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Pelton trade grades for the Melo deal
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CrushAlot
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9/23/2017  3:16 PM
Trade grades for New York Knicks, Oklahoma City Thunder Carmelo Anthony deal - NBA
by Kevin Pelton on 2017-09-11 02:04:00 UTC (original: http://insider.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/20793198/trade-grades-new-york-knicks-oklahoma-city-thunder-carmelo-anthony-deal-nba)

The deal
Thunder get: Forward Carmelo Anthony

Knicks get: Center Enes Kanter, forward Doug McDermott and Chicago's 2018 second-round pick


Oklahoma City Thunder: A
Within the last three months, the Thunder have gone from one extreme to another in terms of their shot creation around star Russell Westbrook. Having already acquired Paul George from the Indiana Pacers, Oklahoma City will now add Anthony, giving them two players whose usage rates were dramatically higher than that of any of Westbrook's teammates in 2016-17.

Again, the cost to the Thunder was incredibly low. Kanter is a useful, if overpaid, contributor off the bench. But his defensive deficiencies rendered him nearly unplayable during Oklahoma City's playoff series with the Houston Rockets, when he got on the floor for just 45 minutes over five games as the Thunder lost 4-1. McDermott is similarly limited at the defensive end of the court, which prevented Oklahoma City from fully taking advantage of his ability to space the floor. And the second-round pick has little trade value.

The Thunder can now put out a lineup better equipped to match up with the Golden State Warriors and other opponents with effective smallball attacks. George's arrival allows Andre Roberson to defend power forwards, the role he played against Golden State in the 2016 Western Conference finals when Billy Donovan went small to match up. Playing Roberson as a 4 offensively hides his shortcomings as a shooter.

Anthony's arrival also means the Thunder are less dependent on Patrick Patterson, who underwent knee surgery last month not long after signing with Oklahoma City as a free agent. Patterson could provide more shooting if he plays ahead of Roberson in a postseason setting, but the Thunder no longer need him to start if his rehab is slower than anticipated.

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The big question for Oklahoma City is how Westbrook, George and Anthony will share the load offensively. The Westbrook-George pairing figured to work similarly to Westbrook and Kevin Durant, but the Thunder never had a third starter as offensive-minded as Anthony alongside Westbrook. Between 2009-10 and Durant's departure, the highest usage rate for an Oklahoma City starter besides the two stars was Kanter's 23.6 percent mark in 2015-16. (Kanter also had a 23.9 percent usage rate in 2014-14, which he split between the Thunder and the Utah Jazz.) Anthony's usage rate was 29.1 percent last season, and that was his lowest mark since his rookie season.

The success of this partnership will be determined in large part by Anthony's ability to become more efficient in a smaller role. Hope for that is provided by Anthony's success with the USA National Team in the Olympics and other international competitions. However, Anthony benefited there from the shorter FIBA 3-point line. He'll spend far more time in a catch-and-shoot role this season and needs to make 3s at an above-average rate, as he did in 2016-17 (35.9 percent).

I'm not convinced that adding Anthony makes Oklahoma City the biggest threat to the Warriors in the West. The Houston Rockets still look like a deeper team, albeit with fit questions of their own. But at this low price, there's no question this was a chance worth taking for the Thunder.

The biggest price may be the literal cost to ownership. Adding Anthony's salary, even without his trade bonus (waived to complete the trade) takes Oklahoma City even deeper into the luxury tax. Barring a midseason move to shed payroll, the Thunder are looking at paying nearly $30 million in taxes. Anthony's 2018-19 player option also limits Oklahoma City's flexibility next summer should George or Westbrook (or both) depart, although if Anthony expects that he may opt out of his contract as well. And in the case that all three players return, the Thunder would be staring at an enormous repeater tax bill.

New York Knicks: D
According to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski, Knicks GM Scott Perry was looking for a scoring wing, short-term contracts and draft picks in an Anthony trade. Consider New York one for three in accomplishing those goals. For the Knicks not to even be able to get a good second-round pick in this trade is a disappointment, and McDermott certainly doesn't qualify as a wing capable of replacing Anthony's scoring production.

At least New York isn't tied to long-term contracts as a result of this deal. McDermott is in the final season of his rookie contract, while Kanter -- like Anthony -- has a 2018-19 player option. With limited cap space available, the market for centers could be rough, so I'd expect Kanter to opt in. In that case, the Knicks aren't creating much cap relief in the summer of 2018 as compared to Anthony's player option. Still, this certainly isn't as bad as taking on the remaining three years of Ryan Anderson's contract, which likely would have been required of any trade with the Rockets.

