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OT: Standing for the National Anthem
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nixluva
Posts: 54707
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9/16/2017  5:21 PM
arkrud wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
arkrud wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:We have all grown up in the US on white controlled narrative. But we are in the information age today. We celebrated Columbus day in the past. Yet after the pubic has gotten access to his personal journal. He has proven to not be worthy of being celebrated.

We also sit here and talk about disrespecting veterans due to the flag.
Yet the nation struggles to provide veterans with
-Affordable health insurance
-Medical care assesibility
-Affordable housing/homeless veterans
-Mental health care
-Faster Disability process

So is it the veterans that people are looking to honor? Or white controlled narrative?

The moral values of 21 century apply to Columbus the same way they apply to spiders from Mars.
And so issues with treatment of veterans has nothing to do with the flag and anthem.
Both are symbols of the country we all leave in.
Disrespecting them we simply disrespect ourselves.
This is no white narrative or black narrative - it is American narrative.
This symbols created to bring people together regardless of their differences and using then to pull people apart is counterproductive.

Columbus was still celebrated due to lack of awareness which was the point.
Public made it about veterans when he clearly didn't have issues with veterans. To use as a cover to not address the real issues.
America has been run and controlled by whites since its creation.
If its an American narrative then ALL American history should be told accurately.
I disagree that it has been counter productive.

Issues that Kap has kneeled for have been on going issues for centuries. Lack of justice and lack of accountability. The lack of justice and lack of accountability has lead to the kneeling of the flag which is supposed to represent these things. Cause and effect.

A cop unjustly murdering an American and getting acquitted on all charges is disrespecting the flag and what it stands for.

America was build by whites, run, and controlled by whites since its creation.
Then it became a country of all races, nations, genders, and religions.
This process is still in progress and cannot be stopped.
It is not easy and will not be easy moving forward.
If somebody has no courage to participate - the world is big and have countries build, run, and controlled by Africans, Asians, Russians, Muslims.
Everyone can find something they like if they do not like it here.


This country was NEVER a White Country. The establishment of Colonies, States and then the United States of America has always been multi-racial and the Physical building of the Country was most certainly not done by White people alone. I don't know when you think this country actually started but Africans have been here for a long time and of course Native Americans have been here for thousands of years.

Tue, 1606-01-03
*On this date in 1606, the first recorded birth of a child of African decent in the continental United States occurred. This was is in the Cathedral Parish Archives in St. Augustine, Florida, thirteen years before enslaved Africans were first brought to the English colony at Jamestown in 1619.

William Tucker, the first Black child born (recorded) in the American colonies, was baptized on January 3, 1624, in Jamestown, Virginia. Two of the first Africans to be brought to North America in 1619 were simply called Anthony and Isabella they were married and in 1624 gave birth to the first Black child born in English America naming him William Tucker in honor of a Virginia Planter.

http://www.aaregistry.org/historic_events/view/first-black-birth-recorded-america

My ancestors slaved away and are buried in this ground long before most of the European Immigrants that came later arrived here. I was able to trace my Father's line all the way back to 1758 tho I will likely never know who they were or if others in my family were here even before that. My people were here BEFORE the American Revolution and fought in most of the wars. I have relatives that fought in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam and Afghanistan. This is as much our country as any White person living today. So why should we be treated like 2nd class or worse?

AUTOADVERT
NardDogNation
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9/16/2017  5:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/17/2017  2:01 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Uptown wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:The first question one may ask when disregarding the 'theme" of standing is "what have I personally done for my country". What did this country afford my family and I? Have I ever served the countries military? Have I put myself in harms way to protect others freedoms? Have I talked to members of the military who have done more than I and asked them what do they feel about the "National anthem". Do they feel it would be disrespectful to them if someone chose not to stand for it. The National Anthem is not a self-serving platform--go look at the origins of OUR military. Feel free to ask REAL servicemen how they feel about the SIMPLE appreciation and then come back here. It's really easy to disrespect the people who keep the nation safe everyday and who have for 250 years. Its not a platform for protest--its a pledge of respect. How does disrespecting hundreds of millions of servicemen create any good? I'm going to be selfish and use this platform of respect for people who have done nothing but safeguarded my well being?

Dude, you are clueless!!!! Are you reading the responses in this thread! The protest has nothing to do with the military! But since you are so gung-ho about your national anthem, do you care about the actual author of the national anthem? Do you care that the original national anthem had the following verse:

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The national anthem that you speak of talks about killing slaves....In this day and age, why do we still sing this song?!


Yes, and I object to calling only people who serve in the military "servicemen." If you are a doctor, a teacher, a sanitation worker, or just a kind person, you are serving the country.

Exactly! Especially teachers who are routinely scrutinized and poorly compensated despite being so crucial to furthering a strong and healthy democracy.

My brother teaches math and makes over 80 k a year with complete summers off ana a full workload of 190 days. How does that compare with people who don't even make 1/4 of that and put their lives on the line. Admirable vocation-- absolutely-- does it compare to servicemen-- you have to be kidding.

If you want to sit during the National Anthem-- go ahead but believe me 80-90% of the people will think you are disrespectful to our nation. You would not be here without the military -- you would not have exsisted


If anyone thinks any type of platform will be hear while disrespecting those you are trying to communicate with-- what kind of common sense does that make?

People like me were "here" while suffering the indignities of slavery, while only being recognized as having three-fifths of personhood (with none of its autonomy),right into being a second class citizen with a military. Can't be much worse without one.

