only teams like Boston and Philly, if they OVERPAY GREATLY with multiple draft picks, and maybe some solid contracts would i consider doing so
I think KP will continue to improve, however, he has great work ethic but his lack of foot speed makes me question him on both OFFENSE and DEFENSE, despite his length will he ever be able to defend someone that can hit the 3pter and have the ability to penetrate? He looks like he can play the 5 better this year but we will have to see but last season i dont think he could defend either position without needing help...

Will he ever have a ceiling on DEFENSE like Greek Freak, Anthony Davis, Towns,

even Durant etc?

i do not know if we have the ability to resign in 2years as a RFA, him to those super max deals with 150million for 5 years *and could be MORE if he becomes a NBA 1st, 2nd, 3rd team*

GustavBahler wrote:

RonRon wrote:and who are we signing with that cap space?

only teams like Boston and Philly, if they OVERPAY GREATLY with multiple draft picks, and maybe some solid contracts would i consider doing so
I think KP will continue to improve, however, he has great work ethic but his lack of foot speed makes me question him on both OFFENSE and DEFENSE, despite his length will he ever be able to defend someone that can hit the 3pter and have the ability to penetrate? He looks like he can play the 5 better this year but we will have to see but last season i dont think he could defend either position without needing help...

Will he ever have a ceiling on DEFENSE like Greek Freak, Anthony Davis, Towns,

even Durant etc?

i do not know if we have the ability to resign in 2years as a RFA, him to those super max deals with 150million for 5 years *and could be MORE if he becomes a NBA 1st, 2nd, 3rd team*

Please dont tell me that a 7'3 center who can crossover guards lacks foot speed.

It's not his foot speed that I'm concerned about, It's his awareness and development under the knicks management. Players don't seem to get much better in NY, especially young players.

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

RonRon wrote:and who are we signing with that cap space?

only teams like Boston and Philly, if they OVERPAY GREATLY with multiple draft picks, and maybe some solid contracts would i consider doing so
I think KP will continue to improve, however, he has great work ethic but his lack of foot speed makes me question him on both OFFENSE and DEFENSE, despite his length will he ever be able to defend someone that can hit the 3pter and have the ability to penetrate? He looks like he can play the 5 better this year but we will have to see but last season i dont think he could defend either position without needing help...

Will he ever have a ceiling on DEFENSE like Greek Freak, Anthony Davis, Towns,

even Durant etc?

i do not know if we have the ability to resign in 2years as a RFA, him to those super max deals with 150million for 5 years *and could be MORE if he becomes a NBA 1st, 2nd, 3rd team*

Please dont tell me that a 7'3 center who can crossover guards lacks foot speed.

It's not his foot speed that I'm concerned about, It's his awareness and development under the knicks management. Players don't seem to get much better in NY, especially young players.

CrushAlot wrote:Woj wrote about 'the distance' between KP and the Knicks in his article. I hadn't read the Post article until just now. I think Martin is right but Woj writing this holds a bit more weight because of who he is.

It's less about Woj and his "WojBombs" and more about his clear and established relationship with Zinger's representation, ASM Sports. Woj is a mouthpiece using his influence to try to drive a trade for a reason.

Long story short - Zinger does not want to be a Knick. Gutting Jackson wasn't going to create any traction in that regard.

If the Knicks can trade Zinger and dump Noah's contract at the same time and get Irving, I say do it. Do it and let Irving drive some marketing for the team for a short while and then first chance, retrade him. It's not about keeping Irving, it's about value. Irving is more valuable than Zinger in a trade right now, but because of the circumstances, his trade value is a bit tanked.

If Zinger doesn't want to be here, then the Knicks are better off just rebooting. If they can dump Noah, then dump him in a trade with Zinger. Maybe they can move Courtney Lee and be done with it for the most part. The cap space can be used like the Nets to essentially rent the space for young players or picks. Before the market collapses on teams with open cap space.

Is it the ideal option? No.

But if Zinger doesn't want to be here, and that's the base indication, then make the best of it.

I don't think the Cavs take Noah's contract though. In order to make a deal like this, they need to move Tristan Thompson and/or Kevin Love for more wing help. Not sure that's feasible now. Zinger is a PF. Love is a PF. Thompson is PF. Only Zinger out of those three can actually defend the rim ( well sort of) To take in Zinger, the Cavs need to unclog the PF situation.

