyone comes in here with a plan that looks and sounds great. It's going to take Isaiah 2 to 3 yrs, its going to take walsh 2 to 3 yrs, it's going to take phil 2 to 3 yrs, and now it's going to take mills 2 to 3 yrs.

whats the difference in dolan not being involved in the day to day, or hiring incompetent people (then hits the road with his band) and they run the franchise into the joke of the league, The results have been bad either way.

People are going to get over THJ, and Noahs contract when the produce wins, when the see real progress, not talk.

Yep. Agree we are back to the drawing board and that it is yet to be seen if we dont F things up again.

But it is what it is. No choice but to see what happens and hope.

Why are you guys acting like we haven't already started the process of Rebuilding? The core of whatever this team is going to be has already started to be put together but some fans and media speak as if this team didn't draft some significant talent the last 3 years.

The Melo Trade pushed that process into the next stage. Now we have to let the team grow and develop. Why are you complaining about how long that process can take??? Young players that are in their Pre Prime years need time to develop. This is always the case.

Love your enthusiasm. So we will be a contender.......when? I said 3 to 5 years before we make the playoffs...if we dont F things up. This feels like 2007 all over again. But thats what a rebuild feels like. Thats okay.

if we were out west I would agree... 3-5 might be right, but we arent. Good chance 38ish wins gets you the 8th seed this year. Thats only a couple of wins higher than where I expect them to be. East is weak. Knicks should be close to a playoff team this year. Time will tell. I dont have high expectations for a win totals, but this isnt a totally young team. Jeff has already said Noah looks great. Our guard core is simply much better on both ends of the floor than it was last year... Knicks will have to earn respect but nothing about this roster says its a throwaway 20 win team that could be 5 years from the playoffs.

Yeah IMO the Knicks have a team that can be MUCH more efficient than last year's team. The Bigs on this team should be able to score very well inside and they have more 3pt shooting now. As you point out the PG situation is solid enough to help the team function at a good level. I don't think this team is far off from playoff contention.

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Rebuilding=Meaningless=insignificant in the media world.

Think real fans know its a 3-5 years before we should expect anything. Non-fans have nothing to talk/criticize about.

But it's like one of those (heard it all before) kind of cases.

Everyone comes in here with a plan that looks and sounds great. It's going to take Isaiah 2 to 3 yrs, its going to take walsh 2 to 3 yrs, it's going to take phil 2 to 3 yrs, and now it's going to take mills 2 to 3 yrs.

whats the difference in dolan not being involved in the day to day, or hiring incompetent people (then hits the road with his band) and they run the franchise into the joke of the league, The results have been bad either way.

People are going to get over THJ, and Noahs contract when the produce wins, when the see real progress, not talk.

Yep. Agree we are back to the drawing board and that it is yet to be seen if we dont F things up again.

But it is what it is. No choice but to see what happens and hope.

Why are you guys acting like we haven't already started the process of Rebuilding? The core of whatever this team is going to be has already started to be put together but some fans and media speak as if this team didn't draft some significant talent the last 3 years.

The Melo Trade pushed that process into the next stage. Now we have to let the team grow and develop. Why are you complaining about how long that process can take??? Young players that are in their Pre Prime years need time to develop. This is always the case.

Love your enthusiasm. So we will be a contender.......when? I said 3 to 5 years before we make the playoffs...if we dont F things up. This feels like 2007 all over again. But thats what a rebuild feels like. Thats okay.

if we were out west I would agree... 3-5 might be right, but we arent. Good chance 38ish wins gets you the 8th seed this year. Thats only a couple of wins higher than where I expect them to be. East is weak. Knicks should be close to a playoff team this year. Time will tell. I dont have high expectations for a win totals, but this isnt a totally young team. Jeff has already said Noah looks great. Our guard core is simply much better on both ends of the floor than it was last year... Knicks will have to earn respect but nothing about this roster says its a throwaway 20 win team that could be 5 years from the playoffs.

Hope so. But feel, although it is a weaker East, there are more teams that have established rosters. We may have good up and coming players but it takes time to see if 1. they are good enough in their new roles and 2. Do they play well together. Specially when their main player is no longer with them. Think this year will be a good indicator as to how many more years it will take to make the playoffs. Who do you see as the top 8?

Im thinking....

Celts
Cavs
Wiz
Raptors
Bucks

Can make case for Philly, Heat, Hornets and Pistons moving up. Pacers youth movement may keep them in. Think Atlanta and Bulls are probably out. Then the rest, including us, have a lot of questions.

Knicks questions are mainly about how much growth our young players will make from what they flashed the previous year. We know they have legit talent. The question is how soon they take the next step. A few of these kids made progress at Eurobasket. The main thing this team needed was competent Guard Play and more respectable Defense. I expect both to improve this year.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Rebuilding=Meaningless=insignificant in the media world.

Think real fans know its a 3-5 years before we should expect anything. Non-fans have nothing to talk/criticize about.

But it's like one of those (heard it all before) kind of cases.

