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OT: Standing for the National Anthem
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blkexec
Posts: 24131
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Member: #748
9/18/2017  9:13 AM
Briggs... the only pure black and whites are in a crayon box. Who ever created those labels where either mentally retarded or had a bigger vision of long term racism and oppression.

If police are and have been for years.....getting away with murder.......all non police citizens should protest. But when people make it a black and white label......it gives the white labels a back out clause. Instead it's a civil vs police issue..

People use the flag and national anthem to protest....because it's going to hit home and wake people up. It's called bringing awareness to something when the majority continues to ignore it.

If we all had spiritual values and not worldly values which is built on racism and division with false labels. black and white is not a race......Its the system vs civilians. And the media focus on AAs since the system was built to hold them down. Keep the free slaves mentally enslaved.

People think because they have a white label.... they are safe. That's not the case anymore in 2017. Until we wake up, nothing is going to change. Trump is teaching all his supporters like Briggs how to change the narrative. For example....just read the thread title.

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
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BRIGGS
Posts: 49442
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9/18/2017  10:23 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Non confrontational infractions

Police can only issue warnings and tickets for minor traffic infractions that do not include suspected drink driving or reckless driving through mail( similar to non payment through a toll)

Police cannot stop or interact with any individual unless their body and car cameras are functional/ installed and running. Failure to have these cameras running will be met with written verbal warnings than termination.

There are no more mandatory minimum infraction rules

Here are some TRUE reasonable solutions-- not that hard to think about and implement


There were well over 1000 people killed by police only 25% were black. Those other 750 lives matter as well-- just as much as a black life?

It takes reasonable common sense approach to diminish police interaction to a minimum. I'm sure other reasonable steps can help further as well. But putting the entire police force of the nation on notice and protesting a national anthem that tens of millions find distesctful isn't yhe right avenue Common sense will always prevail


Wait, do you think it's inherently wrong to protest the national anthem (in which case the reason for the protest doesn't matter)? Or do you think it's OK and just object to the reason here? If they were protesting all unjust police interactions (including with White victims), then this would be OK?

Yeah I don't think the National Anthem is a protest vehicle rather a unifying event where people can pay tribute to the military and country they live in.

Issues with police are not exclusive to black folds. Only 25% of the people killed by police are black. Someone mentioned protocol. Common sense to me is to limit area of interaction by changing confrontational stops ( ah solution) also a cop must have their cameras running without exception- i. E mandatory. I'm sure there are other common sense vehicles to limit police interaction with society so less people are fearful( both police and public) and less events of tragedy will occur black people do not own the nations sympathy for police interaction they need to help be part of the solution along with everyone else in the US.solutions common sense solutions. Not standing for the national anthem is grossly divisive and protesting a million cops is flagrantly wrong. Bonn how many cops save lives? They took over 1000 but how many do they save?
Another solution-- continued care for police to make sure they are mentally for for the job and don't have evidence of racial bias

I can sit here and think of many common sense solutions -- if the answers back is batch and cry than you really just want to be a martyr

Knickoftime
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9/18/2017  10:35 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topic

off-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.

That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...

I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.

Having toxic, stupid **** on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.

That doesn't help me. What to do?

The first step in persuasion is to get that misinformed and under-educated out there.

I suspect If I ever referred to black people on this forum, here specifically or anywhere generally, with the N-word, what would happen.

Briggs has directly referred to black people generally as being hateful, violent and scary. He lately has qualified that as "inner city AAs." At the same time he posts YouTube videos of violent outbursts that didn't occur in "inner city." He has rejected our nation's history as a factor in crime and violence, suggesting anyone in this country regardless of circumstance has equal opportunity. He may not have the courage to put those thoughts together, but the implication is clear.

We are now holding a discourse in a thread that has nothing to do with "inner city AAs", but his problems with black people of an entirely different demo.

Who he is is clear, by his own words.

As an American, I fully support his right to go about his life without fear of reprisal, imprisonment or taxation over his views from any government agency, which is the extent of his First Amendment rights. And independent of the views he holds, he doesn't even attempt to engage in discussion, so he would not be welcome in my home. If I were president of the club he would not be welcome as a member, if I an employer he would not be welcome as an employee.

As I say, I don't know how the sum total of his thoughts and words is any less offensive to the one thing that would get any of us removed from the premises.


Sorry Knickstime--Id say roughly 75% of non AA feel the same way--and the majority of police. And the other 25% well they can go hang out in their local inner city projects and see how they are treated if they spend a few hours there.

When you make up statistics out of thin air, you show yourself incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

But the excuse that black people are oppressed in 2017 is about a big of farce as you can get. You are free to go and do whatever you want in this country. Inner city AA need to have better parenting take responsibility and move away from their culture of violence and crime.

Okay, here is where you need to be brave. Explain why succinctly and honestly, since they have no excuse, "inner city AAs" are more violent and hateful than other people, aren't good parents, don't take responsibility, and don't move away from a culture of violence and crime?

The shouldn't be a difficult question answer, and there should be little to no hedging on your part.

answer what?

Is this a joke?

This:

BRIGGS wrote:But the excuse that black people are oppressed in 2017 is about a big of farce as you can get. You are free to go and do whatever you want in this country. Inner city AA need to have better parenting take responsibility and move away from their culture of violence and crime.

