Posted by Allanfan20:
But although, Boozer somehow slipped under EVERYONES radar, that doesn't make it an excuse and that includes Layden. Carlos Boozer is in a different league than Frank Williams. He had the chance to be a Knick. He's not a Knick b/c we drafted Frank. Again, I love Frank, but when you are in the position the Knicks were in, you gotto go by the best players.

Frank was pretty highly touted coming out of college though...i think the Knicks had him rated just after Jay Williams that year as the best PG on the board, & they were in desperate need of a PG as well...no one could have known we'd be getting Marbury a year later...& we already have about 6 PF's on the roster already at that point, didn't we? i think most teams had Frank rated higher on their depth charts than Boozer...i can't fault Layden for that one...if you want to fault him for not drafting Boozer, you could also blame him for not drafting Amare Stoudamire as well over Nené...but he would have probably been traded for McDyess anyway, so what does it matter?

Posted by raven:

Posted by Nalod:


My view is this team has a 70% chance of being +or- .500 ball, 15% of reaching the conf. finals or better, and a 10% chance of being a disaster (34 wins or less).

as the old saying says, there are three kind of people in this world. those who can count, and those who can't.

Ooops Ok, it was to be 75% team is better. Thanks!lol

It is kinda funny when Isiah is being critiqued, we bring up Laydog.

Laydog had 4 years. If you hate Isiah, give him some time!

I like the "laydog is not Bianci"!

Wait, Isiah didn't have a lot to work with? Sure, only multiple #1 draft picks, promising young players that Layden aquired, about $30 million in expiring contracts and close to $200 million in additional contracts that Dolan signed off on. Aside from that, he didn't have much.

Since we no longer have those assets to acquire players in the future it is crap to say that we still have the same assets to use. We don't have young promising players aside from Sweetney, we have limited use of draft picks to trade because of the 2 that went in the Marbury deal and how many more times are we going to be able to take back tens of millions in deals?

Do you really deny that Isiah had plenty to work with when he started making over the Knicks roster?

if you want to fault him for not drafting Boozer, you could also blame him for not drafting Amare Stoudamire as well over Nené

lol, I have many times.

Again though, you make a point about Frank Williams, but there's still no excuse for Boozer slipping all the way to 35. Heck, we drafted Milos over him, didn't we?

If you think that multiple #1 draft picks, promising young players like Lampe, FW and Vujanic, about $30 million in expiring contracts and close to $200 million in available funds are lousy assets to work with then I guess we're better off agreeing to disagree.

why are Lampe, FW and Vujanic (say it again... he's 25 and never playing in the US) more promising then Crawford, Ariza? Why is Vujanic who NEVER PLAY in the US a promising young player at 25? But you call Tim Thomas, Marbury and NAzr who are 27 (WHOOA, 2 years older!!!) garbage?

Oh wait... let me gues... has something w/ Isiah getting them.

If TT is garbage for his contract, then Houston is the scum of the NBA as well. (Silverfeul and Simrud, keep quiet!) Tim Thomas is still a good player, and he is saying that he's working hard this Summer. Now, my knock on him is that he's more talk than walk, so lets see what happens, but for now, I have to take his word for it.

Saying that he is garbage though is ignorant, even if it's for his contract, b/c he will be quite tradable in just about a year from now.

Isles, some of the things you say are intelligent and thought out, others it seems like you just can't agree with the crowd and have to say something different and negative.

Case in point, right here:

"If you think that multiple #1 draft picks, promising young players like Lampe, FW and Vujanic, about $30 million in expiring contracts and close to $200 million in available funds are lousy assets to work with then I guess we're better off agreeing to disagree."

Expiring contracts and draft picks are good things to deal.

Did you watch any of the Olympics? If you didn't that's fine, but I taped basically every international basketball game and watched 2 Serbian games and their US exhibition. Milos Vujanic is not good. He's not promising. He's young, but he's a guy who stays in Europe for his entire career. He isn't a particularly good shooter, doesn't set anybody up well, has spotty ballhandling, and is a horrible defender. That's what I've seen. I know you probably read the Chad Ford articles on him monthly about how he's the next coming of Pete Maravich, but he isn't. I've watched this guy IN HIS OWN GAME and he didn't play well. Now he's going to come to the NBA, with a farther 3-point line, no moving picks, and better athletes and produce. NO way, that's just you making things up.

Frank Williams was a good player, but if he evolves into anything more than a 10-point, 6 assist player I'd be shocked. He just doesn't have the physical skills (not quick, not strong) to make him a great point guard.

Lampe might be the slowest player...IN SUMMER LEAGUE. Once again, I taped the majority of the summer league games this year and last year and watched them after work. Both years he's shown the same thing. Great shooter for a guy his size, but the guy is SOOO SLOW. It's really unbelievable. He has no post moves and doesn't defend well. I see him being a bench player who can drain jumpers, kind of like a taller, less talented Kurt Thomas, or an old version of Sam Perkins.

When you trade basically expiring contracts and two busts for Marbury, you do it. 20/8 point guards don't grow on trees. I would've liked to keep one since they have high value, or one of the draft picks, regardless. It's a good move.

When you trade Frank Williams, a guy who's ceiling is probably 10 points and 6 assists, and crap, for Jamal Crawford, a player who's ceiling is probably 20 points and 5 assists, you do that.

If Isiah didn't make these moves, he'd be fired. They are furthering the franchise, upping the talent level, and making the Knicks younger, more athletic, and more competitive. How anybody could be truly against it when looking at all of this is beyond me.

Posted by islesfan:

Or Scotty Stirling.

Sterling was worse than Layden. By trading the first round pick that became Scotty Pippen for Juwan Oldham, he altered the balance of power in the NBA for over a decade.

There is no question that if Pippen had played with Ewing instead of Jordan, the Knicks would have won multiple championships.

Sterling was probably the worst GM in the history of organized sports.