Ultimateknicks.com Forums: Cavs may void Kyrie trade

From the Celticsblog:
After taking his physical in Cleveland Friday, the Cavaliers may be reconsidering the agreed upon Kyrie Irving trade executed Monday, reports ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski. Thomas traveled to Cleveland for his physical and then flew back out of town afterwards per Woj.
League sources previously told Celticsblog after the trade that Thomas’ physical may present concerns for Cleveland, but that it was not expected to result in the trade being voided. However, Woj reports that the physical has resulted in creating a, “very sensitive situation.”

Although medical staffs from each team exchanged the requisite information as is standard for a trade of this magnitude — involving players with injury histories — the Cavaliers are within their rights to call off the trade if Thomas fails his physical. The trade could also be renegotiated to increase compensation to Cleveland for assuming the injury risk. There is precedent for trades being voided after the physical, including most recently Donatas Montiejunas’ voided trade to the Detroit Pistons in 2016 and Tyson Chandler’s voided deal to the Oklahoma City Thunder in 2009.
The extreme sensitivity involved here is first and foremost concerning the cloudy public perception of Thomas’ health, which has remained murky throughout the offseason as he slowly recovered from a hip labrum tear on which he elected not to have surgery after visiting various doctors throughout the country.
The other prevailing concern is that the Cavaliers exercising their right to back out of the trade due to a failed physical would return Thomas and Crowder back to the Celtics, where the bridge has been set ablaze if not incinerated. Although the wound can heal, it would be an incredibly difficult situation.

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8/25/2017 11:52 PM

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8/25/2017 11:53 PM

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TLover wrote:I would swoop back in and try to acquire Kyrie.

well going by what the celtics gave up we cant afford to give up all that. We're talking KP and a unprotected first Just as a starting point

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8/25/2017 11:56 PM

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Wow,dirty Angie trying to dump damaged goods,sounds so Boston, Boston sports teams are always cheating . still I don't think the cavs get a top 4 pick like they will with the nets pick. Even if Thomas is damaged goods it still might be the best offer on the table.

We are not giving the cavs anything for kyrie we all know he'll be coming here in two years when his contract is up and our core is even better/older. If I'm the knicks I'm not giving the cavs a draft pick that could turn into doncic or porter.

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8/26/2017 12:04 AM

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Man I do feel bad for Thomas if his injury is that bad, I hate the celtics and it killed me to see him in there uniform cause I really like his offensive game it hard not to root for a guy who is barley 5'9 unless he's on the celtics .

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8/26/2017 3:04 AM

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I don't really know why Ainge thought it was a good idea to say that the hip injury played a part in the Celtics decision to trade IT- why would you openly admit that? It infers that there is a serious problem.

Woj said that the Cavs value the pick more than IT, and so are angling for another. If the Celtics don't agree, then I don't see why the Cavs would do the deal. If all they want is a high pick and the player they get back doesn't matter, we could give them that, as could the Suns and a few other teams.

If the deal collapses the celtics are screwed.

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8/26/2017 6:29 AM

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smackeddog wrote:I don't really know why Ainge thought it was a good idea to say that the hip injury played a part in the Celtics decision to trade IT- why would you openly admit that? It infers that there is a serious problem.
Woj said that the Cavs value the pick more than IT, and so are angling for another. If the Celtics don't agree, then I don't see why the Cavs would do the deal. If all they want is a high pick and the player they get back doesn't matter, we could give them that, as could the Suns and a few other teams.
If the deal collapses the celtics are screwed.

Who else gives them a forward like Crowder. I would talk to the Suns for Bledsoe and an unprotected pick

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8/26/2017 6:44 AM

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smackeddog wrote:I don't really know why Ainge thought it was a good idea to say that the hip injury played a part in the Celtics decision to trade IT- why would you openly admit that? It infers that there is a serious problem.
Woj said that the Cavs value the pick more than IT, and so are angling for another. If the Celtics don't agree, then I don't see why the Cavs would do the deal. If all they want is a high pick and the player they get back doesn't matter, we could give them that, as could the Suns and a few other teams.
If the deal collapses the celtics are screwed.

It costs him nothing to discuss what everyone knows already. If anything, it gives the public perception of transparency so there will be no future issues later. The Cavs know what they are getting, and always have, this is just posturing to try to milk out another asset.

If the trade voids, the Celtics will be fine. Crowder is the best value wing contract in the entire league. If they want to trade him, teams will literally line up for him. Western teams especially. The Brooklyn pick has value. IT, some team will take a risk on him in a trade if they want to move him.

LBJ NEEDS Irving gone to ease the future narrative on why he's leaving himself. Irving staying on the Cavs is worse than IT staying on the Celtics. Also I don't think the Cavs will find a better deal at this point in the offseason.