That aside, most of my teachers seemed to have a second job/hustle (e.g. bartending and tutoring) to make ends meet so I doubt your brother is representative of the average public school teacher experience. But everything I've heard related to their compensation falls in line with the perception that they are not adequately compensated.

dacash
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9/16/2017  7:08 PM
lol wow ok this is going into another no one understand anyone eles point if view everyone is racist and America would be better off if none of you were there.
newyorknewyork
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9/16/2017  7:55 PM
arkrud wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
arkrud wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:We have all grown up in the US on white controlled narrative. But we are in the information age today. We celebrated Columbus day in the past. Yet after the pubic has gotten access to his personal journal. He has proven to not be worthy of being celebrated.

We also sit here and talk about disrespecting veterans due to the flag.
Yet the nation struggles to provide veterans with
-Affordable health insurance
-Medical care assesibility
-Affordable housing/homeless veterans
-Mental health care
-Faster Disability process

So is it the veterans that people are looking to honor? Or white controlled narrative?

The moral values of 21 century apply to Columbus the same way they apply to spiders from Mars.
And so issues with treatment of veterans has nothing to do with the flag and anthem.
Both are symbols of the country we all leave in.
Disrespecting them we simply disrespect ourselves.
This is no white narrative or black narrative - it is American narrative.
This symbols created to bring people together regardless of their differences and using then to pull people apart is counterproductive.

Columbus was still celebrated due to lack of awareness which was the point.
Public made it about veterans when he clearly didn't have issues with veterans. To use as a cover to not address the real issues.
America has been run and controlled by whites since its creation.
If its an American narrative then ALL American history should be told accurately.
I disagree that it has been counter productive.

Issues that Kap has kneeled for have been on going issues for centuries. Lack of justice and lack of accountability. The lack of justice and lack of accountability has lead to the kneeling of the flag which is supposed to represent these things. Cause and effect.

A cop unjustly murdering an American and getting acquitted on all charges is disrespecting the flag and what it stands for.

America was build by whites, run, and controlled by whites since its creation.
Then it became a country of all races, nations, genders, and religions.
This process is still in progress and cannot be stopped.
It is not easy and will not be easy moving forward.
If somebody has no courage to participate - the world is big and have countries build, run, and controlled by Africans, Asians, Russians, Muslims.
Everyone can find something they like if they do not like it here.

We are getting a little off track and I think are arguing 2 different things. But to touch on some of what you are saying. Its slowly turning toward becoming a nation of all races, nations, genders, and religions. The 115th Congress just reached 19% minority. And had a 34% jump in new members being minorities.

That still leaves 80% of Congress white and that is the improvement throughout history. So regardless all issues throughout history have come down to white law and policies makers signing off and making the judgment calls.

The history and information that we learned growing up in our schools have been due to majority white decision makers deciding what was relevant, who to celebrate and who not to. Same within Hollywood.

The major news outlets film companies growing up were owned and run by majority white males. The narrative of what topics were important to touch on. How to present/feed the news to the public has throughout American history been controlled by white males.

I don't say these things to condemn white people. This has just been the reality throughout American history. And its why understanding has been hard to come by, why racism, prejudice, bigotry are still hot topics in 2017. I mean we shouldn't have had to wait until 2017 until it became public knowledge of African American women's impact within the the space program among tons of other things. Imagine the impact on race relations and inspiration if made public as it was happening during the 60s or even 70s. That was just a small tidbit I wanted to add.

Your last sentence is silly talk. Asking America to hold itself to the standards which people like you claim it to be at is as American as apple pie. Want all the credit for the positive and none of the responsibility for the negative.

Paris907
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9/16/2017  8:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/17/2017  5:34 AM
We've all seen Black and white pictures in the 50s and 60s of men wearing Jacket, hat and tie to the ball park. Those years were 10 -20 years from world war 2 and no one thought of not respecting the flag. Today, Berkeley has to warn their fragile students of the dangers of listening to a conservative speaker Ben Shapiro. I wasn't born in the country and was naturalized in 1960. It's a privilege to live here and the very least I can do not having served is to offer my utmost respect for those who have fought to preserve and defend this great country.
arkrud
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9/16/2017  8:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/16/2017  8:35 PM
nixluva wrote:
arkrud wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
arkrud wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:We have all grown up in the US on white controlled narrative. But we are in the information age today. We celebrated Columbus day in the past. Yet after the pubic has gotten access to his personal journal. He has proven to not be worthy of being celebrated.

We also sit here and talk about disrespecting veterans due to the flag.
Yet the nation struggles to provide veterans with
-Affordable health insurance
-Medical care assesibility
-Affordable housing/homeless veterans
-Mental health care
-Faster Disability process

So is it the veterans that people are looking to honor? Or white controlled narrative?

The moral values of 21 century apply to Columbus the same way they apply to spiders from Mars.
And so issues with treatment of veterans has nothing to do with the flag and anthem.
Both are symbols of the country we all leave in.
Disrespecting them we simply disrespect ourselves.
This is no white narrative or black narrative - it is American narrative.
This symbols created to bring people together regardless of their differences and using then to pull people apart is counterproductive.

Columbus was still celebrated due to lack of awareness which was the point.
Public made it about veterans when he clearly didn't have issues with veterans. To use as a cover to not address the real issues.
America has been run and controlled by whites since its creation.
If its an American narrative then ALL American history should be told accurately.
I disagree that it has been counter productive.

Issues that Kap has kneeled for have been on going issues for centuries. Lack of justice and lack of accountability. The lack of justice and lack of accountability has lead to the kneeling of the flag which is supposed to represent these things. Cause and effect.

A cop unjustly murdering an American and getting acquitted on all charges is disrespecting the flag and what it stands for.

