TripleThreat wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Perfect guy for us right now if you ask me. Very talented, a lot of room for growth, still young.

He's just not very good, that being said, given the talent situation on the roster, why not sign him and see what happens.

He's a defensive liability. Which is gonna hurt him getting on the floor given he's not an elite three point shooter. A player can develop a solid three point shot over time and hard work and attrition. If he wants to stay in the NBA, he needs to be able to hit the three ball at an elite rate and do it from well behind the arc to space the floor.

Players are prone to hesitate to change their "game" esp as it's all they know and it' what got them to the NBA in the first place. But Burke has to commit to actually understanding the flow of the offense and accepting a more limited role to actually facilitate for his team mates.

A lot of players don't have the self humility and awareness to be subvert what they perceive as their strengths to just focusing on a specific role far less than what they hoped for their career.

He just needs to get dramatically stronger as well. He'll never have length, but guy needs to start juicing at an Olympian type level.

anrst wrote:this thread is the first time i've ever seen him described as very talented

We should play Frank. Let Sessions and Baker spell him. Frank has all of the physical and mental attributes to excel. Let him go through his growing pains and gain chemistry with KP, Willy, THJr, Dotson and Baker.

It happens, Lowry was previously brought up, even Chauncey Billups.

We have Ntilikina set up as the pg of the future (at least he'd better be) - what we need now is someone who has gone through the hardship of establishing himself as a rotation player, who has gone through the gauntlet of learning what it takes to get minutes - who can help teach the nuances of getting it done.

Burke doesn't provide that.

He'd be yet another player trying to earn his keep and figure things out. Imho not a good match.

For this purpose Sessions is a better choice.

Knickoftime wrote:

Paris907 wrote:Can someone explain to me why they are working OT to secure one more guard when theyve 6 in place.

Be glad to.

First you have to cite wherever and whenever anyone said they're "working overtime" to secure another guard.

The fact that there is a report the Knicks are even entertaining Burke and Jack means they don't believe Frank and handle a significant role.

I just don't understand not signing rondo..smh

Knickoftime wrote:

Paris907 wrote:Can someone explain to me why they are working OT to secure one more guard when theyve 6 in place.

Be glad to.

First you have to cite wherever and whenever anyone said they're "working overtime" to secure another guard.

No problem. They have Lee, Baker both of whom are overpaid for what they've provided, yet they'll play minutes and potentially start. So apart from the 6 they've under contract,
Knicks mangement is still dickin around or "workin OT" (that's my term) to secure what either Sessions/Lee/Nitty/Dotson/BAker or ThJr can't. Sure why not being in Prigioni too? Jarrett Jack is baked. Randle they've all but passed on. GODWIN is a player Horny should know well by now, and so now Jamaraz or XRM or Burke? I'm calling it OT. What do you wanna call it ? So who sits if we draft Doncic? Alec Shrev anyone ? Is Chris Child's still in the league?

Paris907 wrote:Knicks mangement is still dickin around or "workin OT" (that's my term)

When your term has little to no relationship to what you're attempting to describe and is in fact misleading, probably a good idea to put it in quotes like you just did.

I'm calling it OT. What do you wanna call it ?

The front office considering potential roster additions with a minimum offer (the only available to them) in the offseason?

I call it their job description.

BigDaddyG wrote:Maybe he improves?

It's entirely possible. Though I suspect it's not likely.

Trey Burke does not have an elite tool set. Nor does he have the core physical building blocks in place to hint at possible upside.

JaVale McGee really doesn't get much credit for being a true physical specimen. Given his height, length, wingspan, athleticism, hops, strength and ability to move, it should not be possible for a human being that large to move quite like that. I recognize this is true of a lot of pro athletes, but McGee was basically a test tube case ( both his parents were professional athletes) Just from a raw physical standpoint, McGee could have been one of the best players in NBA history. But he's stupid. He's really stupid actually. His decision making makes you wonder what the hell is going on in his head. However his raw tool set allows him to get a role and stay in the league.

Burke's physical limitations means he needs to be a high IQ/elite decision maker who understands how to read the floor and run the offense. He can't. He tries, but he can't.