Explain why, succinctly and honestly, since they have no excuse, "inner city AAs" are more violent and hateful than other people, aren't good parents, don't take responsibility, and don't move away from a culture of violence and crime?

BRIGGS
Posts: 49442
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Member: #303
9/18/2017  10:41 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topic

off-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.

That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...

I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.

Having toxic, stupid **** on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.

That doesn't help me. What to do?

The first step in persuasion is to get that misinformed and under-educated out there.

I suspect If I ever referred to black people on this forum, here specifically or anywhere generally, with the N-word, what would happen.

Briggs has directly referred to black people generally as being hateful, violent and scary. He lately has qualified that as "inner city AAs." At the same time he posts YouTube videos of violent outbursts that didn't occur in "inner city." He has rejected our nation's history as a factor in crime and violence, suggesting anyone in this country regardless of circumstance has equal opportunity. He may not have the courage to put those thoughts together, but the implication is clear.

We are now holding a discourse in a thread that has nothing to do with "inner city AAs", but his problems with black people of an entirely different demo.

Who he is is clear, by his own words.

As an American, I fully support his right to go about his life without fear of reprisal, imprisonment or taxation over his views from any government agency, which is the extent of his First Amendment rights. And independent of the views he holds, he doesn't even attempt to engage in discussion, so he would not be welcome in my home. If I were president of the club he would not be welcome as a member, if I an employer he would not be welcome as an employee.

As I say, I don't know how the sum total of his thoughts and words is any less offensive to the one thing that would get any of us removed from the premises.


Sorry Knickstime--Id say roughly 75% of non AA feel the same way--and the majority of police. And the other 25% well they can go hang out in their local inner city projects and see how they are treated if they spend a few hours there.

When you make up statistics out of thin air, you show yourself incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

But the excuse that black people are oppressed in 2017 is about a big of farce as you can get. You are free to go and do whatever you want in this country. Inner city AA need to have better parenting take responsibility and move away from their culture of violence and crime.

Okay, here is where you need to be brave. Explain why succinctly and honestly, since they have no excuse, "inner city AAs" are more violent and hateful than other people, aren't good parents, don't take responsibility, and don't move away from a culture of violence and crime?

The shouldn't be a difficult question answer, and there should be little to no hedging on your part.

answer what?

Is this a joke?

This:

BRIGGS wrote:But the excuse that black people are oppressed in 2017 is about a big of farce as you can get. You are free to go and do whatever you want in this country. Inner city AA need to have better parenting take responsibility and move away from their culture of violence and crime.

Explain why, succinctly and honestly, since they have no excuse, "inner city AAs" are more violent and hateful than other people, aren't good parents, don't take responsibility, and don't move away from a culture of violence and crime?

Like zi said--Im here for solutions. Im not here to answer for anything other than responsibility of all people. Mpst people have issues in the US not just black people--its not an exclusive club. Black people need to help find solutions to inner city violence along with all other races. Thats your answer

Knickoftime
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9/18/2017  10:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/18/2017  11:00 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topic

off-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.

That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...

I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.

Having toxic, stupid **** on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.

That doesn't help me. What to do?

The first step in persuasion is to get that misinformed and under-educated out there.

I suspect If I ever referred to black people on this forum, here specifically or anywhere generally, with the N-word, what would happen.

Briggs has directly referred to black people generally as being hateful, violent and scary. He lately has qualified that as "inner city AAs." At the same time he posts YouTube videos of violent outbursts that didn't occur in "inner city." He has rejected our nation's history as a factor in crime and violence, suggesting anyone in this country regardless of circumstance has equal opportunity. He may not have the courage to put those thoughts together, but the implication is clear.

We are now holding a discourse in a thread that has nothing to do with "inner city AAs", but his problems with black people of an entirely different demo.

Who he is is clear, by his own words.

As an American, I fully support his right to go about his life without fear of reprisal, imprisonment or taxation over his views from any government agency, which is the extent of his First Amendment rights. And independent of the views he holds, he doesn't even attempt to engage in discussion, so he would not be welcome in my home. If I were president of the club he would not be welcome as a member, if I an employer he would not be welcome as an employee.

As I say, I don't know how the sum total of his thoughts and words is any less offensive to the one thing that would get any of us removed from the premises.


Sorry Knickstime--Id say roughly 75% of non AA feel the same way--and the majority of police. And the other 25% well they can go hang out in their local inner city projects and see how they are treated if they spend a few hours there.

When you make up statistics out of thin air, you show yourself incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

But the excuse that black people are oppressed in 2017 is about a big of farce as you can get. You are free to go and do whatever you want in this country. Inner city AA need to have better parenting take responsibility and move away from their culture of violence and crime.

Okay, here is where you need to be brave. Explain why succinctly and honestly, since they have no excuse, "inner city AAs" are more violent and hateful than other people, aren't good parents, don't take responsibility, and don't move away from a culture of violence and crime?

The shouldn't be a difficult question answer, and there should be little to no hedging on your part.

answer what?

Is this a joke?