America was build by whites, run, and controlled by whites since its creation.
Then it became a country of all races, nations, genders, and religions.
This process is still in progress and cannot be stopped.
It is not easy and will not be easy moving forward.
If somebody has no courage to participate - the world is big and have countries build, run, and controlled by Africans, Asians, Russians, Muslims.
Everyone can find something they like if they do not like it here.


This country was NEVER a White Country. The establishment of Colonies, States and then the United States of America has always been multi-racial and the Physical building of the Country was most certainly not done by White people alone. I don't know when you think this country actually started but Africans have been here for a long time and of course Native Americans have been here for thousands of years.

Tue, 1606-01-03
*On this date in 1606, the first recorded birth of a child of African decent in the continental United States occurred. This was is in the Cathedral Parish Archives in St. Augustine, Florida, thirteen years before enslaved Africans were first brought to the English colony at Jamestown in 1619.

William Tucker, the first Black child born (recorded) in the American colonies, was baptized on January 3, 1624, in Jamestown, Virginia. Two of the first Africans to be brought to North America in 1619 were simply called Anthony and Isabella they were married and in 1624 gave birth to the first Black child born in English America naming him William Tucker in honor of a Virginia Planter.

http://www.aaregistry.org/historic_events/view/first-black-birth-recorded-america

My ancestors slaved away and are buried in this ground long before most of the European Immigrants that came later arrived here. I was able to trace my Father's line all the way back to 1758 tho I will likely never know who they were or if others in my family were here even before that. My people were here BEFORE the American Revolution and fought in most of the wars. I have relatives that fought in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam and Afghanistan. This is as much our country as any White person living today. So why should we be treated like 2nd class or worse?

Who said that anyone should be treated as 2nd class or worse?
But making this happened is a process not the act of God or declaration of man.
Freedom cannot be handed to anyone. It must be taken by those who carve for it.
There is no other way.
The country is not peaces of land or bunch of inhabitants.
The country is a personification of dominant culture which when established suppress and eventually consumes all others.
This is not good or bad - this is reality.
United States is a country of conquerors and emigrants.
It is just started to shape its cultural identity which is a mix or many cultures melted together in what the America of today is.
For better or for worth we are here together and who will not learn to leave together will vanish together with the culture he/she represents.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
nixluva
Posts: 54707
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9/16/2017  9:19 PM
arkrud wrote:
nixluva wrote:
arkrud wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
arkrud wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:We have all grown up in the US on white controlled narrative. But we are in the information age today. We celebrated Columbus day in the past. Yet after the pubic has gotten access to his personal journal. He has proven to not be worthy of being celebrated.

We also sit here and talk about disrespecting veterans due to the flag.
Yet the nation struggles to provide veterans with
-Affordable health insurance
-Medical care assesibility
-Affordable housing/homeless veterans
-Mental health care
-Faster Disability process

So is it the veterans that people are looking to honor? Or white controlled narrative?

The moral values of 21 century apply to Columbus the same way they apply to spiders from Mars.
And so issues with treatment of veterans has nothing to do with the flag and anthem.
Both are symbols of the country we all leave in.
Disrespecting them we simply disrespect ourselves.
This is no white narrative or black narrative - it is American narrative.
This symbols created to bring people together regardless of their differences and using then to pull people apart is counterproductive.

Columbus was still celebrated due to lack of awareness which was the point.
Public made it about veterans when he clearly didn't have issues with veterans. To use as a cover to not address the real issues.
America has been run and controlled by whites since its creation.
If its an American narrative then ALL American history should be told accurately.
I disagree that it has been counter productive.

Issues that Kap has kneeled for have been on going issues for centuries. Lack of justice and lack of accountability. The lack of justice and lack of accountability has lead to the kneeling of the flag which is supposed to represent these things. Cause and effect.

A cop unjustly murdering an American and getting acquitted on all charges is disrespecting the flag and what it stands for.

America was build by whites, run, and controlled by whites since its creation.
Then it became a country of all races, nations, genders, and religions.
This process is still in progress and cannot be stopped.
It is not easy and will not be easy moving forward.
If somebody has no courage to participate - the world is big and have countries build, run, and controlled by Africans, Asians, Russians, Muslims.
Everyone can find something they like if they do not like it here.


This country was NEVER a White Country. The establishment of Colonies, States and then the United States of America has always been multi-racial and the Physical building of the Country was most certainly not done by White people alone. I don't know when you think this country actually started but Africans have been here for a long time and of course Native Americans have been here for thousands of years.

Tue, 1606-01-03
*On this date in 1606, the first recorded birth of a child of African decent in the continental United States occurred. This was is in the Cathedral Parish Archives in St. Augustine, Florida, thirteen years before enslaved Africans were first brought to the English colony at Jamestown in 1619.

William Tucker, the first Black child born (recorded) in the American colonies, was baptized on January 3, 1624, in Jamestown, Virginia. Two of the first Africans to be brought to North America in 1619 were simply called Anthony and Isabella they were married and in 1624 gave birth to the first Black child born in English America naming him William Tucker in honor of a Virginia Planter.

http://www.aaregistry.org/historic_events/view/first-black-birth-recorded-america

My ancestors slaved away and are buried in this ground long before most of the European Immigrants that came later arrived here. I was able to trace my Father's line all the way back to 1758 tho I will likely never know who they were or if others in my family were here even before that. My people were here BEFORE the American Revolution and fought in most of the wars. I have relatives that fought in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam and Afghanistan. This is as much our country as any White person living today. So why should we be treated like 2nd class or worse?

