martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

masud wrote:Getting rid of Melo was paramount and nearly impossible without taking on long term money and we were able to do that. Couldn't be happier. Let's give our young guys the ball, try to a establish a culture and hopefully get another lottery pick next summer.

It is a bit funny that there has been so much complaining about Melo's defense over the years, management pushing defense and they get back two horrible defenders in the Melo trade. Also, Melo is a better defender at the 4 where he will play in OKC. He had his best year playing the 4 next to Tyson and will be in a similar position playing next to Adams. Melo is older but he has never had teammates that could start on most other nba teams let alone win the mvp or make all nba teams. He should enjoy his time there.

That's all BS man. Your whole post. I don't have time to deal with each sentence but will start with this:

Melo is not better at a different position when it comes to defense. At the 3 he couldn't keep up with guys on the perimeter, at the 4 he will get beat up and is not a rim or weak side protector.

Although i think the 4 masks Melos awful defense it also as Martin said beat him up. I wouldn’t be surprised if melo struggles like he did when he was a spot up shooter for MDA. Westbrook is a ball dominate player which makes melo a very expensive spot up shooter. Also you can only play with one ball I don’t see melo blending in well with westbrook and George. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them turn melo into a glorified 6 th man. Remember melo is a ball stopper and a team chemistry killer. Just look at his advanced stats he’s in the bottom of the nba, opposed to kanter who is on the top.

Melo is 33 years old hes not changing anytime soon just wait for the okc fans to wine when melo calls his own number only to chuck up a contested jumper. The biggest issue with old melo is not his shot, its the fact he stopped driving to the hoop and always settled for jumpers. Early Knick melo used to take it to the hoop a lot opening up the midrange and three for him. Now teams dare melo to put the ball on the floor by glueing a defender on him... he’ll get his shots but you can drastically drop his percentage now. Melo is past his prime and we got a center who is just entering his prime. If he can improve his defense we will be talking about how we stole a up and coming star for a declining pre Madonna. Perry comes out looking like a genius

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

masud wrote:Getting rid of Melo was paramount and nearly impossible without taking on long term money and we were able to do that. Couldn't be happier. Let's give our young guys the ball, try to a establish a culture and hopefully get another lottery pick next summer.

It is a bit funny that there has been so much complaining about Melo's defense over the years, management pushing defense and they get back two horrible defenders in the Melo trade. Also, Melo is a better defender at the 4 where he will play in OKC. He had his best year playing the 4 next to Tyson and will be in a similar position playing next to Adams. Melo is older but he has never had teammates that could start on most other nba teams let alone win the mvp or make all nba teams. He should enjoy his time there.

That's all BS man. Your whole post. I don't have time to deal with each sentence but will start with this:

Melo is not better at a different position when it comes to defense. At the 3 he couldn't keep up with guys on the perimeter, at the 4 he will get beat up and is not a rim or weak side protector.

TripleThreat wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

reub wrote:Kanter has lost 40 freakin pounds this offseason and looks ripped. He's already put up incredible offensive and rebounding stats for three years and this loss of weight and conditioning should mean a lot for his defense.

Agreed 25 is the start to bigs prime i fully expect his defense to improve

Enes Kanter, defensively, is worse than having an injured player on the court. Seriously guys, think about that one for a second. If you took a pivot OFF THE INJURED LIST, I mean a guy who is legit hurt and can't actually function and would need to hobble on one leg and limp around and couldn't even get his hands in the air, that player would still be more effectively defensively than Kanter.

He cannot space the floor and he cannot defend the rim. He is however instinctively gifted with his back to the basket. He also is a vacuum cleaner on the glass. He is a low IQ player and his inability to even marginally defend the rim is simply bizarre. Even with his physical limitations, just factoring in his size, it's plain bizarre as all hell.

He does have the talent and soft touch to become, possibly, a good enough three point shooter over time, to space the floor. But that's no guarantee.

You know the town slut who you only have to buy half a beer for to take a ride? She puts up more resistance than Kanter will near the rim. He's horrible. Other teams actually target him until someone has to mercy bench the guy.

The big most likely to be able, somewhat, to help hide Kanter is O'Quinn, who will likely be the next guy traded off the roster. Retrading Kanter does not seem likely. Many teams are cap locked going into this next offseason. He makes big money and again, can't space the floor and can't defend the rim.

Maybe he can help Zinger in his post game, that's maybe the only silver lining here.

Not going to be popular, what I am going to say, but Ryan Anderson and a first would have still been a better return ( not by much, both deals would be ugly) than what the Knicks did actually get. Yes, Anderson makes a little more and is a year longer, but he can actually space the floor. And while he's also a zero on defense, at least his shooting can draw bigs out of the paint for Hardaway to try to slash a little to the basket.

Kanter also trashed Utah on the way out and has some political rift in his own country, which he might use NY as a soap box for and become a media distraction.

Not a ton of upside in terms of Kanter. Yes, he's young, yes he has some offensive polish. But the tradeoffs are pretty extreme.