This:

BRIGGS wrote:But the excuse that black people are oppressed in 2017 is about a big of farce as you can get. You are free to go and do whatever you want in this country. Inner city AA need to have better parenting take responsibility and move away from their culture of violence and crime.

Explain why, succinctly and honestly, since they have no excuse, "inner city AAs" are more violent and hateful than other people, aren't good parents, don't take responsibility, and don't move away from a culture of violence and crime?

Like zi said--Im here for solutions. Im not here to answer for anything other than responsibility of all people. Mpst people have issues in the US not just black people--its not an exclusive club. Black people need to help find solutions to inner city violence along with all other races. Thats your answer

You talk repeatedly about finding the root of an issue, you've over the last twenty four hours challenged others to answer questions, but you're bailing out here like a coward. One simply needs to see your positions as the whole, and the implications of what you won't say are inescapable. You simply don't want to put words to what you clearly believe is the root of the issue, you just want to post YouTube videos.

You believe the black community has no more problems than anyone else. You don't believe institutionalized racism exists. You don't believe that black communities are oppressed due to historical factors. You believe black people are more criminal, violent, hateful, are bad parents and irresponsible for no other reason other than that's the way they are, but you're not brave enough to say that, or finish the thought.

martin
Posts: 46304
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USA
9/18/2017  11:00 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topic

off-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.

That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...

I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.

Having toxic, stupid **** on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.

That doesn't help me. What to do?

The first step in persuasion is to get that misinformed and under-educated out there.

I suspect If I ever referred to black people on this forum, here specifically or anywhere generally, with the N-word, what would happen.

Briggs has directly referred to black people generally as being hateful, violent and scary. He lately has qualified that as "inner city AAs." At the same time he posts YouTube videos of violent outbursts that didn't occur in "inner city." He has rejected our nation's history as a factor in crime and violence, suggesting anyone in this country regardless of circumstance has equal opportunity. He may not have the courage to put those thoughts together, but the implication is clear.

We are now holding a discourse in a thread that has nothing to do with "inner city AAs", but his problems with black people of an entirely different demo.

Who he is is clear, by his own words.

As an American, I fully support his right to go about his life without fear of reprisal, imprisonment or taxation over his views from any government agency, which is the extent of his First Amendment rights. And independent of the views he holds, he doesn't even attempt to engage in discussion, so he would not be welcome in my home. If I were president of the club he would not be welcome as a member, if I an employer he would not be welcome as an employee.

As I say, I don't know how the sum total of his thoughts and words is any less offensive to the one thing that would get any of us removed from the premises.


Sorry Knickstime--Id say roughly 75% of non AA feel the same way--and the majority of police. And the other 25% well they can go hang out in their local inner city projects and see how they are treated if they spend a few hours there.

When you make up statistics out of thin air, you show yourself incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

But the excuse that black people are oppressed in 2017 is about a big of farce as you can get. You are free to go and do whatever you want in this country. Inner city AA need to have better parenting take responsibility and move away from their culture of violence and crime.

Okay, here is where you need to be brave. Explain why succinctly and honestly, since they have no excuse, "inner city AAs" are more violent and hateful than other people, aren't good parents, don't take responsibility, and don't move away from a culture of violence and crime?

The shouldn't be a difficult question answer, and there should be little to no hedging on your part.

answer what?

Is this a joke?

This:

BRIGGS wrote:But the excuse that black people are oppressed in 2017 is about a big of farce as you can get. You are free to go and do whatever you want in this country. Inner city AA need to have better parenting take responsibility and move away from their culture of violence and crime.

Explain why, succinctly and honestly, since they have no excuse, "inner city AAs" are more violent and hateful than other people, aren't good parents, don't take responsibility, and don't move away from a culture of violence and crime?

Like zi said--Im here for solutions. Im not here to answer for anything other than responsibility of all people. Mpst people have issues in the US not just black people--its not an exclusive club. Black people need to help find solutions to inner city violence along with all other races. Thats your answer

You are definitely not here for solutions BRIGGS, you are a 1-way shouter who has zero interest in discussion or idea sharing or solutions. You don't seem to base your opinion on facts, you just throw out made up stats and conclusions that rely upon your feelings. That's it.

If you want to develop solutions, start answering some questions, do some research and post some substantiated opinion based on fact, and discuss with others who obviously also want to be a part of the solution.

You are a middle aged white male who seemingly lives in a cocoon in CT, feel free to incorporate the opinion of others if you want to get a step closer to a solution, you don't seem to even read what others are posting.

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jrodmc
Posts: 30601
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9/18/2017  11:14 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topic

off-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.

That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...

I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.

Having toxic, stupid **** on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.

and briggs opinion to be expressed as well. just because you view something as "toxic, stuipd ****" doesn't mean you are any more correct than briggs. you are no better than anyone on this forum.

You misunderstand the United States of America.

'Freedom of speech' was never meant to be interpreted as 'Equivalency of ideas'.

This country is founded on the fact that we have better ideas than others. We didn't identify the idea that 'all men are created equal' was our opinion, but that 'hey we respect anyone who thinks differently.' We identified it as a self-evident objective truth.

We fight wars, including a civil one, over ideas. We believe the ideas of other countries are flat-out wrong in areas like human rights.

