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Article from Nylon Calculus: Ranking the best and worst scorers in every offensive role
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martin
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8/9/2017  9:23 PM
Big fan of this Blog, they really delve into stats and numbers to come up with some interesting thoughts, etc. Too long to post and there are some very nice graphs, pics

https://fansided.com/2017/08/09/nylon-calculus-ranking-best-worst-scorers-every-offensive-role/

Modern basketball offenses are devoted to the pursuit of efficiency; but, frustratingly, it’s not entirely straightforward to identify who are the NBA’s most-efficient scorers. The league’s antiquated measure of scoring efficiency — field goal percentage — has been replaced by its more-sophisticated cousin, true shooting percentage; but the business of efficiency ranking is still a bit murky. Consider this year’s true-shooting top-10 — which includes superstars (No. 3 Kevin Durant and No. 10 Stephen Curry), supporting role players (No. 6 Kyle Korver and No. 7 Otto Porter), and dunk-only big men (No. 1 Rudy Gobert and No. 2 DeAndre Jordan).

Of course, the trouble is that a player’s efficiency is closely tied to the difficulty of the shots he takes. Players who are asked to take more-difficult shots for their teams can be forgiven for shooting lower percentages. In contrast, players who feast on wide open or very short shots may convert a higher percentage, but they’re not necessarily great scorers. So, to rank the best scorers in the league, it’s necessary to first consider the roles they play within their offenses.

Below, I group players by their offensive roles and then rank the scorers within each group.

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arkrud
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8/10/2017  12:48 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/10/2017  12:49 AM
martin wrote:Big fan of this Blog, they really delve into stats and numbers to come up with some interesting thoughts, etc. Too long to post and there are some very nice graphs, pics

https://fansided.com/2017/08/09/nylon-calculus-ranking-best-worst-scorers-every-offensive-role/

Modern basketball offenses are devoted to the pursuit of efficiency; but, frustratingly, it’s not entirely straightforward to identify who are the NBA’s most-efficient scorers. The league’s antiquated measure of scoring efficiency — field goal percentage — has been replaced by its more-sophisticated cousin, true shooting percentage; but the business of efficiency ranking is still a bit murky. Consider this year’s true-shooting top-10 — which includes superstars (No. 3 Kevin Durant and No. 10 Stephen Curry), supporting role players (No. 6 Kyle Korver and No. 7 Otto Porter), and dunk-only big men (No. 1 Rudy Gobert and No. 2 DeAndre Jordan).

Of course, the trouble is that a player’s efficiency is closely tied to the difficulty of the shots he takes. Players who are asked to take more-difficult shots for their teams can be forgiven for shooting lower percentages. In contrast, players who feast on wide open or very short shots may convert a higher percentage, but they’re not necessarily great scorers. So, to rank the best scorers in the league, it’s necessary to first consider the roles they play within their offenses.

Below, I group players by their offensive roles and then rank the scorers within each group.

It actually brings an interesting point that in many ways every player is a role player.
With role being the most efficient use of his skills.
Star player is player who can take on different roles and still be equally efficient.
More roles the player can fill more closer he gets to supper-star level.
You can take players like Durant, or Greek, orHarden, or Westbrook and they can be efficient in multiple roles.
And you can look at Melo who is efficient only in one role.
This were the clear separation is most visible.
Player who is crazy good in only one role can only be a complimentary player and succeed only on very specific settings.
No team can be build around such player.
We may have this kind of diverse talent in KP but this is to be seen.
Team should be collecting assets and cap space for exactly one reason to be able to get this kind of player when he will became available.

