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OT: Standing for the National Anthem
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BRIGGS
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9/17/2017  11:43 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/17/2017  11:43 AM
smackeddog wrote:
djsunyc wrote:why does the anthem have to be correlated to armed services?

Because BRIGGS says so, presumably so he can launch another attack on black people

All Ive said is Caucasians Asians and Europeans are scared of inner city AA. That I believe that fear heightens police with AA. What is not the truth--man that is as honest as it gets. Go hang out in the projects with the police 45 hours a week and see how over time your mental well being is. What AA could disagree with this--its no attack--its honesty?????

AUTOADVERT
Vmart
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9/17/2017  11:55 AM
Stand for those that don't discriminate. Not kneel for those that do.
Bonn1997
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9/17/2017  12:16 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:To me the NAtional Anthem is a simple respect of all current and former service members of the military. Those people have tremendous courage and have given millions of lives over 250 years to keep the country safe from foreign opponents. Without them no one here would have a job or safety of a home. It is not a platform to promote an agenda-- there are many other platforms for that. If you don't stand to give a simple thanks for those who have given their lives to provide a better one for you-- it's sad and wrong

Dont like to respond to any of these political threads as this is about sports and is best to keep the forum for that reason. BUT..... I think its strange that there are so many that judge other peoples actions and freedoms to act in a certain way. Your saying that this is offensive to veterans (Although the ones kneeling have said several times that its not meant to disrespect their service) but you fail to comprehend that this is what they fought for. I dont think I would protest in this manner but judging people for deciding to do so is like judging people for not being Christians, going to church, or dressing like you do. I dont think there should be one veteran that is offended by this. If so, then they do not really understand what they were fighting for. Because it sure was not for getting acknowledged at a sporting event.

Keep in mind, their are many that are racists, thiefs, immoral that stand and honor the flag at these events that hide behind the curtain of normal behavior. Fact is, we are not good people for following everything that is standard practice or broadly accepted by the masses. We are good people by the way we truly conduct our lives and our care for ALL human beings. To judge someones character based on how he thinks he should protest against what he thinks to be an immoral practice, is WRONG IMHO.

But how bout them Knicks??

Well said.


Yes definitely
Knickoftime
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9/17/2017  12:23 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
djsunyc wrote:why does the anthem have to be correlated to armed services?

Because BRIGGS says so, presumably so he can launch another attack on black people

All Ive said is Caucasians Asians and Europeans are scared of inner city AA. That I believe that fear heightens police with AA. What is not the truth--man that is as honest as it gets. Go hang out in the projects with the police 45 hours a week and see how over time your mental well being is. What AA could disagree with this--its no attack--its honesty?????

Let's see how brave you are.

Why are they scared of them?

(And since I already know the answer to that question).

WHY are they hateful, violent and scary?

Let's see how brave you are.

Knickoftime
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9/17/2017  12:37 PM
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topic

off-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.

That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...

I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.

Having toxic, stupid **** on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.

That doesn't help me. What to do?

The first step in persuasion is to get that misinformed and under-educated out there.

I suspect If I ever referred to black people on this forum, here specifically or anywhere generally, with the N-word, what would happen.

Briggs has directly referred to black people generally as being hateful, violent and scary. He lately has qualified that as "inner city AAs." At the same time he posts YouTube videos of violent outbursts that didn't occur in "inner city." He has rejected our nation's history as a factor in crime and violence, suggesting anyone in this country regardless of circumstance has equal opportunity. He may not have the courage to put those thoughts together, but the implication is clear.

We are now holding a discourse in a thread that has nothing to do with "inner city AAs", but his problems with black people of an entirely different demo.

Who he is is clear, by his own words.

As an American, I fully support his right to go about his life without fear of reprisal, imprisonment or taxation over his views from any government agency, which is the extent of his First Amendment rights. And independent of the views he holds, he doesn't even attempt to engage in discussion, so he would not be welcome in my home. If I were president of the club he would not be welcome as a member, if I an employer he would not be welcome as an employee.

As I say, I don't know how the sum total of his thoughts and words is any less offensive to the one thing that would get any of us removed from the premises.

smackeddog
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9/17/2017  12:38 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
djsunyc wrote:why does the anthem have to be correlated to armed services?