People need to get off their low horse and understand our country is not about any idiot's ideas is just good as valuable as anyone else's.

That's about as anti-American as you can get.

Funny, "all men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights" The founders already knew the inherent contradictions in that statement, given the status of slavery in the land at the time of founding. Black Africans were also enslaving and selling their own people as well. The Civil War was the bloody result that Jefferson foretold in his Notes on Virginia, despite his unenlightened views on racial differences. Which, by the way, were retold by Darwin a century later in the Descent of Man.

Your better idea was a return to a certain transcending truth (that you conveniently don't mention) that was supposed to have been abolished in 1648 when the powers that be got tired of fighting religious war after religious war. It wasn't elevating a bunch of colonials with better ideas, the country was founded on the fact that not even the divine right of kings could usurp the ultimate authority, the ultimate Creator of "ideas" and "words".

You identify that all men as created equal and then contradict yourself by identifying some men as inept, toxic, sheehit-spouting idiots who don't deserve a seat at your table. Interesting.

Hail the Nietzchean Superman! Please let us know who qualifies for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

The anthem is an accepted societal practice of respecting the symbol of the country. Neither of which are laws at this time. You are free to disrespect the flag, stand upside down and pee yourself during the anthem or otherwise protest within the boundaries of the laws of the land. Just don't act like you're not doing anything disrespectful. You can say you're protesting, striving to be free, striving to right the wrongs of the ages, just don't try and justify it as anything other than a protest through disrespect.

The country was founded on protesting and disrespecting the societal and cultural norm of divine royalty. But nobody tried to justify it as anything else.

You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
anrst
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9/18/2017  11:47 AM
Athletes need to stick to sports.

Standing for the anthem -- just like sitting for anthem -- is not sticking to sports.

Athletes should stay in their lane.

Stay in the locker room and/or clubhouse while the anthem is playing.

martin
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9/18/2017  11:49 AM
anrst wrote:Athletes need to stick to sports.

Standing for the anthem -- just like sitting for anthem -- is not sticking to sports.

Athletes should stay in their lane.

Stay in the locker room and/or clubhouse while the anthem is playing.

why?

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Knickoftime
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9/18/2017  12:11 PM
jrodmc wrote:You identify that all men as created equal and then contradict yourself by identifying some men as inept, toxic, sheehit-spouting idiots who don't deserve a seat at your table. Interesting.

I'd be surprised if you actually believe this. I'd be surprised if you actually think all men are created equal is meant to be interpreted as all men have equal ability.

Do you really believe in that equivalency?

Please let us know who qualifies for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Everyone does. Doesn't mean all men are qualified to build bridges. I'm not.

Doesn't mean all men are able to play in the NBA. I can't.

Doesn't mean all men can mount and maintain a rational, fact-based argument about race in the United States and participate in a conversation. Briggs can't.

There's no contradiction here, and I think you know it.

The anthem is an accepted societal practice of respecting the symbol of the country. Neither of which are laws at this time. You are free to disrespect the flag, stand upside down and pee yourself during the anthem or otherwise protest within the boundaries of the laws of the land. Just don't act like you're not doing anything disrespectful. You can say you're protesting, striving to be free, striving to right the wrongs of the ages, just don't try and justify it as anything other than a protest through disrespect.

Who are you referring to? No one here is. I think everyone here would agree the purpose of the protest is exactly as you described, just as when people burned the flag in the 60s and 70s to protest the Vietnam War.

The actual argument here is the intent is not to disrespect servicemen and women of the Armed Forces. The accepted societal practice is NOT in their honor, and nobody's intent is to dishonor them specifically, which is the actual substance of what is been discussed in this thread.

The country was founded on protesting and disrespecting the societal and cultural norm of divine royalty. But nobody tried to justify it as anything else.

Agreed, and people bringing servicemen and women into the argument are in fact using them as a political pawns, which is in fact the real disrespect here.

newyorknewyork
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9/18/2017  12:22 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
fishmike wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topic

off-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.

That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...

I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.

Having toxic, stupid **** on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.

That doesn't help me. What to do?

The first step in persuasion is to get that misinformed and under-educated out there.

I suspect If I ever referred to black people on this forum, here specifically or anywhere generally, with the N-word, what would happen.

Briggs has directly referred to black people generally as being hateful, violent and scary. He lately has qualified that as "inner city AAs." At the same time he posts YouTube videos of violent outbursts that didn't occur in "inner city." He has rejected our nation's history as a factor in crime and violence, suggesting anyone in this country regardless of circumstance has equal opportunity. He may not have the courage to put those thoughts together, but the implication is clear.

We are now holding a discourse in a thread that has nothing to do with "inner city AAs", but his problems with black people of an entirely different demo.

Who he is is clear, by his own words.

As an American, I fully support his right to go about his life without fear of reprisal, imprisonment or taxation over his views from any government agency, which is the extent of his First Amendment rights. And independent of the views he holds, he doesn't even attempt to engage in discussion, so he would not be welcome in my home. If I were president of the club he would not be welcome as a member, if I an employer he would not be welcome as an employee.

As I say, I don't know how the sum total of his thoughts and words is any less offensive to the one thing that would get any of us removed from the premises.


