NardDogNation wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:To me the NAtional Anthem is a simple respect of all current and former service members of the military. Those people have tremendous courage and have given millions of lives over 250 years to keep the country safe from foreign opponents. Without them no one here would have a job or safety of a home. It is not a platform to promote an agenda-- there are many other platforms for that. If you don't stand to give a simple thanks for those who have given their lives to provide a better one for you-- it's sad and wrong

Dont like to respond to any of these political threads as this is about sports and is best to keep the forum for that reason. BUT..... I think its strange that there are so many that judge other peoples actions and freedoms to act in a certain way. Your saying that this is offensive to veterans (Although the ones kneeling have said several times that its not meant to disrespect their service) but you fail to comprehend that this is what they fought for. I dont think I would protest in this manner but judging people for deciding to do so is like judging people for not being Christians, going to church, or dressing like you do. I dont think there should be one veteran that is offended by this. If so, then they do not really understand what they were fighting for. Because it sure was not for getting acknowledged at a sporting event.

Keep in mind, their are many that are racists, thiefs, immoral that stand and honor the flag at these events that hide behind the curtain of normal behavior. Fact is, we are not good people for following everything that is standard practice or broadly accepted by the masses. We are good people by the way we truly conduct our lives and our care for ALL human beings. To judge someones character based on how he thinks he should protest against what he thinks to be an immoral practice, is WRONG IMHO.

But how bout them Knicks??

Well said.

martin wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

martin wrote:

dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topic

off-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.

That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...

I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.

Having toxic, stupid **** on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.

That doesn't help me. What to do?

The first step in persuasion is to get that misinformed and under-educated out there.

I suspect If I ever referred to black people on this forum, here specifically or anywhere generally, with the N-word, what would happen.

Briggs has directly referred to black people generally as being hateful, violent and scary. He lately has qualified that as "inner city AAs." At the same time he posts YouTube videos of violent outbursts that didn't occur in "inner city." He has rejected our nation's history as a factor in crime and violence, suggesting anyone in this country regardless of circumstance has equal opportunity. He may not have the courage to put those thoughts together, but the implication is clear.

We are now holding a discourse in a thread that has nothing to do with "inner city AAs", but his problems with black people of an entirely different demo.

Who he is is clear, by his own words.

As an American, I fully support his right to go about his life without fear of reprisal, imprisonment or taxation over his views from any government agency, which is the extent of his First Amendment rights. And independent of the views he holds, he doesn't even attempt to engage in discussion, so he would not be welcome in my home. If I were president of the club he would not be welcome as a member, if I an employer he would not be welcome as an employee.

As I say, I don't know how the sum total of his thoughts and words is any less offensive to the one thing that would get any of us removed from the premises.

nyk4ever wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

martin wrote:

dacash wrote:why is this here and not kinda off topic

off-season. During season we'd definitely move this appropriately.

That said Martin, it's your choice to make, but my opinion to be expressed...

I loathe the participation trophy era of quote-unquote 'free speech.' We celebrate merely having an opinion, which pretty much anyone with a brainstem has, rather than productive expression of an opinion.

Having toxic, stupid **** on any discussion forum, particularly contributed by people who prove they can't even participate in a discussion, makes it worse, not better, and makes us worse, not better.

and briggs opinion to be expressed as well. just because you view something as "toxic, stuipd ****" doesn't mean you are any more correct than briggs. you are no better than anyone on this forum.

You misunderstand the United States of America.

'Freedom of speech' was never meant to be interpreted as 'Equivalency of ideas'.

This country is founded on the fact that we have better ideas than others. We didn't identify the idea that 'all men are created equal' was our opinion, but that 'hey we respect anyone who thinks differently.' We identified it as a self-evident objective truth.

We fight wars, including a civil one, over ideas. We believe the ideas of other countries are flat-out wrong in areas like human rights.

People need to get off their low horse and understand our country is not about any idiot's ideas is just good as valuable as anyone else's.

That's about as anti-American as you can get.

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

djsunyc wrote:why does the anthem have to be correlated to armed services?

Because BRIGGS says so, presumably so he can launch another attack on black people

All Ive said is Caucasians Asians and Europeans are scared of inner city AA. That I believe that fear heightens police with AA. What is not the truth--man that is as honest as it gets. Go hang out in the projects with the police 45 hours a week and see how over time your mental well being is. What AA could disagree with this--its no attack--its honesty?????

As we found yesterday, 93 per cent of black victims were killed by blacks and 84 per cent of white victims were killed by whites.

AA's are NOT more prone to crime or violence. The real issue is the substandard living conditions that AA's have been forced to live under for centuries. Poverty, Lack of Resources, Higher Unemployment and Lower Education has an increased negative impact on AA communities and as i've made abundantly clear that has been a function of the Systemic Racism in this country going back to it's founding. The purposeful corralling of AA's into Ghettos was done on Purpose.

There has been a constant downward pressure inflicted on Minority Communities. It is mostly invisible to White Populations cuz they aren't being subjected to the same factors and don't live in the same areas where the crime festers. The thing is that MORE White Americans are starting to feel the impacts of the changing Economy and lower living conditions. The Greed of Corporate America has exposed the only true universal truth, that CLASS is Colorblind. Poor Whites are taking it right in the gut at an increasing rate. They may not have had to understand how it felt to be treated like AA's have always been treated but they're starting to understand it more.

Still when it comes to Poverty Minorities are dealing with much higher rates and IMO this is a great contributor to the levels of crime and violence.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

djsunyc wrote:why does the anthem have to be correlated to armed services?