If it was just Zinger and something like Lee/O'Quinn for Irving to make the salaries match, then do it. Do it and don't look back. Retrade value of Irving is going to be a more highball potential than Zinger. I realize most people here won't agree with that, but teams are going to look at Irving's marketing and "draw" potential, plus his relationship with Nike in terms of franchise overall valuation.

Same rules apply to any "marriage" out there. No matter how hot she is, if she's blowing some other dude besides you, that ring means nothing.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

RonRon wrote:and who are we signing with that cap space?

only teams like Boston and Philly, if they OVERPAY GREATLY with multiple draft picks, and maybe some solid contracts would i consider doing so
I think KP will continue to improve, however, he has great work ethic but his lack of foot speed makes me question him on both OFFENSE and DEFENSE, despite his length will he ever be able to defend someone that can hit the 3pter and have the ability to penetrate? He looks like he can play the 5 better this year but we will have to see but last season i dont think he could defend either position without needing help...

Will he ever have a ceiling on DEFENSE like Greek Freak, Anthony Davis, Towns,

even Durant etc?

i do not know if we have the ability to resign in 2years as a RFA, him to those super max deals with 150million for 5 years *and could be MORE if he becomes a NBA 1st, 2nd, 3rd team*

Please dont tell me that a 7'3 center who can crossover guards lacks foot speed.

It's not his foot speed that I'm concerned about, It's his awareness and development under the knicks management. Players don't seem to get much better in NY, especially young players.

This is a bit too much IMO. We saw some improvement by different players over the last couple of years. KP, Willy, Baker, Holiday and LT in particular played better. The team is focused on developing youth and the team has a lot of young players on the roster and probably will have more if they make the Melo trade.

Aside from kp, none of those players were here for more than a 1 yr so how in the world you can say they got better. I'm talking about landry fields, tony douglas, Wilson chandler, thj, even nate and lee, whose games got better offensively, but still remain a major liability defensively.

Why you think we always end up trading them, they never became game changers. We have sucked at developing players and you know it, and the current coaching staff has zero history of turning boys to men.

keep in mind that kP's biggest issue was with JH and rambis, not so much phil.

development would involve Kp learning not to fall for fakes and jumping to block a shot from a player 6 inches shorter, something he did from the beginning of the season, to his last game of the season..wTF was RAMBis teaching him

pros- we will get back cap flexibility that was lost with the deal with noah and thj. the Carmelo situation could become better as he can be a better partner with irving than porzingis which could either build up his stock or we could try to compete with melo during his later years. with the cap flexibility we could do so as more free agents could look at ny as a legit destination especially in the east with only boston as a strong favorite after next year. perry is our best recruiter in years and he could reel in the "big fish". we also get a bonafide superstar ( arguably) and definite top 15 player ( some say top ten) and get rid of a player with potential but has been injured the past two years before reaching it. could this be a constant problem? what if porzingis become a bust once he is handed the "keys" to the franchise? this could be his highest value. we need to stay on the train or get off. the time is now.

cons- we get rid of possibly future top ten player in the league with a skill set that the franchise have never seen before. with the right player development ( which was probably why it was revamped this off season), he could be a perennial all nba team candidate. if we get irving, can he lead this team to the playoffs? it might be harder to make a team around his playing style also. the youth on our team will be on a different trajectory so they might get traded. it would be more of a "now" team than a future team. also, should we try for now when we know that we can not make a team that can compete with the likes of the warriors or Houston? is it better to build a team to compete to go against boston in a few years than the warriors of now? the cap room is good but we really haven't delivered since 2010. when we did go all in in free agency it becomes a big disappointment.

looking at both sides, I would still hold on to porzingis. I love the youth movement and I want to see porzingis grow into the superstar that he should be. it is intriguing having a sixers lite team also, a group that can grow together and getting better every season. that was what golden state did.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

RonRon wrote:and who are we signing with that cap space?

only teams like Boston and Philly, if they OVERPAY GREATLY with multiple draft picks, and maybe some solid contracts would i consider doing so
I think KP will continue to improve, however, he has great work ethic but his lack of foot speed makes me question him on both OFFENSE and DEFENSE, despite his length will he ever be able to defend someone that can hit the 3pter and have the ability to penetrate? He looks like he can play the 5 better this year but we will have to see but last season i dont think he could defend either position without needing help...