Sorry Knickstime--Id say roughly 75% of non AA feel the same way--and the majority of police. And the other 25% well they can go hang out in their local inner city projects and see how they are treated if they spend a few hours there.

When you make up statistics out of thin air, you show yourself incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

But the excuse that black people are oppressed in 2017 is about a big of farce as you can get. You are free to go and do whatever you want in this country. Inner city AA need to have better parenting take responsibility and move away from their culture of violence and crime.

Okay, here is where you need to be brave. Explain why succinctly and honestly, since they have no excuse, "inner city AAs" are more violent and hateful than other people, aren't good parents, don't take responsibility, and don't move away from a culture of violence and crime?

The shouldn't be a difficult question answer, and there should be little to no hedging on your part.

answer what?

knicks time --- Colon K protests because of the perceived treatment of AA y police-- but answer why do you think police act the perceives way they do? It's ok to protest but exactly what is the solution? Why is the behavior of the police the way it is? And if you need to protest the police-- why choose a military anthem??? You won't answer my question-- Colin k protests because of perceived abuse against Aa by police-- why do the police act this way and how many cops are we talking about here-- also what's your solution to the problem -- I've given u my reasons but I'd bet a few bucks you'll be quiet now

Good stuff Briggs... first the poor treatment is "perceived" then you go back to your favorite rallying point that the unfair treatment is deserved in the first place. Time to post for more youtube videos of black people doing bad things.

Thats not an answer

The question is --if Colin K is protesting perceived police violence against AA--why do you think police act this way and than what is the solution to the issue. What is Colin's solution to the issue? Has he talked to the police? Has anyone talked with police?

This is what protocol has been established for. The protest are for the failure to follow protocol, leading toward things like excessive force, leading to the death of unarmed civilians. Then followed up with the lack of accountability for the breach in protocol.

The solution is for protocol to be followed. And for police to be held accountable when they breach protocol especially leading to the death of a human being.

Nix has offered tons and tons and tons of material on "causation" which you don't care for. But expect "causation" to be acknowledged when its convenient towards your argument.

Not to mention we have police officers themselves outing their departments over serious racism issues.

There is no way you realistically can look at the whole process of law enforcement to the judicial system and come away thinking that it has been fair to African Americans.

Does protocol factor in long term emotional distress? Does protocol factor in the fear of losing your life? Does protocol factor in spontaneous live action(possibly alone and outnumbered?)? Do you think most of these cops who have shot people of any race really wanted to do what they did--or maybe theyre were additional circumstance that go beyond protocol? Do you think cops leave their home and go to work thinking Im going to kill someone today? You're thinking from one side. AA on a % basis cause more crime and live in more dangerous areas--areas where police must have long term emotional distress on those beats. You're answering the question like a robot---protocol is part of a much more complex solution--but no where near a solution.

Interesting now your claiming causation & victimization. What your saying is a cops environment can weigh heavy on his mental process leading him to make questionable decisions away from protocol. The irony. What if I replied everyone in the police force has an opportunity to do the right thing. Police need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and change their culture of policing. They need to stop pointing fingers at others for their failures. Would be about the same level of empathy AA have been shown by you throughout.

If its that hard for cops who have been mentally analyzed, trained, disciplined, and paid. That hard for them to overcome this environment. Imagine how it must be for a kid growing up in this environment.

Also do you have anything to back up the claims of fear though Briggs? Like data from a study done on police mental well being? I have seen a lot more power tripping then fear. When like 10 officers were restraining M.Brown and he was crying out I can't breath. They continued to strangle him to death while other officers watched. All because they were afraid and Mr. Brown was putting all of their lives at risk? Freddie Gray died in a coma with injuries to his spinal cord. Medical investigation ruled it a homicide due to officers not following proper protocol after hand already hand cuffing Mr Gray. These deaths were easily avoidable.

Or how about Laquan Mcdonald who was shot 16 times and cops were indited because they lied about what happen.

The indictment further alleges that the officers lied when they said McDonald ignored Van Dyke's verbal commands and that one of the officers signed off on a report that claimed the other two officers were, in fact, victims of an attack by McDonald.

"The co-conspirators created police reports in the critical early hours and days following the killing of Laquan McDonald that contained important false information," the indictment said.

The city's Mayor Rahm Emanuel had fought to keep the video of the shooting sealed, but a court ordered its release in November 2015.

The video sparked massive demonstrations, cost the police superintendent his job and left the city scrambling to implement reforms to regain shattered public trust.

The sad part is that policing is just one layer. What about the Judicial system Briggs? I have provided much information displaying how unjust it is with no response from you. What effect do you think a lack of trust in the judicial system and police force can have on a society?

HofstraBBall
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9/18/2017  12:24 PM
anrst wrote:Athletes need to stick to sports.

Standing for the anthem -- just like sitting for anthem -- is not sticking to sports.

Athletes should stay in their lane.

Stay in the locker room and/or clubhouse while the anthem is playing.

Yet people complain about athletes not doing more? Using your talent and notoriety in a meaningless sport to bring awareness to a human struggle or injustice is noble. Maybe the guys that should stay in their lane should be the coward know it all fans who have done nothing in life and like to knock those who have and are making an effort to change some wrongs.