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meloshouldgo
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8/10/2017  1:48 PM
What did you find in that article that showed Melo was good at anything? Melo came second in a group of 2 for his own chosen style of play with which he has persisted no matter what. I think this approach does a lot to classify players based on their style of play, it also looks at %ge of shoot clock used. I wanted to see how people would stack up if their PPP was normalized by shot clock usage, I can guarantee Melo would be in the bottom 5 if not the worst in the whole NBA.
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newyorknewyork
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8/10/2017  2:04 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:What did you find in that article that showed Melo was good at anything? Melo came second in a group of 2 for his own chosen style of play with which he has persisted no matter what. I think this approach does a lot to classify players based on their style of play, it also looks at %ge of shoot clock used. I wanted to see how people would stack up if their PPP was normalized by shot clock usage, I can guarantee Melo would be in the bottom 5 if not the worst in the whole NBA.

It was based on last season. And he was rated worst not 2nd. Shows that the NBA teams don't really favor Iso wings. Since only he and Harrison Barnes are the only ones to have the usage and shots at the rate they do apparently.

Melo is a really good catch and shoot player and if that role he would excel offensively anyway. But he also views himself as a star and not just a catch and shoot role player who can also put the ball on the floor and post some. Those things should come off his catch and shoot ability as teams overplay. When Melo accepts what he is and what he isn't anymore then he can find a situation to excel and win in. Houston of course would be the spot he wants to do that in. And they prepared to cover his weaknesses with signing guys like Tucker & Moute & Black. To go with Capela & Ariza & Paul.

meloshouldgo
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8/10/2017  3:20 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:What did you find in that article that showed Melo was good at anything? Melo came second in a group of 2 for his own chosen style of play with which he has persisted no matter what. I think this approach does a lot to classify players based on their style of play, it also looks at %ge of shoot clock used. I wanted to see how people would stack up if their PPP was normalized by shot clock usage, I can guarantee Melo would be in the bottom 5 if not the worst in the whole NBA.

It was based on last season. And he was rated worst not 2nd. Shows that the NBA teams don't really favor Iso wings. Since only he and Harrison Barnes are the only ones to have the usage and shots at the rate they do apparently.

Melo is a really good catch and shoot player and if that role he would excel offensively anyway. But he also views himself as a star and not just a catch and shoot role player who can also put the ball on the floor and post some. Those things should come off his catch and shoot ability as teams overplay. When Melo accepts what he is and what he isn't anymore then he can find a situation to excel and win in. Houston of course would be the spot he wants to do that in. And they prepared to cover his weaknesses with signing guys like Tucker & Moute & Black. To go with Capela & Ariza & Paul.

Coming second in a two man race = worst.
When Melo accepts what he is, may not happen while he is still able to suit up and contribute
My point was not that he is bad, but if you factor in shot clock usage to go with his poor efficiency, he is one of the worst offensive players by the numbers if not the worst as it relates to motion offense and system basketball. All you have to do is get the data on how many seconds a player holds the ball on averages everything time he touches it and divide the PPP by that number. May need to restate seconds in minutes before doing the math to make the result easier to read.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
nixluva
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8/10/2017  3:22 PM
Thx for posting this Martin! I really enjoyed reading this guys research. It helps to really clarify things and put players in better perspective as to how they perform. I can't remember reading anything quite like this. Of course the stats are always there but applying the stats this way helped to bring it all together.

For years people have spoken about Melo being better when he goes quick, meaning not hold it and go into ISO mode. It's a choice he makes that seems to go against everything he's best at. Not that he's not a great ISO scorer but he would be so much more efficient doing less of that.

I'm looking forward to KP improving and getting more efficient. His role changing to be more of a focal point should help him as he diversifies his game. Being in the Skilled Big Man category he has so much potential. Better ball movement from our Guards in particular will only help KP to get more easy baskets near the basket or in catch n shoot looks.

newyorknewyork
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8/10/2017  4:42 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:What did you find in that article that showed Melo was good at anything? Melo came second in a group of 2 for his own chosen style of play with which he has persisted no matter what. I think this approach does a lot to classify players based on their style of play, it also looks at %ge of shoot clock used. I wanted to see how people would stack up if their PPP was normalized by shot clock usage, I can guarantee Melo would be in the bottom 5 if not the worst in the whole NBA.