Because BRIGGS says so, presumably so he can launch another attack on black people

All Ive said is Caucasians Asians and Europeans are scared of inner city AA. That I believe that fear heightens police with AA. What is not the truth--man that is as honest as it gets. Go hang out in the projects with the police 45 hours a week and see how over time your mental well being is. What AA could disagree with this--its no attack--its honesty?????

I don't get your reasoning at all- you seem to be making assumptions about all white people, all Asian people and all Europeans (presumably all races of people in Europe) that they are all making assumptions about all "AA's" and are unable to differenciate between different people within that community, and that it's then all of the "AAs" fault that these other races are unable to do this. And you seem to think this is some sort of ingenious truth. This is the very definition of racism.

And also if someone is scared of all black people, maybe they shouldn't be in the police force- how on earth could they serve and protect that community?!

Knickoftime
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9/17/2017  12:47 PM
nyk4ever wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topic

off-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.

That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...

I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.

Having toxic, stupid **** on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.

and briggs opinion to be expressed as well. just because you view something as "toxic, stuipd ****" doesn't mean you are any more correct than briggs. you are no better than anyone on this forum.

You misunderstand the United States of America.

'Freedom of speech' was never meant to be interpreted as 'Equivalency of ideas'.

This country is founded on the fact that we have better ideas than others. We didn't identify the idea that 'all men are created equal' was our opinion, but that 'hey we respect anyone who thinks differently.' We identified it as a self-evident objective truth.

We fight wars, including a civil one, over ideas. We believe the ideas of other countries are flat-out wrong in areas like human rights.

People need to get off their low horse and understand our country is not about any idiot's ideas is just good as valuable as anyone else's.

That's about as anti-American as you can get.

Knickoftime
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9/17/2017  12:50 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:To me the NAtional Anthem is a simple respect of all current and former service members of the military. Those people have tremendous courage and have given millions of lives over 250 years to keep the country safe from foreign opponents. Without them no one here would have a job or safety of a home. It is not a platform to promote an agenda-- there are many other platforms for that. If you don't stand to give a simple thanks for those who have given their lives to provide a better one for you-- it's sad and wrong

Why do you get to decide for every body what the national anthem means?

Never realized the anthem was open to interpretation. Must be something new

Astute point. The ritual is not a salute/honorarium to servicemen and servicewomen. Never has been. That idea has been co-opted for political means very recently.

nixluva
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9/17/2017  12:52 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
djsunyc wrote:why does the anthem have to be correlated to armed services?

Because BRIGGS says so, presumably so he can launch another attack on black people

All Ive said is Caucasians Asians and Europeans are scared of inner city AA. That I believe that fear heightens police with AA. What is not the truth--man that is as honest as it gets. Go hang out in the projects with the police 45 hours a week and see how over time your mental well being is. What AA could disagree with this--its no attack--its honesty?????


Police Officers take the job knowing that they will be in dangerous situations. I would say that you are WAY over the top in generalizing how someone would feel moving and working in a AA neighborhood. They aren't Mogadishu Somalia or Mosul Iraq during their most violent times. Most White Americans don't really have that much contact with AA's.

As we found yesterday, 93 per cent of black victims were killed by blacks and 84 per cent of white victims were killed by whites.

AA's are NOT more prone to crime or violence. The real issue is the substandard living conditions that AA's have been forced to live under for centuries. Poverty, Lack of Resources, Higher Unemployment and Lower Education has an increased negative impact on AA communities and as i've made abundantly clear that has been a function of the Systemic Racism in this country going back to it's founding. The purposeful corralling of AA's into Ghettos was done on Purpose.

There has been a constant downward pressure inflicted on Minority Communities. It is mostly invisible to White Populations cuz they aren't being subjected to the same factors and don't live in the same areas where the crime festers. The thing is that MORE White Americans are starting to feel the impacts of the changing Economy and lower living conditions. The Greed of Corporate America has exposed the only true universal truth, that CLASS is Colorblind. Poor Whites are taking it right in the gut at an increasing rate. They may not have had to understand how it felt to be treated like AA's have always been treated but they're starting to understand it more.

Still when it comes to Poverty Minorities are dealing with much higher rates and IMO this is a great contributor to the levels of crime and violence.

BRIGGS
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9/17/2017  1:07 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topic

off-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.

That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...

I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.

Having toxic, stupid **** on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.

That doesn't help me. What to do?

The first step in persuasion is to get that misinformed and under-educated out there.