Who said that anyone should be treated as 2nd class or worse?
But making this happened is a process not the act of God or declaration of man.
Freedom cannot be handed to anyone. It must be taken by those who carve for it.
There is no other way.
The country is not peaces of land or bunch of inhabitants.
The country is a personification of dominant culture which when established suppress and eventually consumes all others.
This is not good or bad - this is reality.
United States is a country of conquerors and emigrants.
It is just started to shape its cultural identity which is a mix or many cultures melted together in what the America of today is.
For better or for worth we are here together and who will not learn to leave together will vanish together with the culture he/she represents.


You misunderstand. I'm not saying YOU are calling for Classes based on race in this society. I'm stating a FACT. And also this was in FACT a Declaration of Man. Freedom was TAKEN away and inequality was enshrined in LAW. This country was built on White Supremacy. The day that they established a Law that AA's would be slaves that course was set. I'm going to keep trying to educate you about things you don't seem to know or understand in the hopes that one day it will break through:

Virginia Slave Codes of 1705

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Virginia Slave Codes of 1705 were a series of laws enacted by the Colony of Virginia's House of Burgesses regulating activities related to interactions between slaves and citizens of the crown colony of Virginia. The enactment of the Slave Codes is considered to be the consolidation of slavery in Virginia, and served as the foundation of Virginia's slave legislation.[1]

These codes effectively embedded the idea of white supremacy into law by the following racist devices:[2]

Established new property rights for slave owners

Allowed for the legal, free trade of slaves with protections granted by the courts

Established separate courts of trial

Prohibited blacks, regardless of free status, from owning arms [weapons]

Whites could not be employed by blacks

Allowed for the apprehension of suspected runaways

These new laws exhibited a grand departure from business as it once was, stripping from blacks many previously held rights.[citation needed] Before this, indentured servants, while they served their term, and slaves were almost equals in their plight. Now, a racial divide was a legal mandate.[citation needed]

Historians generally agree that this law was devised to establish a greater level of control over the surging African slave population of Virginia.[citation needed] It also served to socially segregate white colonists from black slaves making them disparate groups hindering their ability to unite.[citation needed] A unity of the commoners was a perceived fear of the Virginia aristocracy which had to be addressed, and who wished to prevent a repeat of events such as Bacon's Rebellion, occurring 29 years prior.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Slave_Codes_of_1705

Bruh, Minorities haven't been the stumbling block to living together in peace and harmony!!! The dominant White Society created the separation and classes in this country. The system that has oppressed certain races was established by the White Society and whenever minorities step up and demand Freedom or Equality the only thing standing in the way of that is the Majority White Society.

It did not have to be that way! That was a conscious choice and that separation was perpetuated over the years until this very day. Do you realize how destructive it would've been had African Americans decided to become violent in order to strike back at their oppressors? It would've ruined the country. Instead all these hundreds of years all AA's and other minorities have wanted was to be treated fairly. THAT'S ALL. This isn't an AA problem because we didn't create this system of inequality.

Zebo13
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9/16/2017  10:34 PM
Nalod wrote:Imagine being a veteran of war, see action, then you came home and was treated as a second or third class human denied rights as other simply because your black?
Maybe not a veteran, maybe you just understand that young men and women have fought for this "freedom, died for this "Freedom" and you dont feel equal? Maybe you want to scream at the injustice and hypocrisy of it and to the core sick of it you need a voice. Maybe your standing and celebrated by 80,000 fans but yet feel a rage.
Briggs, no you can't.
Why need we do this patriotic display before every game anyway? The armed forces agencies pay the NFL for the big flag and all kinds of war propaganda and we eat this up?

NOt everyone is equal and yet we are asked to stand in unity.

Of cours Nalod crushes it and Briggs is as clueless as ever. You can tell a lot about somebody whilst lurking on a sports forum.

djsunyc
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9/16/2017  10:36 PM
Zebo13 wrote:
Nalod wrote:Imagine being a veteran of war, see action, then you came home and was treated as a second or third class human denied rights as other simply because your black?
Maybe not a veteran, maybe you just understand that young men and women have fought for this "freedom, died for this "Freedom" and you dont feel equal? Maybe you want to scream at the injustice and hypocrisy of it and to the core sick of it you need a voice. Maybe your standing and celebrated by 80,000 fans but yet feel a rage.
Briggs, no you can't.
Why need we do this patriotic display before every game anyway? The armed forces agencies pay the NFL for the big flag and all kinds of war propaganda and we eat this up?

NOt everyone is equal and yet we are asked to stand in unity.

Of cours Nalod crushes it and Briggs is as clueless as ever. You can tell a lot about somebody whilst lurking on a sports forum.

word!!!

gunsnewing
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9/16/2017  10:55 PM
smackeddog wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:To me the NAtional Anthem is a simple respect of all current and former service members of the military. Those people have tremendous courage and have given millions of lives over 250 years to keep the country safe from foreign opponents. Without them no one here would have a job or safety of a home. It is not a platform to promote an agenda-- there are many other platforms for that. If you don't stand to give a simple thanks for those who have given their lives to provide a better one for you-- it's sad and wrong

Why do you get to decide for every body what the national anthem means?

Never realized the anthem was open to interpretation. Must be something new

gunsnewing
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9/16/2017  11:06 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Uptown wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:The first question one may ask when disregarding the 'theme" of standing is "what have I personally done for my country". What did this country afford my family and I? Have I ever served the countries military? Have I put myself in harms way to protect others freedoms? Have I talked to members of the military who have done more than I and asked them what do they feel about the "National anthem". Do they feel it would be disrespectful to them if someone chose not to stand for it. The National Anthem is not a self-serving platform--go look at the origins of OUR military. Feel free to ask REAL servicemen how they feel about the SIMPLE appreciation and then come back here. It's really easy to disrespect the people who keep the nation safe everyday and who have for 250 years. Its not a platform for protest--its a pledge of respect. How does disrespecting hundreds of millions of servicemen create any good? I'm going to be selfish and use this platform of respect for people who have done nothing but safeguarded my well being?