Kanter doesn't really fill a need for New York, which already has a similar prospect with more defensive potential in Wily Hernangomez. With Hernangomez, Kanter, Joakim Noah and Kyle O'Quinn the Knicks are overflowing at the center position despite the fact that they should probably be getting power forward Kristaps Porzingis minutes there. I'd expect New York to explore the trade market for Kanter, which is unlikely to yield much value in return.

At this point, it was unlikely the Knicks would get much in return for Anthony. His no-trade clause limited their options, and Anthony is no longer a star player worth his maximum contract. More than anything, what the Knicks get out of this deal is the ability to move on from the ugly end to the Anthony era in the Big Apple. There's no longer any obligation to try to win on Anthony's timetable, which may have been a factor in the awful Noah contract, and by making the trade now New York avoids the awkwardness of bringing Anthony to training camp with both sides eager for a deal.


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CrushAlot
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9/23/2017  3:18 PM
I disagree with Pelton on the pick. A chicago second round pick is a very good pick. The bulls look like they will be very bad this year.
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StarksEwing1
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9/23/2017  3:20 PM
I dont pay too much attention to trade grades. It was a bad situation and at least we added a couple decent pieces, a high 2nd rounder,and some cap relief
CrushAlot
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9/23/2017  3:22 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:I dont pay too much attention to trade grades. It was a bad situation and at least we added a couple decent pieces, a high 2nd rounder,and some cap relief
At least he admits the Knicks were in a horribly compromised position but it doesn't appear that he considered that in his grade of the trade. The Thunder got the better player and became a better team. But with what the Knicks were working with I think this was a very good outcome.
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StarksEwing1
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9/23/2017  3:24 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I dont pay too much attention to trade grades. It was a bad situation and at least we added a couple decent pieces, a high 2nd rounder,and some cap relief
At least he admits the Knicks were in a horribly compromised position but it doesn't appear that he considered that in his grade of the trade. The Thunder got the better player and became a better team. But with what the Knicks were working with I think this was a very good outcome.
plus melo is basically gonna be their third guy which is another reason the return isnt huge
BigDaddyG
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9/23/2017  3:29 PM
CrushAlot wrote:I disagree with Pelton on the pick. A chicago second round pick is a very good pick. The bulls look like they will be very bad this year.

Yeah, the pick isn't that much worse than a low first-rounder. Bulls will be in contention for worse team in the league. I agree that we need to move Kanter, like, yesterday lol he's young, but doesn't really fit long-term.
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nixluva
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9/23/2017  5:09 PM
Kanter isn't really a problem tho. He's at least a highly efficient scorer and rebounder. This wasn't a situation where the Knicks had a ton of options. They only had a few teams to work with. They got 2 25 yr old players with short deals.

The crazy thing is that both Kanter and McDermott are amazingly bad defenders. The Knicks might consider using some Zone D next season

RicanHavok
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9/23/2017  5:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/23/2017  5:24 PM
Funny I always saw Kanter as Willy's ceiling, unless Willy can evolve on the defensive end; **** Kanter is a bigger, slower, but younger Melo lol. He'll be an easy flip or opt out. I don't get the doom & gloom in the article.
reub
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9/23/2017  5:23 PM
CrushAlot wrote:I disagree with Pelton on the pick. A chicago second round pick is a very good pick. The bulls look like they will be very bad this year.

For Pelton to say that we didn't even get a good 2nd round pick shows me his bias here. We definitely got one of those so I distrust everything else he's saying too.

RicanHavok
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9/23/2017  5:25 PM
reub wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I disagree with Pelton on the pick. A chicago second round pick is a very good pick. The bulls look like they will be very bad this year.

For Pelton to say that we didn't even get a good 2nd round pick shows me his bias here. We definitely got one of those so I distrust everything else he's saying too.

This!

Uptown
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9/23/2017  5:33 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I dont pay too much attention to trade grades. It was a bad situation and at least we added a couple decent pieces, a high 2nd rounder,and some cap relief
At least he admits the Knicks were in a horribly compromised position but it doesn't appear that he considered that in his grade of the trade. The Thunder got the better player and became a better team. But with what the Knicks were working with I think this was a very good outcome.

Agreed...Was hoping for Ferguson too but considering the circumstances, not an awful trade.