Will he ever have a ceiling on DEFENSE like Greek Freak, Anthony Davis, Towns,

even Durant etc?

i do not know if we have the ability to resign in 2years as a RFA, him to those super max deals with 150million for 5 years *and could be MORE if he becomes a NBA 1st, 2nd, 3rd team*

Please dont tell me that a 7'3 center who can crossover guards lacks foot speed.

It's not his foot speed that I'm concerned about, It's his awareness and development under the knicks management. Players don't seem to get much better in NY, especially young players.

This is a bit too much IMO. We saw some improvement by different players over the last couple of years. KP, Willy, Baker, Holiday and LT in particular played better. The team is focused on developing youth and the team has a lot of young players on the roster and probably will have more if they make the Melo trade.

get better how?

Aside from kp, none of those players were here for more than a 1 yr so how in the world you can say they got better. I'm talking about landry fields, tony douglas, Wilson chandler, thj, even nate and lee, whose games got better offensively, but still remain a major liability defensively.

Why you think we always end up trading them, they never became game changers. We have sucked at developing players and you know it, and the current coaching staff has zero history of turning boys to men.

keep in mind that kP's biggest issue was with JH and rambis, not so much phil.

development would involve Kp learning not to fall for fakes and jumping to block a shot from a player 6 inches shorter, something he did from the beginning of the season, to his last game of the season..wTF was RAMBis teaching him

From the start of the year to the end the players got better. It's all relative to starting point and end point. You can't MAGICALLY make a player more talented. You can only enhance what the player already has and of course a lot depends on the players work ethic and desire to get better.

The past trades have nothing to do with the current young players on the roster. KP is training on his own this summer and so the Knicks aren't controlling his current offseason program. Willy is also training on his own, tho we don't know if he was given certain instructions at his exit meeting. However, Baker and many of the other young players are in New York.

You really need to keep in perspective that young players make mistakes. You want to blame Rambis or Jeff for KP falling for pump fakes. But you really ignored that KP came back BETTER at the start of the year, got injured and fell off but was actually starting to get his game back at the end of the year before he tweaked his back.

Kristaps Porzingis
By Month  GP  MIN   FGM-FGA   FG%   3PM-3PA  3P%  FTM-FTA  FT%  OR  DR  REB  AST  BLK  STL  PF  TO  PTS
October	  2   34.5  6.0-12.0  .500  2.0-4.5  .444 4.5-7.0  .643 2.0 4.0 6.0  1.0  1.5  0.5  5.0 1.0 18.5
November  16  33.8  8.1-16.6  .491  2.4-5.9  .400 3.1-3.8  .820 1.8 5.5 7.3  1.4  1.5  0.8  3.6 1.4 21.8
December  14  35.9  6.6-16.4  .402  1.9-4.6  .400 3.5-4.4  .790 1.9 6.9	8.8  1.4  2.4  0.9  3.6 2.2 18.5
January   10  29.0  5.4-11.9  .454  1.2-4.1  .293 1.9-2.1  .905	1.1 3.2	4.3  1.2  2.0  0.5  4.5	2.0 13.9
February  8   29.1  5.5-13.1  .419  1.6-4.5  .361 2.8-4.0  .688	1.6 5.6	7.3  1.3  2.0  0.8  3.4	1.8 15.4
March     15  33.4  7.0-15.5  .451  1.3-4.5  .279 3.1-3.9  .810	1.9 6.2 8.1  2.1  2.1  0.7  3.6 1.9 18.4

Gudris wrote:Finding point guard is much easier than skilled 7»3 player

Then why have we had just 1(lin's brief stint) in the last 20 yrs

ZERO incentive to move KP for purpose of moving Noah deal.

Only KP deal I had interest in was when Boston had opportunity to draft J-Jackson at #3 and send him to us with potentially Crowder/Rozier and 2018 Net or Laker pick.

Outside of that type deal -- dealing KP for sub 6', often injured, shoot-1st pass 2nd, +25 year old Kyrie -- makes no sense IMO.