If you have length, at least you can clog up the passing lanes on the perimeter. If you have size, at least you clog the middle. But if you lack true athleticism at this level, you just need to bring more intangibles to the table.

He's a Quad A type guy. Think of guys like Dilson Herrera or Kevin Plawecki for the Mets. Too good for Triple A, but not quite good enough to get over the hump in the bigs. Burke can create his own shot, against lesser competition. He just can't do it effectively enough at the top level.

IF he had a better tool set, he wouldn't be available. Some other team would give him a chance and done so before now.

What's his ceiling if everything goes right and he works very hard? A no defense bench gunner who dramatically improved his 3 point shot and changed his game and body enough to at least be a semi regular threat to penetrate to the rim. But we are talking massive work here and honestly massive PEDS/Juicing needed.

Paris907 wrote:So let me get this right. We've what, some 10-11 guards that we're "assessing" and Lee,'Tim and Nitty are in as are Baker and Sessions. Dotson is in too.
So what do we have Jamaraz, XRM, Godwin, Burke, Randle, and the former Net. That's a dozen. If the Knicks management are simply doing there homework, that's fine. Yet it seems that they are trying to catch lightning in a bottle. I mean they've signed up or have 6 under contract. So what's the sweat? Can someone explain to me why they are working OT to secure one more guard when theyve 6 in place. I see Alex Scved is scoring 23 per for Russia. Why not throw him in the mix while we're at it.

Lee might be traded.
Ntilikina and Dotson are rookies. They'll hit the rookie wall at some point and you can't bank on rookies giving you anything
Sessions is a vet minimum fringe signing. He could easily be toasted by now and cut
Baker had a nice year last year, but no guarantee it translates to this year
The rest are fringe guys or D League guys.
If you mean Archie Goodwin, he signed with the Blazers on a camp deal.
Also injuries happen.

Bill Parcells - When you have two quarterbacks, you really have none

Knicks have 11-12 dudes. OK, but most are just fringe cannon fodder types. Given their situation, the issue is AMASS VALUE and you keep doing so without regard to POSITIONAL VALUE. If the Knicks can get some talented PFs and have 10 already, so what, get an 11th. They desperately need NBA level rotation talent. If it's a center, a guard, a Stretch 4, a wing, who cares.

You worry about NEED AND FIT AND POSITIONAL STABILITY when you are teams like the Spurs, the Warriors, the Rockets, teams set to win and push.

Knicks are one injury and a trade/or a roster cut away from being totally gutted in the backcourt.

TripleThreat wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Maybe he improves?

It's entirely possible. Though I suspect it's not likely.

Trey Burke does not have an elite tool set. Nor does he have the core physical building blocks in place to hint at possible upside.

JaVale McGee really doesn't get much credit for being a true physical specimen. Given his height, length, wingspan, athleticism, hops, strength and ability to move, it should not be possible for a human being that large to move quite like that. I recognize this is true of a lot of pro athletes, but McGee was basically a test tube case ( both his parents were professional athletes) Just from a raw physical standpoint, McGee could have been one of the best players in NBA history. But he's stupid. He's really stupid actually. His decision making makes you wonder what the hell is going on in his head. However his raw tool set allows him to get a role and stay in the league.

Burke's physical limitations means he needs to be a high IQ/elite decision maker who understands how to read the floor and run the offense. He can't. He tries, but he can't.

If you have length, at least you can clog up the passing lanes on the perimeter. If you have size, at least you clog the middle. But if you lack true athleticism at this level, you just need to bring more intangibles to the table.

He's a Quad A type guy. Think of guys like Dilson Herrera or Kevin Plawecki for the Mets. Too good for Triple A, but not quite good enough to get over the hump in the bigs. Burke can create his own shot, against lesser competition. He just can't do it effectively enough at the top level.

IF he had a better tool set, he wouldn't be available. Some other team would give him a chance and done so before now.

What's his ceiling if everything goes right and he works very hard? A no defense bench gunner who dramatically improved his 3 point shot and changed his game and body enough to at least be a semi regular threat to penetrate to the rim. But we are talking massive work here and honestly massive PEDS/Juicing needed.