I suspect If I ever referred to black people on this forum, here specifically or anywhere generally, with the N-word, what would happen.

Briggs has directly referred to black people generally as being hateful, violent and scary. He lately has qualified that as "inner city AAs." At the same time he posts YouTube videos of violent outbursts that didn't occur in "inner city." He has rejected our nation's history as a factor in crime and violence, suggesting anyone in this country regardless of circumstance has equal opportunity. He may not have the courage to put those thoughts together, but the implication is clear.

We are now holding a discourse in a thread that has nothing to do with "inner city AAs", but his problems with black people of an entirely different demo.

Who he is is clear, by his own words.

As an American, I fully support his right to go about his life without fear of reprisal, imprisonment or taxation over his views from any government agency, which is the extent of his First Amendment rights. And independent of the views he holds, he doesn't even attempt to engage in discussion, so he would not be welcome in my home. If I were president of the club he would not be welcome as a member, if I an employer he would not be welcome as an employee.

As I say, I don't know how the sum total of his thoughts and words is any less offensive to the one thing that would get any of us removed from the premises.


Sorry Knickstime--Id say roughly 75% of non AA feel the same way--and the majority of police. And the other 25% well they can go hang out in their local inner city projects and see how they are treated if they spend a few hours there. Dont you think there is a reason why police have more confrontations with AA? Instead of pointing the racial finger and accusing what--80-90% of cops that they are racist--wouldnt you rather look into a cause? What do you think happens in the brain of a man or woman who works 40-60 hours a week in crime invested zones? Do you think fear and hatred build up? My guess yes. Is it their job yes--do many do it as best as they can? Im sure--are their bad apples--every job has bad apples. But the excuse that black people are oppressed in 2017 is about a big of farce as you can get. You are free to go and do whatever you want in this country. Inner city AA need to have better parenting take responsibility and move away from their culture of violence and crime. They need help from the government with infrastructure(and again Obabma blew it with 8 years to help) and all other people and I think most of the non AA(me included) would easily vote to help these folks. I write these posts as cause effect and possible solution--Im not looking for popularity. And despite you vitriol back--you're more than welcome to hang out with me for a day---get a beer and see who I am. I dont bite and Im not a bad person. I would easily welcome you into my home. I would welcome smackeddog into my home. It's ok to not agree with a point of view but Im not going to hold it against anyone.

newyorknewyork
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9/17/2017  1:27 PM
nixluva wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
djsunyc wrote:why does the anthem have to be correlated to armed services?

Because BRIGGS says so, presumably so he can launch another attack on black people

All Ive said is Caucasians Asians and Europeans are scared of inner city AA. That I believe that fear heightens police with AA. What is not the truth--man that is as honest as it gets. Go hang out in the projects with the police 45 hours a week and see how over time your mental well being is. What AA could disagree with this--its no attack--its honesty?????


Police Officers take the job knowing that they will be in dangerous situations. I would say that you are WAY over the top in generalizing how someone would feel moving and working in a AA neighborhood. They aren't Mogadishu Somalia or Mosul Iraq during their most violent times. Most White Americans don't really have that much contact with AA's.

As we found yesterday, 93 per cent of black victims were killed by blacks and 84 per cent of white victims were killed by whites.

AA's are NOT more prone to crime or violence. The real issue is the substandard living conditions that AA's have been forced to live under for centuries. Poverty, Lack of Resources, Higher Unemployment and Lower Education has an increased negative impact on AA communities and as i've made abundantly clear that has been a function of the Systemic Racism in this country going back to it's founding. The purposeful corralling of AA's into Ghettos was done on Purpose.

There has been a constant downward pressure inflicted on Minority Communities. It is mostly invisible to White Populations cuz they aren't being subjected to the same factors and don't live in the same areas where the crime festers. The thing is that MORE White Americans are starting to feel the impacts of the changing Economy and lower living conditions. The Greed of Corporate America has exposed the only true universal truth, that CLASS is Colorblind. Poor Whites are taking it right in the gut at an increasing rate. They may not have had to understand how it felt to be treated like AA's have always been treated but they're starting to understand it more.

Still when it comes to Poverty Minorities are dealing with much higher rates and IMO this is a great contributor to the levels of crime and violence.

Nix while I love the history that you always present. These methods alone aren't going to reach people. Needs to be combined with current policies.