Everyone comes in here with a plan that looks and sounds great. It's going to take Isaiah 2 to 3 yrs, its going to take walsh 2 to 3 yrs, it's going to take phil 2 to 3 yrs, and now it's going to take mills 2 to 3 yrs.

whats the difference in dolan not being involved in the day to day, or hiring incompetent people (then hits the road with his band) and they run the franchise into the joke of the league, The results have been bad either way.

People are going to get over THJ, and Noahs contract when the produce wins, when the see real progress, not talk.

Yep. Agree we are back to the drawing board and that it is yet to be seen if we dont F things up again.

But it is what it is. No choice but to see what happens and hope.

Why are you guys acting like we haven't already started the process of Rebuilding? The core of whatever this team is going to be has already started to be put together but some fans and media speak as if this team didn't draft some significant talent the last 3 years.

The Melo Trade pushed that process into the next stage. Now we have to let the team grow and develop. Why are you complaining about how long that process can take??? Young players that are in their Pre Prime years need time to develop. This is always the case.

You not understanding how this looks. When walsh came in, cleared the books of bad contracts, drafted Danilo, kept chandler, got Amare, kept his draft picks, got a young prime felton, and Tyson, it all look so promising. We had young roster with a All star in his prime to carry most of the load, and look what happen.

It's great that we have young talent, but so did Isaiah and Walsh, and to be honest nobody is complaining, it's just we saw this same exact start up before with other Front office personal.

Right. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Just wait till Dolan gets impatient. He'll trade all the youths and the picks (if we have any?) for some washed up and deeply flawed vets.

meloshouldgo wrote:

BasketballJones wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Rebuilding=Meaningless=insignificant in the media world.

Think real fans know its a 3-5 years before we should expect anything. Non-fans have nothing to talk/criticize about.

But it's like one of those (heard it all before) kind of cases.

Everyone comes in here with a plan that looks and sounds great. It's going to take Isaiah 2 to 3 yrs, its going to take walsh 2 to 3 yrs, it's going to take phil 2 to 3 yrs, and now it's going to take mills 2 to 3 yrs.

whats the difference in dolan not being involved in the day to day, or hiring incompetent people (then hits the road with his band) and they run the franchise into the joke of the league, The results have been bad either way.

People are going to get over THJ, and Noahs contract when the produce wins, when the see real progress, not talk.

Yep. Agree we are back to the drawing board and that it is yet to be seen if we dont F things up again.

But it is what it is. No choice but to see what happens and hope.

Why are you guys acting like we haven't already started the process of Rebuilding? The core of whatever this team is going to be has already started to be put together but some fans and media speak as if this team didn't draft some significant talent the last 3 years.

The Melo Trade pushed that process into the next stage. Now we have to let the team grow and develop. Why are you complaining about how long that process can take??? Young players that are in their Pre Prime years need time to develop. This is always the case.

You not understanding how this looks. When walsh came in, cleared the books of bad contracts, drafted Danilo, kept chandler, got Amare, kept his draft picks, got a young prime felton, and Tyson, it all look so promising. We had young roster with a All star in his prime to carry most of the load, and look what happen.

It's great that we have young talent, but so did Isaiah and Walsh, and to be honest nobody is complaining, it's just we saw this same exact start up before with other Front office personal.

Right. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Just wait till Dolan gets impatient. He'll trade all the youths and the picks (if we have any?) for some washed up and deeply flawed vets.

You crawled out of the woodwork to post that?

Not specifically, but as long as I'm here anyway....

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Rebuilding=Meaningless=insignificant in the media world.

Think real fans know its a 3-5 years before we should expect anything. Non-fans have nothing to talk/criticize about.

But it's like one of those (heard it all before) kind of cases.

Everyone comes in here with a plan that looks and sounds great. It's going to take Isaiah 2 to 3 yrs, its going to take walsh 2 to 3 yrs, it's going to take phil 2 to 3 yrs, and now it's going to take mills 2 to 3 yrs.

whats the difference in dolan not being involved in the day to day, or hiring incompetent people (then hits the road with his band) and they run the franchise into the joke of the league, The results have been bad either way.

People are going to get over THJ, and Noahs contract when the produce wins, when the see real progress, not talk.

Yep. Agree we are back to the drawing board and that it is yet to be seen if we dont F things up again.

But it is what it is. No choice but to see what happens and hope.

Why are you guys acting like we haven't already started the process of Rebuilding? The core of whatever this team is going to be has already started to be put together but some fans and media speak as if this team didn't draft some significant talent the last 3 years.

The Melo Trade pushed that process into the next stage. Now we have to let the team grow and develop. Why are you complaining about how long that process can take??? Young players that are in their Pre Prime years need time to develop. This is always the case.

Love your enthusiasm. So we will be a contender.......when? I said 3 to 5 years before we make the playoffs...if we dont F things up. This feels like 2007 all over again. But thats what a rebuild feels like. Thats okay.

I feel like it will be 1 more year and kind of hope for that cause the Knicks need 1 more high draft pick.

1 more high draft pick who just has to defend every position on the floor. Check. Oh, and said high draft pick has to play more than 35 minutes per game. And not be injured for 1/4 of each season...and...