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
anrst
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9/18/2017  12:33 PM
martin wrote:
anrst wrote:Athletes need to stick to sports.

Standing for the anthem -- just like sitting for anthem -- is not sticking to sports.

Athletes should stay in their lane.

Stay in the locker room and/or clubhouse while the anthem is playing.

why?

i think yall missed my sarcasm.

i was being ridiculous on purpose. making the point that if you think athlete is outta his lane sitting, than you should also have a problem with one of them standing.

Knickoftime
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9/18/2017  12:34 PM
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-national-anthem-sports-20160611-snap-story.html

USC, UCLA and the Rose Bowl also don't have formal policies barring visitors from buying food or rushing to their seats. At the Honda Center in Anaheim, some employees remove their hats and stand at attention. But for the most part at an L.A. Kiss arena football game there, tickets moved and Bud Lights poured as the rockets cast their red glare. One Sunday, Angel Stadium's home plate entry gates halted for the anthem but people who'd just entered didn't as Dippin’ Dots beckoned.
martin
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USA
9/18/2017  12:48 PM
anrst wrote:
martin wrote:
anrst wrote:Athletes need to stick to sports.

Standing for the anthem -- just like sitting for anthem -- is not sticking to sports.

Athletes should stay in their lane.

Stay in the locker room and/or clubhouse while the anthem is playing.

why?

i think yall missed my sarcasm.

i was being ridiculous on purpose. making the point that if you think athlete is outta his lane sitting, than you should also have a problem with one of them standing.

best be a bit more overt next time

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blkexec
Posts: 24131
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Member: #748
9/18/2017  1:11 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
anrst wrote:Athletes need to stick to sports.

Standing for the anthem -- just like sitting for anthem -- is not sticking to sports.

Athletes should stay in their lane.

Stay in the locker room and/or clubhouse while the anthem is playing.

Yet people complain about athletes not doing more? Using your talent and notoriety in a meaningless sport to bring awareness to a human struggle or injustice is noble. Maybe the guys that should stay in their lane should be the coward know it all fans who have done nothing in life and like to knock those who have and are making an effort to change some wrongs.

+1000000

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
Uptown
Posts: 26283
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9/18/2017  1:15 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
fishmike wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topic

off-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.

That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...

I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.

Having toxic, stupid **** on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.

That doesn't help me. What to do?

The first step in persuasion is to get that misinformed and under-educated out there.

I suspect If I ever referred to black people on this forum, here specifically or anywhere generally, with the N-word, what would happen.

Briggs has directly referred to black people generally as being hateful, violent and scary. He lately has qualified that as "inner city AAs." At the same time he posts YouTube videos of violent outbursts that didn't occur in "inner city." He has rejected our nation's history as a factor in crime and violence, suggesting anyone in this country regardless of circumstance has equal opportunity. He may not have the courage to put those thoughts together, but the implication is clear.

We are now holding a discourse in a thread that has nothing to do with "inner city AAs", but his problems with black people of an entirely different demo.

Who he is is clear, by his own words.

As an American, I fully support his right to go about his life without fear of reprisal, imprisonment or taxation over his views from any government agency, which is the extent of his First Amendment rights. And independent of the views he holds, he doesn't even attempt to engage in discussion, so he would not be welcome in my home. If I were president of the club he would not be welcome as a member, if I an employer he would not be welcome as an employee.

As I say, I don't know how the sum total of his thoughts and words is any less offensive to the one thing that would get any of us removed from the premises.


Sorry Knickstime--Id say roughly 75% of non AA feel the same way--and the majority of police. And the other 25% well they can go hang out in their local inner city projects and see how they are treated if they spend a few hours there.

When you make up statistics out of thin air, you show yourself incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

But the excuse that black people are oppressed in 2017 is about a big of farce as you can get. You are free to go and do whatever you want in this country. Inner city AA need to have better parenting take responsibility and move away from their culture of violence and crime.

Okay, here is where you need to be brave. Explain why succinctly and honestly, since they have no excuse, "inner city AAs" are more violent and hateful than other people, aren't good parents, don't take responsibility, and don't move away from a culture of violence and crime?

The shouldn't be a difficult question answer, and there should be little to no hedging on your part.

answer what?

knicks time --- Colon K protests because of the perceived treatment of AA y police-- but answer why do you think police act the perceives way they do? It's ok to protest but exactly what is the solution? Why is the behavior of the police the way it is? And if you need to protest the police-- why choose a military anthem??? You won't answer my question-- Colin k protests because of perceived abuse against Aa by police-- why do the police act this way and how many cops are we talking about here-- also what's your solution to the problem -- I've given u my reasons but I'd bet a few bucks you'll be quiet now

Good stuff Briggs... first the poor treatment is "perceived" then you go back to your favorite rallying point that the unfair treatment is deserved in the first place. Time to post for more youtube videos of black people doing bad things.

Thats not an answer

The question is --if Colin K is protesting perceived police violence against AA--why do you think police act this way and than what is the solution to the issue. What is Colin's solution to the issue? Has he talked to the police? Has anyone talked with police?

This is what protocol has been established for. The protest are for the failure to follow protocol, leading toward things like excessive force, leading to the death of unarmed civilians. Then followed up with the lack of accountability for the breach in protocol.