Dude, you are clueless!!!! Are you reading the responses in this thread! The protest has nothing to do with the military! But since you are so gung-ho about your national anthem, do you care about the actual author of the national anthem? Do you care that the original national anthem had the following verse:

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The national anthem that you speak of talks about killing slaves....In this day and age, why do we still sing this song?!


Yes, and I object to calling only people who serve in the military "servicemen." If you are a doctor, a teacher, a sanitation worker, or just a kind person, you are serving the country.

Exactly! Especially teachers who are routinely scrutinized and poorly compensated despite being so crucial to furthering a strong and healthy democracy.

My brother teaches math and makes over 80 k a year with complete summers off ana a full workload of 190 days. How does that compare with people who don't even make 1/4 of that and put their lives on the line. Admirable vocation-- absolutely-- does it compare to servicemen-- you have to be kidding.

If you want to sit during the National Anthem-- go ahead but believe me 80-90% of the people will think you are disrespectful to our nation. You would not be here without the military -- you would not have exsisted


If anyone thinks any type of platform will be hear while disrespecting those you are trying to communicate with-- what kind of common sense does that make?

People like me were "here" while suffering the indignities of slavery, while only being recognized as having three-fifths of personhood (with none of its autonomy),right into being a second class citizen with a military. Can't be much worse without one.

That aside, most of my teachers seemed to have a second job/hustle (e.g. bartending and tutoring) to make ends meet so I doubt your brother is representative of the average public high school teacher experience. But everything I've heard related to their compensation falls in line with the perception that they are not adequately compensated.

Did you ever find the post where I called for wiping out an entire race of people or whatever it was?

arkrud
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9/16/2017  11:55 PM
nixluva wrote:
arkrud wrote:
nixluva wrote:
arkrud wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
arkrud wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:We have all grown up in the US on white controlled narrative. But we are in the information age today. We celebrated Columbus day in the past. Yet after the pubic has gotten access to his personal journal. He has proven to not be worthy of being celebrated.

We also sit here and talk about disrespecting veterans due to the flag.
Yet the nation struggles to provide veterans with
-Affordable health insurance
-Medical care assesibility
-Affordable housing/homeless veterans
-Mental health care
-Faster Disability process

So is it the veterans that people are looking to honor? Or white controlled narrative?

The moral values of 21 century apply to Columbus the same way they apply to spiders from Mars.
And so issues with treatment of veterans has nothing to do with the flag and anthem.
Both are symbols of the country we all leave in.
Disrespecting them we simply disrespect ourselves.
This is no white narrative or black narrative - it is American narrative.
This symbols created to bring people together regardless of their differences and using then to pull people apart is counterproductive.

Columbus was still celebrated due to lack of awareness which was the point.
Public made it about veterans when he clearly didn't have issues with veterans. To use as a cover to not address the real issues.
America has been run and controlled by whites since its creation.
If its an American narrative then ALL American history should be told accurately.
I disagree that it has been counter productive.

Issues that Kap has kneeled for have been on going issues for centuries. Lack of justice and lack of accountability. The lack of justice and lack of accountability has lead to the kneeling of the flag which is supposed to represent these things. Cause and effect.

A cop unjustly murdering an American and getting acquitted on all charges is disrespecting the flag and what it stands for.

America was build by whites, run, and controlled by whites since its creation.
Then it became a country of all races, nations, genders, and religions.
This process is still in progress and cannot be stopped.
It is not easy and will not be easy moving forward.
If somebody has no courage to participate - the world is big and have countries build, run, and controlled by Africans, Asians, Russians, Muslims.
Everyone can find something they like if they do not like it here.


This country was NEVER a White Country. The establishment of Colonies, States and then the United States of America has always been multi-racial and the Physical building of the Country was most certainly not done by White people alone. I don't know when you think this country actually started but Africans have been here for a long time and of course Native Americans have been here for thousands of years.

Tue, 1606-01-03
*On this date in 1606, the first recorded birth of a child of African decent in the continental United States occurred. This was is in the Cathedral Parish Archives in St. Augustine, Florida, thirteen years before enslaved Africans were first brought to the English colony at Jamestown in 1619.

William Tucker, the first Black child born (recorded) in the American colonies, was baptized on January 3, 1624, in Jamestown, Virginia. Two of the first Africans to be brought to North America in 1619 were simply called Anthony and Isabella they were married and in 1624 gave birth to the first Black child born in English America naming him William Tucker in honor of a Virginia Planter.

http://www.aaregistry.org/historic_events/view/first-black-birth-recorded-america

My ancestors slaved away and are buried in this ground long before most of the European Immigrants that came later arrived here. I was able to trace my Father's line all the way back to 1758 tho I will likely never know who they were or if others in my family were here even before that. My people were here BEFORE the American Revolution and fought in most of the wars. I have relatives that fought in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Vietnam and Afghanistan. This is as much our country as any White person living today. So why should we be treated like 2nd class or worse?

Who said that anyone should be treated as 2nd class or worse?
But making this happened is a process not the act of God or declaration of man.
Freedom cannot be handed to anyone. It must be taken by those who carve for it.
There is no other way.
The country is not peaces of land or bunch of inhabitants.
The country is a personification of dominant culture which when established suppress and eventually consumes all others.
This is not good or bad - this is reality.
United States is a country of conquerors and emigrants.
It is just started to shape its cultural identity which is a mix or many cultures melted together in what the America of today is.
For better or for worth we are here together and who will not learn to leave together will vanish together with the culture he/she represents.