Like

The first is that bail “disproportionately harms” African-Americans and Latinos, who often face higher bail requirements than white defendants. A May study by three Princeton academics is only the latest to find racial disparities in bail setting.

The second is that a federal law passed in 1833 banned “debtor prisons.” In 1983, in the Bearden v. Georgia case, the U.S. Supreme Court said that in deciding whom to jail or imprison for unpaid fines, judges needed to make a distinction between people who had the means to pay but refused and those who didn’t have the means to pay.

The 1833 law and the 1983 ruling are not ambiguous. Yet in 2014, a comprehensive NPR report found that in state after state not only were people routinely jailed for unpaid fines, there have been sharp increases in the size of fines and related court fees. Given that one 2016 survey found 69 percent of Americans had less than $1,000 in savings, the NPR report makes it seem as if creating debtor prisons is an unofficial national policy.

And

"Our justice system was designed with a promise: to treat all people equally," Harris was quoted saying in a news release. "Yet more than 450,000 Americans sit in jail today awaiting trial and many of them cannot afford 'money bail.' In our country, whether you stay in jail or not is wholly determined by whether you're wealthy or not -- and that's wrong."

And

Among the findings:
• Florida’s sentencing system is broken. When defendants score the same points in the formula used to set criminal punishments — indicating they should receive equal sentences — blacks spend far longer behind bars. There is no consistency between judges in Tallahassee and those in Sarasota.
• The war on drugs exacerbates racial disparities. Police target poor black neighborhoods, funneling more minorities into the system. Once in court, judges are tougher on black drug offenders every step of the way. Nearly half the counties in Florida sentence blacks convicted of felony drug possession to more than double the time of whites, even when their backgrounds are the same.
• Florida's state courts lack diversity, and it matters when it comes to sentencing. Blacks make up 16 percent of Florida’s population and one-third of the state’s prison inmates. But fewer than 7 percent of sitting judges are black and less than half of them preside over serious felonies. White judges in Florida sentence black defendants to 20 percent more time on average for third-degree felonies. Blacks who wear the robe give more balanced punishments.
• There’s little oversight of judges in Florida. The courts keep a wealth of data on criminal defendants. So does the prison system. But no one uses the data to review racial disparities in sentencing. Judges themselves don’t know their own tendencies.

And

Everything should be simple. Rarely is that the case. Plea bargains reflect the confluence of two independent questions. The first question is whether a defendant committed the crime charged, or a lesser variant. In other words, is he guilty, and if so, of what.

The second question is what are the appropriate consequences for the crime that was, in actuality, committed. Note that it’s not necessarily punishment, though few recognize that retribution is but one of the legitimate factors that should be considered in sentencing.

Plea bargains conflate the two issues, playing one off against the other. Plea bargains reflect the most cynical view of the criminal justice system possible, that the threat of draconian punishment coerces a person to admit to the commission of a crime he didn’t commit to avoid the possibility of EXCESSIVE consequences.

Knickoftime
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9/17/2017  1:41 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:
dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topic

off-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.

That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...

I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.

Having toxic, stupid **** on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.

That doesn't help me. What to do?

The first step in persuasion is to get that misinformed and under-educated out there.

I suspect If I ever referred to black people on this forum, here specifically or anywhere generally, with the N-word, what would happen.

Briggs has directly referred to black people generally as being hateful, violent and scary. He lately has qualified that as "inner city AAs." At the same time he posts YouTube videos of violent outbursts that didn't occur in "inner city." He has rejected our nation's history as a factor in crime and violence, suggesting anyone in this country regardless of circumstance has equal opportunity. He may not have the courage to put those thoughts together, but the implication is clear.

We are now holding a discourse in a thread that has nothing to do with "inner city AAs", but his problems with black people of an entirely different demo.

Who he is is clear, by his own words.

As an American, I fully support his right to go about his life without fear of reprisal, imprisonment or taxation over his views from any government agency, which is the extent of his First Amendment rights. And independent of the views he holds, he doesn't even attempt to engage in discussion, so he would not be welcome in my home. If I were president of the club he would not be welcome as a member, if I an employer he would not be welcome as an employee.

As I say, I don't know how the sum total of his thoughts and words is any less offensive to the one thing that would get any of us removed from the premises.


Sorry Knickstime--Id say roughly 75% of non AA feel the same way--and the majority of police. And the other 25% well they can go hang out in their local inner city projects and see how they are treated if they spend a few hours there.