The solution is for protocol to be followed. And for police to be held accountable when they breach protocol especially leading to the death of a human being.

Nix has offered tons and tons and tons of material on "causation" which you don't care for. But expect "causation" to be acknowledged when its convenient towards your argument.

Not to mention we have police officers themselves outing their departments over serious racism issues.

There is no way you realistically can look at the whole process of law enforcement to the judicial system and come away thinking that it has been fair to African Americans.

Does protocol factor in long term emotional distress? Does protocol factor in the fear of losing your life? Does protocol factor in spontaneous live action(possibly alone and outnumbered?)? Do you think most of these cops who have shot people of any race really wanted to do what they did--or maybe theyre were additional circumstance that go beyond protocol? Do you think cops leave their home and go to work thinking Im going to kill someone today? You're thinking from one side. AA on a % basis cause more crime and live in more dangerous areas--areas where police must have long term emotional distress on those beats. You're answering the question like a robot---protocol is part of a much more complex solution--but no where near a solution.

Interesting now your claiming causation & victimization. What your saying is a cops environment can weigh heavy on his mental process leading him to make questionable decisions away from protocol. The irony. What if I replied everyone in the police force has an opportunity to do the right thing. Police need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and change their culture of policing. They need to stop pointing fingers at others for their failures. Would be about the same level of empathy AA have been shown by you throughout.

If its that hard for cops who have been mentally analyzed, trained, disciplined, and paid. That hard for them to overcome this environment. Imagine how it must be for a kid growing up in this environment.

Also do you have anything to back up the claims of fear though Briggs? Like data from a study done on police mental well being? I have seen a lot more power tripping then fear. When like 10 officers were restraining M.Brown and he was crying out I can't breath. They continued to strangle him to death while other officers watched. All because they were afraid and Mr. Brown was putting all of their lives at risk? Freddie Gray died in a coma with injuries to his spinal cord. Medical investigation ruled it a homicide due to officers not following proper protocol after hand already hand cuffing Mr Gray. These deaths were easily avoidable.

Or how about Laquan Mcdonald who was shot 16 times and cops were indited because they lied about what happen.

The indictment further alleges that the officers lied when they said McDonald ignored Van Dyke's verbal commands and that one of the officers signed off on a report that claimed the other two officers were, in fact, victims of an attack by McDonald.

"The co-conspirators created police reports in the critical early hours and days following the killing of Laquan McDonald that contained important false information," the indictment said.

The city's Mayor Rahm Emanuel had fought to keep the video of the shooting sealed, but a court ordered its release in November 2015.

The video sparked massive demonstrations, cost the police superintendent his job and left the city scrambling to implement reforms to regain shattered public trust.

The sad part is that policing is just one layer. What about the Judicial system Briggs? I have provided much information displaying how unjust it is with no response from you. What effect do you think a lack of trust in the judicial system and police force can have on a society?

Excellent points...and in each case, each police officer was acquitted. Systematic and judicial racism is prevalent. But just like your previous posts, this too will be ignored by Briggs or he will simply move the goal posts.

newyorknewyork
Posts: 27058
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
9/18/2017  2:03 PM
Uptown wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
fishmike wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topic

off-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.

That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...

I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.

Having toxic, stupid **** on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.

That doesn't help me. What to do?

The first step in persuasion is to get that misinformed and under-educated out there.

I suspect If I ever referred to black people on this forum, here specifically or anywhere generally, with the N-word, what would happen.

Briggs has directly referred to black people generally as being hateful, violent and scary. He lately has qualified that as "inner city AAs." At the same time he posts YouTube videos of violent outbursts that didn't occur in "inner city." He has rejected our nation's history as a factor in crime and violence, suggesting anyone in this country regardless of circumstance has equal opportunity. He may not have the courage to put those thoughts together, but the implication is clear.

We are now holding a discourse in a thread that has nothing to do with "inner city AAs", but his problems with black people of an entirely different demo.

Who he is is clear, by his own words.

As an American, I fully support his right to go about his life without fear of reprisal, imprisonment or taxation over his views from any government agency, which is the extent of his First Amendment rights. And independent of the views he holds, he doesn't even attempt to engage in discussion, so he would not be welcome in my home. If I were president of the club he would not be welcome as a member, if I an employer he would not be welcome as an employee.

As I say, I don't know how the sum total of his thoughts and words is any less offensive to the one thing that would get any of us removed from the premises.


Sorry Knickstime--Id say roughly 75% of non AA feel the same way--and the majority of police. And the other 25% well they can go hang out in their local inner city projects and see how they are treated if they spend a few hours there.

When you make up statistics out of thin air, you show yourself incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

But the excuse that black people are oppressed in 2017 is about a big of farce as you can get. You are free to go and do whatever you want in this country. Inner city AA need to have better parenting take responsibility and move away from their culture of violence and crime.

Okay, here is where you need to be brave. Explain why succinctly and honestly, since they have no excuse, "inner city AAs" are more violent and hateful than other people, aren't good parents, don't take responsibility, and don't move away from a culture of violence and crime?