You misunderstand. I'm not saying YOU are calling for Classes based on race in this society. I'm stating a FACT. And also this was in FACT a Declaration of Man. Freedom was TAKEN away and inequality was enshrined in LAW. This country was built on White Supremacy. The day that they established a Law that AA's would be slaves that course was set. I'm going to keep trying to educate you about things you don't seem to know or understand in the hopes that one day it will break through:

Virginia Slave Codes of 1705

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Virginia Slave Codes of 1705 were a series of laws enacted by the Colony of Virginia's House of Burgesses regulating activities related to interactions between slaves and citizens of the crown colony of Virginia. The enactment of the Slave Codes is considered to be the consolidation of slavery in Virginia, and served as the foundation of Virginia's slave legislation.[1]

These codes effectively embedded the idea of white supremacy into law by the following racist devices:[2]

Established new property rights for slave owners

Allowed for the legal, free trade of slaves with protections granted by the courts

Established separate courts of trial

Prohibited blacks, regardless of free status, from owning arms [weapons]

Whites could not be employed by blacks

Allowed for the apprehension of suspected runaways

These new laws exhibited a grand departure from business as it once was, stripping from blacks many previously held rights.[citation needed] Before this, indentured servants, while they served their term, and slaves were almost equals in their plight. Now, a racial divide was a legal mandate.[citation needed]

Historians generally agree that this law was devised to establish a greater level of control over the surging African slave population of Virginia.[citation needed] It also served to socially segregate white colonists from black slaves making them disparate groups hindering their ability to unite.[citation needed] A unity of the commoners was a perceived fear of the Virginia aristocracy which had to be addressed, and who wished to prevent a repeat of events such as Bacon's Rebellion, occurring 29 years prior.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Slave_Codes_of_1705

Bruh, Minorities haven't been the stumbling block to living together in peace and harmony!!! The dominant White Society created the separation and classes in this country. The system that has oppressed certain races was established by the White Society and whenever minorities step up and demand Freedom or Equality the only thing standing in the way of that is the Majority White Society.

It did not have to be that way! That was a conscious choice and that separation was perpetuated over the years until this very day. Do you realize how destructive it would've been had African Americans decided to become violent in order to strike back at their oppressors? It would've ruined the country. Instead all these hundreds of years all AA's and other minorities have wanted was to be treated fairly. THAT'S ALL. This isn't an AA problem because we didn't create this system of inequality.

Many thing should not be the way they are but they still are what they are.
Supremacy comes from power, and power is taken by those who had the will to take it.
Anyone who takes responsibility for this country taking power in his hands.
More responsibility - more power.
And power does not mean terror or hate - power means love and compassion.
Blaming the ghosts and symbols of the past never helped.
Complacency and excuses make people weak.
Stepping forward and taking responsibility for your own life, for life of your family, your community, you country makes you strong.
Isn't it what the best and major part of AA community did and isn't it why this community still exist and claiming the wall of equality?
Would it took the violent path it would be long gone.
People who started as freed slaves have much harder and slower way that those who were lucky to come here by their own will.
But if they rich the same level of human spirit so the bigger honor they have.
Many are still roaming the desert squeezing the last drop of slavery from their blood.
Its just a matter of time.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
smackeddog
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9/17/2017  1:38 AM
djsunyc wrote:why does the anthem have to be correlated to armed services?

Because BRIGGS says so, presumably so he can launch another attack on black people

smackeddog
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9/17/2017  1:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/17/2017  2:54 AM
gunsnewing wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:To me the NAtional Anthem is a simple respect of all current and former service members of the military. Those people have tremendous courage and have given millions of lives over 250 years to keep the country safe from foreign opponents. Without them no one here would have a job or safety of a home. It is not a platform to promote an agenda-- there are many other platforms for that. If you don't stand to give a simple thanks for those who have given their lives to provide a better one for you-- it's sad and wrong

Why do you get to decide for every body what the national anthem means?

Never realized the anthem was open to interpretation. Must be something new

It's an artificial construct- it's very existence is an interpretation. If you stood for the national anthem during segregation and stand for it after segregation has been (legally) abolished then what exactly were it's values that remained consistent? Do you think black people should have stood for the national anthem during segregation? Should gay people when gay sex was a crime? Can you and BRIGGS honestly not see any of this? Why should people not protest when they are confronted with injustice? How is pretending all is well a great thing? Yours and BRIGGS use of the national anthem is essentially a means of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "LALALLALALAL"

NardDogNation
Posts: 26400
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9/17/2017  1:54 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/17/2017  2:12 AM
gunsnewing wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Uptown wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:The first question one may ask when disregarding the 'theme" of standing is "what have I personally done for my country". What did this country afford my family and I? Have I ever served the countries military? Have I put myself in harms way to protect others freedoms? Have I talked to members of the military who have done more than I and asked them what do they feel about the "National anthem". Do they feel it would be disrespectful to them if someone chose not to stand for it. The National Anthem is not a self-serving platform--go look at the origins of OUR military. Feel free to ask REAL servicemen how they feel about the SIMPLE appreciation and then come back here. It's really easy to disrespect the people who keep the nation safe everyday and who have for 250 years. Its not a platform for protest--its a pledge of respect. How does disrespecting hundreds of millions of servicemen create any good? I'm going to be selfish and use this platform of respect for people who have done nothing but safeguarded my well being?

Dude, you are clueless!!!! Are you reading the responses in this thread! The protest has nothing to do with the military! But since you are so gung-ho about your national anthem, do you care about the actual author of the national anthem? Do you care that the original national anthem had the following verse:

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The national anthem that you speak of talks about killing slaves....In this day and age, why do we still sing this song?!