When you make up statistics out of thin air, you show yourself incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

But the excuse that black people are oppressed in 2017 is about a big of farce as you can get. You are free to go and do whatever you want in this country. Inner city AA need to have better parenting take responsibility and move away from their culture of violence and crime.

Okay, here is where you need to be brave. Explain why succinctly and honestly, since they have no excuse, "inner city AAs" are more violent and hateful than other people, aren't good parents, don't take responsibility, and don't move away from a culture of violence and crime?

The shouldn't be a difficult question answer, and there should be little to no hedging on your part.

GustavBahler
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9/17/2017  1:44 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
djsunyc wrote:why does the anthem have to be correlated to armed services?

Because BRIGGS says so, presumably so he can launch another attack on black people

All Ive said is Caucasians Asians and Europeans are scared of inner city AA. That I believe that fear heightens police with AA. What is not the truth--man that is as honest as it gets. Go hang out in the projects with the police 45 hours a week and see how over time your mental well being is. What AA could disagree with this--its no attack--its honesty?????

Speak for yourself Briggs. As far as mental health, its the residents of inner city communities who suffer the most mental health problems dealing with cops who often have no business wearing a badge. You live in a bubble.

NardDogNation
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9/17/2017  2:07 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
djsunyc wrote:why does the anthem have to be correlated to armed services?

Because BRIGGS says so, presumably so he can launch another attack on black people

All Ive said is Caucasians Asians and Europeans are scared of inner city AA. That I believe that fear heightens police with AA. What is not the truth--man that is as honest as it gets. Go hang out in the projects with the police 45 hours a week and see how over time your mental well being is. What AA could disagree with this--its no attack--its honesty?????

Is that why the inner city culture you associate with "AA" is as marketable as it is? Is that why our current franchise player, born in a country like Latvia, was rocking cornrows as a youth? Seems like your fear might be yours and yours alone.

Bonn1997
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9/17/2017  2:25 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:To me the NAtional Anthem is a simple respect of all current and former service members of the military. Those people have tremendous courage and have given millions of lives over 250 years to keep the country safe from foreign opponents. Without them no one here would have a job or safety of a home. It is not a platform to promote an agenda-- there are many other platforms for that. If you don't stand to give a simple thanks for those who have given their lives to provide a better one for you-- it's sad and wrong

Why do you get to decide for every body what the national anthem means?

Never realized the anthem was open to interpretation. Must be something new


Obviously it is - since Briggs came up with this stuff
fishmike
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9/17/2017  2:42 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
djsunyc wrote:why does the anthem have to be correlated to armed services? and why does the anthem have to be played at sporting events? but thats another discussion.

what % of military joined bc they had no other options? nationalistic pride is there but there are also other reasons folks join the military. it's not a coincidence that most of the military is made up of economically challenged individuals or those without higher education. the military is a business now like everything else.

It was designated our national anthem 100 years ago but it's origins are well over 200 years.
It's an act of respect for the freedoms we have. Is there anyone in the us. Imposing they are not free to come Nd go as they choose? It's a show of national unity in an imperfect world -- how someone can it as a platform of protest is insane. If I have a problem with police-- my constitutional rights allows me to " vote" go to the source and protest peacefully-- and while I have the right to sit during the national anthem I choose respect for these same freedoms. It is 100% sa religious to sit during the national anthem in the military -- but at least you can if you so choose-- go try that in a. Inch of other countries and see if you live to talk about it

freedoms YOU have. Your sons and daughters are not shot in their cars by cops. That is what you fail to see. Anything aside from your point of view. Your too busy patting yourself on the back and telling everyone you have the cojones to say whats on your mind. However whats on your mind is racism 101. Your still in 098.
fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
StarksEwing1
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9/17/2017  2:45 PM
Bottom line is that if you are living in this country you stand up and show respect to the country when the anthem is playing.
Knickoftime
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9/17/2017  2:49 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:Bottom line is that if you are living in this country you stand up and show respect to the country when the anthem is playing.

Or?

Uptown
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9/17/2017  2:55 PM
Reading Briggs ignorant posts, cant help but think of this guy....SMH

NardDogNation
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9/17/2017  2:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/17/2017  2:59 PM
Uptown wrote:Reading Briggs ignorant posts, cant help but think of this guy....SMH

Archie Bunker was at least endearing in his own way...

OT: Standing for the National Anthem

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