It was based on last season. And he was rated worst not 2nd. Shows that the NBA teams don't really favor Iso wings. Since only he and Harrison Barnes are the only ones to have the usage and shots at the rate they do apparently.

Melo is a really good catch and shoot player and if that role he would excel offensively anyway. But he also views himself as a star and not just a catch and shoot role player who can also put the ball on the floor and post some. Those things should come off his catch and shoot ability as teams overplay. When Melo accepts what he is and what he isn't anymore then he can find a situation to excel and win in. Houston of course would be the spot he wants to do that in. And they prepared to cover his weaknesses with signing guys like Tucker & Moute & Black. To go with Capela & Ariza & Paul.

Coming second in a two man race = worst.
When Melo accepts what he is, may not happen while he is still able to suit up and contribute
My point was not that he is bad, but if you factor in shot clock usage to go with his poor efficiency, he is one of the worst offensive players by the numbers if not the worst as it relates to motion offense and system basketball. All you have to do is get the data on how many seconds a player holds the ball on averages everything time he touches it and divide the PPP by that number. May need to restate seconds in minutes before doing the math to make the result easier to read.

Yea it hit me later that he was worst in a 2 man race lol.

GustavBahler
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8/10/2017  6:10 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:What did you find in that article that showed Melo was good at anything? Melo came second in a group of 2 for his own chosen style of play with which he has persisted no matter what. I think this approach does a lot to classify players based on their style of play, it also looks at %ge of shoot clock used. I wanted to see how people would stack up if their PPP was normalized by shot clock usage, I can guarantee Melo would be in the bottom 5 if not the worst in the whole NBA.

It was based on last season. And he was rated worst not 2nd. Shows that the NBA teams don't really favor Iso wings. Since only he and Harrison Barnes are the only ones to have the usage and shots at the rate they do apparently.

Melo is a really good catch and shoot player and if that role he would excel offensively anyway. But he also views himself as a star and not just a catch and shoot role player who can also put the ball on the floor and post some. Those things should come off his catch and shoot ability as teams overplay. When Melo accepts what he is and what he isn't anymore then he can find a situation to excel and win in. Houston of course would be the spot he wants to do that in. And they prepared to cover his weaknesses with signing guys like Tucker & Moute & Black. To go with Capela & Ariza & Paul.

Not the case anymore, but Melo was for years one of the best post players in the league. I agree that he should be transitioning to Olympic Melo now, more of a catch and shoot player. But there was a time when he was a lot more than that.

The flaws in his game were also there, which kept him from being a truly elite player like a LeBron, Wade, or Durant.

newyorknewyork
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8/10/2017  6:37 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:What did you find in that article that showed Melo was good at anything? Melo came second in a group of 2 for his own chosen style of play with which he has persisted no matter what. I think this approach does a lot to classify players based on their style of play, it also looks at %ge of shoot clock used. I wanted to see how people would stack up if their PPP was normalized by shot clock usage, I can guarantee Melo would be in the bottom 5 if not the worst in the whole NBA.

It was based on last season. And he was rated worst not 2nd. Shows that the NBA teams don't really favor Iso wings. Since only he and Harrison Barnes are the only ones to have the usage and shots at the rate they do apparently.

Melo is a really good catch and shoot player and if that role he would excel offensively anyway. But he also views himself as a star and not just a catch and shoot role player who can also put the ball on the floor and post some. Those things should come off his catch and shoot ability as teams overplay. When Melo accepts what he is and what he isn't anymore then he can find a situation to excel and win in. Houston of course would be the spot he wants to do that in. And they prepared to cover his weaknesses with signing guys like Tucker & Moute & Black. To go with Capela & Ariza & Paul.

Not the case anymore, but Melo was for years one of the best post players in the league. I agree that he should be transitioning to Olympic Melo now, more of a catch and shoot player. But there was a time when he was a lot more than that.

The flaws in his game were also there, which kept him from being a truly elite player like a LeBron, Wade, or Durant.