Yes, and I object to calling only people who serve in the military "servicemen." If you are a doctor, a teacher, a sanitation worker, or just a kind person, you are serving the country.

Exactly! Especially teachers who are routinely scrutinized and poorly compensated despite being so crucial to furthering a strong and healthy democracy.

My brother teaches math and makes over 80 k a year with complete summers off ana a full workload of 190 days. How does that compare with people who don't even make 1/4 of that and put their lives on the line. Admirable vocation-- absolutely-- does it compare to servicemen-- you have to be kidding.

If you want to sit during the National Anthem-- go ahead but believe me 80-90% of the people will think you are disrespectful to our nation. You would not be here without the military -- you would not have exsisted


If anyone thinks any type of platform will be hear while disrespecting those you are trying to communicate with-- what kind of common sense does that make?

People like me were "here" while suffering the indignities of slavery, while only being recognized as having three-fifths of personhood (with none of its autonomy),right into being a second class citizen with a military. Can't be much worse without one.

That aside, most of my teachers seemed to have a second job/hustle (e.g. bartending and tutoring) to make ends meet so I doubt your brother is representative of the average public high school teacher experience. But everything I've heard related to their compensation falls in line with the perception that they are not adequately compensated.

Did you ever find the post where I called for wiping out an entire race of people or whatever it was?

I didn't, nor will I bother to delve through months of posts to prove something another poster (I believe smackeddog) corroborated you said. Do you deny making the comment though?

smackeddog
Posts: 32439
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9/17/2017  2:56 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Uptown wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:The first question one may ask when disregarding the 'theme" of standing is "what have I personally done for my country". What did this country afford my family and I? Have I ever served the countries military? Have I put myself in harms way to protect others freedoms? Have I talked to members of the military who have done more than I and asked them what do they feel about the "National anthem". Do they feel it would be disrespectful to them if someone chose not to stand for it. The National Anthem is not a self-serving platform--go look at the origins of OUR military. Feel free to ask REAL servicemen how they feel about the SIMPLE appreciation and then come back here. It's really easy to disrespect the people who keep the nation safe everyday and who have for 250 years. Its not a platform for protest--its a pledge of respect. How does disrespecting hundreds of millions of servicemen create any good? I'm going to be selfish and use this platform of respect for people who have done nothing but safeguarded my well being?

Dude, you are clueless!!!! Are you reading the responses in this thread! The protest has nothing to do with the military! But since you are so gung-ho about your national anthem, do you care about the actual author of the national anthem? Do you care that the original national anthem had the following verse:

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The national anthem that you speak of talks about killing slaves....In this day and age, why do we still sing this song?!


Yes, and I object to calling only people who serve in the military "servicemen." If you are a doctor, a teacher, a sanitation worker, or just a kind person, you are serving the country.

Exactly! Especially teachers who are routinely scrutinized and poorly compensated despite being so crucial to furthering a strong and healthy democracy.

My brother teaches math and makes over 80 k a year with complete summers off ana a full workload of 190 days. How does that compare with people who don't even make 1/4 of that and put their lives on the line. Admirable vocation-- absolutely-- does it compare to servicemen-- you have to be kidding.

If you want to sit during the National Anthem-- go ahead but believe me 80-90% of the people will think you are disrespectful to our nation. You would not be here without the military -- you would not have exsisted


If anyone thinks any type of platform will be hear while disrespecting those you are trying to communicate with-- what kind of common sense does that make?

People like me were "here" while suffering the indignities of slavery, while only being recognized as having three-fifths of personhood (with none of its autonomy),right into being a second class citizen with a military. Can't be much worse without one.

That aside, most of my teachers seemed to have a second job/hustle (e.g. bartending and tutoring) to make ends meet so I doubt your brother is representative of the average public high school teacher experience. But everything I've heard related to their compensation falls in line with the perception that they are not adequately compensated.

Did you ever find the post where I called for wiping out an entire race of people or whatever it was?

I didn't, nor will I bother to delve through months of posts to prove something another poster (I believe smackeddog) corroborated you said. Do you deny making the comment though?

Yup, it was a bitter post where he said something about there being too many sorry people or something, that needed to be wiped out- at least that was the sentiment

HofstraBBall
Posts: 22201
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9/17/2017  10:04 AM
BRIGGS wrote:To me the NAtional Anthem is a simple respect of all current and former service members of the military. Those people have tremendous courage and have given millions of lives over 250 years to keep the country safe from foreign opponents. Without them no one here would have a job or safety of a home. It is not a platform to promote an agenda-- there are many other platforms for that. If you don't stand to give a simple thanks for those who have given their lives to provide a better one for you-- it's sad and wrong

Dont like to respond to any of these political threads as this is about sports and is best to keep the forum for that reason. BUT..... I think its strange that there are so many that judge other peoples actions and freedoms to act in a certain way. Your saying that this is offensive to veterans (Although the ones kneeling have said several times that its not meant to disrespect their service) but you fail to comprehend that this is what they fought for. I dont think I would protest in this manner but judging people for deciding to do so is like judging people for not being Christians, going to church, or dressing like you do. I dont think there should be one veteran that is offended by this. If so, then they do not really understand what they were fighting for. Because it sure was not for getting acknowledged at a sporting event.

Keep in mind, their are many that are racists, thiefs, immoral that stand and honor the flag at these events that hide behind the curtain of normal behavior. Fact is, we are not good people for following everything that is standard practice or broadly accepted by the masses. We are good people by the way we truly conduct our lives and our care for ALL human beings. To judge someones character based on how he thinks he should protest against what he thinks to be an immoral practice, is WRONG IMHO.

But how bout them Knicks??