Not really hard to see. Wojo doesn't get info for free. He has to trade for it like everyone else. Koby Altman is the new GM for the Cavs. Wojo wants that bonded relationship with him for insider status. Pushing this narrative hard serves the Cavs and it costs Wojo nothing, but spinning it this way gains him everything. Cavs have no reason to cancel this trade. But maybe they will, LeGM means anything totally insane is possible.

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8/26/2017 6:52 AM

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StarksEwing1 wrote:
TLover wrote:I would swoop back in and try to acquire Kyrie.
well going by what the celtics gave up we cant afford to give up all that. We're talking KP and a unprotected first Just as a starting point

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8/26/2017 7:36 AM LAST EDITED: 8/26/2017 8:11 AM

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I thought these things were up to the teams doctor. If they want IT to pass physical they pass him, if they want him to fail he fails.

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8/26/2017 7:47 AM

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I agree that the Cavs will try to get more out of Boston. Thought Boston had more draft picks, guess its all the recent deals. I wonder if cash would help close the deal? Boston only would have Kyrie under contract for 2 seasons. Not sure they want to go through any more picks, especially first round.

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8/26/2017 7:53 AM

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GustavBahler wrote:I agree that the Cavs will try to get more out of Boston. Thought Boston had more draft picks, guess its all the recent deals. I wonder if cash would help close the deal? Boston only would have Kyrie under contract for 2 seasons. Not sure they want to go through any more picks, especially first round.

I thought Boston gave up too much for Irving, and unless Thomas is going to be out for the season, if I were them, I would not give up any more. They gave them Crowder and the Nets Pick. I agree that I would offer cash, but if I am Boston, I would not give up any more picks or players.

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8/26/2017 9:12 AM

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Gilbert trying to get a little bit extra. Nothing is getting voided.

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TripleThreat
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8/26/2017 3:39 PM

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JesseDark wrote:I thought these things were up to the teams doctor. If they want IT to pass physical they pass him, if they want him to fail he fails.

The battery of tests were standardized about 3 CBAs ago. Mostly it was formed as liability prevention from players dying on the court and then their surviving families trying to nail the NBA and teams. This was around the time that the NFL ran into a few issues as such.

If a player has torn his ACL, then he's torn his ACL. There's no room for intepretation

The "gray area" is if a player tore his ACL and the medical staff evaluates the RISK/LIKELIHOOD of tearing it again.

Case in point, one of the concerns with Stephen Matz of the Mets is that statistically, pitchers tend to face more arm problems around 6-7 years AFTER their first Tommy John surgery. So teams thinking about signing a FA veteran pitcher with 5 years since his last TJ, has to think on that pretty hard.

At any point, as long as the medical issue is non life threatening, and is not HIV related ( Magic/Bosh fallout), a team can choose to WAIVE their right to reject a trade based on a failed physical. Meaning the team can choose to take the assumed risk. A situation would be like Durant and his foot/heel issue. Plenty of teams would sign him if he was a FA and let him heal and take the risk that he might not return to form, because the upside is so great.

Ainge isn't going to buckle here. He's not going to blink.

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8/26/2017 3:57 PM LAST EDITED: 8/26/2017 6:10 PM

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TripleThreat wrote:
JesseDark wrote:I thought these things were up to the teams doctor. If they want IT to pass physical they pass him, if they want him to fail he fails.

The battery of tests were standardized about 3 CBAs ago. Mostly it was formed as liability prevention from players dying on the court and then their surviving families trying to nail the NBA and teams. This was around the time that the NFL ran into a few issues as such.
If a player has torn his ACL, then he's torn his ACL. There's no room for intepretation
The "gray area" is if a player tore his ACL and the medical staff evaluates the RISK/LIKELIHOOD of tearing it again.
Case in point, one of the concerns with Stephen Matz of the Mets is that statistically, pitchers tend to face more arm problems around 6-7 years AFTER their first Tommy John surgery. So teams thinking about signing a FA veteran pitcher with 5 years since his last TJ, has to think on that pretty hard.
At any point, as long as the medical issue is non life threatening, and is not HIV related ( Magic/Bosh fallout), a team can choose to WAIVE their right to reject a trade based on a failed physical. Meaning the team can choose to take the assumed risk. A situation would be like Durant and his foot/heel issue. Plenty of teams would sign him if he was a FA and let him heal and take the risk that he might not return to form, because the upside is so great.
Ainge isn't going to buckle here. He's not going to blink.

Thanks for the through response. I can't see how IT can go back to Boston if this deal falls thru.

Bring back dee-fense

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8/26/2017 6:56 PM

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8/26/2017 7:44 PM

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