The shouldn't be a difficult question answer, and there should be little to no hedging on your part.

answer what?

knicks time --- Colon K protests because of the perceived treatment of AA y police-- but answer why do you think police act the perceives way they do? It's ok to protest but exactly what is the solution? Why is the behavior of the police the way it is? And if you need to protest the police-- why choose a military anthem??? You won't answer my question-- Colin k protests because of perceived abuse against Aa by police-- why do the police act this way and how many cops are we talking about here-- also what's your solution to the problem -- I've given u my reasons but I'd bet a few bucks you'll be quiet now

Good stuff Briggs... first the poor treatment is "perceived" then you go back to your favorite rallying point that the unfair treatment is deserved in the first place. Time to post for more youtube videos of black people doing bad things.

Thats not an answer

The question is --if Colin K is protesting perceived police violence against AA--why do you think police act this way and than what is the solution to the issue. What is Colin's solution to the issue? Has he talked to the police? Has anyone talked with police?

This is what protocol has been established for. The protest are for the failure to follow protocol, leading toward things like excessive force, leading to the death of unarmed civilians. Then followed up with the lack of accountability for the breach in protocol.

The solution is for protocol to be followed. And for police to be held accountable when they breach protocol especially leading to the death of a human being.

Nix has offered tons and tons and tons of material on "causation" which you don't care for. But expect "causation" to be acknowledged when its convenient towards your argument.

Not to mention we have police officers themselves outing their departments over serious racism issues.

There is no way you realistically can look at the whole process of law enforcement to the judicial system and come away thinking that it has been fair to African Americans.

Does protocol factor in long term emotional distress? Does protocol factor in the fear of losing your life? Does protocol factor in spontaneous live action(possibly alone and outnumbered?)? Do you think most of these cops who have shot people of any race really wanted to do what they did--or maybe theyre were additional circumstance that go beyond protocol? Do you think cops leave their home and go to work thinking Im going to kill someone today? You're thinking from one side. AA on a % basis cause more crime and live in more dangerous areas--areas where police must have long term emotional distress on those beats. You're answering the question like a robot---protocol is part of a much more complex solution--but no where near a solution.

Interesting now your claiming causation & victimization. What your saying is a cops environment can weigh heavy on his mental process leading him to make questionable decisions away from protocol. The irony. What if I replied everyone in the police force has an opportunity to do the right thing. Police need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and change their culture of policing. They need to stop pointing fingers at others for their failures. Would be about the same level of empathy AA have been shown by you throughout.

If its that hard for cops who have been mentally analyzed, trained, disciplined, and paid. That hard for them to overcome this environment. Imagine how it must be for a kid growing up in this environment.

Also do you have anything to back up the claims of fear though Briggs? Like data from a study done on police mental well being? I have seen a lot more power tripping then fear. When like 10 officers were restraining M.Brown and he was crying out I can't breath. They continued to strangle him to death while other officers watched. All because they were afraid and Mr. Brown was putting all of their lives at risk? Freddie Gray died in a coma with injuries to his spinal cord. Medical investigation ruled it a homicide due to officers not following proper protocol after hand already hand cuffing Mr Gray. These deaths were easily avoidable.

Or how about Laquan Mcdonald who was shot 16 times and cops were indited because they lied about what happen.

The indictment further alleges that the officers lied when they said McDonald ignored Van Dyke's verbal commands and that one of the officers signed off on a report that claimed the other two officers were, in fact, victims of an attack by McDonald.

"The co-conspirators created police reports in the critical early hours and days following the killing of Laquan McDonald that contained important false information," the indictment said.

The city's Mayor Rahm Emanuel had fought to keep the video of the shooting sealed, but a court ordered its release in November 2015.

The video sparked massive demonstrations, cost the police superintendent his job and left the city scrambling to implement reforms to regain shattered public trust.

The sad part is that policing is just one layer. What about the Judicial system Briggs? I have provided much information displaying how unjust it is with no response from you. What effect do you think a lack of trust in the judicial system and police force can have on a society?

Excellent points...and in each case, each police officer was acquitted. Systematic and judicial racism is prevalent. But just like your previous posts, this too will be ignored by Briggs or he will simply move the goal posts.

And there is no instance which a black dude would unjustly kill a cop. Get set free on a shady trial. Then have me claiming well, if Cops changed their behavior....

jskinny35
Posts: 20160
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Member: #928
USA
9/18/2017  2:05 PM
The best way any of us can realistically switch from polar viewpoints is to change our life/experiences. Briggs views expressed here does make me think he has never gotten close enough to the other side/perspective to really understand the complexity of these problems. Black and white, them vs us views don't usually encompass societal problems this troubling and complex. It's funny that this forum debate process is very similar to the Dem/Rep ones earlier involving Trump... So I think it's good that everyone is trying to share their views hoping to shed some light to the other side, however, acknowledged flexibility, less judgment, more patience and a strong willingness/desire to really see the other perspective is needed otherwise it's a waste of time.
djsunyc
Posts: 44547
Alba Posts: 42
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Member: #536
9/18/2017  2:06 PM
BRIGGS wrote:But the excuse that black people are oppressed in 2017 is about a big of farce as you can get. You are free to go and do whatever you want in this country. Inner city AA need to have better parenting take responsibility and move away from their culture of violence and crime.

OT: Standing for the National Anthem

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