Because BRIGGS says so, presumably so he can launch another attack on black people

All Ive said is Caucasians Asians and Europeans are scared of inner city AA. That I believe that fear heightens police with AA. What is not the truth--man that is as honest as it gets. Go hang out in the projects with the police 45 hours a week and see how over time your mental well being is. What AA could disagree with this--its no attack--its honesty?????

Police Officers take the job knowing that they will be in dangerous situations. I would say that you are WAY over the top in generalizing how someone would feel moving and working in a AA neighborhood. They aren't Mogadishu Somalia or Mosul Iraq during their most violent times. Most White Americans don't really have that much contact with AA's.

As we found yesterday, 93 per cent of black victims were killed by blacks and 84 per cent of white victims were killed by whites.

AA's are NOT more prone to crime or violence. The real issue is the substandard living conditions that AA's have been forced to live under for centuries. Poverty, Lack of Resources, Higher Unemployment and Lower Education has an increased negative impact on AA communities and as i've made abundantly clear that has been a function of the Systemic Racism in this country going back to it's founding. The purposeful corralling of AA's into Ghettos was done on Purpose.

There has been a constant downward pressure inflicted on Minority Communities. It is mostly invisible to White Populations cuz they aren't being subjected to the same factors and don't live in the same areas where the crime festers. The thing is that MORE White Americans are starting to feel the impacts of the changing Economy and lower living conditions. The Greed of Corporate America has exposed the only true universal truth, that CLASS is Colorblind. Poor Whites are taking it right in the gut at an increasing rate. They may not have had to understand how it felt to be treated like AA's have always been treated but they're starting to understand it more.

Still when it comes to Poverty Minorities are dealing with much higher rates and IMO this is a great contributor to the levels of crime and violence.

Nix while I love the history that you always present. These methods alone aren't going to reach people. Needs to be combined with current policies.

Like

The first is that bail “disproportionately harms” African-Americans and Latinos, who often face higher bail requirements than white defendants. A May study by three Princeton academics is only the latest to find racial disparities in bail setting.

The second is that a federal law passed in 1833 banned “debtor prisons.” In 1983, in the Bearden v. Georgia case, the U.S. Supreme Court said that in deciding whom to jail or imprison for unpaid fines, judges needed to make a distinction between people who had the means to pay but refused and those who didn’t have the means to pay.

The 1833 law and the 1983 ruling are not ambiguous. Yet in 2014, a comprehensive NPR report found that in state after state not only were people routinely jailed for unpaid fines, there have been sharp increases in the size of fines and related court fees. Given that one 2016 survey found 69 percent of Americans had less than $1,000 in savings, the NPR report makes it seem as if creating debtor prisons is an unofficial national policy.

And

"Our justice system was designed with a promise: to treat all people equally," Harris was quoted saying in a news release. "Yet more than 450,000 Americans sit in jail today awaiting trial and many of them cannot afford 'money bail.' In our country, whether you stay in jail or not is wholly determined by whether you're wealthy or not -- and that's wrong."

And

Among the findings:
• Florida’s sentencing system is broken. When defendants score the same points in the formula used to set criminal punishments — indicating they should receive equal sentences — blacks spend far longer behind bars. There is no consistency between judges in Tallahassee and those in Sarasota.
• The war on drugs exacerbates racial disparities. Police target poor black neighborhoods, funneling more minorities into the system. Once in court, judges are tougher on black drug offenders every step of the way. Nearly half the counties in Florida sentence blacks convicted of felony drug possession to more than double the time of whites, even when their backgrounds are the same.
• Florida's state courts lack diversity, and it matters when it comes to sentencing. Blacks make up 16 percent of Florida’s population and one-third of the state’s prison inmates. But fewer than 7 percent of sitting judges are black and less than half of them preside over serious felonies. White judges in Florida sentence black defendants to 20 percent more time on average for third-degree felonies. Blacks who wear the robe give more balanced punishments.
• There’s little oversight of judges in Florida. The courts keep a wealth of data on criminal defendants. So does the prison system. But no one uses the data to review racial disparities in sentencing. Judges themselves don’t know their own tendencies.

And

Everything should be simple. Rarely is that the case. Plea bargains reflect the confluence of two independent questions. The first question is whether a defendant committed the crime charged, or a lesser variant. In other words, is he guilty, and if so, of what.

The second question is what are the appropriate consequences for the crime that was, in actuality, committed. Note that it’s not necessarily punishment, though few recognize that retribution is but one of the legitimate factors that should be considered in sentencing.

Plea bargains conflate the two issues, playing one off against the other. Plea bargains reflect the most cynical view of the criminal justice system possible, that the threat of draconian punishment coerces a person to admit to the commission of a crime he didn’t commit to avoid the possibility of EXCESSIVE consequences.

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

djsunyc wrote:why does the anthem have to be correlated to armed services?

Because BRIGGS says so, presumably so he can launch another attack on black people

All Ive said is Caucasians Asians and Europeans are scared of inner city AA. That I believe that fear heightens police with AA. What is not the truth--man that is as honest as it gets. Go hang out in the projects with the police 45 hours a week and see how over time your mental well being is. What AA could disagree with this--its no attack--its honesty?????

Speak for yourself Briggs. As far as mental health, its the residents of inner city communities who suffer the most mental health problems dealing with cops who often have no business wearing a badge. You live in a bubble.

gunsnewing wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:To me the NAtional Anthem is a simple respect of all current and former service members of the military. Those people have tremendous courage and have given millions of lives over 250 years to keep the country safe from foreign opponents. Without them no one here would have a job or safety of a home. It is not a platform to promote an agenda-- there are many other platforms for that. If you don't stand to give a simple thanks for those who have given their lives to provide a better one for you-- it's sad and wrong

Why do you get to decide for every body what the national anthem means?

Never realized the anthem was open to interpretation. Must be something new