Melo Haters = Lin lovers who are mad Houston paid so much for his 15 Minutes,
smackeddog
Posts: 32439
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Joined: 3/30/2005
Member: #883
9/17/2017  10:30 AM
Paris907 wrote:We've all seen Black and white pictures in the 50s and 60s of men wearing Jacket, hat and tie to the ball park. Those years were 10 -20 years from world war 2 and no one thought of not respecting the flag. Today, Berkeley has to warn their fragile students of the dangers of listening to a conservative speaker Ben Shapiro. I wasn't born in the country and was naturalized in 1960. It's a privilege to live here and the very least I can do not having served is to offer my utmost respect for those who have fought to preserve and defend this great country.

Not at all- you can do more. Since you're so grateful and their sacrifice so noble, you can donate all you're income to these brave soldiers and charities that support them. Oh but hollow gestures are free right! Let's pretend theyre more important than they are to deflect attention from actual actions!

NardDogNation
Posts: 26400
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Joined: 5/7/2013
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9/17/2017  11:17 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/17/2017  11:28 AM
smackeddog wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Uptown wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:The first question one may ask when disregarding the 'theme" of standing is "what have I personally done for my country". What did this country afford my family and I? Have I ever served the countries military? Have I put myself in harms way to protect others freedoms? Have I talked to members of the military who have done more than I and asked them what do they feel about the "National anthem". Do they feel it would be disrespectful to them if someone chose not to stand for it. The National Anthem is not a self-serving platform--go look at the origins of OUR military. Feel free to ask REAL servicemen how they feel about the SIMPLE appreciation and then come back here. It's really easy to disrespect the people who keep the nation safe everyday and who have for 250 years. Its not a platform for protest--its a pledge of respect. How does disrespecting hundreds of millions of servicemen create any good? I'm going to be selfish and use this platform of respect for people who have done nothing but safeguarded my well being?

Dude, you are clueless!!!! Are you reading the responses in this thread! The protest has nothing to do with the military! But since you are so gung-ho about your national anthem, do you care about the actual author of the national anthem? Do you care that the original national anthem had the following verse:

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The national anthem that you speak of talks about killing slaves....In this day and age, why do we still sing this song?!


Yes, and I object to calling only people who serve in the military "servicemen." If you are a doctor, a teacher, a sanitation worker, or just a kind person, you are serving the country.

Exactly! Especially teachers who are routinely scrutinized and poorly compensated despite being so crucial to furthering a strong and healthy democracy.

My brother teaches math and makes over 80 k a year with complete summers off ana a full workload of 190 days. How does that compare with people who don't even make 1/4 of that and put their lives on the line. Admirable vocation-- absolutely-- does it compare to servicemen-- you have to be kidding.

If you want to sit during the National Anthem-- go ahead but believe me 80-90% of the people will think you are disrespectful to our nation. You would not be here without the military -- you would not have exsisted


If anyone thinks any type of platform will be hear while disrespecting those you are trying to communicate with-- what kind of common sense does that make?

People like me were "here" while suffering the indignities of slavery, while only being recognized as having three-fifths of personhood (with none of its autonomy),right into being a second class citizen with a military. Can't be much worse without one.

That aside, most of my teachers seemed to have a second job/hustle (e.g. bartending and tutoring) to make ends meet so I doubt your brother is representative of the average public high school teacher experience. But everything I've heard related to their compensation falls in line with the perception that they are not adequately compensated.

Did you ever find the post where I called for wiping out an entire race of people or whatever it was?

I didn't, nor will I bother to delve through months of posts to prove something another poster (I believe smackeddog) corroborated you said. Do you deny making the comment though?

Yup, it was a bitter post where he said something about there being too many sorry people or something, that needed to be wiped out- at least that was the sentiment

"Scum" was the word he used. I distinctly remember that, which is what prompted me to respond venomously in return before deleting it. He very clearly was advocating for the use of WMDs, which are not precise and would indiscriminately kill thousands, if not millions in an urban setting. Not to be mean but he's never struck me as a bright guy and could very well not understand the gravity of his words. But he said, what he said and regularly makes groundless and awful comments so... par for the course.

NardDogNation
Posts: 26400
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2013
Member: #5555

9/17/2017  11:20 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:To me the NAtional Anthem is a simple respect of all current and former service members of the military. Those people have tremendous courage and have given millions of lives over 250 years to keep the country safe from foreign opponents. Without them no one here would have a job or safety of a home. It is not a platform to promote an agenda-- there are many other platforms for that. If you don't stand to give a simple thanks for those who have given their lives to provide a better one for you-- it's sad and wrong

Dont like to respond to any of these political threads as this is about sports and is best to keep the forum for that reason. BUT..... I think its strange that there are so many that judge other peoples actions and freedoms to act in a certain way. Your saying that this is offensive to veterans (Although the ones kneeling have said several times that its not meant to disrespect their service) but you fail to comprehend that this is what they fought for. I dont think I would protest in this manner but judging people for deciding to do so is like judging people for not being Christians, going to church, or dressing like you do. I dont think there should be one veteran that is offended by this. If so, then they do not really understand what they were fighting for. Because it sure was not for getting acknowledged at a sporting event.

Keep in mind, their are many that are racists, thiefs, immoral that stand and honor the flag at these events that hide behind the curtain of normal behavior. Fact is, we are not good people for following everything that is standard practice or broadly accepted by the masses. We are good people by the way we truly conduct our lives and our care for ALL human beings. To judge someones character based on how he thinks he should protest against what he thinks to be an immoral practice, is WRONG IMHO.

But how bout them Knicks??

Well said.

Topic LOCKED
OT: Standing for the National Anthem

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