Paris907 wrote:So let me get this right. We've what, some 10-11 guards that we're "assessing" and Lee,'Tim and Nitty are in as are Baker and Sessions. Dotson is in too.
So what do we have Jamaraz, XRM, Godwin, Burke, Randle, and the former Net. That's a dozen. If the Knicks management are simply doing there homework, that's fine. Yet it seems that they are trying to catch lightning in a bottle. I mean they've signed up or have 6 under contract. So what's the sweat? Can someone explain to me why they are working OT to secure one more guard when theyve 6 in place. I see Alex Scved is scoring 23 per for Russia. Why not throw him in the mix while we're at it.

Lee might be traded.
Ntilikina and Dotson are rookies. They'll hit the rookie wall at some point and you can't bank on rookies giving you anything
Sessions is a vet minimum fringe signing. He could easily be toasted by now and cut
Baker had a nice year last year, but no guarantee it translates to this year
The rest are fringe guys or D League guys.
If you mean Archie Goodwin, he signed with the Blazers on a camp deal.
Also injuries happen.

Bill Parcells - When you have two quarterbacks, you really have none

Knicks have 11-12 dudes. OK, but most are just fringe cannon fodder types. Given their situation, the issue is AMASS VALUE and you keep doing so without regard to POSITIONAL VALUE. If the Knicks can get some talented PFs and have 10 already, so what, get an 11th. They desperately need NBA level rotation talent. If it's a center, a guard, a Stretch 4, a wing, who cares.

You worry about NEED AND FIT AND POSITIONAL STABILITY when you are teams like the Spurs, the Warriors, the Rockets, teams set to win and push.

Knicks are one injury and a trade/or a roster cut away from being totally gutted in the backcourt.

That's an intelligent response and i that's palatable. It beats Knickotime concerning himself with where the quotes Belong. Lee is trade fodder I agree and he's earning too much as his presence won't have a material impact on how many games we win. There was some reference of him absorbing minutes at SF but given the height and athleticism of young small forwards today it wouldn't work. The other issue I see is the premium Paid Baker. Sure we like his grit and his court sense but did I read 29% from 3? That simply won't get it done unless your one is the very top defenders like Bradley which I doubt will occur.

TripleThreat wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Maybe he improves?

It's entirely possible. Though I suspect it's not likely.

Trey Burke does not have an elite tool set. Nor does he have the core physical building blocks in place to hint at possible upside.

JaVale McGee really doesn't get much credit for being a true physical specimen. Given his height, length, wingspan, athleticism, hops, strength and ability to move, it should not be possible for a human being that large to move quite like that. I recognize this is true of a lot of pro athletes, but McGee was basically a test tube case ( both his parents were professional athletes) Just from a raw physical standpoint, McGee could have been one of the best players in NBA history. But he's stupid. He's really stupid actually. His decision making makes you wonder what the hell is going on in his head. However his raw tool set allows him to get a role and stay in the league.

Burke's physical limitations means he needs to be a high IQ/elite decision maker who understands how to read the floor and run the offense. He can't. He tries, but he can't.

If you have length, at least you can clog up the passing lanes on the perimeter. If you have size, at least you clog the middle. But if you lack true athleticism at this level, you just need to bring more intangibles to the table.

He's a Quad A type guy. Think of guys like Dilson Herrera or Kevin Plawecki for the Mets. Too good for Triple A, but not quite good enough to get over the hump in the bigs. Burke can create his own shot, against lesser competition. He just can't do it effectively enough at the top level.

IF he had a better tool set, he wouldn't be available. Some other team would give him a chance and done so before now.

What's his ceiling if everything goes right and he works very hard? A no defense bench gunner who dramatically improved his 3 point shot and changed his game and body enough to at least be a semi regular threat to penetrate to the rim. But we are talking massive work here and honestly massive PEDS/Juicing needed.

Dan Dickau is the name that comes to mind when I think of Burke. Dickau was a bust who managed to squeeze 1.5 to 2 decent seasons in his career. The physical limitations will keep him at that level. You might be more optimistic than me, because I don't even think there's enough PEDs in the world to make him a starting caliber NBA PG lol. But he might turn into a rotation guy if he focuses on improving shot selection and passing.