The problem though is his finishing ability in the paint has been poor compared to his peers, later on in his career anyway. And he didn't get the calls on contact he should have. His mid range game was up their with Durant. But where his peers Durant and Lebron always killed him at was their % in the paint compared to him.

GustavBahler
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8/10/2017  7:06 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:What did you find in that article that showed Melo was good at anything? Melo came second in a group of 2 for his own chosen style of play with which he has persisted no matter what. I think this approach does a lot to classify players based on their style of play, it also looks at %ge of shoot clock used. I wanted to see how people would stack up if their PPP was normalized by shot clock usage, I can guarantee Melo would be in the bottom 5 if not the worst in the whole NBA.

It was based on last season. And he was rated worst not 2nd. Shows that the NBA teams don't really favor Iso wings. Since only he and Harrison Barnes are the only ones to have the usage and shots at the rate they do apparently.

Melo is a really good catch and shoot player and if that role he would excel offensively anyway. But he also views himself as a star and not just a catch and shoot role player who can also put the ball on the floor and post some. Those things should come off his catch and shoot ability as teams overplay. When Melo accepts what he is and what he isn't anymore then he can find a situation to excel and win in. Houston of course would be the spot he wants to do that in. And they prepared to cover his weaknesses with signing guys like Tucker & Moute & Black. To go with Capela & Ariza & Paul.

Not the case anymore, but Melo was for years one of the best post players in the league. I agree that he should be transitioning to Olympic Melo now, more of a catch and shoot player. But there was a time when he was a lot more than that.

The flaws in his game were also there, which kept him from being a truly elite player like a LeBron, Wade, or Durant.

The problem though is his finishing ability in the paint has been poor compared to his peers, later on in his career anyway. And he didn't get the calls on contact he should have. His mid range game was up their with Durant. But where his peers Durant and Lebron always killed him at was their % in the paint compared to him.

Good point about the no calls. In spite of what the numbers say, Melo was a tough cover in the paint, according to some of his peers.

meloshouldgo
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8/10/2017  11:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/10/2017  11:14 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:What did you find in that article that showed Melo was good at anything? Melo came second in a group of 2 for his own chosen style of play with which he has persisted no matter what. I think this approach does a lot to classify players based on their style of play, it also looks at %ge of shoot clock used. I wanted to see how people would stack up if their PPP was normalized by shot clock usage, I can guarantee Melo would be in the bottom 5 if not the worst in the whole NBA.

It was based on last season. And he was rated worst not 2nd. Shows that the NBA teams don't really favor Iso wings. Since only he and Harrison Barnes are the only ones to have the usage and shots at the rate they do apparently.

Melo is a really good catch and shoot player and if that role he would excel offensively anyway. But he also views himself as a star and not just a catch and shoot role player who can also put the ball on the floor and post some. Those things should come off his catch and shoot ability as teams overplay. When Melo accepts what he is and what he isn't anymore then he can find a situation to excel and win in. Houston of course would be the spot he wants to do that in. And they prepared to cover his weaknesses with signing guys like Tucker & Moute & Black. To go with Capela & Ariza & Paul.

Not the case anymore, but Melo was for years one of the best post players in the league. I agree that he should be transitioning to Olympic Melo now, more of a catch and shoot player. But there was a time when he was a lot more than that.

The flaws in his game were also there, which kept him from being a truly elite player like a LeBron, Wade, or Durant.

The problem though is his finishing ability in the paint has been poor compared to his peers, later on in his career anyway. And he didn't get the calls on contact he should have. His mid range game was up their with Durant. But where his peers Durant and Lebron always killed him at was their % in the paint compared to him.

They killed him in lots of places. LeBron and Durant always show very high on the plus minus, they're teams always play better with them on the floor. Melo hadn't been consistent in that and in recent years has been a minus player. Basically those guys make the people around them better. And then there's the whole defense thing.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
CrushAlot
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8/11/2017  11:59 AM
Great article. Thanks for posting it.
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Article from Nylon Calculus: Ranking the best and worst scorers in every offensive role

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