WaltLongmire
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9/23/2017  6:05 PM
CrushAlot wrote:I disagree with Pelton on the pick. A chicago second round pick is a very good pick. The bulls look like they will be very bad this year.

Yeah...that was strange. Low 30s allow you to pick some expected 1st rounders who fall or some sleepers you fall in love with...not bad any way you look at it.
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TPercy
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9/23/2017  6:45 PM
ESPN's opinions don't mean ****. They ranked Melo as #64th in the league ffs.
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fitzfarm
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9/23/2017  8:00 PM
TPercy wrote:ESPN's opinions don't mean ****. They ranked Melo as #64th in the league ffs.

Exactly, there a reason espn’s rating have been dropping like crazy, Espn is like Fox News it’s filled with idiots

SwishAndDish13
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9/23/2017  8:15 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
TPercy wrote:ESPN's opinions don't mean ****. They ranked Melo as #64th in the league ffs.

Exactly, there a reason espn’s rating have been dropping like crazy, Espn is like Fox News it’s filled with idiots

I agree. They create too much nonsense for clicks but it is hurting their credibility. That said, I think think a D is a but harsh. A C is probably more realistic. After all that they ended up taking back a pretty bad contract in Kanter who will certainly opt in. I dunno how they plan to get manage the minutes will all these bigs either. Not great for roster balance.

fitzfarm
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9/23/2017  8:17 PM
SwishAndDish13 wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
TPercy wrote:ESPN's opinions don't mean ****. They ranked Melo as #64th in the league ffs.

Exactly, there a reason espn’s rating have been dropping like crazy, Espn is like Fox News it’s filled with idiots

I agree. They create too much nonsense for clicks but it is hurting their credibility. That said, I think think a D is a but harsh. A C is probably more realistic. After all that they ended up taking back a pretty bad contract in Kanter who will certainly opt in. I dunno how they plan to get manage the minutes will all these bigs either. Not great for roster balance.

I have a feeling, there will be more trades

WaltLongmire
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9/23/2017  9:10 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
SwishAndDish13 wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
TPercy wrote:ESPN's opinions don't mean ****. They ranked Melo as #64th in the league ffs.

Exactly, there a reason espn’s rating have been dropping like crazy, Espn is like Fox News it’s filled with idiots

I agree. They create too much nonsense for clicks but it is hurting their credibility. That said, I think think a D is a but harsh. A C is probably more realistic. After all that they ended up taking back a pretty bad contract in Kanter who will certainly opt in. I dunno how they plan to get manage the minutes will all these bigs either. Not great for roster balance.

I have a feeling, there will be more trades


Before the season starts...or a trade deadline deal?
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joec32033
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9/23/2017  9:45 PM
Exactly what I was saying before. Everyone says they need to trade him. Melo deserves better. Then the minute the trade was made, they complain they could have gotten more. Every freaking proposal was fairly similar and differed by only a matter of degrees. Portland if it included Harkless (who isn't as accomplished as Kanter and took like 3 teams to just get where he is now) was maybe a better fit, but this trade included just as much pure talent.
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meloshouldgo
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9/23/2017  9:51 PM
joec32033 wrote:Exactly what I was saying before. Everyone says they need to trade him. Melo deserves better. Then the minute the trade was made, they complain they could have gotten more. Every freaking proposal was fairly similar and differed by only a matter of degrees. Portland if it included Harkless (who isn't as accomplished as Kanter and took like 3 teams to just get where he is now) was maybe a better fit, but this trade included just as much pure talent.

All they care about is Melo. It has never been about the Knicks for these guys, so they blame everything and everybody to try and make Melo look good. I don't give a rat's ass about Melo's feelings or his desire to play somewhere else, I am just happy he is no longer a Knick. Now if we could also fire Dolan and a few of these Melo fans - that would be just peachy.

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CrushAlot
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9/23/2017  9:53 PM
joec32033 wrote:Exactly what I was saying before. Everyone says they need to trade him. Melo deserves better. Then the minute the trade was made, they complain they could have gotten more. Every freaking proposal was fairly similar and differed by only a matter of degrees. Portland if it included Harkless (who isn't as accomplished as Kanter and took like 3 teams to just get where he is now) was maybe a better fit, but this trade included just as much pure talent.
This. Rivers and Craw, Shump, Frye and filler, Anderson and filler. They did as well as they could if their goal was to move that contract. His deal was almost untradeable and he was owed too much for a buyout until next year.
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Pelton trade grades for the Melo deal

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