With melo you can’t teach a old dog new tricks, I can almost guarantee you he will kill the team chemistry in okc. Phil was right melo holds the ball to long, that won’t change in okc. Also old melo settles for jump shots and rarely takes it to the hoop like young melo used to . What did you expect we would get in return for a aging chemistry killer?

In terms of kanter he is not just ok on offense he’s amazing, he’s a top 5 center on offense. Quite frankly he can’t be stopped with his back to the basket. He’s also has a really nice mid range game and he has shown he’s not afraid to shoot threes and stretch the floor. He’s also a rebounding machine

You are right kanter is aweful on defense, he’d probably be the first to tell you that, he knows that’s the reason he only averaged 20 minutes a game last year. he road the bench in the playoffs because of his defensive shortcomings.

So what did the 25 year old do about it well for starters he lost 40 lbs and got into the best shape of his life. I’m sure his coaches in okc told him many many times “if you got in shape and played even a lick on defense we would never take you off the floor”. I have a feeling he listened

Unlike offense defense can be learned over time, the perfect example is thjr he to is super gifted on offense and like kanter was god awful on defense. Thjr listened and worked hard on defense even got sent down to the d league because of his awful defense.

Now at 25 thjr is a average defensive player if you ask me I think kanter got the message as well. Don’t be shocked to see kanter become a average defender. defense takes time for some players, thjr is Living proof of that . If kanter can even become below average to average on defense we have a all star in the making. You don’t lose 40 lbs and get into the best shape of your life if you don’t want to become a better player. Kanter is only 25 and is just hitting his prime.

Regardless getting rid of melo is addition by subtraction. The chemistry killer is gone say hallelujah!

(I think he found out around 52 secs in)

Seemed to love being with OKC:

I'll root for him

GustavBahler wrote:"Meh" would be how I would describe this deal.

At least we didnt take on long term garbage. McDermott can shoot the three, Hornacek will like that.

Underwhelmed. Wasnt expecting a deal for Melo in his prime, but doesn't seem like very much for someone who still has enough game to get teams very interested, in spite of his killer contract.

The problem is that any teams that get him inherit his same no trade clause. In that sense I think we did fine.

Markji wrote:I give Perry an "A" for the way he handled this. He came into a very toxic situation and handled it like a pro. He didn't cave; he didn't publicly put down Melo; he didn't give into Melo and trade him to Houston for Ryan Anderson. That would have been a terrible trade for the Knicks.

He got the most value he could for Melo under the circumstances. Trading with Oklahoma, the only way to make salaries work was to get Kanter. While Kanter didn't address our immediate "need" for a PG or a SF, or a defensive player, he was the "best player available" and had a salary large enough to help provide a salary match for Melo.

Don't look at the negative. Look at the positive. Kanter is a beast offensively. He is also a beast under the boards, especially offensive rebounds. His per 36 numbers are off the chart offensively. McDermott is also very good offensively. He has an excellent shot and 3 pt shooters have become more valuable in today's game and should fit in nicely in Hornacek's offensive schemes. I'd rate the players we received a B.

If someone says we should build via the draft....Kanter was a #3 selection in the 2011 draft. McDermott was a #11 selection in the 2014 draft. Beasley was a #2 pick in the 2008 draft. Not all lottery picks, or even top lottery picks, become All-Stars. It is difficult to get ALL-Star plays thru the draft. A team has to get lucky as we did with Porzingis. But we just got 3 lottery picks/players who are very good offensively. Not great 2 way players but they will contribute and add to the Knicks team if Horny utilizes their strengths wisely.

I am very pleased that this trade was done and now we can move on.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Markji wrote:I give Perry an "A" for the way he handled this. He came into a very toxic situation and handled it like a pro. He didn't cave; he didn't publicly put down Melo; he didn't give into Melo and trade him to Houston for Ryan Anderson. That would have been a terrible trade for the Knicks.

He got the most value he could for Melo under the circumstances. Trading with Oklahoma, the only way to make salaries work was to get Kanter. While Kanter didn't address our immediate "need" for a PG or a SF, or a defensive player, he was the "best player available" and had a salary large enough to help provide a salary match for Melo.

Don't look at the negative. Look at the positive. Kanter is a beast offensively. He is also a beast under the boards, especially offensive rebounds. His per 36 numbers are off the chart offensively. McDermott is also very good offensively. He has an excellent shot and 3 pt shooters have become more valuable in today's game and should fit in nicely in Hornacek's offensive schemes. I'd rate the players we received a B.

If someone says we should build via the draft....Kanter was a #3 selection in the 2011 draft. McDermott was a #11 selection in the 2014 draft. Beasley was a #2 pick in the 2008 draft. Not all lottery picks, or even top lottery picks, become All-Stars. It is difficult to get ALL-Star plays thru the draft. A team has to get lucky as we did with Porzingis. But we just got 3 lottery picks/players who are very good offensively. Not great 2 way players but they will contribute and add to the Knicks team if Horny utilizes their strengths wisely.

I am very pleased that this trade was done and now we can move on.

Melo was drafted #3!
JK - I do agree with most of what you wrote. I'm not a fan of thinking of veterans as being like draft picks though.

Even if he plays just okay, he has an opt out claus after this season. This trade isn’t as bad as people are making it out to be.